sk's...

[Nakash]

Rahatmattata wrote:

Levatino wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

"people just complain cause an SK is doing better than them."

People just defend crusaders because they play one.

I think it's more like people started to play a guardian cause it was the flavor of the month, warriorstyle but then when TSO came saw that the crusader was fixed and got jealous and saw crusaders even replacing them as MT..

If people just played guards cuz it was FotM, they would be playing crusaders now.... on the forums, telling everyone tank balance is better than it has ever been.

People who switch to a class that is fotm will never know what they miss when trying to master a class.Spec against the things where you think your class dosnt does the best. This can be done mostly by equip.There is gear to spec against nearly any flaw a class can have. Find it, check it out, or spend your time whining on the forums.

1. Tank balance was never closer to equal then now. Balancing things out can happen through little nerfs and buffs. Nerfing a class to death like some people cry out here can and will not.2. Names of people who rush in every thread to cry nerf havoc sk dosn't vary really. Its getting odd, and it dosnt gets more important through this.3. Some people will never stop whining until they are OP.

Have you ever thought about playing as a team with a other tank class instead of seeing them as opponents?I think you be astonished how good thinks work out.

[Landiin]

Azzaroth@Valor wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

Levatino wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

"people just complain cause an SK is doing better than them."

People just defend crusaders because they play one.

I think it's more like people started to play a guardian cause it was the flavor of the month, warriorstyle but then when TSO came saw that the crusader was fixed and got jealous and saw crusaders even replacing them as MT..

If people just played guards cuz it was FotM, they would be playing crusaders now.... on the forums, telling everyone tank balance is better than it has ever been.

People who switch to a class that is fotm will never know what they miss when trying to master a class.Spec against the things where you think your class dosnt does the best. This can be done mostly by equip.There is gear to spec against nearly any flaw a class can have. Find it, check it out, or spend your time whining on the forums.

1. Tank balance was never closer to equal then now if they are end game geared. Balancing things out can happen through little nerfs and buffs. Nerfing a class to death like some people cry out here can and will not.2. Names of people who rush in every thread to cry nerf havoc sk dosn't vary really. Its getting odd, and it dosnt gets more important through this.3. Some people will never stop whining until they are OP.

Have you ever thought about playing as a team with a other tank class instead of seeing them as opponents?I think you be astonished how good thinks work out.

There fixed it for you.

[RafaelSmith]

Azzaroth@Valor wrote:

Balancing things out can happen through little nerfs and buffs. Nerfing a class to death like some people cry out here can and will not.

Neither does overbuffing a class.

But you are correct ...we dont need massive nerfs or buffs now....what we need is tweaks....SK survivability it out of proportion to its DPS while tanking and needs to be toned down.  Its the only solution.  Buffing other fighter DPS/Aggro is not the answer.   SKs should be DPS monsters....but they should be much harder to keep up than they currently are.  Also AEs  need to scale down depending on encounter size so that a SK struggles on a single target as much as a Guard struggles on AEs but shines on AE....then the whole ST -vs- AE tank distinction might make sense cause currently it doesnt since AE tanks have as good or better control over singles as a ST tank does.

Its only in raids and then only select encounters where tanks working together matters.  And once fights have been mastered its often more optimal to use a Brigand for those fights that have specific requirements for fighter class.

Running heroic zones with 2 fighters is about as non-optimal as you can possibly get.

There has never been a class who's pupulation has skyrocketed more due to being FOTM than current SK.

[Bruener]

Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:

Azzaroth@Valor wrote:

Balancing things out can happen through little nerfs and buffs. Nerfing a class to death like some people cry out here can and will not.

Neither does overbuffing a class.

But you are correct ...we dont need massive nerfs or buffs now....what we need is tweaks....SK survivability it out of proportion to its DPS while tanking and needs to be toned down.  Its the only solution.  Buffing other fighter DPS/Aggro is not the answer.   SKs should be DPS monsters....but they should be much harder to keep up than they currently are.  Also AEs  need to scale down depending on encounter size so that a SK struggles on a single target as much as a Guard struggles on AEs but shines on AE....then the whole ST -vs- AE tank distinction might make sense cause currently it doesnt since AE tanks have as good or better control over singles as a ST tank does.

Its only in raids and then only select encounters where tanks working together matters.  And once fights have been mastered its often more optimal to use a Brigand for those fights that have specific requirements for fighter class.

Running heroic zones with 2 fighters is about as non-optimal as you can possibly get.

There has never been a class who's pupulation has skyrocketed more due to being FOTM than current SK.

SKs already take more damage than the other 3 plate tanks....mainly due to less survivability abilities and the ones they have are on the longer end of the recast times.  Also Paladins and Bezerkers DPS just as much as SKs.  You nerf SK survivability more and it just means bringing in more Zerkers/Paladins and its not like they are hurting for spots.  Very few guilds are replacing their MTs from Guards, but the few that are seem to all be going with Paladin...wow I wonder why that is.  Probably because they take less damage and are kings of agro.

Again give Guards a lil more in heroic, if it keeps you guys from complaining and completely messing up balance at the raid level.  I mean I guess the fact that you can easily tank every heroic zone just quite isn't enough.

As far as the FoTM comment people like the idea of SK.  It is probably one of the most popular classes lore-wise for RP'ing games; however, for the longest time it was just a ridiculous idea to roll up a SK.  I mean you had every other plate tank spanking them in every category.  I mean nothing was worse than in RoK when the offensive plate tank was being out DPS'd by the defensive tank easily.  So they finally fix things, bump it up a little to actually make the class attractive again, and people flocked to it.  How many of those SKs are just alts?  I think half the people in my guild have a SK because guess what they always liked the idea of a SK and now they can add it to their roster without thinking it is a total waste of time.  SKs entered SF with less on the table from their SF AAs.  The small gap closed up even more and now there is a huge diversity in tanks.  Every tank is being utilized throughout the game.  So what exactly is the issue?

[Rahatmattata]

Azzaroth@Valor wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

People just defend crusaders because they play one.

People who switch to a class that is fotm will never know what they miss when trying to master a class.Spec against the things where you think your class dosnt does the best. This can be done mostly by equip.There is gear to spec against nearly any flaw a class can have. Find it, check it out, or spend your time whining on the forums.

1. Tank balance was never closer to equal then now. Balancing things out can happen through little nerfs and buffs. Nerfing a class to death like some people cry out here can and will not.2. Names of people who rush in every thread to cry nerf havoc sk dosn't vary really. Its getting odd, and it dosnt gets more important through this.3. Some people will never stop whining until they are OP.

Have you ever thought about playing as a team with a other tank class instead of seeing them as opponents?I think you be astonished how good thinks work out.

Thanks for proving my point. Only one or two people have asked for severe nerfs btw.

[KinMorbidreamer]

Azzaroth@Valor wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

Levatino wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

"people just complain cause an SK is doing better than them."

People just defend crusaders because they play one.

I think it's more like people started to play a guardian cause it was the flavor of the month, warriorstyle but then when TSO came saw that the crusader was fixed and got jealous and saw crusaders even replacing them as MT..

If people just played guards cuz it was FotM, they would be playing crusaders now.... on the forums, telling everyone tank balance is better than it has ever been.

People who switch to a class that is fotm will never know what they miss when trying to master a class.Spec against the things where you think your class dosnt does the best. This can be done mostly by equip.There is gear to spec against nearly any flaw a class can have. Find it, check it out, or spend your time whining on the forums.

1. Tank balance was never closer to equal then now. Balancing things out can happen through little nerfs and buffs. Nerfing a class to death like some people cry out here can and will not.2. Names of people who rush in every thread to cry nerf havoc sk dosn't vary really. Its getting odd, and it dosnt gets more important through this.3. Some people will never stop whining until they are OP.

Have you ever thought about playing as a team with a other tank class instead of seeing them as opponents?I think you be astonished how good thinks work out.

bolded for emphasis.

No, it really doesn't vary at all. Its always the same two guardians fighting tooth and nail to get something fixed that isn't even broken and yes, it really is getting old.

From a brief stroll to the flames guardian board I saw most guardians there are happy with their class, so why can't these two particular guardians be happy too?

I was one of (if not) the first HE SKs in EQ2 so that FoTM crap does not apply to me. I trudged through the game with a crap class for years before giving up, trying WoW (in which the warriors were particularly whiny as well, hmm...), and coming back only to met with FoTM accusations, and being called OP. I think these two guardians need to realize that they aren't the only guys playing the game and need to live and let live as they say.

[KinMorbidreamer]

Bruener wrote:

Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:

Azzaroth@Valor wrote:

Balancing things out can happen through little nerfs and buffs. Nerfing a class to death like some people cry out here can and will not.

Neither does overbuffing a class.

But you are correct ...we dont need massive nerfs or buffs now....what we need is tweaks....SK survivability it out of proportion to its DPS while tanking and needs to be toned down.  Its the only solution.  Buffing other fighter DPS/Aggro is not the answer.   SKs should be DPS monsters....but they should be much harder to keep up than they currently are.  Also AEs  need to scale down depending on encounter size so that a SK struggles on a single target as much as a Guard struggles on AEs but shines on AE....then the whole ST -vs- AE tank distinction might make sense cause currently it doesnt since AE tanks have as good or better control over singles as a ST tank does.

Its only in raids and then only select encounters where tanks working together matters.  And once fights have been mastered its often more optimal to use a Brigand for those fights that have specific requirements for fighter class.

Running heroic zones with 2 fighters is about as non-optimal as you can possibly get.

There has never been a class who's pupulation has skyrocketed more due to being FOTM than current SK.

SKs already take more damage than the other 3 plate tanks....mainly due to less survivability abilities and the ones they have are on the longer end of the recast times.  Also Paladins and Bezerkers DPS just as much as SKs.  You nerf SK survivability more and it just means bringing in more Zerkers/Paladins and its not like they are hurting for spots.  Very few guilds are replacing their MTs from Guards, but the few that are seem to all be going with Paladin...wow I wonder why that is.  Probably because they take less damage and are kings of agro.

Again give Guards a lil more in heroic, if it keeps you guys from complaining and completely messing up balance at the raid level.  I mean I guess the fact that you can easily tank every heroic zone just quite isn't enough.

As far as the FoTM comment people like the idea of SK.  It is probably one of the most popular classes lore-wise for RP'ing games; however, for the longest time it was just a ridiculous idea to roll up a SK.  I mean you had every other plate tank spanking them in every category.  I mean nothing was worse than in RoK when the offensive plate tank was being out DPS'd by the defensive tank easily.  So they finally fix things, bump it up a little to actually make the class attractive again, and people flocked to it.  How many of those SKs are just alts?  I think half the people in my guild have a SK because guess what they always liked the idea of a SK and now they can add it to their roster without thinking it is a total waste of time.  SKs entered SF with less on the table from their SF AAs.  The small gap closed up even more and now there is a huge diversity in tanks.  Every tank is being utilized throughout the game.  So what exactly is the issue?

Sorry for double post and again, bolded for emphasis.

SKs have always.. ALWAYS been an extremely popular class even as far back as EQ1 I'd say DE SK was one of the most overplayed race/class combinations.

I see way more zerkers these days than anything else anyway, so I think Gaylon's mileage varies from the rest of ours (or at least mine, at any rate)

Edit: oh, and wardens.. lots and lots and lots of wardens

[Nakash]

Rahatmattata wrote:

Azzaroth@Valor wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

People just defend crusaders because they play one.

People who switch to a class that is fotm will never know what they miss when trying to master a class.Spec against the things where you think your class dosnt does the best. This can be done mostly by equip.There is gear to spec against nearly any flaw a class can have. Find it, check it out, or spend your time whining on the forums.

1. Tank balance was never closer to equal then now. Balancing things out can happen through little nerfs and buffs. Nerfing a class to death like some people cry out here can and will not.2. Names of people who rush in every thread to cry nerf havoc sk dosn't vary really. Its getting odd, and it dosnt gets more important through this.3. Some people will never stop whining until they are OP.

Have you ever thought about playing as a team with a other tank class instead of seeing them as opponents?I think you be astonished how good thinks work out.

Thanks for proving my point. Only one or two people have asked for severe nerfs btw.

Only point i can proof is you and some others whining all over the forum again and again cause they want to get crusaders get nerfed. For some reason you seem not to be able to play your class while you feel hurt by some others doing well.

Namecalling is forbidden here, otherwise i would just list some names to make clear where the problem is.

In the end go fokus on your class and stop bickering. As already stated this is geting very odd see you and some other bickering on every thread where the two letters sk coming up. I am sry but i dont see where i can help you and some others with "your" problem.

so have a nice day.

[Rahatmattata]

Why does everyone think sucking at a guardian is a prerequisite for seeing crusaders are OP? The L2P cop-out is dumb and everyone likes to use it when they have no evidence to support their argument. Guardians are fine. I personally don't see a need to buff guardians or tanking would just be stupid easy (and it's already pretty easy with a dirge). Problem is, crusaders do more damage and have more threat while keep all the uncontested avoidance from a tower shield, both crusaders are the best soloers of fighters, they destroy face in pvp compared to a guard, shadowknights have the highest survivability of all fighters when there are a ton of mobs, paladins can play in the MT roll in a raid virtually equal to a guardian. Some advantages are fine, and both crusaders should excell at some things over all other fighters... but not almost everything. I believe shadowknights should be doing more dps than guards, solo better, and do better in 1 vs 1 pvp. But if this is to be the case then having more or very close to the survivability of a guardian in a group or raid vs one mob or many mobs is not balanced. Survivability and protecting group/raid members is the only thing a guard has going for it, it's why I rolled one, and it's what they are known for.

Guardians have maybe a slight survivability edge over paladins against single targets that can swat you for 50% + HP, and a better array of threat snaps. That's the only thing guardians have over any other fighter. Quite simply, if you kids really think guardians are just as good as crusaders (IE: balanced) you are delusional. If you want further evidence look at population numbers in tier 9. Look at how many players are playing shadowknights, and how many are playing guardians. I promise you shadowknight is not the most played class in the game because it's fun to RP with lulz.

If these posts are getting old and bother you, feel free to quit clicking on the thread champ. I'm not creating these threads. Two of them were created by shadowknights, so go figure. I'm not PMing the devs, or invading the crusader boards like many of your bretheren troll the guard board. I just post my opinion here and get on with the rest of my day. Honestly I really don't expect any nerfs, and I wouldn't be surprised if crusaders got more fixes and buffs (like fixing the shadowknight fluff pet, cuz that was important) while guardians and rangers continue to be left to their own devices.

[Landiin]

If you mean a couple to be almost every one then yea...

[KinMorbidreamer]

Rahatmattata wrote:

Why does everyone think sucking at a guardian is a prerequisite for seeing crusaders are OP? The L2P cop-out is dumb and everyone likes to use it when they have no evidence to support their argument. Guardians are fine. I personally don't see a need to buff guardians or tanking would just be stupid easy (and it's already pretty easy with a dirge). Problem is, crusaders do more damage and have more threat while keep all the uncontested avoidance from a tower shield, both crusaders are the best soloers of fighters, they destroy face in pvp compared to a guard, shadowknights have the highest survivability of all fighters when there are a ton of mobs, paladins can play in the MT roll in a raid virtually equal to a guardian. Some advantages are fine, and both crusaders should excell at some things over all other fighters... but not almost everything. I believe shadowknights should be doing more dps than guards, solo better, and do better in 1 vs 1 pvp. But if this is to be the case then having more or very close to the survivability of a guardian in a group or raid vs one mob or many mobs is not balanced. Survivability and protecting group/raid members is the only thing a guard has going for it, it's why I rolled one, and it's what they are known for.

Guardians have maybe a slight survivability edge over paladins against single targets that can swat you for 50% + HP, and a better array of threat snaps. That's the only thing guardians have over any other fighter. Quite simply, if you kids really think guardians are just as good as crusaders (IE: balanced) you are delusional. If you want further evidence look at population numbers in tier 9. Look at how many players are playing shadowknights, and how many are playing guardians. I promise you shadowknight is not the most played class in the game because it's fun to RP with lulz.

If these posts are getting old and bother you, feel free to quit clicking on the thread champ. I'm not creating these threads. Two of them were created by shadowknights, so go figure. I'm not PMing the devs, or invading the crusader boards like many of your bretheren troll the guard board. I just post my opinion here and get on with the rest of my day. Honestly I really don't expect any nerfs, and I wouldn't be surprised if crusaders got more fixes and buffs (like fixing the shadowknight fluff pet, cuz that was important) while guardians and rangers continue to be left to their own devices.

So, thats what your huge stink is? An e-ego* parse? Oh please.

Guards are STILL the go to tank for raids as they always have been which has also been the only reason to ever roll one up to begin with.

Why should a class get nerfed into the dirt just because your e-feelings are hurt over their damage output?

That "look at how many ppl play SKs!" cop-out is just as lame as the L2P cop-out and probably even less true, so ffs drop it already.

*-The other word I used is censored I guess

[Bruener]

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

Why does everyone think sucking at a guardian is a prerequisite for seeing crusaders are OP? The L2P cop-out is dumb and everyone likes to use it when they have no evidence to support their argument. Guardians are fine. I personally don't see a need to buff guardians or tanking would just be stupid easy (and it's already pretty easy with a dirge). Problem is, crusaders do more damage and have more threat while keep all the uncontested avoidance from a tower shield, both crusaders are the best soloers of fighters, they destroy face in pvp compared to a guard, shadowknights have the highest survivability of all fighters when there are a ton of mobs, paladins can play in the MT roll in a raid virtually equal to a guardian. Some advantages are fine, and both crusaders should excell at some things over all other fighters... but not almost everything. I believe shadowknights should be doing more dps than guards, solo better, and do better in 1 vs 1 pvp. But if this is to be the case then having more or very close to the survivability of a guardian in a group or raid vs one mob or many mobs is not balanced. Survivability and protecting group/raid members is the only thing a guard has going for it, it's why I rolled one, and it's what they are known for.

Guardians have maybe a slight survivability edge over paladins against single targets that can swat you for 50% + HP, and a better array of threat snaps. That's the only thing guardians have over any other fighter. Quite simply, if you kids really think guardians are just as good as crusaders (IE: balanced) you are delusional. If you want further evidence look at population numbers in tier 9. Look at how many players are playing shadowknights, and how many are playing guardians. I promise you shadowknight is not the most played class in the game because it's fun to RP with lulz.

If these posts are getting old and bother you, feel free to quit clicking on the thread champ. I'm not creating these threads. Two of them were created by shadowknights, so go figure. I'm not PMing the devs, or invading the crusader boards like many of your bretheren troll the guard board. I just post my opinion here and get on with the rest of my day. Honestly I really don't expect any nerfs, and I wouldn't be surprised if crusaders got more fixes and buffs (like fixing the shadowknight fluff pet, cuz that was important) while guardians and rangers continue to be left to their own devices.

So, thats what your huge stink is? An e-ego* parse? Oh please.

Guards are STILL the go to tank for raids as they always have been which has also been the only reason to ever roll one up to begin with.

Why should a class get nerfed into the dirt just because your e-feelings are hurt over their damage output?

That "look at how many ppl play SKs!" cop-out is just as lame as the L2P cop-out and probably even less true, so ffs drop it already.

*-The other word I used is censored I guess

Yeah, I mean nevermind the fact that Guards generate enough ST and AE agro to hold hate off of any class besides a fighter bent on ripping it.

Maybe, just maybe the extra damage/threat is to make up for the fact Guards can bulk down and become way more defensive.

[Landiin]

Bruener wrote:

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

Why does everyone think sucking at a guardian is a prerequisite for seeing crusaders are OP? The L2P cop-out is dumb and everyone likes to use it when they have no evidence to support their argument. Guardians are fine. I personally don't see a need to buff guardians or tanking would just be stupid easy (and it's already pretty easy with a dirge). Problem is, crusaders do more damage and have more threat while keep all the uncontested avoidance from a tower shield, both crusaders are the best soloers of fighters, they destroy face in pvp compared to a guard, shadowknights have the highest survivability of all fighters when there are a ton of mobs, paladins can play in the MT roll in a raid virtually equal to a guardian. Some advantages are fine, and both crusaders should excell at some things over all other fighters... but not almost everything. I believe shadowknights should be doing more dps than guards, solo better, and do better in 1 vs 1 pvp. But if this is to be the case then having more or very close to the survivability of a guardian in a group or raid vs one mob or many mobs is not balanced. Survivability and protecting group/raid members is the only thing a guard has going for it, it's why I rolled one, and it's what they are known for.

Guardians have maybe a slight survivability edge over paladins against single targets that can swat you for 50% + HP, and a better array of threat snaps. That's the only thing guardians have over any other fighter. Quite simply, if you kids really think guardians are just as good as crusaders (IE: balanced) you are delusional. If you want further evidence look at population numbers in tier 9. Look at how many players are playing shadowknights, and how many are playing guardians. I promise you shadowknight is not the most played class in the game because it's fun to RP with lulz.

If these posts are getting old and bother you, feel free to quit clicking on the thread champ. I'm not creating these threads. Two of them were created by shadowknights, so go figure. I'm not PMing the devs, or invading the crusader boards like many of your bretheren troll the guard board. I just post my opinion here and get on with the rest of my day. Honestly I really don't expect any nerfs, and I wouldn't be surprised if crusaders got more fixes and buffs (like fixing the shadowknight fluff pet, cuz that was important) while guardians and rangers continue to be left to their own devices.

So, thats what your huge stink is? An e-ego* parse? Oh please.

Guards are STILL the go to tank for raids as they always have been which has also been the only reason to ever roll one up to begin with.

Why should a class get nerfed into the dirt just because your e-feelings are hurt over their damage output?

That "look at how many ppl play SKs!" cop-out is just as lame as the L2P cop-out and probably even less true, so ffs drop it already.

*-The other word I used is censored I guess

Yeah, I mean nevermind the fact that Guards generate enough ST and AE agro to hold hate off of any class besides a fighter bent on ripping it.

Maybe, just maybe the extra damage/threat is to make up for the fact Guards can bulk down and become way more defensive.

LOL you are truly missing a couple chromosomes. 

[Bruener]

Toranx@Crushbone wrote:

LOL you are truly missing a couple chromosomes. 

As usual you just seem to bring so much insight to threads on this board.

Keep up the good work.

[Rahatmattata]

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

 Problem is, crusaders do more damage and have more threat while keep all the uncontested avoidance from a tower shield, both crusaders are the best soloers of fighters, they destroy face in pvp compared to a guard, shadowknights have the highest survivability of all fighters when there are a ton of mobs, paladins can play in the MT roll in a raid virtually equal to a guardian. Some advantages are fine, and both crusaders should excell at some things over all other fighters... but not almost everything. I believe shadowknights should be doing more dps than guards, solo better, and do better in 1 vs 1 pvp. But if this is to be the case then having more or very close to the survivability of a guardian in a group or raid vs one mob or many mobs is not balanced. Survivability and protecting group/raid members is the only thing a guard has going for it, it's why I rolled one, and it's what they are known for.

So, thats what your huge stink is? An e-ego* parse? Oh please.

You are dumb because you can't read. Have an adult read the pretty pink and bold text I highlighted for you, because your brain failed to process that information. In case your daddy doesn't get it either, just know the problem is not my dps [Removed for Content].

Guards are STILL the go to tank for raids as they always have been which has also been the only reason to ever roll one up to begin with.

You are wrong. The reason to roll a guard has always been to play the most defensive pure tank available. That doesn't change whether you are raiding or grouping. Guilds are using all kinds of plate tanks as main tanks. The fact that you truly believe SOE created one class that is only good for raiding, and is only good for one spot in a raid, and there are probably less than 200 raid guilds in the whole game using a guardian but thousands of people roll a guardian, really shows you aren't thinking before you type. Hell, you have already proven you don't read (or comprehend anyway) the post before you type either.

Why should a class get nerfed into the dirt just because your e-feelings are hurt over their damage output?

Dumb comment that has nothing to do with my post.

That "look at how many ppl play SKs!" cop-out is just as lame as the L2P cop-out and probably even less true, so ffs drop it already.

Not really. One is evidence, the other is a slogan you use when you have nothing to back your argument.

[Landiin]

Bruener wrote:

Toranx@Crushbone wrote:

LOL you are truly missing a couple chromosomes. 

As usual you just seem to bring so much insight to threads on this board.

Keep up the good work.

Why would I bring any more insight then already has been brought. All you bring is the same thing over and over that has been disproved or lacking in any factual data. It is a clear fact that crusaders do far to much DPS with sword and board. 

Again; you are truly missing a couple chromosomes.

[KinMorbidreamer]

Rahatmattata wrote:

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

 Problem is, crusaders do more damage and have more threat while keep all the uncontested avoidance from a tower shield, both crusaders are the best soloers of fighters, they destroy face in pvp compared to a guard, shadowknights have the highest survivability of all fighters when there are a ton of mobs, paladins can play in the MT roll in a raid virtually equal to a guardian. Some advantages are fine, and both crusaders should excell at some things over all other fighters... but not almost everything. I believe shadowknights should be doing more dps than guards, solo better, and do better in 1 vs 1 pvp. But if this is to be the case then having more or very close to the survivability of a guardian in a group or raid vs one mob or many mobs is not balanced. Survivability and protecting group/raid members is the only thing a guard has going for it, it's why I rolled one, and it's what they are known for.

And they do their job just fine. Maybe you, in particular do not, but most guards I've seen do.

So, thats what your huge stink is? An e-ego* parse? Oh please.

You are dumb because you can't read. Have an adult read the pretty pink and bold text I highlighted for you, because your brain failed to process that information. In case your daddy doesn't get it either, just know the problem is not my dps [Removed for Content].

I am dumb? Oh noes, I got insulted by a guy on the internet, what ever shall I do?

Guards are STILL the go to tank for raids as they always have been which has also been the only reason to ever roll one up to begin with.

You are wrong. The reason to roll a guard has always been to play the most defensive pure tank available. That doesn't change whether you are raiding or grouping. Guilds are using all kinds of plate tanks as main tanks. The fact that you truly believe SOE created one class that is only good for raiding, and is only good for one spot in a raid, and there are probably less than 200 raid guilds in the whole game using a guardian but thousands of people roll a guardian, really shows you aren't thinking before you type. Hell, you have already proven you don't read (or comprehend anyway) the post before you type either.

No, I am not wrong. Maybe its your server, but every high end guild on Permafrost and every other server I've read about uses a guard as their MT. Insulting me only proves you lack the intelligence to debate any further than baseless whining.

Why should a class get nerfed into the dirt just because your e-feelings are hurt over their damage output?

Dumb comment that has nothing to do with my post.

Again, from every post I see about you crying about crusaders it seems DPS is the big whine factor, leading me to believe DPS output has everything to do with your post. If it didn't then you wouldn't be crying over the fact that an SK (an offensive tank no less) outparses guards by a sizable amount.

That "look at how many ppl play SKs!" cop-out is just as lame as the L2P cop-out and probably even less true, so ffs drop it already.

Not really. One is evidence, the other is a slogan you use when you have nothing to back your argument.

Another popular slogan is this one: Cry Moar, scrub.

Yeah, since Rahat cannot think of anything more intelligent to say than calling me dumb, saying I can't read, and insulting my father I'm done.

Enjoy your baseless whine fest and try to not burst a blood vessel while raging over your next reply to me while coming up with the next wonderful salvo of QQ/insults.

I got guards to outparse afterall!

[Nightshade]

Perhaps the forum moderators should create an entire sub-forum dedicated to nothing but "Shadowknights should be nerfed because. . ." (minus proper spelling and grammar, since that is severely lacking in many posts).

That is a serious suggestion, by the way; I'm having a difficult time finding relevant topics anymore due to all these threads.

[Rahatmattata]

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Guards are STILL the go to tank for raids as they always have been which has also been the only reason to ever roll one up to begin with.

You are wrong. The reason to roll a guard has always been to play the most defensive pure tank available. That doesn't change whether you are raiding or grouping. Guilds are using all kinds of plate tanks as main tanks. The fact that you truly believe SOE created one class that is only good for raiding, and is only good for one spot in a raid, and there are probably less than 200 raid guilds in the whole game using a guardian but thousands of people roll a guardian, really shows you aren't thinking before you type. Hell, you have already proven you don't read (or comprehend anyway) the post before you type either.

No, I am not wrong. Maybe its your server, but every high end guild on Permafrost and every other server I've read about uses a guard as their MT. Insulting me only proves you lack the intelligence to debate any further than baseless whining.

You are wrong. Your reading comprehension is that of a 2nd grader. Just because the 3 or 4 high end guilds on your server use guardian tanks doesn't mean raid tanking is the only reason to roll one. That doesn't even make sense. And insulting you has nothing to do with a lack of intelligence, it's just a little spice thrown into an otherwise boring and repetative post. You know... the same stuff fighters have been fighting about since the beginning of MMOs.

But I do get your opinion. You think guards are fine and crusaders are not OP. You apparently think I rolled a guardian because you think I have a hard-on for dps. You are definitly entitled to believe whatever BS you want. You can believe the world is flat and the moon is made of cheese for all I care. It doesn't change the facts though.