Making food ~ combine amount

[Mistal]

I am certain that this has been brought up probably many times before but as I couldn't see it in the first few pages of posts I am posting as a new topic. 

Are there any plans to up the number of items made per combine on provisioning? We are seeing increases in stacks of totems, arrows, potions and the like but still my little provie has to sit there making 2 at a time. 

I don't think 5 per combine is an unreasonable amount perhaps if this was also done with an increase to the amount that can stack... up to say 50. It just seems to me that other crafts are being made more "friendly" this added to the fact that there are no advanced provie books, only a few faction recipes and provisioner always seems to get left out.

Many thanks

Mistal  

[Jaremai]

You're right, this has been brought up many, many times.

There is a small set of vocal people that b&m about how upping the quantity would cut into their precious profit margins when selling food.  Their arguement is "omg it's already selling close to the cost of fuel!  If you raise quantity then we'll make EVEN LESS!!"  Unfortunately, the tradeskill dev (Domino) buys that fluff and won't listen to the rest of us that say provisioning is torture.

The argument itself is total crap anyway.  If they upped the output, nothing would change in the economy because nobody short of the village idiot is going to sell for "less than the cost of fuel" so the prices won't change, only the stock and the time it takes to make that stock.

Everytime a guildmate asks me for a food order, or everytime I look at my character page and see that I'm running low on it, I cringe.  20 combines for a stack of food & drink is rediculous.  That's ~12-15 minutes per character - and for some people they'll blow through it in a week.

Raising it to 5 would be a godsend.  10 would be a miracle.  Both Alchemists and Woodworkers got their tedium reduced, but not Provisioners.  End the torture.  Please.

[Jaremai]

Oh and the other rocking-chair response:  "Be happy that you can make 2.. back in my day we could only make 1.. and we liked it!"

Yeh, well, welcome to 2010.  The game has evolved into lazymode.  It's time Provisioning caught up.

And FYI, rocking-chair, my provisioner started on day 1, so I know the uphill walk to school barefoot first-hand.  It's true when it went to 2 yield I was overjoyed.  Enough time has passed and enough other changes have gone in that it's now time to put down the tapioca and let go of this tired rhetoric.

[Zaldor]

I hope someday to be able to make a full dining room set in one combine, or even to be able to outfit a bedroom with one click.  

It is so tedious to play this game sometimes.

Heck, why do I need to keep hitting buttons when fighting a green mob when it is obvious that I am going to kill it?  Just let me one-shot it and move on.

[Starack]

Yup seen it brought up before.

I agree it should be changed to more like 20 or 100 a combine, up the mats needed for the actual bulk combine. I have a 90 provie and I loathe making food and drink for my own legion of toons I never buy from the broker, I help out guildies if they ask nice, but soe needs to find another way for people to waste their time and have fun. Maybe make it give no xp for a bulk combine if you worried about power dinging levels or something.

Further more stack sizes of food and drink should be upped from 20 to 200 especially in the equipped slot, hell I would even advocate special food and drink bags that can store several hundred to several thousand food and drink each, I use the five hour stuff mostly, the special shorter term stuff I have no patience to make in the sort of quantities to make them a pleasure to use. I burn through 100 hrs of food and drink in just over a week and it annoys me to sit there and do combines when I'd rather be out killing stuff with friends. I'd prefer to be able to adventure for a couple of months without need to do a food and drink top up.

It would seem pointless administative overhead built into the game system is the preferred method of eating up our time rather than doing something interactive and fun. For the few people that love mircomanagement leave the option in to do it the hard way.

[Seidhkona]

I'd love an Advanced Provisioner's Cookbooks series that would give me the high end 5-hour foods craftable in stacks of 20, but take tons of fuel and be much harder to craft, honestly.

[Rijacki]

Jaremai@Guk wrote:

[snip]

Everytime a guildmate asks me for a food order, or everytime I look at my character page and see that I'm running low on it, I cringe.  20 combines for a stack of food & drink is rediculous.  That's ~12-15 minutes per character - and for some people they'll blow through it in a week.

Raising it to 5 would be a godsend.  10 would be a miracle.  Both Alchemists and Woodworkers got their tedium reduced, but not Provisioners.  End the torture.  Please.

First, when did Alchemists get any tedium reduced? Alchemists have had tedium -added- if you think about the process of converting lower level dusts to higher levels. We had the per combine output of potions/poisons actually -lowered- when the tradeskill process was changed in LU20-something. Woodworkers are the ONLY class that has had an increase per combine for any item, first for arrows and then for totems (counting by dose of the former totems to the current #).

Second, as an alchemist, 20 combines for a stack of potions that can be used in ONE day (let alone a week) is ridiculous. Potions with a minor 'buff' that last for 15 mins or even 30 mins are ludicrous. Potions that last for 2mins or less and can't be reused for 15 minutes are crazy. Poisons that are barely a blip on the DPS parse are worthless. Poisons and potions that cost more in the fuels to make them than comparable NPC sold potions and poisons cost outright is horendeous. The fact alchemy has not gotten any of its 'missing' recipes (many of the product lines don't start until level 50+) added back in and hasn't even been on the radar for 'improvements' while every other crafting class has had lower level recipes filled in, recipes added to fill them out, etc.... As an alchemist, I'd love to make full stacks in 2 combines, definately.

Basically, if you want to use a class an example of how provisioners are so downtrodden, don't use Alchemy. Provisioner has it "easy" comparably AND has gotten developer "love".

BTW, when recipes were added in to make commisionalble stacks per combine of heirloom basic food/drink (for alts or guildmates), there were great complaints about it not being "good enough" since it couldn't be sold on the broker and didn't have stats or effects.

[Maroger]

Starack wrote:

Yup seen it brought up before.

I agree it should be changed to more like 20 or 100 a combine, up the mats needed for the actual bulk combine. I have a 90 provie and I loathe making food and drink for my own legion of toons I never buy from the broker, I help out guildies if they ask nice, but soe needs to find another way for people to waste their time and have fun. Maybe make it give no xp for a bulk combine if you worried about power dinging levels or something.

Further more stack sizes of food and drink should be upped from 20 to 200 especially in the equipped slot, hell I would even advocate special food and drink bags that can store several hundred to several thousand food and drink each, I use the five hour stuff mostly, the special shorter term stuff I have no patience to make in the sort of quantities to make them a pleasure to use. I burn through 100 hrs of food and drink in just over a week and it annoys me to sit there and do combines when I'd rather be out killing stuff with friends. I'd prefer to be able to adventure for a couple of months without need to do a food and drink top up.

It would seem pointless administative overhead built into the game system is the preferred method of eating up our time rather than doing something interactive and fun. For the few people that love mircomanagement leave the option in to do it the hard way.

I agree 100% - you can buy some recipes in JW ( I foget the dungeon name) that allows you make specific recipes in quantities of 20 for a level 90 -- But the recipes mostly allow speeded up regen and none give stat boosts. I wish they would up the quantity or give us a quest for an item which would allow increased quantities.

[Whilhelmina]

Rijacki wrote:

First, when did Alchemists get any tedium reduced? Alchemists have had tedium -added- if you think about the process of converting lower level dusts to higher levels. We had the per combine output of potions/poisons actually -lowered- when the tradeskill process was changed in LU20-something. Woodworkers are the ONLY class that has had an increase per combine for any item, first for arrows and then for totems (counting by dose of the former totems to the current #).

Second, as an alchemist, 20 combines for a stack of potions that can be used in ONE day (let alone a week) is ridiculous. Potions with a minor 'buff' that last for 15 mins or even 30 mins are ludicrous. Potions that last for 2mins or less and can't be reused for 15 minutes are crazy. Poisons that are barely a blip on the DPS parse are worthless. Poisons and potions that cost more in the fuels to make them than comparable NPC sold potions and poisons cost outright is horendeous. The fact alchemy has not gotten any of its 'missing' recipes (many of the product lines don't start until level 50+) added back in and hasn't even been on the radar for 'improvements' while every other crafting class has had lower level recipes filled in, recipes added to fill them out, etc.... As an alchemist, I'd love to make full stacks in 2 combines, definately.

Basically, if you want to use a class an example of how provisioners are so downtrodden, don't use Alchemy. Provisioner has it "easy" comparably AND has gotten developer "love".

BTW, when recipes were added in to make commisionalble stacks per combine of heirloom basic food/drink (for alts or guildmates), there were great complaints about it not being "good enough" since it couldn't be sold on the broker and didn't have stats or effects.

^ what she said

[Ragnaphore]

Provy's combines are in line with the other consumables.

Provy : 2 combines : 10h of food and drink.

Alchy : 2 combines : 10h of stats potions but far less for poisons.

Woodworker : 2 combines : well, that changes a lot depending on playstyles, I would say on average 10h for most bow/throwing users - and less than 1 hour for rangers, but that's another problem.

That said, I wouldn't mind if food/drink could stack for more than 20.

[RandomWalk]

My woodworker made 4,000 arrows for my troubador this morning - 40 combines to fill her quiver.  The trouby has already used 1,000 of them in about 3 hours of adventuring in instances - ok it is due to her playstyle and the group composition.  Today her arrow consumption was less than usual as we had additional dps in our group.  I spend far more time making arrows than food and drink for my army of alts. 

I agree for fighters 2 combines of ammo will last well but scouts using ranged attacks really eat up the ammo.

I have a provvie, woodie and alchie and each of them has an element of tedium.  I don't wish to see an increase in the number of items a provvie produces as I think they are in line with the other consumables. 

However I would like to see larger stacks of food and drink.

[Meirril]

Just stop right now. Its all been said before, nothing in this thread is new. What your about to say isn't new either. Just leave it alone, k?

[Maroger]

Meirril wrote:

Just stop right now. Its all been said before, nothing in this thread is new. What your about to say isn't new either. Just leave it alone, k?

You running this forum now? I didn;t know you were a moderator

[Asif]

Meirril wrote:

Just stop right now. Its all been said before, nothing in this thread is new. What your about to say isn't new either. Just leave it alone, k?

Why ?

I think it is about time for food to made more than 2 at a time it is getting old having to make it for toons all the time.

So keep it up , k ?

[Seiffil]

Asif wrote:

Why ?

I think it is about time for food to made more than 2 at a time it is getting old having to make it for toons all the time.

So keep it up , k ?

look at Aerial's post above.  You can make 1 combine and get 2 food that can last for 10 hours.  A woodworker can make 2 combines, and depending on how much that player uses  their range attacks, they might be out in an hour or less.  An alchemist can make 2 combines for a cure potion and you can go through those easily in 2 hours. 

Ask for the ability for larger stacks, fine, that's not an issue.  When you compare how long your food and drink last vs how quickly the other consumables can be consumed, it's not really needed.

[Rijacki]

Seiffil@Permafrost wrote:

Ask for the ability for larger stacks, fine, that's not an issue.  When you compare how long your food and drink last vs how quickly the other consumables can be consumed, it's not really needed.

And every comparison is wildly inaccurate (which is what I was trying to point out in my first post in this thread).

[feldon30]

Why does this topic keep coming up? Because it's not just a crafter issue. It's a consumer issue. How often do I find a stack of 20 of my preferred food or drink? Try never. The broker is littered with stacks of 2 or 4 of each item, so I end up with 2-3 diff foods and drinks just because that's the most I can stock up on. I would not mind if provisioners could craft one cycle of food and drink and then request multiples to be made and as long as their character doesn't move, they'd automatically make 2 more food or drink every 30 minutes until stopped. This wouldn't be competition to anyone who is serious about loading up the market with food and drink.

[Odys]

I currently prefer to buy my food rather than to use my 90 provisionner. Once a week i try to feed a bit my guild but it's impossible and a big waste of time.

I m not that sure that 5 will be enough, 10 would for sure be my number.

[Katz]

This topic has come up many times.  I've not seen thread after thread asking for alchemists and woodworkers etc to be able to make larger stacks.   I would infer that provisioners find stacks of 2 more of a problem than alchemists and woodworkers find their stacks.

All I can say is, I have a level 90 provisioner and she only makes stacks of 20 food and drink for my main.  The alts rairly get any food and drink at all. Perhaps thats why they look so thin and thirsty. 

When she leveled from 80 to 90, she sold all the combines on the broker.  She made good money from it but that wasn't enough motivation to make any more. 

Whatever the arguments against increasing the stacks are, the reality is we are facing a food shortage.  Its sad really.  Provisioners in the guild are asking other provisioners to make their food.  One tricked me into it the other day....I had made 10 then I said ...wait...don't you have a master provisioner!?   He said ....well.....yeah ...but I would have to alt to it to make food.    The lengths we are going to!  Just to stay away from that stove! 

Free the cooks! Free the cooks!

[Rijacki]

Katz wrote:

This topic has come up many times.  I've not seen thread after thread asking for alchemists and woodworkers etc to be able to make larger stacks.   I would infer that provisioners find stacks of 2 more of a problem than alchemists and woodworkers find their stacks.

All I can say is, I have a level 90 provisioner and she only makes stacks of 20 food and drink for my main.  The alts rairly get any food and drink at all. Perhaps thats why they look so thin and thirsty. 

When she leveled from 80 to 90, she sold all the combines on the broker.  She made good money from it but that wasn't enough motivation to make any more. 

Whatever the arguments against increasing the stacks are, the reality is we are facing a food shortage.  Its sad really.  Provisioners in the guild are asking other provisioners to make their food.  One tricked me into it the other day....I had made 10 then I said ...wait...don't you have a master provisioner!?   He said ....well.....yeah ...but I would have to alt to it to make food.    The lengths we are going to!  Just to stay away from that stove! 

Free the cooks! Free the cooks!

Each time the topic is posted, alchemists and woodworkers are used as examples of why the number per combine should be increased. THAT is what is inaccurate. Leave comparisons to other crafting classes out of the picture if you don't really know how many combines per stack they make or how long their products last, even at max duration.

But... more food and drink per combine was added in for some special recipes. Basic food and drink, full stack per combine, heirloom but could be commissioned. What was the reception to those recipes? Even though they fulfilled each of the requirements asked for by these types of threads (making -basic- food and drink for my alts, making -basic- food and drink for guild members; could require more components to make), they were met with a roar of dissastisfaction. Oh noes, it wasn't the best possible food/drink. It only provided regen.Oh noes, it required more harvests and fuel than making a stack of similar food/drink. Oh noes, the tradable recipe was sold on an NPC in a heroic dungeon. Oh noes, the stacks couldn't be put on the broker, you could trade it between alts on the same account or commission it, but you couldn't sell it.

Personally, I'd like to see more recipes added for full stack per combine of -basic- food/drink and for those to be heirloom but commissionable. I think it would be a great thing to have as a faction bought recipe. I think it should have been the provie recipes available from the faction sellers who have the advanced books and/or special books. I do think provies are shorted by not having any "advanced" recipe books and get shorted most of the time when there are special recipes sold by high faction (like from the Hua'mein).

I don't, however, think there is any 'need' for provies to have recipes which make fully tradable stack per combine food/drink because that actually would destroy the broker market for provies. It would be the bots, as much as the regular players, that would absolutely love to have stack per combine recipes.

[Eileah]

Rijacki wrote:

BTW, when recipes were added in to make commisionalble stacks per combine of heirloom basic food/drink (for alts or guildmates), there were great complaints about it not being "good enough" since it couldn't be sold on the broker and didn't have stats or effects.

Show me where people complained about the heirloom food and drink because it wasn't good enough to sell on the broker? What IDIOT thinks they could sell heirloom food and drink on the broker? The heirloom recipes cannot be commissioned btw.

The heirloom food and drink is crap, I want heirloom, I want to make GOOD recipes heirloom so I can give it to my alts, I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to worry about the broker when the subject is heirloom foods and drinks.

Just give me the mechanic to make any recipe in a stack that is heirloom and I will be happy, I don't care about the broker and those that do shouldn't care about me and my alts.

[KerowynnKaotic]

(4) per combine.  I've always wanted it to be (4) per combine assuming a Pristine creation. 

(1) for 1st bar, (2) for 2nd, (3) for 3rd and (4) for 4th bar/pristine. 

And, Yes, I'd like the items produced to STACK up to 50 (min) - 100 (max). 

(4) per pristine combine wouldn't be as game breaking as (5) or (10) per combine. 

At current (20) stack that would be (5) combines for (1) stack. Making it half as tedious as the current (10) combines per stack, which is why there are so many mini stacks on the broker.

Though, for the (4) per combine I would like to see an increase in the Raws used & maybe a bit extra fuel .. or fuel prices could be changed to be same as the rest of the fuel prices and current fuel usage amounts can stay same.

But, a definite increase in the raws, especially, in the more common drop raws.  exp: fish, meat pre-T8, veggies & teas.

[Rijacki]

Eileah wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

BTW, when recipes were added in to make commisionalble stacks per combine of heirloom basic food/drink (for alts or guildmates), there were great complaints about it not being "good enough" since it couldn't be sold on the broker and didn't have stats or effects.

Show me where people complained about the heirloom food and drink because it wasn't good enough to sell on the broker? What IDIOT thinks they could sell heirloom food and drink on the broker? The heirloom recipes cannot be commissioned btw.

The heirloom food and drink is crap, I want heirloom, I want to make GOOD recipes heirloom so I can give it to my alts, I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to worry about the broker when the subject is heirloom foods and drinks.

Just give me the mechanic to make any recipe in a stack that is heirloom and I will be happy, I don't care about the broker and those that do shouldn't care about me and my alts.

The complaint was they couldn't be sold on the broker -because- they're heirloom not that you can't put heirloom on the broker. It was, though, only one of the complaints. A- they couldn't be sold on the broker (because they're heirloom) AND B - not good enough 'cause they didn't have stats and were just -basic- food/drink.

[Meirril]

Eileah wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

BTW, when recipes were added in to make commisionalble stacks per combine of heirloom basic food/drink (for alts or guildmates), there were great complaints about it not being "good enough" since it couldn't be sold on the broker and didn't have stats or effects.

Show me where people complained about the heirloom food and drink because it wasn't good enough to sell on the broker? What IDIOT thinks they could sell heirloom food and drink on the broker? The heirloom recipes cannot be commissioned btw.

The heirloom food and drink is crap, I want heirloom, I want to make GOOD recipes heirloom so I can give it to my alts, I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to worry about the broker when the subject is heirloom foods and drinks.

Just give me the mechanic to make any recipe in a stack that is heirloom and I will be happy, I don't care about the broker and those that do shouldn't care about me and my alts.

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=452986

Without the study of history we are surely doomed to repeat it.

[Meirril]

Maroger wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Just stop right now. Its all been said before, nothing in this thread is new. What your about to say isn't new either. Just leave it alone, k?

You running this forum now? I didn;t know you were a moderator

I perfer to think of myself as a voice of reason.  Honestly, have you seen anything new in this thread?

[Meirril]

Oh what the heck, lets post something new in this thread. Lets introduce rare recipes that make 1 stack of "super food" for each archatype. Each food gives 2 stats, stamina and the primary for each archatype. Each food lasts for 5 hours so the stack lasts for 100 hours of game play.

Now for the pain. Each combine requires a combination of an entire stack of two different fish and meats for the tier for the food, or fruit and veggies for the drink. Each combine requires 20 material for the tier. Each combine requires a rare root for drinks, and a rare pelt for meat dishes. Yes, that's right provisioners would need rares. Oh, and each combine should use an entire stack of fuel.

So for tier 9 food you'd be spending about 13p in raw materials if you lived on AB. At this rate, who would care if its tradeable? Tailors should probably scream bloody murder because their rare materials cost is going to go up but these rares are the cheap ones anyways right?

Or we could fix this and just make them use hard metals for no apparent reason. /shrug

Either way any such recipe should be so horribly expensive to produce that making 10 combines vs 1 should be an attractive option. And at these prices, who would care that you can broker the stuff?

[feldon30]

Meirril wrote:

Maroger wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Just stop right now. Its all been said before, nothing in this thread is new. What your about to say isn't new either. Just leave it alone, k?

You running this forum now? I didn;t know you were a moderator

I perfer to think of myself as a voice of reason.  Honestly, have you seen anything new in this thread?

The thread keeps coming up because there is a problem.

To make a stack of 20 food and 20 drink requires 20 combines. That's about 30 minutes effort when crafted at a brisk pace. To provide a week's worth of food and drink to a raid force of, let's say, 30 players, is 30x30 or 900 minutes or 15 hours with your butt strapped to the Stove.

What do 20 combines get you in other classes?

• 1 1/2 full suits of mastercrafted imbued armor
• 2 full sets of mastercrafted imbued jewelry
• 10 mastercrafted imbued weapons
• 100 totems
• 2,000 arrows

Unfortunately, you have protectionist responses that quash any creative idea to solve the problem. I've never seen a group of people so dedicated to keeping a certain Tradeskill class unpleasant, ponderous, and tedious than the Tradeskill forum. If Provisioners are going to constantly fight to keep the prices the way they are, I have a bold suggestion. Delete the class and add vendor food that is equal to tradeskilled food. I'm tired of having to sift through the broker to find 20 food and 20 drink with the stat I need (AGI) in a nice neat stack of 20. And it's clear from the professional Provisioners in this thread that they are tired of making it.

[Jaremai]

The comparisons to making totems, potions, poisons, etc. by game time is rather rediculous, imo.

Everyone uses food/drink, 24x7 that they play - unless they specifically turn off autoconsume.  I would place money that the vast majority of people do not turn off their consumption while they're milling about.

Not everyone uses potions/poisons.  Not everyone uses arrows.  Those are specialist scenarios.

Food is universal.  Everyone needs it.  It's not a scout thing (poisons), it's not a ranger thing (arrows), it's an everyone thing.  Punishing the creators by yielding 2 at a time at this point in the game is not fun.

I'm to the point of agreeing with Feldon since the "community" is so hard-headed to disallow a small change.  Eliminate the Provisioner class and have chef NPCs that sell this stuff at fair value (75g a stack @ 90).

[Pavahac]

 I also have a 90 provi and dread the thought of having to craft food and drink. I put 2 stacks of it on the broker once a month or so because its so tedius and a grind. 4 per would be a little better and maybe i would do it more.

[DrkVsr]

Jaremai@Guk wrote:

Food is universal. Yes

Everyone needs it. Subjective, not everyone needs it, just some want it

This is not EQ1 where you could die if you didn't eat or drink (or even Gauntlet "Blue Wizard needs food, badly!!!")

Ah made a prov just to ensure mah characters are fully stocked when they need it, but o be honest, can't remember when ah last consumed any food/drinks in the game, and ah only make the 5hour stuff anyway, ah suppose if anyone asked personally for a particular type of food/drink ah would make it in the quantity they required and only ask for the price of the fuel and maybe a tip (if they felt like it) but mah main prov is only late 20's and secondary isn't actually a prov yet

Ah'm one of the very minority who enjoys crafting (heck, ah enjoyed it when you still had to make WORTS) but haven't made food in ages so maybe ah will have to do that again just to see if it really is as tiresome as people are making it out to be