<p>come on brawlers should be toping fighter dps how far ahead sk's are is just sad =/... cesium = sk.</p><p>tone them down! =p</p><p>210649.10 - a fanged Zeklord: (00:30) 6319473 | 210649.10 [Cesium-Harm Touch-80484]Cesium 1265643 | 42188.10Rophin 762564 | 25418.80Snipex 721603 | 24053.43Shawny 682591 | 22753.03Rotate 626046 | 20868.20Azroc 621736 | 20724.53Sinclaire 496306 | 16543.53Hukaro 459337 | 15311.23Cynix 343056 | 11435.20Mannya 231765 | 7725.50Rancherbob 61124 | 2037.47Ambiguous 47702 | 1590.07Cynix's un 0 | 0.00</p><p>205116.40 - High Marus Alaric: (02:14) 27485597 | 205116.40 [Cesium-Harm Touch-77353]Cesium 6945578 | 51832.67Rotate 3294680 | 24587.16Hukaro 3056910 | 22812.76Shawny 3023370 | 22562.46Snipex 2712486 | 20242.43Rophin 2531258 | 18889.98Azroc 2526103 | 18851.52Sinclaire 1355972 | 10119.19Mannya 641198 | 4785.06Cynix 560626 | 4183.78Ambiguous 439410 | 3279.18Rancherbob 398006 | 2970.19Snipex's a 0 | 0.00Azroc's th 0 | 0.00</p>

yeah the state of crusaders, sk's mainly, just bloez my mind. the devs HAVE to know they are OP. how could they not know ? it's almost like they want there to be an 'i win' class.

<p>They know, EVERY one know SK are the best all around tank bar none. I just wonder what dev plays one that has the pull to keep it that OP for so long. I don't really care they can DPS so high, what I do care about is their survivability isn't that far behind the best def tanks in the game and the CAY DPS that high at the same time. But /shrug what do I know.</p>

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They know, EVERY one know SK are the best all around tank bar none. I just wonder what dev plays one that has the pull to keep it that OP for so long. I don't really care they can DPS so high, what I do care about is their survivability isn't that far behind the best def tanks in the game and the CAY DPS that high at the same time. But /shrug what do I know.</p></blockquote><p>Zoltaroth plays one.  I've heard the new guy Xelgad plays one, but don't know for sure.</p>

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They know, EVERY one know SK are the best all around tank bar none. I just wonder what dev plays one that has the pull to keep it that OP for so long. I don't really care they can DPS so high, what I do care about is their survivability isn't that far behind the best def tanks in the game and the CAY DPS that high at the same time. But /shrug what do I know.</p></blockquote><p>SK is the level all tanks should be rather then nerf them they should use them as the bar and buff other classes up to their level.</p>

i don't agree with this. too many complaints already about this expansion being easy. crusaders pretty much trivialize aggro as it is. with this many classes you can never really expect true balance, and if you just keep bumping them up in an effort to lvl them off, you'll trivialize the whole game. to me it doesn't make sense for tanks to be doing so much damage anyway. imo tanks should do significantly less damage, and def stance should have a significant hate mod.

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SK is the level all tanks should be</p></blockquote><p>You should have to do work to hold aggro, not just face roll. Give shadowknights the survivability of a ranger and they would only be slightly OP.</p>

<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SK is the level all tanks should be</p></blockquote><p>You should have to do work to hold aggro, not just face roll. Give shadowknights the survivability of a ranger and they would only be slightly OP.</p></blockquote><p>This game should be fun not work, and even the worst of tanks don't really have to struggle much for agro.</p>

<p>1. How much of his parse is other people's procs and damage shields/wards?</p><p>2. Yes, Brawlers should do more DPS than plate.</p><p>3. Brawlers can't hold aggro against even the mystic ghost dog when pulling multiple encounters (even with crane twirl and flock active).</p><p>So, while I agree that the Brawler DPS isn't where it should be, and that their AOE hate generating ability is also not good enough, a parse is just a bunch of unqualified numbers signifying nothing.</p>

<p>Damage shields on tanks count for a lot - factor in that and its a lot closer.</p>

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SK is the level all tanks should be</p></blockquote><p>You should have to do work to hold aggro, not just face roll. Give shadowknights the survivability of a ranger and they would only be slightly OP.</p></blockquote><p>This game should be fun not work, and even the worst of tanks don't really have to struggle much for agro.</p></blockquote><p>fun for me and most ppl involves something of a challenge.  and i'm guessing you're one of those ppl that never does anything w/o a guild group, because even the worst crusaders do in fact struggle for aggro.  i play a zerk and i have some pugs that just wear my aggro out.  you can be a cool guy and say something like 'LOL THEN YOU SUCK LOL' but everyone who knows anything about a zerk knows that the majority of zerk aggro comes from aa and other passive things.  adrenaline rush, experienced insight, aggressive defense, aggressive nature, reversal of fortune, to name most of them.  after that it's all hate given by other ppl.</p>

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SK is the level all tanks should be</p></blockquote><p>You should have to do work to hold aggro, not just face roll. Give shadowknights the survivability of a ranger and they would only be slightly OP.</p></blockquote><p>This game should be fun not work, and even the worst of tanks don't really have to struggle much for agro.</p></blockquote><p>This game is so easy after 15-20 minutes of tanking I'm ready to be done for a few days. I guess if you find no challenge at all fun, then that's your thing. You probably like tic-tac-toe too where the worst outcome is you tie...</p>

<p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SK is the level all tanks should be</p></blockquote><p>You should have to do work to hold aggro, not just face roll. Give shadowknights the survivability of a ranger and they would only be slightly OP.</p></blockquote><p>This game should be fun not work, and even the worst of tanks don't really have to struggle much for agro.</p></blockquote><p>fun for me and most ppl involves something of a challenge.  and i'm guessing you're one of those ppl that never does anything w/o a guild group, because even the worst crusaders do in fact struggle for aggro.  i play a zerk and i have some pugs that just wear my aggro out.  you can be a cool guy and say something like 'LOL THEN YOU SUCK LOL' but everyone who knows anything about a zerk knows that the majority of zerk aggro comes from aa and other passive things.  adrenaline rush, experienced insight, aggressive defense, aggressive nature, reversal of fortune, to name most of them.  after that it's all hate given by other ppl.</p></blockquote><p>So you are a zerk that has trouble holding agro, got it.</p>

<p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. How much of his parse is other people's procs and damage shields/wards?</p><p>2. Yes, Brawlers should do more DPS than plate.</p><p>3. Brawlers can't hold aggro against even the mystic ghost dog when pulling multiple encounters (even with crane twirl and flock active).</p><p>So, while I agree that the Brawler DPS isn't where it should be, and that their AOE hate generating ability is also not good enough, a parse is just a bunch of unqualified numbers signifying nothing.</p></blockquote><p>That is obviously a raid since there are more people than 6 in the list. There should be fully buffed DPS classes in that raid that should blow the tank away. With SK's and sometimes Paladins it does not happen. I was in Cella with a paladin tank and a warlock. I was playing my Troubador and had Upbeat Tempo on the Warlock. The Paladin beat the T3/T4 equipped Warlock DPS by 2:1 and the warlock was working hard.</p><p>The above parse happens all the time. When you add the fact that a good number of the AoE's that add to the SK's DPS are also Life Taps then you can see just how unbalanced things are.</p>

<p>Do we really have to list all the reasons why pasted Parses like the OP are junk?  All parses can be manipulated, not to mention that just showing a name with a number tells you nothing about the DPS.  Lets see a screen shot on the damage types for the SK.</p><p>You know I had a parse of 80k in Cella the other day on the first named because I pull every mob on the plat form at once and just AE away.  We were in a very AE heavy group.  Looked at the damage types from the encounter and guess what....../GASP....50k DPS was from BANE WARDING alone.  The next highest was PoTM, than was Torrent which any class can get, than PoM, than Fanatical Devotion, so on and so on......</p><p>I wish ACT could just be changed to parse the numbers based on where the damage is actually coming from.  Temp procs buffs are a huge amount of DPS and come from other classes that supposedly don't DPS much.  I guarantee if they showed where the damage was coming from you would see classes like Shamans, Bards, Chanters, Mystics topping the parse.</p><p>Anyhow, give us something good to look at at least.  Give us the break down of damage types.</p>

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They know, EVERY one know SK are the best all around tank bar none. I just wonder what dev plays one that has the pull to keep it that OP for so long. I don't really care they can DPS so high, what I do care about is their survivability isn't that far behind the best def tanks in the game and the CAY DPS that high at the same time. But /shrug what do I know.</p></blockquote><p>SK is the level all tanks should be rather then nerf them they should use them as the bar and buff other classes up to their level.</p></blockquote><p>I disagree.  If my Guard were to all the sudden be able to do all the crap a SK can do at the same time, with ease and with very little sacrifice I would bench him for sure.  Tanks should have to work for aggro....should depend on their healers and group mates to keep them up while they take the DMG for the group and should be down with the healers on the DPS parse when tanking.</p><p>Don't get me wrong I enjoy mentoring down on my Guard and pulling all of ROV or Runneye and living but to be able to do that in "level appropriate" instances is just stupid.</p><p>Everytime I run Research Halls and get to the BIG RED button mob......I can't help but think ..label it TANK STUFF and that is what a SK player keyboard must look like. =P</p>

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Don't get me wrong I enjoy mentoring down on my Guard and pulling all of ROV or Runneye and living but to be able to do that in "level appropriate" instances is just stupid.</p></blockquote><p>My question is why can't you do that as a Guard.  Any fighter class can go pull a ton of mobs in an instance.  How many is dependant on how good of gear they have and even more how good their healer(s) are.  Example, like I mentioned before a Guard can go pull the first encounter in Cella with all the mobs and with a good bane warding shaman have a parse that blows away every other person in the group.</p>

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Don't get me wrong I enjoy mentoring down on my Guard and pulling all of ROV or Runneye and living but to be able to do that in "level appropriate" instances is just stupid.</p></blockquote><p>My question is why can't you do that as a Guard.  Any fighter class can go pull a ton of mobs in an instance.  How many is dependant on how good of gear they have and even more how good their healer(s) are.  Example, like I mentioned before a Guard can go pull the first encounter in Cella with all the mobs and with a good bane warding shaman have a parse that blows away every other person in the group.</p></blockquote><p>Remove the shaman, put in a warden. Then take the same 2 tanks in the same spot. The SK would BLOW THE GUARDIAN AWAY. No question. Oh and he would live just as well as the guard would. And keep significantly better aggro.</p>

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SK is the level all tanks should be</p></blockquote><p>You should have to do work to hold aggro, not just face roll. Give shadowknights the survivability of a ranger and they would only be slightly OP.</p></blockquote><p>This game should be fun not work, and even the worst of tanks don't really have to struggle much for agro.</p></blockquote><p>fun for me and most ppl involves something of a challenge.  and i'm guessing you're one of those ppl that never does anything w/o a guild group, because even the worst crusaders do in fact struggle for aggro.  i play a zerk and i have some pugs that just wear my aggro out.  you can be a cool guy and say something like 'LOL THEN YOU SUCK LOL' but everyone who knows anything about a zerk knows that the majority of zerk aggro comes from aa and other passive things.  adrenaline rush, experienced insight, aggressive defense, aggressive nature, reversal of fortune, to name most of them.  after that it's all hate given by other ppl.</p></blockquote><p>So you are a zerk that has trouble holding agro, got it.</p></blockquote><p>so you have a 'cool guy' comment for everything, got it.</p>

<p><cite>Xill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Don't get me wrong I enjoy mentoring down on my Guard and pulling all of ROV or Runneye and living but to be able to do that in "level appropriate" instances is just stupid.</p></blockquote><p>My question is why can't you do that as a Guard.  Any fighter class can go pull a ton of mobs in an instance.  How many is dependant on how good of gear they have and even more how good their healer(s) are.  Example, like I mentioned before a Guard can go pull the first encounter in Cella with all the mobs and with a good bane warding shaman have a parse that blows away every other person in the group.</p></blockquote><p>Remove the shaman, put in a warden. Then take the same 2 tanks in the same spot. The SK would BLOW THE GUARDIAN AWAY. No question. Oh and he would live just as well as the guard would. And keep significantly better aggro.</p></blockquote><p>True story!</p><p>The SK would actually survive allot more easily then the guard do to all the taps that would be going off.</p>

<p>Post the breakdown. I guarantee you harmtouch was huge on both of those parses. 5 min reuse ability on a 30s fight. It's like a wizard hitting fusion/ice comet/manaburn on a 20s fight and saying 'OMG GUYZ, I DID 130k DPS!'. I also promise you that he is spec'd trample, and both of those are multi-mob encounters. He was also tanking, and probably had DBW+other DS's. Cesium is also an extremely good SK, one of the best on your server. This parse is not the 'norm' even for top end SK's. Post something real instead of a 30s parse, and another 2 min fight with 5 mobs where he once again had everything up.</p><p>BTW, our Warlock/Conj do 80k+ on the mobs at the zone in, but once again, not mobs you can really say 'omg they're op!' because they can do 140k dps for the first ~10 seconds, and then drop down to about ~65-70k. Actual mobs + breakdowns before you cry nerf.</p><p>Secondarily, SK lifetaps are good against solo mobs and if timed perfectly with 8 mobs around you, one of our abilitys DOES act like a complete heal, other than that, they don't do more than 5% of my incoming heals in a raid situation.</p>

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Don't get me wrong I enjoy mentoring down on my Guard and pulling all of ROV or Runneye and living but to be able to do that in "level appropriate" instances is just stupid.</p></blockquote><p>My question is why can't you do that as a Guard. Any fighter class can go pull a ton of mobs in an instance. How many is dependant on how good of gear they have and even more how good their healer(s) are. Example, like I mentioned before a Guard can go pull the first encounter in Cella with all the mobs and with a good bane warding shaman have a parse that blows away every other person in the group.</p></blockquote><p>If all i cared about was stupid DPS parse....sure I can do that as a Guard.......if i wanted to see how fast the others in my group ... DPS and healers die.</p><p>In such a situation a SK would: </p><p>1) Live longer</p><p>2) Kill faster</p><p>3) do 1 and 2 because his group would actually still be alive due to the easy-mode aggro on all those mobs and his lifetaps actually become significant.</p>

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Don't get me wrong I enjoy mentoring down on my Guard and pulling all of ROV or Runneye and living but to be able to do that in "level appropriate" instances is just stupid.</p></blockquote><p>My question is why can't you do that as a Guard. Any fighter class can go pull a ton of mobs in an instance. How many is dependant on how good of gear they have and even more how good their healer(s) are. Example, like I mentioned before a Guard can go pull the first encounter in Cella with all the mobs and with a good bane warding shaman have a parse that blows away every other person in the group.</p></blockquote><p>If all i cared about was stupid DPS parse....sure I can do that as a Guard.......if i wanted to see how fast the others in my group ... DPS and healers die.</p><p>In such a situation a SK would: </p><p>1) Live longer</p><p>2) Kill faster</p><p>3) do 1 and 2 because his group would actually still be alive due to the easy-mode aggro on all those mobs and his lifetaps actually become significant.</p></blockquote><p>You act like those 2 parses of anything even relevant.  A buffed Sorceror could probably tank them in the right situation.  Its ridiculous posting crap like that and calling for nerfs.  People are still full of SK envy from TSO and can't get over it.  I mean I can go scan the Paladin parses and see 50k+ parses from named encounters.  Zerkers in an AE situation are HUGE parsers.  And finally most of you probably haven't seen the big numbers Guards can put up in situations.</p><p>This entire post is about those 2 parses and it is stupid.  Like I said lets see a break down of those parses by damage type.  Suprise suprise....it is mostly stuff every class in the game can get buffed with.  Focus buffs on one person in the raid ftw.</p><p>Somebody needs to write a program like ACT that gives credit to the class that actually does the damage.  Shamans topping parses.  Would luv to see those Shamans topping parses.</p>

battle frenzy isn't OP

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>...I mean I can go scan the Paladin parses and see 50k+ parses from named encounters. ...And finally most of you probably haven't seen the big numbers Guards can put up in situations....<p>...Like I said lets see a break down of those parses by damage type.  Suprise suprise....it is mostly stuff every class in the game can get buffed with....</p><p>...Somebody needs to write a program like ACT that gives credit to the class that actually does the damage...</p></blockquote><p>Until someone comes along and posts a guardian parsing 52 thousand dps or hitting a mob for 80 thousand damage you are just blowing smoke out your as. Saying "paladins can do it too" just means nerf paladins. Highest I've seen from a guard is 45k dps on the eq2flames guardian dps thread, and dude was duel wielding... bye bye block... Ignoring personal dps for a second, don't even try to compare crusader vs guard heal parses, or take into account how much a shadowknight is boosting a group's damage compared to a guard. But of course guards do have a <em><span style="font-size: x-small;">tiny</span></em> survivability advantage which <em>might occasionally</em> make a difference in <em>certain</em> situations, saving the group/raid an extra pull or two... so I guess all is well and good in Brownie's world.</p>

<p>Are you guys seriously QQ'ing that an AE tank does better on an AE encounter?  Quit calling for nerfs of other classes and learn to play your classes better.</p>

<p>Funny of you to say since you are pretty much a joke.</p><p><a href="http://www.EQ2Flames.com/rate-r3t4rd/49848-blanka-exceptional-self-ownage.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.EQ2Flames.com/rate-r3t4r...elf-ownage.html</a></p><p>Link doesn't work because of the word r3t4rd SOE filters cuz it's such a horrible word, but to summarize the link: you are full of sht.</p><p>Nerf crusaders btw.</p>

<p>Sad, you can't make your class work so you come cry about other classes when you already play one of the most OP classes in the game.  Sad thing is my guilds guardian parses just as high as this SK something you will probably never be able to do due to your obvious mental limitations.</p>

i would certainly like to hear from this guardian. i can't fathom a guardian doing dps on an sk level and would love some insight. i've never seen a guardian dps on this level in any application. 'dps' spec'd while dw in any manner of group or raid. this is the first time i've ever even heard of such a thing.

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>my guilds guardian parses just as high</p></blockquote><p>Prove it or shut your face. Noone cares what you "claim" cuz your word means nothing. No doubt your guild's guardian is duelwielding in ostance with dps gear on and the survivability of a swashbuckler to parse 50k+. And lol if you think doing dps takes some sort of skill or mental capacity. All it takes is gear and buffs and a trained chimp poking the keyboard.</p><p>I wish I had a 50 page thread of the community telling me how much I suck. You must be proud.</p>