Making food ~ combine amount

[RandomStream]

Let's have a go at a couple of the questions raised. 

Why can't you buy a stack of 20 off the broker? 

Apart from the obvious answer, somebody only wanted 2 so left 18 on the broker, players do not put 10 stacks of a food item on the broker at a time.  There are two reasons for this:

1 Players have better things to do with their time

2 Theres no money in it - if they do.

A stack of 100 arrows sells for 25 gold regularly on my server;  very few people will pay 25 gold for two pieces of food.  Arrows are essential, food is not.  Moreover food and drink is not the best thing for what ever the consumer wants; Health or Power regen - use totems; Stats boosts - use potions.

What the provie needs is to be the sole provider of consumables that do these things, not a second rate provider of a hybrid.  Buit that requires a design philosophy change that is unlikely to happen and will annoy lots of people.

People spend hours making food and drink for all their guild mates.

Is it unkind to point out that they could suggest their guild mates make their own food and drink - or get an alt to do so?  The excuse "All my crafters are already committed" no longer holds water.  Suggest they buy another Character slot from SOE so they can have a provisioner as well

People spend hours making food and drink for their alts

A stack of food and drink lasts 100 hours, which is probably as much as a toon is online in a week (unless you just leave them logged on).  So, unless you are multi boxing, you are only looking at doing this once per week at most.  I can do a writ in 4 minutes (6 combines) so 20 combines should only be about 15 minutes at level 90.

Catin of Runnyeye

[Aurorrae]

I'm sympathetic to the alt situation - i have the crafting alt army myself, so I get it.

At the same time, I am one of those that fears an oversupply will mean an even worse dilution of prices.  We have evidence from the recent past that this will happen.  The increase in totems has lead to a direct (as in witin 48 hours) decrease in my margins.  Totems that used to sell for 15-20 g are now selling for 2.  You also see the bot crafters out in force - you know the onces with 1158 totems at 1c less than your 80.

My suggestion is a provi quest, like the alchemist distillation quest, that would allow for the making if heirloom only food in bulk.  My alt army isnt in the economy and so my ability to fee my alts a little bit faster won't effect prices at all - I wasn't buying for them anyway.  What it will do is free up my time to make guildees food or make food for the broker, rather than feeding those glutinous alts.

[djshari]

feldon30 wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Maroger wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Just stop right now. Its all been said before, nothing in this thread is new. What your about to say isn't new either. Just leave it alone, k?

You running this forum now? I didn;t know you were a moderator

I perfer to think of myself as a voice of reason.  Honestly, have you seen anything new in this thread?

The thread keeps coming up because there is a problem.

To make a stack of 20 food and 20 drink requires 20 combines. That's about 30 minutes effort when crafted at a brisk pace. To provide a week's worth of food and drink to a raid force of, let's say, 30 players, is 30x30 or 900 minutes or 15 hours with your butt strapped to the Stove.

What do 20 combines get you in other classes?

• 1 1/2 full suits of mastercrafted imbued armor
• 2 full sets of mastercrafted imbued jewelry
• 10 mastercrafted imbued weapons
• 100 totems
• 2,000 arrows

Unfortunately, you have protectionist responses that quash any creative idea to solve the problem. I've never seen a group of people so dedicated to keeping a certain Tradeskill class unpleasant, ponderous, and tedious than the Tradeskill forum. If Provisioners are going to constantly fight to keep the prices the way they are, I have a bold suggestion. Delete the class and add vendor food that is equal to tradeskilled food. I'm tired of having to sift through the broker to find 20 food and 20 drink with the stat I need (AGI) in a nice neat stack of 20. And it's clear from the professional Provisioners in this thread that they are tired of making it.

Well said!! I have a 90 provisioner and if I'm looking for make money that is the last crafter I'd go with - my time is worth much more on my other tradeskillers. I don't see how more would devalue the food at all and I don't know why anyone would rely on a provi for profit anyway.

[Meirril]

djshari wrote:

feldon30 wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Maroger wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Just stop right now. Its all been said before, nothing in this thread is new. What your about to say isn't new either. Just leave it alone, k?

You running this forum now? I didn;t know you were a moderator

I perfer to think of myself as a voice of reason.  Honestly, have you seen anything new in this thread?

The thread keeps coming up because there is a problem.

To make a stack of 20 food and 20 drink requires 20 combines. That's about 30 minutes effort when crafted at a brisk pace. To provide a week's worth of food and drink to a raid force of, let's say, 30 players, is 30x30 or 900 minutes or 15 hours with your butt strapped to the Stove.

What do 20 combines get you in other classes?

• 1 1/2 full suits of mastercrafted imbued armor
• 2 full sets of mastercrafted imbued jewelry
• 10 mastercrafted imbued weapons
• 100 totems
• 2,000 arrows

Unfortunately, you have protectionist responses that quash any creative idea to solve the problem. I've never seen a group of people so dedicated to keeping a certain Tradeskill class unpleasant, ponderous, and tedious than the Tradeskill forum. If Provisioners are going to constantly fight to keep the prices the way they are, I have a bold suggestion. Delete the class and add vendor food that is equal to tradeskilled food. I'm tired of having to sift through the broker to find 20 food and 20 drink with the stat I need (AGI) in a nice neat stack of 20. And it's clear from the professional Provisioners in this thread that they are tired of making it.

Well said!! I have a 90 provisioner and if I'm looking for make money that is the last crafter I'd go with - my time is worth much more on my other tradeskillers. I don't see how more would devalue the food at all and I don't know why anyone would rely on a provi for profit anyway.

You know, I have a 90 provisioner. I make pomagranite ambrosia and satherian tails because it takes exactly 5 combines to make 2 full stacks. I've also got some lower level toons that I don't feel like using 90 food on them. You know what I do? I buy the food for them because it isn't worth the time and effort to make it. I'd rather use the ample coin that I have made doing other things because FOOD AND DRINK ARE CHEAP.

Player made food, the best food in game, is cheap on the broker. If you don't like spending 30 minuites making it, then don't! Buy it just like I do. Buy it just like your customers do. When enough provisioners do this the prices will start to climb and one day you'll think its worth saving the money by spending the time. That is how any free market is suppose to work. Honestly? The "proffessional" provisioners complain they arn't making much. I think that just means there are too many provisioners at work, because there certainly isn't any shortage of supply.

Oh, but you can't find whole stacks for sale? Ya know, seriously if you can find 2 2-hour food and drink how much would you like to be that you'll visit a broker again before you go through another 4 hours of play time? A stack of 20 5-hour food lasts me for multiple months. It isn't like I use up the time when I'm logged out. I'm also sure if you searched food for a certain level, you could find a good canidate to narrow your search down to just one name and buy 20. Sure this takes all of an additonal 1 minuite but I'm sure its worth the extra inch of effort.

30 minuites to make 100 game hours of food and drink at 2 per combine. A full time job is 40 hours. Your talking about 2 and a half weeks of play time here. A typical raid takes 2 hours, so your talking about 50 raids! Do you know how many arrows a ranger would use for 50 raids? Or how many cure noxious potions anyone would use? Hundreds! Thousands!

If you honestly think its too hard now, then why are you wasting your time doing it? Someone else is willing to waste their time doing it for you, and all its going to cost is selling a bag of fertalizer, some random bone, and a flask of water to buy a weeks worth of food and drink. I'm sure you could farm some of this "valuable loot" in that 30 minuites your not crafting.

[LivelyHound]

djshari wrote:

feldon30 wrote:

The thread keeps coming up because there is a problem.

To make a stack of 20 food and 20 drink requires 20 combines. That's about 30 minutes effort when crafted at a brisk pace. To provide a week's worth of food and drink to a raid force of, let's say, 30 players, is 30x30 or 900 minutes or 15 hours with your butt strapped to the Stove.

This is a load of tripe. It takes you honestly 1min30secs per combine? You can do a combine in under 30 secs, you lose a little time doing recipe searches but making repeat items alleviates that a little. Going on your numbers above thats a third the time, or more like 5hours to outfit your raid. You can even speed things up further with a hotbar of recipes if you are kitting out your raidforce repeatedly.

What do 20 combines get you in other classes?

• 1 1/2 full suits of mastercrafted imbued armorwhich no one wants so there is no marker.
• 2 full sets of mastercrafted imbued jewelrywhich few people want so there is only a small market
• 10 mastercrafted imbued weaponswhich no one wants so there is no marketor 40 t9 temp adorns (20hours of play). A fifth the amount provos get.
• 100 totemswhich last half as long (50 hours) as a stack of 5hr food. Half the amount provos get.
• 2,000 arrowsas discussed already arrow usage far outpaces food and drink
• 200 potions100 hours of wis/str etc potions. The same a provo gets.
• 60 t9 sage temp adornments (30 hours of play) A third the amount provos get.

Wow talk about seeing only what you want to see. If your going to compare classes, at least on the classes that have consumables compare the consumable.

Unfortunately, you have protectionist responses that quash any creative idea to solve the problem.

No we just don't see that there is a problem.

I've never seen a group of people so dedicated to keeping a certain Tradeskill class unpleasant, ponderous, and tedious than the Tradeskill forum.

It is not the most unpleasant or ponderous or most tedious of the tradeskills. 

If Provisioners are going to constantly fight to keep the prices the way they are, I have a bold suggestion. Delete the class and add vendor food that is equal to tradeskilled food. I'm tired of having to sift through the broker to find 20 food and 20 drink with the stat I need (AGI) in a nice neat stack of 20. And it's clear from the professional Provisioners in this thread that they are tired of making it.

You are honestly telling me that you get through a 100hours of food a week (14hrs per day). If so I would recommend hitting the non auto consume button for the times you are logged in not playing. If you need that for raiding then [Removed for Content] you guys raid a lot. If you need it for solo or group...really? That 40 extra agi really making or breaking your solo play? No, you need power regen for solo and group play not the stats, and thats why there is an heirloom recipe that creates whole stacks and the pomegranate recipe giving stats at 4 combines per stack if I recall right.

The thing is there are two main concerns provos have:

1. That they have to outfit their raids with food as outlined above. Except your above example is uttery flawed. You say you have to create 20 x 2 x 30 players of f & d. Rubbish. For a 5 hour raid you need to create 1 x 2 x 24 items which is at worst (2 combine per player because everyone wants a different type of food and drink) 2 x 2 x 24 =  96 combines. which will last for two 5 hour raids or a weeks worth of raiding for most people. 96 x 30 secs = 48 mins plus a bit for recipe finding. Call it an hour, not the 15 you suggest, nor the 5, I corrected earlier to. One. For ten hours of raiding. The exception here is on the tank who will usualllly want specialty foods, so your looking at extra combines there depending on content.

This is not a provisioning problem, this is a player attitude and communication problem. If you are creating stacks for every raider each raid tell them to stop using the stuff you create for Raids for other purposes. It is unfair of them to ask you to give up your playtime for their solo/group time when they are not playing with you. If yor raid is also expecting you to create all the food and drink solo for the entire raid and you are unhappy with this 1hour of effort (rightly so) then talk to your raid leader and get him to employ some other provos or give you some other form of compensation for your time (bonus dkp or something) I repeat this is a player problem not a tradeskill problem.

The other thing you neglect here is alchemy. They have to produce clarity potions, nox cures, trauma cures, elem cures, arcane cures, str/wis/sta/agi/int potions, specialty potions such as freedom of mind, ward potions for some, poisons and im sure theres more. Even if they produce just the stat potions for the raid. That same same 2 x 5hr raid takes 24 x 2 combines or 48 combines. Now lets add in the clarity and the rest...Now sages temp adorns, 2 x 5hr raid, 24players x 20items / 3 per combine = 160 combines.Now weaponsmiths 24 x 20 / 2 per combine = 240 combines.The reason you dont see the same outcry on these is because most people dont use them, so the market is hardly there and noone is expected to bring these. The thing is these items are more beneficial than the ~40stat given by food and drink.

2. Outfitting of alts with best in class food and drink.No class should be balanced around alt armies. This is again a player problem, alts do not need best in class food and drink the majority of the time. 1 stack of best in class f & d for an alt is gonna last forever. Alt foods have been addressed via the hierloom recipe, and pomegranates and the are the only consumable class that has this bonus. Alchemist do not for example have an heirloom stack recipe for their 30 min wis recipes or clarity potions.

Well said!! I have a 90 provisioner and if I'm looking for make money that is the last crafter I'd go with - my time is worth much more on my other tradeskillers. I don't see how more would devalue the food at all and I don't know why anyone would rely on a provi for profit anyway.

The overriding comment in this thread is the lack of food and drink stacks on the broker. In other words you are missing a market where you can charge whatever you want for your product. How can you then say that it is not worth your time, when you can put whatever price you like on your time, as yours will be the only stuff available? If the food is there and its uber cheap as you hint (i.e. not worth your time to make) then er... I suggest buying it. Which is it?

All of this has been discussed before and nothign here is new, until that changes why would anyone expect the outcome to be different this time. Alts were addressed by Domino with the heirloom recipe and raids are a player not provisioner class problem.

The only new thing in this thread is stack size and peope either dont care, dont mind or are for it. Noone disagrees on increasing stack size.

[Pavahac]

 I guess since you can make every thing in under 30 sec everyone else can. I guess I must be the worst crafter in the game because my average is 45 sec. I guess we all can't have all the answers like you do. Problem solved.

[Asif]

LivelyHound wrote:

djshari wrote:

feldon30 wrote:

The thread keeps coming up because there is a problem.

To make a stack of 20 food and 20 drink requires 20 combines. That's about 30 minutes effort when crafted at a brisk pace. To provide a week's worth of food and drink to a raid force of, let's say, 30 players, is 30x30 or 900 minutes or 15 hours with your butt strapped to the Stove.

This is a load of tripe. It takes you honestly 1min30secs per combine? You can do a combine in under 30 secs, you lose a little time doing recipe searches but making repeat items alleviates that a little. Going on your numbers above thats a third the time, or more like 5hours to outfit your raid. You can even speed things up further with a hotbar of recipes if you are kitting out your raidforce repeatedly.

What do 20 combines get you in other classes?

• 1 1/2 full suits of mastercrafted imbued armorwhich no one wants so there is no marker.
• 2 full sets of mastercrafted imbued jewelrywhich few people want so there is only a small market
• 10 mastercrafted imbued weaponswhich no one wants so there is no marketor 40 t9 temp adorns (20hours of play). A fifth the amount provos get.
• 100 totemswhich last half as long (50 hours) as a stack of 5hr food. Half the amount provos get.
• 2,000 arrowsas discussed already arrow usage far outpaces food and drink
• 200 potions100 hours of wis/str etc potions. The same a provo gets.
• 60 t9 sage temp adornments (30 hours of play) A third the amount provos get.

Wow talk about seeing only what you want to see. If your going to compare classes, at least on the classes that have consumables compare the consumable.

Unfortunately, you have protectionist responses that quash any creative idea to solve the problem.

No we just don't see that there is a problem.

I've never seen a group of people so dedicated to keeping a certain Tradeskill class unpleasant, ponderous, and tedious than the Tradeskill forum.

It is not the most unpleasant or ponderous or most tedious of the tradeskills. 

If Provisioners are going to constantly fight to keep the prices the way they are, I have a bold suggestion. Delete the class and add vendor food that is equal to tradeskilled food. I'm tired of having to sift through the broker to find 20 food and 20 drink with the stat I need (AGI) in a nice neat stack of 20. And it's clear from the professional Provisioners in this thread that they are tired of making it.

You are honestly telling me that you get through a 100hours of food a week (14hrs per day). If so I would recommend hitting the non auto consume button for the times you are logged in not playing. If you need that for raiding then [Removed for Content] you guys raid a lot. If you need it for solo or group...really? That 40 extra agi really making or breaking your solo play? No, you need power regen for solo and group play not the stats, and thats why there is an heirloom recipe that creates whole stacks and the pomegranate recipe giving stats at 4 combines per stack if I recall right.

The thing is there are two main concerns provos have:

1. That they have to outfit their raids with food as outlined above. Except your above example is uttery flawed. You say you have to create 20 x 2 x 30 players of f & d. Rubbish. For a 5 hour raid you need to create 1 x 2 x 24 items which is at worst (2 combine per player because everyone wants a different type of food and drink) 2 x 2 x 24 =  96 combines. which will last for two 5 hour raids or a weeks worth of raiding for most people. 96 x 30 secs = 48 mins plus a bit for recipe finding. Call it an hour, not the 15 you suggest, nor the 5, I corrected earlier to. One. For ten hours of raiding. The exception here is on the tank who will usualllly want specialty foods, so your looking at extra combines there depending on content.

This is not a provisioning problem, this is a player attitude and communication problem. If you are creating stacks for every raider each raid tell them to stop using the stuff you create for Raids for other purposes. It is unfair of them to ask you to give up your playtime for their solo/group time when they are not playing with you. If yor raid is also expecting you to create all the food and drink solo for the entire raid and you are unhappy with this 1hour of effort (rightly so) then talk to your raid leader and get him to employ some other provos or give you some other form of compensation for your time (bonus dkp or something) I repeat this is a player problem not a tradeskill problem.

The other thing you neglect here is alchemy. They have to produce clarity potions, nox cures, trauma cures, elem cures, arcane cures, str/wis/sta/agi/int potions, specialty potions such as freedom of mind, ward potions for some, poisons and im sure theres more. Even if they produce just the stat potions for the raid. That same same 2 x 5hr raid takes 24 x 2 combines or 48 combines. Now lets add in the clarity and the rest...Now sages temp adorns, 2 x 5hr raid, 24players x 20items / 3 per combine = 160 combines.Now weaponsmiths 24 x 20 / 2 per combine = 240 combines.The reason you dont see the same outcry on these is because most people dont use them, so the market is hardly there and noone is expected to bring these. The thing is these items are more beneficial than the ~40stat given by food and drink.

2. Outfitting of alts with best in class food and drink.No class should be balanced around alt armies. This is again a player problem, alts do not need best in class food and drink the majority of the time. 1 stack of best in class f & d for an alt is gonna last forever. Alt foods have been addressed via the hierloom recipe, and pomegranates and the are the only consumable class that has this bonus. Alchemist do not for example have an heirloom stack recipe for their 30 min wis recipes or clarity potions.

Well said!! I have a 90 provisioner and if I'm looking for make money that is the last crafter I'd go with - my time is worth much more on my other tradeskillers. I don't see how more would devalue the food at all and I don't know why anyone would rely on a provi for profit anyway.

The overriding comment in this thread is the lack of food and drink stacks on the broker. In other words you are missing a market where you can charge whatever you want for your product. How can you then say that it is not worth your time, when you can put whatever price you like on your time, as yours will be the only stuff available? If the food is there and its uber cheap as you hint (i.e. not worth your time to make) then er... I suggest buying it. Which is it?

All of this has been discussed before and nothign here is new, until that changes why would anyone expect the outcome to be different this time. Alts were addressed by Domino with the heirloom recipe and raids are a player not provisioner class problem.

The only new thing in this thread is stack size and peope either dont care, dont mind or are for it. Noone disagrees on increasing stack size.

Wow i hope YOU really believe half that crap you just spilled out there.

There are lots of here including myself who have 8 or 9 90 crafters i do know what the hell is going on you guys just want to save your profit margin hell i refuse to sell anything crafter made in this game its not worth the time and effort anymore i just want to beable to make my own stuff.

Food does NOT need to be made 2 at a time that can be changed very easy.

[KerowynnKaotic]

Just thought I'd point out something ..

Everyone keeps going on and on about the 5 hour food/drink and how it lasts 100 hours if in a stack of 20.

This is true!  But, not everyone buys/uses the 5 hour food/drink.  I actually don't like to use it on any of my alts unless the stats are the best for the situation - or - I know that I am going to need the extra regen for those full 5 hours  - or - it happens to be the only thing I have left and then I'll be sure and /camp out asap to save time. And, I always have autoconsume off!

I tend to make the 40 mins to 2 hour food / drink for my alts, actually. 

• Stack of 40 min food/drink equals little over 13 hours
• Stack of 2h 15 m food/drink equals 45 hours

Still a lot in some instances sure but I'd still like to be able to make it a little faster and get on with my EQ2 Life.

[Laiina]

Like many others, I have pretty much given up making food/drink except for my self and alts - and even then I sometimes just buy it because it is so frakking tedious.

At level 90, food simply is not worth the time to make it for sale - on a time vs profit basis, I can make money faster killing trash mobs in SF, farming collectibles, making furniture, or any of a dozen other things.

Way back years ago when the game was new, a lot of these restrictions made sense - not just on provisioners, but other "mass commodity" items also.

I can see problems that might come up if those items could be made in stacks of 20 or 50 or whatever, such as flooding the market. That would be limited to a large extent by the amount of raw materials available though.

Yes, it is true that some guild harvest banks have 20,000 Amber - but that is because Amber and a few other similar items are almost useless or such low usage as to be total garbage. Looking at our own harvest box, I see 5 different level 80-89 food/drink/alchemy items with a quantity of less than 300 - and that is with the guild robo-harvesters going almost full time.

[LivelyHound]

Asif wrote:

Wow i hope YOU really believe half that crap you just spilled out there.

There are lots of here including myself who have 8 or 9 90 crafters i do know what the hell is going on you guys just want to save your profit margin hell i refuse to sell anything crafter made in this game its not worth the time and effort anymore i just want to beable to make my own stuff.

Food does NOT need to be made 2 at a time that can be changed very easy.

And potions do not need to be made 10 at atime and that can be changed very easy. They should definately be 50 at a time for potions.

Way to address the points I raised. That was a really well thought out reasoned response.

Like you I have many crafters at 90... unlike you I don't see a problem with provisioning. Sorry you do but if you want to change provisioning the best course of action is to address the points I raised and point out where I was wrong. Otherwise all Domino will see is my side of the story and think things are fine. But then you knew that and have as such attacked my arguments with concise reasoned fact based counter arguments.

Oh wait, no you attacked my personal character instead by insinuating profiteering on my behalf. Classy.

[LivelyHound]

Pavahac@Guk wrote:

 I guess since you can make every thing in under 30 sec everyone else can.

If I can, you can. 7 ticks per combine x 4 secs per tick = 28secs. You can complete combines easily in 6 ticks or 24 secs at lvl 90. Provos especially so as they have more powerful +progress arts than scholars and outfitters. Scholars are at +108 per tick fom arts, provos have +116.

It takes 1000 to complete a combine. So 1000 / (116 + 50base tick) = 6.02 ticks to complete. One succesful counter, or one crit, or one racial trait, or one anything will make a provo complete in 6 ticks. Actual tick time is about 4.1seconds I believe. In 6 ticks you use 96 durability using progress arts (-10base -6 from one art), which is not enough to lose a lvl, unless you get a fail for -50. It takes -200 to lose that top bar, so in fact it takes a crit fail to really cause any crafting problems.

Edit: On my main crafter, a scholar, I hit +184progress per tick. On a crit that goes to +243. If that toon was a provo that woud read +194 and +252. 1000/184 = 5.4 ticks. In other words most combines are 6 ticks. (184 * 4) + 243 = 979. So one crit and a succesful progress counter for +21 and its a 5 tick combine. There are I think 4 counters that give that or more as a bonus. Though I havn't checked counters since lvl 80 so I may be out of date on those.

1000/194 = 5.3 ticks In other words most comines are 6 ticks.(194 * 4) + 252 = 1028, so the provo only needs a crit to save a tick the scholar needs the bonus reaction counter to do it. I.e. provos and the other craftsmen trades get it easier than scholars and outfitters.

I guess I must be the worst crafter in the game because my average is 45 sec.

No that apparently is Feldon who I replied to at 1min30.

I guess we all can't have all the answers like you do. Problem solved.

That's why I supplied some information in my last post.

Even at 45 secs per combine Feldons assessment was way off. I'll redo my assessment of 96 combines for raiding at 45 secs and we come out with : 72 mins or an hour and a quarter, add in recipe finding time, call it an hour and a half which is far less than he said at 15 hours per week.

How about instead of being snide, you counter my arguments.

[Meirril]

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

Just thought I'd point out something ..

Everyone keeps going on and on about the 5 hour food/drink and how it lasts 100 hours if in a stack of 20.

This is true!  But, not everyone buys/uses the 5 hour food/drink.  I actually don't like to use it on any of my alts unless the stats are the best for the situation - or - I know that I am going to need the extra regen for those full 5 hours  - or - it happens to be the only thing I have left and then I'll be sure and /camp out asap to save time. And, I always have autoconsume off!

I tend to make the 40 mins to 2 hour food / drink for my alts, actually. 

• Stack of 40 min food/drink equals little over 13 hours
• Stack of 2h 15 m food/drink equals 45 hours

Still a lot in some instances sure but I'd still like to be able to make it a little faster and get on with my EQ2 Life.

That is your personal choice. Everybody talks about 5 hour food (which fyi is actually 5hr 30 min so a full stack gets 110 hours actually) because its the default choice for most people and the most efficient way to go when your talking about time spent crafting rather than materials and fuel used. Your way is more material efficient and closer to actual use for benifit. I would like to point out that by making 2h 15 food your basically doubling your time for crafting. The 40 minuite food is 1/9th of the max duration so your investing a whole lot of extra time. If you think that saving 1g 50s and a few raw resources is worth an extra minuite of your play time then it all works out for you.

Now you asking for it to be made faster seems to fly in the face of your personal choice. If you were concerned about efficency then you'd also realize that you'd save time by moving up to the 5 hour foods. By making the concious decision not to your wasting time to save a little money. Asking the developers to make this more convient for you while you can easily do something to effectively get the same result is hypocritical.

[KerowynnKaotic]

Meirril wrote:

That is your personal choice. Everybody talks about 5 hour food (which fyi is actually 5hr 30 min so a full stack gets 110 hours actually) because its the default choice for most people and the most efficient way to go when your talking about time spent crafting rather than materials and fuel used. Your way is more material efficient and closer to actual use for benifit. I would like to point out that by making 2h 15 food your basically doubling your time for crafting. The 40 minuite food is 1/9th of the max duration so your investing a whole lot of extra time. If you think that saving 1g 50s and a few raw resources is worth an extra minuite of your play time then it all works out for you.

Now you asking for it to be made faster seems to fly in the face of your personal choice. If you were concerned about efficency then you'd also realize that you'd save time by moving up to the 5 hour foods. By making the concious decision not to your wasting time to save a little money. Asking the developers to make this more convient for you while you can easily do something to effectively get the same result is hypocritical.

Hardly, I was merely pointing out that there are other timed amounts and again a straight 5 hour & 3 Minute food/drink would be wasteful to me and truthfully probably many others who seem to insist on -only- using 5 hour food/drink because it is 'best' in someone's point of view. 

5 hour & 3 minute food/drink is useful if I (or anyone) am (is) actively adventuring or crafting for those 5 hour & 3 Minutes.  So I am not doubling my production time by making the lower timed food/drink because I'd still have to make the food again in the same amount of time based on usage if not in game/rl time.  If I log on my character and eat/drink 5 hour & 3 minute food/drink and then only adventure/craft for 2 hours and go and do something where mana/health doesn't matter for 3+ hours I have just wasted those 3 hours and 3 mins remaining on that food/drink. So I didn't get the benefit for the full 5 hours & 3 minutes in the first place.

And, frankly, every single request in game is due to someone's discomfort with the game in some way or another.  So don't get up on your high horse because I stand on one side of the arguement and you apparently stand on the other. 

And, I am most definetly not being a hypocrite.  I have been wanting the Provisioners to make more than (2) at a time for a very long time and I have never seen any reason not to ask for legitimate requests from our Devs.  If we don't ask, they'll never know we want something.  And, the more something is requested, the more they know we really want it. But, I won't say I haven't disagreed with others in their suggestions along the way, that would be hypocrital.  But, I have always -tried- to remain neutral about the suggestion but I can't say I have always succeed, again, that would be hypocrisy.  

So .. were you hoping by calling me names that you'll get this thread closed or were going for a different word?

[Tigress]

Sigrdrifa@Lucan DLere wrote:

I'd love an Advanced Provisioner's Cookbooks series that would give me the high end 5-hour foods craftable in stacks of 20, but take tons of fuel and be much harder to craft, honestly.

not me! its already in stacks of 20 in your bag, unless you mean make combines of 20 bc we only make 2 at a time and that would be wonderful.  i would *not* love the cost of fuel to go up, the higher you level, the higher the fuel and unless youve got a wealthy level 90 adventurer, those fuel costs hurt.  so, no, pls dont raise the fuel!

regarding what others have said:  YES!  please lets make more than 2 at a time.  why cant we make 20 foods with each fully completed recipe?  that would be nice. 

p.s.  i also no longer sell my food/drink on the broker.  it isnt worth it.  i do, however, make level appropriate food for all the alts and if a guildmate asks, i'll make them a stack. 

[Pavahac]

 You still don't get it. What a snobish attitude. You can come up with all the math you want but the experience and the

 way people play does not calculate into your math. You also forgot about the one that fights you and can take over a

 minute to make. To sit there and button mash doing the same recipe over and over for very little profit is tedious.

[Tylia]

I am on the side that agrees that only making 2 items per combine is very tedious, time consuming, and boring when it comes to making full stacks of food/drink.  My provy has the joyous job of keeping our guild food bank full of 70, 80, and 90 food/drink for guild members.  I only make the 5 hour 3 min food because it lasts the longest and I don't have to restock the bank as often.  I also only make stacks of 10 because 5 times through each recipe is bearable, 10 times is not.  Honestly, I wish my provy would learn to double (or triple) her recipes because only making 2 servings at a time when their is a crowd to feed is so annoying!

[Terron]

If you don't enjoy provisioning don't do it.

It's not as if food or drink is needed in game, except for raiding.

It's not as if it is expensive to buy food or drink from the broker.

It's not as if there are a shortage of people making food and drink for sale.

Food and drink are cheap of the broker - means that there more than sufficient available - which means there is no need to make it even easier to make.

[LivelyHound]

Pavahac@Guk wrote:

 You still don't get it. What a snobish attitude. You can come up with all the math you want but the experience and the

 way people play does not calculate into your math. You also forgot about the one that fights you and can take over a

 minute to make. To sit there and button mash doing the same recipe over and over for very little profit is tedious.

So in other words you cant disprove or counter any of my points.

It may come across as snobbish, or maybe that just being informed. Either way it doesn't negate the facts.

IF you are in it for profit according to your last comment, then asking for increased quantity per combine will destroy what little profit there is in tradeskilling as a provisioner.

If you really meant what you said about experience then you would be arguing for potion combines to be more than 10 a go and weaponsmiths adorns to be more than 2 a go and so on... as those crafts are far worse off as I already pointed out, but no you are only looking at provisioning. To your point on sitting there on one recipe being tedious. The difference between on recipe and another is text and an icon. The action of the combine is the same, the experience is almost identical. The tedium comes from making many combines, whether you be lvling or making broker items, or writs, or food. Provos at least get the chance to make their combines quicker than scholars and outfitters, saving them time in the long run on the same number of combines.

As to your initial comment of: "[i] just don't get it". Really? I'm fairly sure I get it, people are bored by making food for others and their alts, they would rather be adventuring and doing 10 combines instead of 1 which is just too much! See my inital post on that. It's a people thing, not a problem with the tradeskill. If that's you then go adventure and what terron just said. Of course maybe I don't get it, and if that is the case instead of taking attitude with it. Explain it. Then you might get your point across and move the discussion forward.

As to the "one combine that fights you taking over a minute", I didn't forget them, they just happen so rarely at max level as to be inconsequential and not worth mentioning. I would suggest if you are having a lot of combines to do, i.e. provisioning raid force food, and find this happens to you a lot, that you possibly invest a very little time to get the basic crafting gear. It is there and was added for a reason. With a modicum of gear no combine will ever fight you for over a minute. With all the gear you would be hard pushed to make an 8 tick combine taking you over 30secs. Furthermore, even if you are experiencing those, the number that you come across can't be more than 1 in 40 or 50. And if they really bother you take brell as a god, and just zap them to completion.

Of course I am / have been talking about max lvl, the lower levels sure combines will occasionally fight you because your base tick is more important than your arts are, but at high levels the inverse is true and the combine arts are far more important than the base ticks so if the tick fails or not, it really doesnt slow you down that much, if at all. Many combines even with a fail tick will complete in the exact same number of ticks.

A little in-depth info for anyone left reading: Rush writs.

Faster ever 5mins54secs left.Average @ max lvl : 5mins 48ish.

Work it out over the 6 combines and the combines are taking 26 - 28 secs or so. That's before you take out the 20 secs searching for recipes. Much as I described above.

A 1 minute combine is 15 ticks. Base success chance on a tick is around 65%, fails 25%, crits 10%, crit fail less than half of 1 percent. With a few pieces of gear success goes to over 80%. At 20% fail rate you have 3 ticks in 15 fail. Not to mention that if you succesfully counter an event you wont ever have a fail tick unless its a crit fail. These rates were worked out on max level combines when 80 was the max.

Incidentally, I have all the gear and if I put it on I have a 95% success rate without pushing any buttons (excluding active counter ticks). I doubt that can be got higher as I imagine the fail 5% is built in due to diminished returns on gear. However, you can artificially inflate it over that point by succesful counters turning fails into successes. The only one that seems constant is crit fail as impossibly rare, though like buses two always come at once

It is possible currently to get around 24% bonus to success and around 10% bonus to crit success and over +100skill.

[Laenai]

Advanced provisioner books that let you make the same food as the regular books, but at 5-10 per stack.

Boom. Done.

[Rijacki]

Karimonster wrote:

Advanced provisioner books that let you make the same food as the regular books, but at 5-10 per stack.

Boom. Done.

Requiring a rare like other classes require? or an imbuing material? or just additional components and fuel?

[Jaremai]

Rijacki wrote:

Karimonster wrote:

Advanced provisioner books that let you make the same food as the regular books, but at 5-10 per stack.

Boom. Done.

Requiring a rare like other classes require? or an imbuing material? or just additional components and fuel?

Alchemy dusts.

[Kharl]

I have a crafter in each profession.  (Thank Marr for expanded character slots).  Prov is by far the worst due to low number of product and the low number of recipes.  Its torture to level these guys up.  I buy food from the festivals cause I dont want to spend 10 hrs making food.  I would also like a higher stacking limit as well.  50 would be acceptable.