<DIV>Okay, as we all know SOGA is coming, and there is a somewhat unaddressed problem coming with it: other players using the new graphic settings could see you as something entirely different than you intended, hence this picture: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/Bloodl0ss/soga.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the left is the half-elf model that I use slight variations of for all of my main characters (turn your brightness up if you can't see it well enough). And on the right is the SOGA version of almost the same character, just with the skin & hair color changed to emphasize how effeminate they new models are (and the tear added in MS Paint to show how Emo he is). I do not want my character to look anything like that SOGA model to <EM>anybody;</EM> just being able to turn it off for myself is not enough. I messed around with the creation on test for a while and there is no way, I repeat, no way to even come close to replicating the look of my characters on the live servers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before anyone says it, I am aware that seeing the new models on <EM>my</EM> client is optional, but that does not solve this problem. The point i'm trying to make here is that there should be a way to disable others from seeing you as a SOGA model, and I know i'm not the only one who feels that way.  If you can't see the harm in having no control of your appearance to others, then look at it from a roleplaying perspective: roleplayers create a character with a specific vision & purpose in mind, but when something like this comes along it hinders the process. Roleplayers would often have to ask people whether they have Setting X on (or get them to turn a certain setting on/off beforehand), otherwise you'd have no way of knowing what others see you as. In other cases, people who couldn't be bothered to make a new customized appearance for SOGA, could unknowingly look like horrible emo/anime rejects like the one I made above, inducing laughter & ridicule from anyone who sees them; it's just not right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>FInally, I am aware of the dev responses stating that being able to hide/show SOGA to others wouldn't be as simple as a /showhood or /hide_illusion, and the speculation that it could cause frame-rate problems, but come on now.. this game is supposed to be using one of the most advanced graphic engines to date (hence the very high settings that were designed for computers a few years in the future). I find it hard to believe that rendering a few extra models would somehow break the game. Okay, maybe if you got 22 different old models and 22 different SOGA models together in a small area it could slow the game down, but that would likely never happen, and the higher performance graphic settings would eliminate those issues since they don't even load the skin textures when that many characters are around. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, this is the testing feedback board and that is my feedback. If nothing else, keep in mind that a recent poll on a different site revealed that character customization is the most important thing for the majority of MMO players, and that whole ideal gets thrown out the window when others can completely change your percieved appearance with the click of a button.</DIV>

Devs have said I don't know how many times that you will be able to customize both models to your liking. <div></div>

Me think its your real alter ego <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

<DIV>Yes. When SOGA goes live you will have the option to customise both models separately.</DIV>

Lesson to be learned: Read before you post <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

<div></div>I think you all are missing the OP point.  Seems to me he tried to create a new character on the test server and customize the look to be close to his perception of what he wants for the character he plays, but with the minimal options available to the SOGA characters is unable to find a look similar to what he has now.  So even when they add customization ability to our current characters he will be unable to find an image that will be acceptable to him. Personally I have not made up my mind if I like SOGA models or not.  I really don't understand why they insist pushing the SOGA models onto all the servers since they were designed for a small portion of the population(those that play on the japanese server). This is all a mute point most likely, these are all the same issues that came about when new models were introduced to EQ1 and all the complaints that were made then did not deter SOE from implementation.  Would not be suprised if sometime down the road they get rid of the option to use the non SOGA models (just like they did in EQ1) <div></div><p>Message Edited by jordaann on <span class=date_text>10-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:08 AM</span>

<P>The difference between the EQ1 model revamp was that the revamp was exactly that... a redo of the original models with a higher polygon count, because the engine could now handle it.</P> <P>These models were designed for a target, non-westerner audience. MG has already said multiple times that they were designed to appeal to the average person in asian pacific areas... not here. They were being provided to US/Euro servers because it's kind of a jerky thing to do to give a whole different look and not let most of the playerbase access to it.</P> <P> </P> <P>Obviously testing in the asian market has shown that the lesser amount of customization, lack of piercings, and emaciated look scored well. It will appeal to some in the US/Euro market, so it's an option for us... but never intended as a replacement. The "realistic" look is still the mainstay look for EQ2. </P>

I love them, and its one of the saving points for a game thatd dieing by lack of variety for me. <div></div>

So if i'm reading this right, our characters will have 2 different look's when it hit's live as it seem's you have to customize the SOGA model to look as close as you can to your current model?And as that's most likely impossible to get a close lookalike, the character you (may) have put time in picking out the exact eye colour, hair styling etc for, can then be seen as something 'completely' different to what you envisioned?Whilst character look's aren't important to some, I do care how my character look's. I'd be just as happy if they then said to me 'hmm, well move xx points of Int to Str, maybe Change a few points of Wis for a few Sta, switch Magic Resist with Disease, now doesn't that seem much nicer'Oh, and my characters a Sorceror, so the above stat changes would NOT be welcolmed.

<DIV>Why even bother customizing your look in SOGA models if u dont plan to use them.  Dont worry about insecurity or vanity, thats for real life (if at all) we should be able to get past that for a game,  make the character how you like it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People who see the same model might agree with you or might disagree totally, they might think you look totally ugly or a complete dork when u think you are a handsome hero. People who use the SOGA models might again think you look weird in the translation across from normal models .. or they might think that in normal US models u suck and in SOGA you rock just cos they like SOGA styling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point is, dont worry about it, like what you yourself see, and dont worry about others opinions, preferances and models used cos they wont think the same as you anyway.</DIV>

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jordaann wrote:<BR> I think you all are missing the OP point.  Seems to me he tried to create a new character on the test server and customize the look to be close to his perception of what he wants for the character he plays, but with the minimal options available to the SOGA characters is unable to find a look similar to what he has now.  So even when they add customization ability to our current characters he will be unable to find an image that will be acceptable to him.<BR><BR>Personally I have not made up my mind if I like SOGA models or not.  I really don't understand why they insist pushing the SOGA models onto all the servers since they were designed for a small portion of the population(those that play on the japanese server).<BR><BR>This is all a mute point most likely, these are all the same issues that came about when new models were introduced to EQ1 and all the complaints that were made then did not deter SOE from implementation.  Would not be suprised if sometime down the road they get rid of the option to use the non SOGA models (just like they did in EQ1)<BR><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by jordaann on <SPAN class=date_text>10-29-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>07:08 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Read his post more closely. You'll find that he means that the SOGA model is completely different. After all,  why would he choose one model to be white and the other to be black if he was trying to make a close customisation?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT</DIV> <DIV>Sorry, you're right but still.....there are closer customisations than that.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by deadlynightshadow104528 on <span class=date_text>10-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:03 AM</span>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magus` wrote:<BR>Lesson to be learned: Read before you post <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Here's a lesson for you: Read before you Troll.</P> <P>I am aware we will be able to customize both appearances, that does not remedy the issue here. The point here is that to many players, there will be NO acceptable SOGA version of their character. In the case of half-elf, all of the hairstyles were changed, all piercings were removed, the body type itself was changed. The closest comparison I could make to my normal character still looks like a completely different race in SOGA, and I don't want to be seen as that to anybody. The one I created for the picture was an extreme example of how bad it can look, but the 'best' SOGA character I could come up with after 45 minutes was still not acceptable, hence the desire for an option to disable SOGA graphics on your character to others.</P><p>Message Edited by TheyLive on <span class=date_text>10-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:03 AM</span>

<P>While I admit that there isn't a great SOGA substute to your character model, TheyLive, I made a quick recreation (no facial/size/eye changes etc) of your character and I think that it's at least reasonable. Here's a link to a picture.</P> <P><A href="http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled1copy9zy.jpg" target=_blank>http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled1copy9zy.jpg</A></P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by deadlynightshadow104528 on <span class=date_text>10-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 AM</span>

<DIV>The reason why has already been addressed over and over, so yeah, read before you post. If you don't like the reason, then simply quit. I'm sure there are fewer people that will be up in arms over how other people see their character than those who don't really care one way or the other.</DIV>

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>jordaann wrote:<div></div>I really don't understand why they insist pushing the SOGA models onto all the servers since they were designed for a small portion of the population(those that play on the japanese server).<hr></blockquote>The SOGA models have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Japanese servers.  The SOGA models were created for the release of Everquest 2 East into the markets of China, Taiwan, and Korea.  The Japanese servers have been using the US models from the beginning and there had not been any plan for them to change.  But now we all get the OPTION of using these models or not using them.  We get the ABILITY to customize both sets for our single character.  I do not think that the SOE people could please a greater number of people on this issue if they tried.   As for why the SOGA models are being introduced on US servers, most individuals at the Fan Fair liked the images of these models and thought it would be good to have them as an option.  The developers obliged. Edit:  TO original poster, there are closer resemblances that could be made.  In any event, your character before looks just as unpleasant to me.  And I do not much care for your after image either.  I personally see the following image as masculine.  Well, defined jaw line, stern look, and set of abs. <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/icarus137/halfelf1.jpg"></span><div></div><p><span class="time_text"> </span></p><p>Message Edited by AbsentmindedMage on <span class=date_text>10-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:37 AM</span>

Simply stop whining about how your char is gonna be fugly to those without SOGA turned on and whatnot. Heres the official reason from Moorgard as to why you won't disable SOGA to others:<span><blockquote><hr><span>Moorgard wrote: <blockquote> <hr> EtoilePB wrote:It strikes me that it's no fun letting someone ELSE decide how they see me.  I would have thought this owuld be like /showhood or /hide_illusion, and up to the player? <hr> </blockquote> <p>Unfortunately it isn't as simple as /showhood or illusions. We're introducing a substantial number of new models into the game, and with those new models come a host of necessary appearances and animations. It would be too demanding on the game client (and the majority of computer systems) to add 22 new models to the game, all of which could conceivably be on screen along with the existing character models. You think congested areas have low framerates now...</p> <p>That's why everyone has to choose which version of the player character models they want to see as they play. </p> <p>On the plus side, you'll be able to save two sets of customizations: one for the original models, one for the SOGA versions. That way you'll at least know how your character will be seen regardless of which models another player is using.</p></span><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

<P><FONT color=#ff3300>I think the soga models should be automatic, say you change the option to soga and then you it should just convert what you have to soga instead of having 2 ways of looking diferent, how unique can you be if you will look diferent depending on the option you have on?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff3300>Good Luck!</FONT></P>

There ARE decent custimizations to match your old one (which I dont care for, but I hate the current models anyway) you just seem caught up on it too much and I dont see the point of whining to this extent.  Im looking forward to SOGA, so much so that im going through 7 hours of test patch right now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

<span><blockquote><hr>Dimgroth wrote:There ARE decent custimizations to match your old one (which I dont care for, but I hate the current models anyway) you just seem caught up on it too much and I dont see the point of whining to this extent.  Im looking forward to SOGA, so much so that im going through 7 hours of test patch right now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Ha, I did the same thing. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> nice NIN sig </span><div></div>

I think what really matter is the perception. Maybe for you this look "[Removed for Content]" and you dont want to look that way. But be aware that people who's going to turn SOGA on like these look and when they will see you in game, would not say: HAHAHHA YOU THE [Removed for Content]!! but will think its cool and nice. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can understand how you feel about it but I for one really like the SOGA model and don't think this look [Removed for Content] or effeminate but are a part of a whole different culture that I like.</DIV>

There are some SOGA which are drastically different.  Orges anyone? I thought gnome females were relatively unaffected... until you see them from the side and look at the options for hair. Nose issue aside (but the gnome female nose is horrid), part of Rijacki's story, the reason for her profession, is linked to the fact she was born with fire red hair and crystal blue eyes... and it was the spikey firey hairstyle that inspired me. SOGA... no red hair for gnomes and the closest you get to the spikey or even -any- tousled is the swept back... <img src="http://www.eq2alchemy.com/rijacki/SOGA/face-sm.jpg"> Add to this the heroine addict look.... <img src="http://www.eq2alchemy.com/rijacki/SOGA/stickgnome.jpg"> Being able to customise both -may- work for some, but for many, there are NO options in the SOGA which come even relatively close to key things about the character's appearance. Really, what I would MUCH rather see is additional options to the existing models.. ONE model.. but those options come from the SOGA so that people can add the additional hair styles, elongated elf ears, body weight, even the plastic amine look. <div></div>

You know, if you don't like them, then turn them off, get over it and move on. Because you don't like something and insecure, doesn't give you the right to take that option away from others who DO like them. If someone sees your toon differently, so frillin what. Get over yourself and just move on.Trying to get an option to take away the option for others is just wrong.<p>Message Edited by Naggybait on <span class=date_text>10-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:25 PM</span>

<P>I think Soga models was a Cheap, efficient way for SOE to NOT give more character customization to the Current Models , and to use a Cheap WoW rip off look ; ( , </P> <P>Why wouldn't they Expand on THERE Vision instead of using some cheap 3rd party WoW rip off look and someone Else's Vision of EQ2 ; ( , geesh that could have atleast Contracted out some more character customizations for the current models. and im sure there are also plenty of Artistic programmers that play EQ2 that could have created some way Better Soga Models than these  cooky cutter copy and pasted plastic looking things ; ( ,   </P> <P>  i swear the picture above someone stated as lookin Manly was frightening : ( it reminds me of a 16 year old's body or more to the point Leonardo DeCaprio : (      Gag Me please    that isn't a manly body in any way shape or form , and that pretty little face looks like somethin in a sunday morning kids cartoon or an old ladies catalog book with perfum adds and male models skinnier than the femal models : (. </P> <P>that pict the guy looks like he is 5 foot 5 and weighs 100 pounds , throw about 40 pounds of muscle on various parts of his body, this is an adventurer ? this guy climbs mountains and fights bears? this guy could break his arm trying to put in his hair jell (womans hair jell at that) </P> <P> </P> <P>lol i scrolled back up took another look : ) Ricky Schroder from Silver spoons Thats him in Soga model Hahahaha</P><p>Message Edited by Giralus on <span class=date_text>10-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:23 PM</span>

*Grin* I play on test server now till the SOGA models come out, theyre amazing! I love the improvements on all the male characters, the female ones look all very simular to each other but the general look of them isnt so bad, just a little too [Removed for Content] off looking.  I managed to make a great dark elf warrior, a kender named after Tasslehoff Burrfoot and a human warrior that looks like me (at least, before my haircut last month hahah) Warrior Within: <img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/Lord_Balthaazar1/EQ2_000015.jpg"> <img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/Lord_Balthaazar1/EQ2_000022.jpg"> <img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/Lord_Balthaazar1/EQ2_000033.jpg"> Tasslehof Burrfoot: <img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/Lord_Balthaazar1/EQ2_000042.jpg"> <img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/Lord_Balthaazar1/EQ2_000043.jpg"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/Lord_Balthaazar1/EQ2_000051.jpg"> and lastly, the drow warrior: <img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/Lord_Balthaazar1/EQ2_000004.jpg"> <img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/Lord_Balthaazar1/EQ2_000012.jpg"> ( I love the new models, much improved in my opinion. Sorry for image quality, they uploaded huge and had to downsize them to put them here ) <div></div>

The MAJORITY of the playerbase wanted/wants SOGA models. That's why they are offering the OPTION to see one OR the other. SOE had nothing to do with trying to offer a cheap addition to make a change. It was the PLAYERS who asked for these. SOE just decided to give us the option after a LOT of players ASKED for them. Get your facts right.There are only a FEW and VERY FEW people that don't like them. The rest of the userbase likes them or doesn't care one way or the other. Just FEW people whinning about them.If you don't like them, don't turn them on. It's really that simple. No one cares if you are too vain that you don't want others seeing you differently than what you chose. Just get over yourself and move on. It's going live and that's it.The MAJORITY of us like them and want them.<p>Message Edited by Naggybait on <span class=date_text>10-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:23 PM</span>

<span><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:There are some SOGA which are drastically different.  Orges anyone? I thought gnome females were relatively unaffected... until you see them from the side and look at the options for hair. Nose issue aside (but the gnome female nose is horrid), part of Rijacki's story, the reason for her profession, is linked to the fact she was born with fire red hair and crystal blue eyes... and it was the spikey firey hairstyle that inspired me. SOGA... no red hair for gnomes and the closest you get to the spikey or even -any- tousled is the swept back... <div></div><hr></blockquote>The Nose is what a gnome's nose is suppose to look like.  It is suppose to be huge and hook like.  Their ears are suppose to be pointed.  The current  model gnomes look like minature humans not gnomes.  That is an issue with many of the humaniod models.  The Elves looked like humans with pointy ears.  Elves are suppose to be slender attractive figures. <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/icarus137/gnomef.jpg"> Now, if you actually played with the customization options instead of coming here complaining about how you do not want to use these models at all, you would have seen that red hair is in fact an option for gnomes: <img src="http:///img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/icarus137/red1.jpg"> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/icarus137/red2.jpg"> You have to be the only person though that I have seen complain about the hair not being spikey enough.  The red option is on the top bar of the hair colors.  You can adjust brightness of it through highlights and proper mixing of colors. </span><div></div>

There is a distinct difference between brown (which is the top option on the gnome hair palette), burgandy-ish brown (that you made), and orange-red of my character's hair.  If there was no difference, why is the orange offered to other races, i.e. wood elves?  If it was possible to make fire-orange-red with only the combos you have for gnomes, there would be no reason to make orange to red an option for -any- race. <img src="http://www.eq2alchemy.com/rijacki/SOGA/woodelf.jpg"><img src="http://www.eq2alchemy.com/rijacki/SOGA/face-sm.jpg"> As for the single spike.... that's one of the options, too, for the current hairstyles.  If you look at the hairstyle in my sig, you will see which one she has.  Oh.... and no glasses for gnomes with SOGA... Frankly, I don't personally care if you have the SOGA models on or not.  You will see my character inacccurately, yes, but that's because you need your eyes fixed... Some wanted "proof" that you can't recreate current looks in SOGA, thus my own screenshots with my character.  To make something even semi-like my character, I will have to make a lot of compromises and still people will see her not as she is.  THAT was the point of the OP and others. <div></div>

<DIV>Only read the first post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I cannot believe there is so much consternation about how other people will see your character. There are several people agonizing over this point. . . .jeez. . . .there are bigger issues in the game then people seeing you in way other then you like.</DIV>

<div></div><div></div><div></div>The top pallette is not brown.  It is the dark colors including the dark red that I showed in the screen above.  You can make the black hair, brown, red, and dirty blonde hair on that top pallette. What you are really asking for is not red, you want orange hair.  No, the soga female gnomes do not have the medusa hair style(what you are calling spikey).  We will see your character as you make it in the soga model set and that is all that matters to people who use those models.  Just as you will see their characters in the current model set as best as they can make them. Neither model set is perfect, people will be able to choose what they think is best and be done with it.  And yes, you CAN make close renditions of your current model in the soga model.  Your attempt to recreate your character was rather sad.   You said you wanted bright fire red hair yet you show an image of a blonde. Those accessories like glasses and things of that nature really never should have been options for races in my opinion.  I would much rather glasses be available to all races in game as a helm option.  Of course, since those current models have those accessories it reduces the likelihood that the other races will ever get those options as helms in game.  EDIT:  I just looked at the CURRENT model set for female gnomes, there is NO FIRE RED hair color for the current gnomes.  [Removed for Content], are you complaining about with the hair color?  It is the same colors as the soga hair colors.  Except for the fact that in the soga the highlights actually mix and let you create more colors.  The Gnome CURRENT and SOGA models have the SAME color palette for hair.  Do you not know difference between red and blonde? <div></div><p><span class="time_text"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/icarus137/liar.jpg"> </span></p><p><span class="time_text"> </span></p><p>Message Edited by AbsentmindedMage on <span class=date_text>10-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:24 PM</span>

If the main concern is looking masculine, why did you choose to be ANY kind of elf?  Come On! ANYTHING but an elf!