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05-29-2006, 05:53 AM
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#61 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 33
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You can always try http://www.care-bears.com How do you gauge that our CC abilities were too powerful? Just curious, from your perspective. From my perspective, it's utter rubbish. Remember, we can't even mez/charm the majority of epic mobs. Charm was never that amazing to begin with, now it will just be crappy. For mez, we'll go from being able to mez 4-5 mobs to just 1. This is all on top of the DPS nerf (procs) we already suffered. I doubt these changes are or will be as noticeable at lower levels.They absolutely need to do something to give this class back some umph and make up for the recent nerfs.If you want to read cool ideas, check through the forum here, lots of threads already. |
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05-29-2006, 05:59 AM
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#62 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 62
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Oh thank you! I love care bears :smileysurprised: /roll I started a Troub because I level alot with a Troub from 50-60 and saw all the cool stuff they could do... Tank, CC, DPS. It was amazing utility and I thought it would be fun. I raid with a few troubs and there DPS is on par with what it should be. No probs with that.
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05-29-2006, 08:48 AM
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#63 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 256
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/SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry... I had to do it (I swore I would). You have no idea what we're talking about if you are only level 30. I know that probably sounds elitist, but really... I'm glad you'll never know what you're missing... and for your information, prior to their change of the class description, which only happened recently, part of our main description was about crowd control... the other two were power drain (BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) and buffing (Yes, that, we actually do). So originally (like the past year and a half or 2 years) at least 1/3 of our abilities were CC... Again... I apologize if it sounds elitist, but seriously, our best group/solo abilities are given to us at level 50, Since we got an upgrade at level 70 it wasn't until well AFTER KoS came out that they decided to take an axe to our CC's.... grrrrrrr
Message Edited by Jaimster on 05-29-2006 12:57 AM
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05-29-2006, 09:37 AM
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#64 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 62
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Thanks
 read the rest of my posts. I lvled from 50-60 (mostly) with a Trio of Inquisitor (me), Troub, and Wiz. From this experience of Troub tanking, CC, and DPS I decided that I wanted to start one (after DoF but prior KoS). Go scream elsewhere. I am disappointed that I am not going to be able to experience the current 50+ Troub but nothing I say will change this. The devs have stated its changing and you gotta just roll with it. Anyway, the point of my posts is to stop whining like a little girl and give the devs some suggestions on what to do with the class to make it viable (taking into consideration the stated CC changes). Edit: I'll just go back to lurking in this forum since it doesnt seem worth giving you guys some suggestions on how to best shape Troubadors. Message Edited by MrHell on 05-29-2006 04:41 PM |
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05-29-2006, 10:06 AM
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#65 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 116
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Unfortunately, you're right. I imagine even if the whole troubador community at large (seeing how small it is) canceled their subscriptions, it would have no effect whatsoever on this game's future, or how later changes would come into play. However, if this keeps up with each class getting their eyes poked out, eventually it will take its toll. You can't just take every bit of fun out of a game and expect people to stick around. |
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05-29-2006, 10:57 AM
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#66 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 360
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I raid with a few troubs and there DPS is on par with what it should be. No probs with that. I play a troub myself (currently only mid 30's) and am not worried by these changes. I agree that Troubs had too many powerful CC abilities and we shouldnt get anything to make up for these reductions.
If you say these things then you seriously don't know what your talking about.... Troubs get out DPS's by just about every class out there including clerics, yet you want to try saying that troub DPS is on par where it should be?? I was in SoS today playing my Lev 63 Troub and on average I was hitting aroung 250 DPS and getting out DPS by the guardian... Oh yeah, that is definaly on par... I supose the Fury that was doing 150-200 more DPS than me was on Par also?? yeah, right..... You also say you have a 30 Troub and that CC is too powerful, yet at level 30 you don't even have mez.... How can you possibly come here and tell us that something you don't even have is too powerful?? When was the last time you played your Troub? It's not even listed on your sig, so it must not be a character your really interested in... Sorry, but if all you want to do is come in here and call us all whiners (the point of my posts is to stop whining like a little girl), then please go elsewhere, while thoes of us concerned about the class try to prevent this horrid change from happening....
Gwern - 70 Assassin / Parody - 63 Troubador |
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05-29-2006, 11:25 AM
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#67 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 152
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Dear Mr. Hell,
I like your comments and ideas. Some of my suggestions to balance troubadors i like to put forward to the develloping team are: Make Inquisitors cloth wearers and take away most of their heals, their dps is ok. I play a level 2 Inquisitor and he owns the isle, someting just isnt right here. Take away assasins track and make it that they can only use their abilities at night (seems more appropriate). I dont play an assasin but i once grouped with one. Thnx again for your valuable input, keep it coming. |
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05-29-2006, 11:31 AM
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#68 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 253
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what i dont understand "MrHell"... is how your argument is that you hunt with a troub and know what they can do, and not see what you will be missing. you point out what great CC this troub is... failing to see that this will be cut down by up to 75% - mezzing 4 mobs down to 1. i am curious as to what godly weapons he uses to be such high DPS too. the bards role in any game has always been to sing lullabys that pacify or mez mobs, preventing them from doing damage to the group, even charming them to turn against their own allies for a short time. their songs offer insipration within their friends to do great things, aka more DPS to the group, faster regen of body and spirit, and the most common known trait: run speed. indirectly, yes, they are great DPS, but not in themselves.. their DPS lies within the sung inspiration of their group members. i welcome any true bard, seeing as im not one myself, and they must be higher than lvl 30..... to tell me that i am wrong and have no idea what im talking about. to say that the bards in this game are not being stripped of their core abilities is proof enough you know not what you speak of. |
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05-29-2006, 12:14 PM
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#69 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 116
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I have been a faithful customer & player since day 1. I have only a char, my troubie, just because i want to get everything of my class, i dont have any alts. It took me a week or so to decide who would i become in EQ2: i read every description about classes, races, everything i could find about spells, tactics, player feelings... that time invested was worth because it was going to be my impersonation in EQ2. There were 2 main reasons to become a troub: BUFFS, MEZZ I had to relearn my class from scratch when LU13 hit live. I have to admit that at that point, toubs WHERE overpowered due to buff stacking. Anyway i think that could be fixed without a total revamp of the class... but no complaints, at least our fellow dirges got a bit of lovin' As time went by (and a couple of nerf bat hitting), i saw how every single class start to do EVERYTHING better than me... better buffs, better debuffs, better DPS... well, i was a little [Removed for Content] about that, but you know what?? i didnt care a **** Why? BECAUSE I HAD FUN WITH MY TROUB. The people who i play with know that my dps sucks, i play lots of time with a coercer, so power regen is not an issue, i also play with a brigand, so dont tell me that our debuffs rule, pls i am not stupid. K, so it's not because my dps, nor my buffs, debuffs... hell, the only thing that keeps me playing is that stupid CC!! And i am talking regular grouping CC, wich is a couple of adds sometimes. The coercer who i play with, lets me get CC duties just because he can outdamage me anytime with a couple of keypresses. And a couple of adds is something every group can handle without CC, btw... The truth is that i've become quite good at CC, even with our limitations, using every single spell in our arsenal. That was about grouping, in raids i could be easily dual boxed, since i only do something after a wipe  and that is cast the buffs. REst of the time i could only autoattack, just to feel i'm doing something to earn that loot. The truth is that noone notice if we debuff, although i tend to do it, to consume some power i dont want to feel like a slaker.So basically, by stealing our CC abilities, our group play will be fair similar to our raid play, wich is completely boring. I dont want to comment on our solo play, just because it sucks so much that i really think it is a joke from an evil dev. Just keep screwing my class up so noone plays it again, looks like that is your master plan and you are doing it really well. When LU24 test patch notes were post on the forums my game time decayed like 80%. Now it has been like 9 days without playing. I will wait to quit till you release it live, something i know you will do, no matter what we say.
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05-29-2006, 04:05 PM
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#70 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
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+1 Mulillla. We play the same. Day 1. No Alts. Fun and loyal group. LU13. Raid. CC. I just found my alter ego on another server . Thanks for this post
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05-29-2006, 05:20 PM
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#71 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 256
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05-29-2006, 05:44 PM
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#72 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 825
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By the way, after LU24, a swashie will be close to a troubs CC, and better at tank and DPS, you might want to check those out.
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05-29-2006, 06:13 PM
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#73 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 31
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Guess the truth hurts... posts gets deleted. Baaa baaa goes the sheep that follow every whim of these toolbags....
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Ranthor Troub Trainer Aftermath!! aka The Tribunal... |
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05-29-2006, 06:33 PM
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#74 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 67
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EXACLTY. This is the most disturbing part of this live update.
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05-29-2006, 06:41 PM
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#75 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 67
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Make that triplets. This is me to a T.
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05-29-2006, 07:21 PM
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#76 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 36
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Charm and Mez were why people would look at my class with excitement and want to play one. It is what I do in groups when things get hairy. After LU24, what will be our defining feature that will make people say, "I want to play a troubador so that I can ________!". Fill in the blank. Not crowd control, not dps, and buffs are no reason anyone would want to play a class for 70 levels. What is it we do that makes people want to choose a troub?
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05-29-2006, 07:54 PM
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#77 |
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General
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 156
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the question is WHY these changes? troubys are one of the least played classes They were half chanters, before they stealth nerfed the class description. Isnt that a decent reason to be sad/mad/furious/fed up with the game? its like not telling guardians they were becoming cloth wearing dps ... i wonder how would feel a trouby on a 2 month break when he comes back. Well most troubs chose the class because they were half chanters, because they were getting LIMITED crowd control. ( and run speed ) Ruining a rare class in hoping of rearranging combat issues??? what kind of excuse is that? you can make some mobs harder, but that is not a very WoW direction is it? here are some ideas : leave the CC as it is as the three subclasses who have those abilities are the least played. we are nowhere close to a chantys CC abilities no second line of mez if the first one is broken/resisted to insta cast another one no group mez no epic mez And you still dare to say its overpowered?game breaking? Are they saying they didnt intend to put some CC abilities in eq2? they wanted to find a way for a group to handle adds without the old mez system ( notice the term mez wasnt used in the begining in eq2 if i remember well ) but then why make chanters better CC and troubadOUrs even worse? I dont even feel like talking about the charm.... there are 25 troubs,200 scouts, on the 999 lvl 70 players on permafrost , yep too many players in those classes, they had to find a way to push players back to the other classes noticed anything else? how they try to be subtle on the changes so other players dont get freaked out on the LU notes? drasticly reduced -> it sure is scary saying reduced by 7min and 22 seconds set to 6 seconds -> is it so hard to say reduced from 8 sec to 6? Are they taking us for folks even more stupid than wha we are? They needed to look on our AAs , i m hoping to see if 1point or 4 in allegro will still have the same effect on most spells They needed to look at our buffs, nope neither there They managed to "fix" the only things that were working .... Anyway seeing how you must not have high level feedback on your game, here are some ideas Give some single target buffs, more powerfull than the group ones , add something else than power depletion on PvE, like power drain ( shouldnt be that hard to do ) as our buffs in high end gaming are just a sprinkle of cinnamon to add a bit of flavor on a cinnamon stuffed cake : you can easily reach our buffs with a few items ( defense / mellee and casting skills ) you can easily add a lot more resists than the spells we have with some easy to get items we add some dps to sky rocketting dps class a ranger wont cry on 20% haste, but his self buffs are far more powerfull, and who else needs a haste spell other than dps mellee classes? sure hasten the wizard he ll love hitting with his stick... a wizi wont mind having a 350 mental damage proc on a 10k crit hit The requieme of reflection song is rarely used, here again, wonder why? make it a fixed % chance of reflecting a spell , or with a limited number of reflections Anything usefull that is, thats what you could ask of a class defining skill Now i'm just waiting for them to say our speed buff is too high my 2 copper, Teldea
Message Edited by Triag on 05-29-2006 12:37 PM Message Edited by Triag on 05-29-2006 12:44 PM |
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05-29-2006, 07:55 PM
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#78 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 110
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Looking at the current class description, SOE surely seem to think it is enough. I cannot really envision the designers of one of the major online games just redesigning a class based on their own personal whims. SOE will also be looking at the numbers of troubadours on the servers and deducing that they are very low. So, obviously people are not happy with the class. SOE must have more hard facts than we do, because they seem to have decided the class is unpopular, because it is too complicated and difficult to play. Their research must have shown them, that the troubadour class will become more popular with players, if it is reduced to a buff bot class. Hence, the quite up-front class description. I guess there are multitudes waiting to create one of these new troubadours, so losing some of us old-timers, who liked the complexity of the class, is a calculated trade-off for SOE. I am personally astonished at the fact, that there is an audience for this type of buff bot class. Maybe there are more dual-boxers around than I thought. |
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05-29-2006, 08:13 PM
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#79 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 16
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The new description for the troubadours is just plain silly, the 'addition' to it doesn't even describe the class. They may well add that "popular" line to all calss descriptions:Make the dirge description say that they are popular with melee. Oh! And be sure to include "And the warden/fury/templar/inquisitor/mystic/defiler is popular with all classes because of their healing/warding abilities!" Also "The guardian is particularly popular in raid-tanking situations because of (whatever) abilities."/sighs and shakes head
Message Edited by plutek on 05-29-2006 11:14 AM |
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05-29-2006, 08:31 PM
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#80 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 13
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oh my goodness, that has been my mantra recently...i swear! i personally love grouping with chanters, and i agree they could use a little bit of love in the updates (since they are somewhat underbalanced, but not near as underbalanced as us). however, why not actually GIVE to a class for once, instead of taking away? they could have just increased the chanters effectiveness, making everyone happy. i seriously doubt people would have started the "nerf chanters" witch hunt. BUT NO! that would actually make the poor addicted paying customers happy! instead of giving chanters a boost, soe decides to dumb everyone else down, making their charm/mez skills virtually useless. if you don't ever use cc, that's your play style...more power to you. however, don't tell all of us who DO use it that we're stupid for doing so, or that they're completely unecessary, or that they're overpowered. true, we USED to have mediocre dps before they "fixed" the proc rates on aria (again, because of a problem with the chanters). so (as has been stated previously in five billion posts) we're reduced to buffing...at least until the next lu, when i'm sure they'll nerf those as well. =P all that aside, i still love my troub, and i'm not going to cancel my account. hopefully soe will see the error of their ways and fix us sometime soon. *crosses fingers* take care!!!
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05-29-2006, 08:40 PM
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#81 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 16
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*blinks and giggles at the signature above* Message Edited by plutek on 05-29-2006 11:40 AM |
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05-29-2006, 09:59 PM
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#82 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17
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I have nothing new to say that hasn't been said in the above 80 or more posts. I'm posting to show my support of the issues that are being brought up here.
What I see happening is the same thing that has happened in the past, Sony keeps nerfing until they take every last bit of fun out of a game. While the Devs says this is what's best for the game, I disagree. Look at how many players are up in arms about these changes, perhaps the devs are wrong. Just maybe the players play this game as much if not more than you do and know how it is to play these classes on a daily basis. What I suggest to Sony and it's Devs is to listen to the issues that the players bring up. We are your customers and decide ultimately if EQ2 is what we want to play for our past time. |
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05-29-2006, 10:34 PM
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#83 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 256
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The most astonishing thing to me is how these issues have brought out people who never or rarely every post... ever. That in itself should say something... I don't think I have ever seen as many posts by "Newbie" posters as I have in the past few weeks. Thanks for the support guys
It's a shame it was a negative issue that brought you all out.
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05-30-2006, 12:36 AM
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#84 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 36
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Well it was reading the release notes which brought me here, for sure. I just made 50 a few weeks back, and could not believe how the world opened up. After 49 levels of doing less and less, suddenly I could make groups glad they invited a troub. I got comments from people with baby troubs that they were looking forward to leveling theirs up! I could FINALLY SOLO WRITS without horrendous downtime! In my mind, troubs were right up there with the other scout classes for utility. I might not do much DPS but look what else I can do! Then I read about the upcoming LU and started working on my Inquisitor again. But dammit. I love being a troub. Back in EQ1 in the OLD OLD days, you could be a useful bard in a group by just sitting in a corner with power song running. Then they decided to give bards a boost, with Fading Memories, wonderful lulls, charms, AEs and so on. Though difficult to play, EQ1 bards were one of the most rewarding classes if you stuck with it. But now WE'RE being nerfed so that you might as well be an EQ1 bard trying to solo by melee with Psalm of Veeshan running. Waiting for the other shoe to drop, where they tell us what they're giving us to compensate. Give us better tanking and dps and I'll call it even. Make our AEs do warlock damage or debuff encounters vastly. But don't you dare take away the very reason people play troubs and give us nothing in return.
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05-30-2006, 02:44 AM
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#85 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 540
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That appears to be the plan. You can try a beta-buffed troub on test and be the only one on the server most of the time. Rare crafted armor/jewelry and all adept III's, not the gear I'd pick, but it's standard scout gear so gives minimal int/wis and solid melee stats.2.5s to cast charm, 8s before the mob turns and you can try to get it mezzed at least before it kills you, which takes another 1.5s, so you're not doing much for 12s (assuming no resists or interrupts) and presumably have another mob beating on you all that time that you were trying to get the charm to help with. In most cases, you're nearly dead anyway and now can't mez the original for 20s, but you DO have 24s to try and kill the original mob now before the mezzed one joins in again. So, kick in the uber DPS and... revive.If it's to be "adjusted" that much, just replace it with something else. It's just hotbar filler with no real usefulness.At least on test you can try other classes and see what skills they have at 70. I'm thinking there's going to be a lot more rogues around. Message Edited by Kasar on 05-29-2006 03:55 PM |
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05-30-2006, 02:49 AM
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#86 |
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General
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5
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My main character's name is Echo, and I play on the Crushbone server. My account is almost 750 days old, and I've logged well over 2400 hours in game. In addition, I have a 70 Inquisitor and a 65 SK that I have also leveled personally. As I have stated in the past, I understand the need for balance and for change. I also wanted to take a moment to thank Lockeye for making himself a target and acknowledging that the bard community still exists; however, I cannot fathom how the designers think that we will be placated with yet another "rewrite" to our core toolset. Along with many others, I created my bard and chose to become a troubadour because they have the mez ability. In the early days, this was a difficult choice because of the dirges having rez and the coveted run speed. My real life friends and I built a leveling group that would compliment one another, and to my dismay, it was melee heavy. Along came the live update, and in one sweeping blow, I became useful to casters and able still able to contribute (on a lesser) scale to my normal exp group. I rolled with the changes. On down the line, due to another class benefiting from proc changes, the proc system was balanced. This did reduce my personal DPS significantly, but I could still see benefit grouped with casters on raids. Although I wasn't happy about it, I rolled with the changes. Yet again, I find myself facing another negative change to the class which defines my playstyle. I won't argue that the illusionists and coercers didn't need some love, because I know that they do. What I don't understand is this rampant paranoia that a "scout" class with the ability to "lock down" mobs is overpowered. I've played long enough to know how to push the limits of my class, and anyone that talks about locking down 4 mobs isn't living in reality unless you're talking about charming one and mezzing three. Again, that's a very unusual situation, and all it takes is one resist, a bad break, or a moronic AoE to turn that situation into a disaster. On a similar note, I AM a scout class and should be able to DPS. I can tell you from parsing my DPS, including my procs from others, I don't rank unless I toggle buffs and "force" procs which renders my debuffs useless. I won't go into my DPS versus Enchanter DPS as it's sad and I have nothing but respect for my brothers and sisters in the game. Now I am not going to ask to use poison, modify my DPS, or abandon your dreams of balance, but consider this: Crushbone (a well-populated server) has 36 level 70 troubadour, 28 level 70 coercers, and 28 level 70 illusionists. Take into account the fact that I personally know that several of the troubadours are simply boxed buffbots. What are the odds on being able to have an active crowd controller for a pick-up group with the current system? With decreased ability you've just eliminated over 1/3 of the available crowd controllers. Add in the inevitable few people who react poorly and quit the game. Now, you're probably starting to approach 1/2 of the crowd controllers. That may or may not be an exaggeration, but I am sure you can see where I am going. With hundreds of the other classes online at anytime, what harm is there in allowing such a small subset of the population to retain this skillset? I'll leave you with this thought, and you can feel free to pass it on. In post after post and quote after quote, you perpetuate the desire for long-term success of the game and the need to alter things in the short-term to accomplish this. When you have people like myself, who are long-time multi-account subscriber telling you that the changes you are making don't make sense in the short or the long term. Think about the message this sends. We are the people who keep the game running because we love the game and we love playing it. We ARE the long term of the game. When the vast majority of the bell curve falls a certain way, maybe...just maybe....they might be onto something. Please consider these actions before imposing them on the Troubadour Class. And again thank you for posting.... Echo lvl 70 Troubadour Crushbone Officer of Disciples of Evil __________________________________ Luca lvl 70 Inquisitor lvl 63 Jeweler Crushbone Castille lvl 65 Shadowknight lvl 64 Woodworker Crushbone |
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05-30-2006, 04:14 AM
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#87 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 67
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Well written post, Echo. I think you speak for most of us as to the state of our class.
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05-30-2006, 04:44 AM
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#88 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 256
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Thanks for posting Echo
Very well put...
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05-30-2006, 06:47 AM
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#89 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4
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Completely redesigning classes years after release.... dumbing down the playability.... Sounds just like SOEs stupid decision to completely revamp and dumb down Star Wars Galaxies. I shut down all my Sony accounts when that happened and only came back to EQ2 a couple months ago at the coaxing of my wife, now I wonder why I did. Maybe it's time to go back to my necro or assassin.
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Gruesome Demise - Level 47 Erudite Assassin Outcast, Destroyer of Undead - Level 40 Dwarven Necromancer Blakeney Brummell - Level 30 Dwarven Troubadour |
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05-30-2006, 05:34 PM
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#90 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 144
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The charm thing still bugs me. Is anyone actually AT the level of the spell to see how a non-red con examine looks? Is it still 8 seconds or less? I know I've seen examine info be way off what is real because I can't use the spell or item cause of level or class. I suspect (or maybe I hope) this is the case with the info we are seeing about our charm spells.
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read the rest of my posts. I lvled from 50-60 (mostly) with a Trio of Inquisitor (me), Troub, and Wiz. From this experience of Troub tanking, CC, and DPS I decided that I wanted to start one (after DoF but prior KoS). Go scream elsewhere.