Proof there should be a way to disable SOGA to others - Page 8

Naggyba · 11-08-2005, 11:49 PM

I don't agree with the idea of forcing people to view models they don't want to see. If I don't want to see the old models, I don't want to see it on MY computer.

Eepop · 11-09-2005, 01:48 AM

inserthere wrote:I think soe should just make an option so you can check a tick box of which model you want the whole playerbase to see, traditional eq2 or the new soga, no matter what they are using themselves.That way everyone show's themselves as they want to be seen by others and everyone should be happy, or at least happier than they are now

And everyone also has to have twice as much room to store the character textures in RAM. No thank you.

Suite · 11-09-2005, 08:39 PM

Dimgroth wrote:
Uh huh..

Well thats all fine and well but some people love using SOGA. And the halflings look like kender or lotr hobbits in new form for the most part and its far better than obese mini humans. Theyre active small stutured people fighting and adventuring, not sitting in a shire day in and day out toking and eating pie, they still do that but theyre active in this mmorpg.

I have posted this in the other SOGA discussion thread, but for the sake of defending Tolkien's ideas about hobbits, I'll ask is it possible you haven't seen some of Tolkien's own drawings of hobbits? I know they're a little hard to find on the web, so I'll post some here. I just respectfully must disagree with you. The SOGA models are not traditional fantasy models for LOTR hobbits or elves, for that matter.

Here's a drawing of two halflings. Look at the fellow on the left; from that angle he looks almost exactly like the current EQ2 hobbit, muttonchops and all. He is not the skinny little low-fat halfling you see in the SOGA models.

Here is Tolkien's own rendition of Bilbo in his house:

And here is what Tolkien himself wrote about hobbits:

"I am afraid, if you will need drawings of hobbits in various attitudes, I must leave it in the hands of someone who can draw. ... I picture a fairly human figure ... fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown)."
JRRT - Letters #27, writing to Houghton Mifflin circa March-April 1938

Wikipedia has a very good page, full of links to Tolkien's own comments and writing about elves, here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/elves-middle-earth

In Tolkien's world, elves were very much like men, although more like mankind in an unfallen (sinless) state. They were stronger and wiser than men, and immortal. They did have pointy ears, with the ears being leaf-shaped with a slight point at the end. The type of ear on the SOGA and current EQ2 models are not the Tokienesque type of elven ear. In fact, elves might be mistaken for humans at times in the world of Tolkien. Legolas was very much the picture of the type of elf Tolkien described.

The SOGA models are many things, but they don't seem to fit the traditional Tolkienesque look. The movies did a fine job presenting the various races as Tolkien himself envisioned them; these models don't do that. But it's already been clearly stated that the goal of the models was to make this game acceptable to an Asian market that has different values of appearance than we do. We think being pudgy or even fat or ugly, or having a long nose or beady eyes, or curly hair or having a beard on a dwarven woman is acceptable. That market evidently didn't and so they got rid of anything that would turn that market off to the game and gave them what they wanted: Barbie's little sister Skipper in one form or another.

GO SKIPPER!

Dimgroth · 11-09-2005, 10:19 PM

you and I have different eyes apparently, oh well.

Naggyba · 11-09-2005, 11:24 PM

Ok, they are live now. It's overwith. Let's get back to discussing other issues now SMILEY

Thro · 11-11-2005, 10:08 PM

I'm with the OP.

The issue for me isn't that the Soga models look inherently bad, it is that they . . . at least for female gnome tunes . . . look entirely different. So while to some people your gnome looks like a slender, trim, agile fighter, to others the same character looks like an old, wornout, slightly overweight grandma. And there really is nothing I can do to prevent this, I've tried everything to make the Soga models look like what my character is intended to be about, but they just look entirely different.

As far as I am concerned, the difference is so pronounced that I wouldn't feel one ounce different if my Gnome's Soga appearance was that of an dwarf or hobbit, or even an Iksar for that matter. And that, to me, is the problem. Not that Soga looks bad in its own right, it is just that had we started with Soga I would never have made a Gnome.

Dimgroth · 11-12-2005, 03:37 AM

uh huh, I have a simular problem. My new dark elven mage looks amazing in new form, but in old he looks horrible, and nothing I can do to prevent people from seeing the old dark elven model.

curtlewis · 11-12-2005, 06:58 AM

You'd think they could map colors and hair styles and such to similar ones so they're look the same only rendered in the appropriate style.

Suta · 11-16-2005, 05:01 PM

I just wish they'd never had introduced this ugly graphical vomit to EQ2.

SOGA = Seriously Overrated Garish Artwork

We must have a lot of juvenile Zelda fans who love the childish eastern artwork style with the Donkey-Elf ears for this garbage to be introduced to what is supposed to be a high fantasy style game.

crunchybob · 11-17-2005, 07:59 PM

You know...the things people whine about.

Who really fricking cares? Its a game. If you want to rant about playability issues, broken quests or class nerfs I'll be right there with you...but SOGA?

Who ARE you people?

If you're willing to quit a game over character graphics, especially optional ones...well...bye, I guess. Your loss.

Make the game look the way you want it to, if someone else doesn't see you the same way, but it makes THEM happy playing the game THEY also pay for, I don't know how you think you have the right to bully them into using the models you want. Your money is more important than thiers? Your style of play is more important than thiers?

Smacks of hypocrisy

Message Edited by crunchybob on 11-17-2005 09:00 AM

Nu · 11-18-2005, 02:08 PM

I play a ratonga, so luckily I dont have the soga problem, but I feel for all you people getting sick of the thought that someone else might see you as a childish silly asian cartoon guy, instead of the original appearence you choose when creating your char a year ago, thinking it would forever look like you made it =(

SOGA was a pretty crappy idea from the start.. best thing would problaby be to take them away completely, but that would make some other people mad I guess =(

Edit: We have no plans to change the existing method of choosing whether each player wants to use SOGA models, so this thread is being locked.

Message Edited by Moorgard on 11-18-2005 01:44 AM

11-09-2005, 01:48 AM	#212
Eepop Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 704	inserthere wrote:I think soe should just make an option so you can check a tick box of which model you want the whole playerbase to see, traditional eq2 or the new soga, no matter what they are using themselves.That way everyone show's themselves as they want to be seen by others and everyone should be happy, or at least happier than they are now And everyone also has to have twice as much room to store the character textures in RAM. No thank you. __________________

11-09-2005, 08:39 PM	#213
Suite Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	Dimgroth wrote: Uh huh.. Well thats all fine and well but some people love using SOGA. And the halflings look like kender or lotr hobbits in new form for the most part and its far better than obese mini humans. Theyre active small stutured people fighting and adventuring, not sitting in a shire day in and day out toking and eating pie, they still do that but theyre active in this mmorpg. I have posted this in the other SOGA discussion thread, but for the sake of defending Tolkien's ideas about hobbits, I'll ask is it possible you haven't seen some of Tolkien's own drawings of hobbits? I know they're a little hard to find on the web, so I'll post some here. I just respectfully must disagree with you. The SOGA models are not traditional fantasy models for LOTR hobbits or elves, for that matter. Here's a drawing of two halflings. Look at the fellow on the left; from that angle he looks almost exactly like the current EQ2 hobbit, muttonchops and all. He is not the skinny little low-fat halfling you see in the SOGA models. Here is Tolkien's own rendition of Bilbo in his house: And here is what Tolkien himself wrote about hobbits: "I am afraid, if you will need drawings of hobbits in various attitudes, I must leave it in the hands of someone who can draw. ... I picture a fairly human figure ... fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown)." JRRT - Letters #27, writing to Houghton Mifflin circa March-April 1938 Wikipedia has a very good page, full of links to Tolkien's own comments and writing about elves, here: http://www.answers.com/topic/elves-middle-earth In Tolkien's world, elves were very much like men, although more like mankind in an unfallen (sinless) state. They were stronger and wiser than men, and immortal. They did have pointy ears, with the ears being leaf-shaped with a slight point at the end. The type of ear on the SOGA and current EQ2 models are not the Tokienesque type of elven ear. In fact, elves might be mistaken for humans at times in the world of Tolkien. Legolas was very much the picture of the type of elf Tolkien described. The SOGA models are many things, but they don't seem to fit the traditional Tolkienesque look. The movies did a fine job presenting the various races as Tolkien himself envisioned them; these models don't do that. But it's already been clearly stated that the goal of the models was to make this game acceptable to an Asian market that has different values of appearance than we do. We think being pudgy or even fat or ugly, or having a long nose or beady eyes, or curly hair or having a beard on a dwarven woman is acceptable. That market evidently didn't and so they got rid of anything that would turn that market off to the game and gave them what they wanted: Barbie's little sister Skipper in one form or another. GO SKIPPER! __________________

11-09-2005, 10:19 PM	#214
Dimgroth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 214	you and I have different eyes apparently, oh well. __________________ -------------------------------------------------------- Nothing can stop me now, cause I dont care, anymore..

11-12-2005, 03:37 AM	#217
Dimgroth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 214	uh huh, I have a simular problem. My new dark elven mage looks amazing in new form, but in old he looks horrible, and nothing I can do to prevent people from seeing the old dark elven model. __________________ -------------------------------------------------------- Nothing can stop me now, cause I dont care, anymore..

11-17-2005, 07:59 PM	#220
crunchybob Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 26	You know...the things people whine about. Who really fricking cares? Its a game. If you want to rant about playability issues, broken quests or class nerfs I'll be right there with you...but SOGA? Who ARE you people? If you're willing to quit a game over character graphics, especially optional ones...well...bye, I guess. Your loss. Make the game look the way you want it to, if someone else doesn't see you the same way, but it makes THEM happy playing the game THEY also pay for, I don't know how you think you have the right to bully them into using the models you want. Your money is more important than thiers? Your style of play is more important than thiers? Smacks of hypocrisy Message Edited by crunchybob on 11-17-2005 09:00 AM __________________ Igio - Mystic and officer of Aeternus - Oasis server ."if you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit." - Mitch Hedberg 1968-2005 RIP

11-08-2005, 11:49 PM	#211
Naggyba Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 518	I don't agree with the idea of forcing people to view models they don't want to see. If I don't want to see the old models, I don't want to see it on MY computer.

11-09-2005, 11:24 PM	#215
Naggyba Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 518	Ok, they are live now. It's overwith. Let's get back to discussing other issues now

11-11-2005, 10:08 PM	#216
Thro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	I'm with the OP. The issue for me isn't that the Soga models look inherently bad, it is that they . . . at least for female gnome tunes . . . look entirely different. So while to some people your gnome looks like a slender, trim, agile fighter, to others the same character looks like an old, wornout, slightly overweight grandma. And there really is nothing I can do to prevent this, I've tried everything to make the Soga models look like what my character is intended to be about, but they just look entirely different. As far as I am concerned, the difference is so pronounced that I wouldn't feel one ounce different if my Gnome's Soga appearance was that of an dwarf or hobbit, or even an Iksar for that matter. And that, to me, is the problem. Not that Soga looks bad in its own right, it is just that had we started with Soga I would never have made a Gnome.

11-12-2005, 06:58 AM	#218
curtlewis Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 246	You'd think they could map colors and hair styles and such to similar ones so they're look the same only rendered in the appropriate style.

11-16-2005, 05:01 PM	#219
Suta General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	I just wish they'd never had introduced this ugly graphical vomit to EQ2. SOGA = Seriously Overrated Garish Artwork We must have a lot of juvenile Zelda fans who love the childish eastern artwork style with the Donkey-Elf ears for this garbage to be introduced to what is supposed to be a high fantasy style game.

11-18-2005, 02:08 PM	#221
Nu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	I play a ratonga, so luckily I dont have the soga problem, but I feel for all you people getting sick of the thought that someone else might see you as a childish silly asian cartoon guy, instead of the original appearence you choose when creating your char a year ago, thinking it would forever look like you made it =( SOGA was a pretty crappy idea from the start.. best thing would problaby be to take them away completely, but that would make some other people mad I guess =( Edit: We have no plans to change the existing method of choosing whether each player wants to use SOGA models, so this thread is being locked. Message Edited by Moorgard on 11-18-2005 01:44 AM __________________ 60 carpenter / 60 assassin, Cadre of Toxxulia