Whats Up With The Tank Pet Nerf? Is HE Considered DPS? [Removed for Content] - Page 2

Purita · 05-15-2006, 09:01 PM

That wizard must SUCK [Removed for Content], tell him app 2 spells don't cut it. I don't care what you say he sucks or your lying, 7 lvls and the same Dps differential is bull.h.t

raven0 · 05-15-2006, 10:30 PM

Puritain wrote:

That wizard must SUCK [Removed for Content], tell him app 2 spells don't cut it. I don't care what you say he sucks or your lying, 7 lvls and the same Dps differential is bull.h.t

I agree, it sounds fabricated, or maybe the wizard had to limit his DPS due to the pets bad aggro management.

Za · 05-16-2006, 12:08 AM

raven098 wrote:
Puritain wrote:
That wizard must SUCK [Removed for Content], tell him app 2 spells don't cut it. I don't care what you say he sucks or your lying, 7 lvls and the same Dps differential is bull.h.t

I agree, it sounds fabricated, or maybe the wizard had to limit his DPS due to the pets bad aggro management.

Yes, this is actually one of the big advantages of necros. The wizards really do have to watch their damage more than a necro doing the same amount of overall damage does. A necro generating 1500 points of damage, but divided amount pets will generate less hate than a wizard doing 1000 from pure DD. This is one of the less noticable advantages summoners have and never concider when looking at balance.

Za · 05-16-2006, 12:12 AM

KBern wrote:
Zald wrote:
We're a sum of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts type class. Meaning that a necro and his pet should not be even remotely as good as a wizard and a tank duoing,
You ever watch a wizard or warlock solo, ever watch a monk/bruiser or zerker solo?
We are not even close to matching the duo's, let alone even them solo with some solo encounters.
Our tank pets were not overpowered in any way at all.
A creative necro can kill some high lvl mobs solo IF everything goes right, but I am not sure about your spells, but master fear and master root are resisted alot and as soon as dmg is done they break...there is no fast refresh or stacking on the mob to keep it under control.
Guildies are always amazed at stuff they read here, and then watch the tank pets in action with a healer in the group...ask any healer who has tried to have a necro/conj pet stand in for a tank....they hate it and would choose a real tank in an instant...no questions asked. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying...just ask healer.

Yes, I know a TON of wizards and warlocks. In both cases I solo better than the avg siz/warlock wearing avg gear, and only a little bit worse than the best I've met. Monks I haven't watched solo much, but just grouping with a Monk MT, I can tell they're ubber. But as I've said before. I'm not going to [Removed for Content] and moan becasue another clase if broken worse than me. I also know that I solo better than the other 14 classes in the game... so your mentioning 1 or 2 that are better really is meaningless. Esp when wiz/war are only marginally better, and if a wiz/war screws up... they die! Its great fun seeing a wiz war soloing out of their league and having a root fail... splat, corse respawns... I have FD and I have pets, I seldom die unless I push it too far, but options are our advantage.

DarkNef · 05-16-2006, 12:51 AM

Honestly our Tank pets are near worthless tanks as is and our heals on the pets are so pathetic they make no diffrence most of the time as I can self heal myself takning the ^^^ greens better then I can hurt myself healing my stupid tank pet, lol, I only use him due to the AA path that lets him intercept damage sometimes, I find myself lifetap tanking most mobs includeing heroics lately.

This inc nerf is pointless to us anyway as The only reason we Do so much damage is we have loads non-stop DPS on Raid mobs and it adds up, they are gonna kill our pets down some, and were still gonna be doing T1 DPS ON MOBS WITH LOTS OF HPS ONLY not on normal group stuff, Parsers are retarted and inaccurate way to say nerf this class its overpowered, A players Skill and Gear and Combos they use highly contribute to how much dps they do over another person, how many procs do they have? how much damage boosters do they have? are they in a group with someone that greatly increases their DPS?

You CAN'T PUT classes in DPS teirs and balance them off that.

They are not just takeing one class and looking at it, they are takeing us both down as equals and the way our DPS and Conjurers work is a bit diffrent, Onslaught of DDS and AEs, Vs Damage over times, I still wanna know why they gave Conjurers Planeshift (Scout pet) and us Undead Tide (almost worthless dps till they make it use Essenses of anguish) if they did not want summoners to do a Heck of a lot of Damage over time without much mana consumption.

I mean if they are SO worried about us doing so much damage on raids through our pets, why not reduce pets damage vs epic mobs rather then just Kill the pets to almost worthlessness with nerf after nerf to them. It would fix one problem without adding to another for us necros, because in a group a 10k DDs gonna do more then 300 damage a tick dot to the mob and by the time we get another dot off mobs dead at least we have our pets to say were actully doing something!

-Neffy

PARSERS ARE THE DEVIL! Just a way to mesure ones E-.... you know!

DarkNef · 05-16-2006, 12:55 AM

I mean, I can Adapt, but these Nerfs in this update are silly none the less because there are better ways of fixing problems then Killing classes and abilitys down, and that goes for any class not just us!

kenji · 05-16-2006, 08:43 AM

that wiz doesnt suck, what suck is that Tank Pet keep losing aggro to the Wiz, so the Wiz getting beat and couldnt do as much DPS as the class can be. shame to tank pet indeed.

Cecil_Stri · 05-16-2006, 10:59 AM

Zald explains it perfectly.

Allowen · 05-16-2006, 01:01 PM

I got a master lv 66 master pet with lv70 master defense instance buff and I barely hold agro off me, depending what I will try to kill using this pet I need to burn the mob fast before pet dies(pet for around 14k hp) because the super low mitigation/avoidace it has.

The nerf on dps will make me need to use my agro decrease procing robe( I forgot the name ) full time then to see if I can keep agro on pet so i can burn the mobs fast before pet dies...... already a pain to keep recasting pets because it takes a year to recover hp back and it is just better to remake it.

This game is starting to make pets so useless like on EQ1 that I had in there(also doing it in here atm) to build my avoidance as high and I could and lifetab tank with a dps pet to help me kill mob as quickly as possible since even as a caster I could tank/evade better then the pets I had......I am sad about conjurors trying to chain kill mobs with the super weak inc warrior pet or with the decreased dps scout pet, I am realy sad for then as a necro that I play.

If the point is to limit the number of mob(s) and the speed that some class can kill then maybe it is time to add summoner mobs and root/snare immune creatures from EQ1 to come to Eq2 ?

Allowen

necromancer of MM server

Lords of the triple moons guild

Za · 05-16-2006, 10:06 PM

Allowen:Sheesh! What are you truing to solo. Your post is EXTREMELY without merrit without that bit of information? Yes, vs ^^^ white or better mobs this is true. You really have to stun and use other damage mitigation strats to solo that kind of stuff. But vs anything less, the tank pet is fine.And no, the point is to lower the overall DPS we can do across the board with our scout pet and specifically vs raid mobs. And to lower our DPS when we're supposed to be taking a more defensive posture... ie using a warrior pet in def stance. I'm going to assume that you're one of those people that thinks soloing bust entail white or yellow ^^^ named mobs to be "rewarding", anything less than that and you think EQ2 is hurting soloers. hehe

Kelader · 05-17-2006, 04:13 AM

Who the F stole my Name wrote:

today in lavastorm, we had a 3 person group.

38 fury

40 necro (me)

47 wizard.

the fury was posting parses after most fights, and in almost every fight, i tied with, often beating by a substantial margin, the 7 levels higher wizard.

That was with my tank pet serving as the group tank. And only at apprentice 1 too.

We were fighting encounters of 3 level 42 ^'s, encounters of 2 ^^'s and encounters of 1 ^^^'s

However the wizard beat my dps every time when we did non heroics, because of the shorter length of the fights.

It seemed to be that i had an advantage in longer fights, as it should be, but to outdo a wizard that was 7 levels higher, seemed a bit .. off.

O and, the pet lost aggro several times every fight, often not getting it back again. Always to the wizard as well, never lost aggro to me. So ..... Give us more taunting! :smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by Who the F stole my Name on 05-13-2006 02:00 PM

How hard to you think a 47 wizard can go with that tank?

Errie_Tholluxe · 05-17-2006, 05:27 PM

Zald wrote:Allowen:Sheesh! What are you truing to solo. Your post is EXTREMELY without merrit without that bit of information? Yes, vs ^^^ white or better mobs this is true. You really have to stun and use other damage mitigation strats to solo that kind of stuff. But vs anything less, the tank pet is fine.And no, the point is to lower the overall DPS we can do across the board with our scout pet and specifically vs raid mobs. And to lower our DPS when we're supposed to be taking a more defensive posture... ie using a warrior pet in def stance. I'm going to assume that you're one of those people that thinks soloing bust entail white or yellow ^^^ named mobs to be "rewarding", anything less than that and you think EQ2 is hurting soloers. hehe

Gonna have to take issue with this. With a master buffs and master pet, 4 points in barrier and 4 in uproar it cant take the mobs in SoS that are ^^^blue and in the way for my Claymore quest without at least a partner, preferable either a dps or a healer. I can watch it get hit for more damage than I myself take against the mob, which aint much, even with a bunch of fabled T7 gear. Is it possible? Yes, with a LOT of work. Now I understand this is heroic content, but heck, if I RAN AWAY it wouldnt last 10 seconds against a ^^^ green. For some proof I went up to Bonemire and hit up a variety of blue no arrows. They routinely hit my pet hard and heavy, sometimes for 1/4 of its hit points in a shot. Note these are NO arrow blue singles. Dont believe me give it a shot. When I am raiding I often use the scout pet, but more often now, I find myself using the tank and the anti aoe from the stamina line, because its just more mana efficient than recasting the dang thing after every Aoe, and I am sure a lot of others do too. As for lowering our DPS when we are using our tank in defensive, heck the only time I do THAT is soloing. When I solo, [Removed for Content] should I be required to root a mob and recast my pet because it gets its butt handed to it by mobs 8 lvls lower? What , exactly is the point with that? If you look at the posts, you'll see..most of us wouldnt care if the tank pet COULDNT HIT ANYTHING AT ALL as long as it held agro and didnt die so dang fast. Nowhere does that entail name farming or hitting up white or yellow ^^^'s , thats just the trash that roams around. Now before you go tearing into me, you dunno your class etc, I can solo just fine atm, and in fact do almost exclusively when not raiding. I'm just tired of pets losing agro, dying because they're wimps and generally making me into a warlock without the fast dps.

Druzgotek · 05-17-2006, 08:50 PM

Well said, tank pet holds aggro worse than the scout pet. My tank pet is m1, and my scout pet is a3, rest of my spells are a3.

Za · 05-17-2006, 11:56 PM

Druzgotek wrote:
You should apply for a job with SOE as a developer, zald. You would fit right in.

I already work in the industry. But yeah I fit in cuz I can think without having to stand up so my brain can breath.If you don't like the game QUIT. but to sit there and comlpain about the people doing their jobs is stu-pid! I know your job flipping burgers is tough for you, but not everyone has a job thats so straight forward.

Za · 05-18-2006, 12:09 AM

Errie_Tholluxe wrote:
Zald wrote:Allowen:Sheesh! What are you truing to solo. Your post is EXTREMELY without merrit without that bit of information? Yes, vs ^^^ white or better mobs this is true. You really have to stun and use other damage mitigation strats to solo that kind of stuff. But vs anything less, the tank pet is fine.And no, the point is to lower the overall DPS we can do across the board with our scout pet and specifically vs raid mobs. And to lower our DPS when we're supposed to be taking a more defensive posture... ie using a warrior pet in def stance. I'm going to assume that you're one of those people that thinks soloing bust entail white or yellow ^^^ named mobs to be "rewarding", anything less than that and you think EQ2 is hurting soloers. hehe
Gonna have to take issue with this. With a master buffs and master pet, 4 points in barrier and 4 in uproar it cant take the mobs in SoS that are ^^^blue and in the way for my Claymore quest without at least a partner, preferable either a dps or a healer. I can watch it get hit for more damage than I myself take against the mob, which aint much, even with a bunch of fabled T7 gear. Is it possible? Yes, with a LOT of work. Now I understand this is heroic content, but heck, if I RAN AWAY it wouldnt last 10 seconds against a ^^^ green. For some proof I went up to Bonemire and hit up a variety of blue no arrows. They routinely hit my pet hard and heavy, sometimes for 1/4 of its hit points in a shot. Note these are NO arrow blue singles. Dont believe me give it a shot. When I am raiding I often use the scout pet, but more often now, I find myself using the tank and the anti aoe from the stamina line, because its just more mana efficient than recasting the dang thing after every Aoe, and I am sure a lot of others do too. As for lowering our DPS when we are using our tank in defensive, heck the only time I do THAT is soloing. When I solo, [Removed for Content] should I be required to root a mob and recast my pet because it gets its butt handed to it by mobs 8 lvls lower? What , exactly is the point with that? If you look at the posts, you'll see..most of us wouldnt care if the tank pet COULDNT HIT ANYTHING AT ALL as long as it held agro and didnt die so dang fast. Nowhere does that entail name farming or hitting up white or yellow ^^^'s , thats just the trash that roams around. Now before you go tearing into me, you dunno your class etc, I can solo just fine atm, and in fact do almost exclusively when not raiding. I'm just tired of pets losing agro, dying because they're wimps and generally making me into a warlock without the fast dps.

Hey... I'd love to come watch you play. Post your name and server and I'll make a char just to do that.My scout can solo a blue no arrow mob without my intervention AT ALL. Yeah the tank takes more damage vs that same mob becasue the tank hits weak, but if I cast 2 taps, the mobs dead and the tanks 98% HPts.I solo ^^^ mobs in SoS when I need to, yes its a pain, the mobs do hit hard. ^^ blue mobs are MUCH easier though. both are heroic, ones just harder for our pets to handle. So what? Green ^^^... If you leave your pet, the pet dies... OMG what a concept. Our pets REQUIRE our assistance. Our pets are NOT the class, the necro deffines the class, the pet is just a tool. When used properly its a darn fine tool that allows us to solo those blue ^^^, and grouped ^^ mobs. It allows us to run from combat when we need to. It allows us to do damage, power free, while focusing our attentions on other aspects of our class if need be (like CC, or healing, or power transfer, or general combat management). It a decoy when need be, its a tank when need be, its extra DPS when need be (melee and non melee, we get both), its a disposable HT eater for pulls, its a power batter for us personally when we're low... Its sickening that you don't understand the point of pets in EQ2, they are NOT supposed to be a perma duo partners! If you want a duo partner, get a second account! The Necro class is supposed to be made whole by the intrensic powers of the necromancer PLUS the utility & flexability of the pets he has at his disposal.

Errie_Tholluxe · 05-18-2006, 04:23 AM

Zald wrote:Hey... I'd love to come watch you play. Post your name and server and I'll make a char just to do that.My scout can solo a blue no arrow mob without my intervention AT ALL. Yeah the tank takes more damage vs that same mob becasue the tank hits weak, but if I cast 2 taps, the mobs dead and the tanks 98% HPts.I solo ^^^ mobs in SoS when I need to, yes its a pain, the mobs do hit hard. ^^ blue mobs are MUCH easier though. both are heroic, ones just harder for our pets to handle. So what? Green ^^^... If you leave your pet, the pet dies... OMG what a concept. Our pets REQUIRE our assistance. Our pets are NOT the class, the necro deffines the class, the pet is just a tool. When used properly its a darn fine tool that allows us to solo those blue ^^^, and grouped ^^ mobs. It allows us to run from combat when we need to. It allows us to do damage, power free, while focusing our attentions on other aspects of our class if need be (like CC, or healing, or power transfer, or general combat management). It a decoy when need be, its a tank when need be, its extra DPS when need be (melee and non melee, we get both), its a disposable HT eater for pulls, its a power batter for us personally when we're low... Its sickening that you don't understand the point of pets in EQ2, they are NOT supposed to be a perma duo partners! If you want a duo partner, get a second account! The Necro class is supposed to be made whole by the intrensic powers of the necromancer PLUS the utility & flexability of the pets he has at his disposal.

All true. What I was taking issue with is that the tank pet is fine as is. Its not, and hasnt been since the big patch that messed up agro with rending line and the previous one that lost us all our mitigation on him. His agro gen has never been the same since, and his mitigation is worse than a troub thats afk. I can KILL the stuff , even links, with trouble. Having to WORRY about my DoTs taking agro, or having to root a mob and let a pet heal for 5 minutes because it just got one shotted for half its health just aint right. As far as my concerns with the scout pet, you have a valid arguement. I can find blues that it can sit and wail on with no help. They're all caster mobs generally for some reason. The monk types eat her up, no problem, so maybe the issue there is TYPE of mob? My issue with the tank dying as i run, aint that it dies, its that it dies so quick I may as well take it along for the ride :smileytongue: Take your pet over to kill the BIxie Queen on Bixie Island and try to get it to hold agro and stay alive. Royal PITA for a mob that much lower than pets level. As far as coming to watch me, heck Everfrost, Sabutai Apropos, Deaths Door, I aint worried bout proving it :smileysurprised:

Deila · 05-18-2006, 04:58 AM

Errie_Tholluxe wrote:

I can KILL the stuff , even links, with trouble. Having to WORRY about my DoTs taking agro, or having to root a mob and let a pet heal for 5 minutes because it just got one shotted for half its health just aint right. As far as my concerns with the scout pet, you have a valid arguement. I can find blues that it can sit and wail on with no help. They're all caster mobs generally for some reason. The monk types eat her up, no problem, so maybe the issue there is TYPE of mob?

I'd noticed this too. Tank pets have a much easier time with caster mobs than melee ones. One answer I found was in tank pet CAs - Graven Breath and Graven Frenzy both stifle, and Graven Vanquishing fears - all of which can mess caster mobs up more than melee ones. Second answer in the defensive stance. Whereas our pets get 0 mitigation against physical damage, the defensive stance effects bullets show an increase in mitigation against magical damage.

Now, that said... I think part of the problems with pet tanking comes from a change in the defensive stance.

I could've sworn that back before the tank pet aggro problems and him getting the snot kicked out of him, that our defensive stance mitigated against physical, not magical, damage. Wish I'd been taking screenshots of spells and such back then - I only have my memory on that, and one piece of additional evidence, that was found in the stance descriptions itself until very recently (and may still be present on live servers - I'm not sure exactly when this most recent change to stance descriptions took place).

Since the pet problems, I noticed that the stance bulleted that it increased mitigation of target vs. all magical damage, but the descriptive text at the top clearly still said that it increased their resistance to trauma. Trauma is physical damage, not magical. I'd /bugged that in game on Test, saying that the magical mitigation was probably in error with the descriptive text and the way the stance had always worked previously. And now, looking today, I see the descriptive text changed to say that it increases spell resistances, not trauma anymore.

So, I believe that was a big part of what changed with our tank pets ability to take hits. Physical mitigation was removed, but the defensive stance physical damage mitigation was also later changed to magical mitigation, resulting in us seeing two stages where our tank pets got progressively worse at taking hits. And in the meantime, is showing an increased ability to take out caster mobs.

Za · 05-18-2006, 06:23 AM

Given... last 2 posts I agree with. The pet tank is weak vs certain mob types. Others it dominates. Scout is the same way.

Errie_Tholluxe · 05-18-2006, 11:05 AM

Aye, exactly. Now I dont mind so much switching out for like an area, and even then, I probably would just suffer thru..but it truly pains me to watch the poor thing made into a snack so quick :smileyindifferent:. In EQ1 it was quite clear flat out that the pet was a doorstop, and a cheap one at that. Here I was under the disillusionment that the pet was supposed to be more of a companion than a doorstop, and just wish it could reflect that. I have no wish to be a two-person soloist or groupist, and i understand in a lot of situations groupwise atm, thats pretty much what we are. Get a necro with a scout pet, tis ALMOST like getting a semi sorta equipped Assassin, and yup , knew that wouldnt last. Problem is finding that happy solo medium with pets across the board. Raid wise, I just drag out the tank, hit Unflinching Servant and never look back, just more efficient on the whole, my worries lie more in the solo aspect of it all.

Errie_Tholluxe · 05-18-2006, 11:10 AM

Oh and to answer your one question up there, on live currently Grisly Bulwark Master I reads:When target is damaged this spell will cast Grisly Feedback on targets attacker *inflicts 64 damage *heals caster for 21 Decreases INT by 138 Decreases Attack Speed by 25% Increases Max Health by 16% Increases Hate Gain by 49% Increases Mitigation of target vs all magical damage by 1120 So your right, where once it was physical damage it is now magical.

Deila · 05-18-2006, 12:09 PM

Yeah, I'd noticed that part some time ago, when I /bugged it on Test. The part I was wondering about was whether or not the descriptive text (the blurb stuff at the top of the examine window) still said that it increased trauma resistance, on live, since I'd only noticed that change here on Test tonight. Could easily have slipped past me though. I don't check every spell description daily to see if something's different without good reason to. SMILEY

Tokam · 05-18-2006, 12:50 PM

Zald wrote:

I already work in the industry. But yeah I fit in cuz I can think without having to stand up so my brain can breath.

If you don't like the game QUIT. but to sit there and comlpain about the people doing their jobs is stu-pid!

I know your job flipping burgers is tough for you, but not everyone has a job thats so straight forward.

If you are going to insult the necromancer community on these forums could you first please gain at least a rudimentary grasp of the English language. How old are you?

But going back to the OP - yes I am worried about the aggro holding abilities of the tank pet. To be honest it is about as useless now as the offensive pets used to be - and we all know how long it took to see a fix for those...

Druzgotek · 05-18-2006, 08:37 PM

I just want tank pet to hold aggro very VERY well. So I can relax when I use it. This does not mean I want it to do good dps, or tank triple up mobs. I just want it to be awesome aggro holder of mobs starting from group of three double down arrow mobs and ending in one no arrow mob. Right now it fails in this.

Za · 05-18-2006, 09:36 PM

Sulpeel wrote:
Zald wrote:

I already work in the industry. But yeah I fit in cuz I can think without having to stand up so my brain can breath.

If you don't like the game QUIT. but to sit there and comlpain about the people doing their jobs is stu-pid!

I know your job flipping burgers is tough for you, but not everyone has a job thats so straight forward.
If you are going to insult the necromancer community on these forums could you first please gain at least a rudimentary grasp of the English language. How old are you?

But going back to the OP - yes I am worried about the aggro holding abilities of the tank pet. To be honest it is about as useless now as the offensive pets used to be - and we all know how long it took to see a fix for those...

I'll be 34 in 2 weeks. If I wanted to use "thesis grammar" I would, but why? For you? No.... If you really have a problem reading that then you really just have a problem reading.

Thay · 05-18-2006, 10:29 PM

cfteague2 wrote:

Zald, are you asking for Necro tank pets to be better than player tanks?

You see, if we have less dps, and yet can still solo, that means our tank pet is tanking for longer. If our dps is low enough, that means the pet has to tank for a LONG TIME. Which would mean it has to be much better than it is now, better than a player tank.

I think you would agree that we don't want pets to be better tanks than a player tank is.

Pet tanks are nowhere near as good as a Player Tank. Even taking into account normal class buffs, AA line buffs that increase the DPS, and AA Defense buffs of the pet.

I can send my tank pet (Master I Dreadnought) against a blue ^ solo con ravasect ambusher mob without casting anything myself, and when the fight is over my pet is at 30% health left.

I'm betting tank types fare far better. How does that make a pet tanks better than a player tank?

Za · 05-19-2006, 12:03 AM

They don't care about such facts Thaych. Your experience doesn't support their grand theory, so its irrelivant.And according to most of them, you must have ubber skillz becasue they certainly can't do what you describe above.

Jerr · 05-19-2006, 01:05 PM

Zald,

I think people would be more receptive to your posts if you toned down the arrogance and the know-it-all attitude.

You make good points but your attitude stinks. That in itself is a turn off.

Hope you can take constructive criticism.

Cheers,

Jerril

Fle · 05-19-2006, 02:12 PM

Zald wrote:

cfteague2 wrote:

Zald, are you asking for Necro tank pets to be better than player tanks?

You see, if we have less dps, and yet can still solo, that means our tank pet is tanking for longer. If our dps is low enough, that means the pet has to tank for a LONG TIME. Which would mean it has to be much better than it is now, better than a player tank.

I think you would agree that we don't want pets to be better tanks than a player tank is.

Look, put the BS away. I'm not some newb wiz that doesn't know the necro class.

Necro personal DPS is good enough to solo much exp trash with. Even without a pet, I solo faster and better than half the classes in the game.For pure solo exp grinding necros are awesome, we mow down blue - white mobs with our mage or scout pets + our added personal DPS and never drop below 90% power. So please oh please spare me the BS.

Having our warrior pets hold mobs off just long enough that we can solo ^^ or even ^^^ mobs really doesn't take much. And if we're using our warrior mob, thats what he's there for... to hold agro, not DPS. And if towards the end of a white ^^^ fight the pet looses agro, or dies. Well a white ^^^ mob is supposed to be a huge challenge. At current, I know I can do a lot better than white ^^^.

Yes killing tripple down arrow mobs is easy. That's because there easy mobs by design you [Removed for Content]. Any class can kill these with ease. The mobs become more challenging when they are ^ solo or higher. You certainly do not plow through these.

Za · 05-19-2006, 10:19 PM

Jerril wrote:
Zald,

I think people would be more receptive to your posts if you toned down the arrogance and the know-it-all attitude.
You make good points but your attitude stinks. That in itself is a turn off.
Hope you can take constructive criticism.
Cheers,
Jerril

I certainly can.Hey, I'm not really talking to the reasonable people. I can easily carry on a civil conversation, but I hate lying, exagerating, illogical posts. They irk me cuz they spread misinformation like bird flu. All they do is confuse people and create noise that prevents constructive dialogue between SoE and the players. Constructive critisism is one thing, poorly conceived emotional rants are another.I don't know everything, but I at least try to argue from facts in an objective manner. Not from a self centered emotional perspective. IMHO if everyone at least tried to do that, the world would be a better place. But if you read posts from other threads, I don't usually come across this way except when I'm posting replies to certain kinds of posts. But I do see your point...

Za · 05-19-2006, 10:25 PM

Fleet wrote:
Zald wrote:

cfteague2 wrote:

Zald, are you asking for Necro tank pets to be better than player tanks?

You see, if we have less dps, and yet can still solo, that means our tank pet is tanking for longer. If our dps is low enough, that means the pet has to tank for a LONG TIME. Which would mean it has to be much better than it is now, better than a player tank.

I think you would agree that we don't want pets to be better tanks than a player tank is.

Look, put the BS away. I'm not some newb wiz that doesn't know the necro class.

Necro personal DPS is good enough to solo much exp trash with. Even without a pet, I solo faster and better than half the classes in the game.For pure solo exp grinding necros are awesome, we mow down blue - white mobs with our mage or scout pets + our added personal DPS and never drop below 90% power. So please oh please spare me the BS.

Having our warrior pets hold mobs off just long enough that we can solo ^^ or even ^^^ mobs really doesn't take much. And if we're using our warrior mob, thats what he's there for... to hold agro, not DPS. And if towards the end of a white ^^^ fight the pet looses agro, or dies. Well a white ^^^ mob is supposed to be a huge challenge. At current, I know I can do a lot better than white ^^^.
Yes killing tripple down arrow mobs is easy. That's because there easy mobs by design you [Removed for Content]. Any class can kill these with ease. The mobs become more challenging when they are ^ solo or higher. You certainly do not plow through these.

Uhm, yeah I do. 1 up arrow mobs are easy. triple down area mobs don't even need attention, I leave them alone till I get enough of them around to warrant a coupld of AoEs. I hate wasting time killing them one by one. Even arrow mobs are also trivial. ^^ mobs are really where you actually have to start pay attention to what you're doing. BTW, what are you reading? I never mention down arrow mobs at all? I only solo ^ or higher... non arrows aren't at all fun...or remotely dangerous (as the game is currently, this may change with LU24).

05-15-2006, 09:01 PM	#31
Purita General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	That wizard must SUCK [Removed for Content], tell him app 2 spells don't cut it. I don't care what you say he sucks or your lying, 7 lvls and the same Dps differential is bull.h.t __________________ 57 Necro / Nicodemius ; 35 Myst / Puritain 34 Pal / Wolfiran ; 47 PvP Nag Inq / Puritian

05-15-2006, 10:30 PM	#32
raven0 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 35	Puritain wrote: That wizard must SUCK [Removed for Content], tell him app 2 spells don't cut it. I don't care what you say he sucks or your lying, 7 lvls and the same Dps differential is bull.h.t I agree, it sounds fabricated, or maybe the wizard had to limit his DPS due to the pets bad aggro management.

05-16-2006, 12:08 AM	#33
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	raven098 wrote: Puritain wrote: That wizard must SUCK [Removed for Content], tell him app 2 spells don't cut it. I don't care what you say he sucks or your lying, 7 lvls and the same Dps differential is bull.h.t I agree, it sounds fabricated, or maybe the wizard had to limit his DPS due to the pets bad aggro management. Yes, this is actually one of the big advantages of necros. The wizards really do have to watch their damage more than a necro doing the same amount of overall damage does. A necro generating 1500 points of damage, but divided amount pets will generate less hate than a wizard doing 1000 from pure DD. This is one of the less noticable advantages summoners have and never concider when looking at balance.

05-16-2006, 12:12 AM	#34
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	KBern wrote: Zald wrote: We're a sum of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts type class. Meaning that a necro and his pet should not be even remotely as good as a wizard and a tank duoing, You ever watch a wizard or warlock solo, ever watch a monk/bruiser or zerker solo? We are not even close to matching the duo's, let alone even them solo with some solo encounters. Our tank pets were not overpowered in any way at all. A creative necro can kill some high lvl mobs solo IF everything goes right, but I am not sure about your spells, but master fear and master root are resisted alot and as soon as dmg is done they break...there is no fast refresh or stacking on the mob to keep it under control. Guildies are always amazed at stuff they read here, and then watch the tank pets in action with a healer in the group...ask any healer who has tried to have a necro/conj pet stand in for a tank....they hate it and would choose a real tank in an instant...no questions asked. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying...just ask healer. Yes, I know a TON of wizards and warlocks. In both cases I solo better than the avg siz/warlock wearing avg gear, and only a little bit worse than the best I've met. Monks I haven't watched solo much, but just grouping with a Monk MT, I can tell they're ubber. But as I've said before. I'm not going to [Removed for Content] and moan becasue another clase if broken worse than me. I also know that I solo better than the other 14 classes in the game... so your mentioning 1 or 2 that are better really is meaningless. Esp when wiz/war are only marginally better, and if a wiz/war screws up... they die! Its great fun seeing a wiz war soloing out of their league and having a root fail... splat, corse respawns... I have FD and I have pets, I seldom die unless I push it too far, but options are our advantage.

05-17-2006, 04:13 AM	#41
Kelader Lord Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 20	Who the F stole my Name wrote: today in lavastorm, we had a 3 person group. 38 fury 40 necro (me) 47 wizard. the fury was posting parses after most fights, and in almost every fight, i tied with, often beating by a substantial margin, the 7 levels higher wizard. That was with my tank pet serving as the group tank. And only at apprentice 1 too. We were fighting encounters of 3 level 42 ^'s, encounters of 2 ^^'s and encounters of 1 ^^^'s However the wizard beat my dps every time when we did non heroics, because of the shorter length of the fights. It seemed to be that i had an advantage in longer fights, as it should be, but to outdo a wizard that was 7 levels higher, seemed a bit .. off. O and, the pet lost aggro several times every fight, often not getting it back again. Always to the wizard as well, never lost aggro to me. So ..... Give us more taunting! :smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by Who the F stole my Name on 05-13-2006 02:00 PM How hard to you think a 47 wizard can go with that tank?

05-16-2006, 12:51 AM	#35
DarkNef Lord Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4	Honestly our Tank pets are near worthless tanks as is and our heals on the pets are so pathetic they make no diffrence most of the time as I can self heal myself takning the ^^^ greens better then I can hurt myself healing my stupid tank pet, lol, I only use him due to the AA path that lets him intercept damage sometimes, I find myself lifetap tanking most mobs includeing heroics lately. This inc nerf is pointless to us anyway as The only reason we Do so much damage is we have loads non-stop DPS on Raid mobs and it adds up, they are gonna kill our pets down some, and were still gonna be doing T1 DPS ON MOBS WITH LOTS OF HPS ONLY not on normal group stuff, Parsers are retarted and inaccurate way to say nerf this class its overpowered, A players Skill and Gear and Combos they use highly contribute to how much dps they do over another person, how many procs do they have? how much damage boosters do they have? are they in a group with someone that greatly increases their DPS? You CAN'T PUT classes in DPS teirs and balance them off that. They are not just takeing one class and looking at it, they are takeing us both down as equals and the way our DPS and Conjurers work is a bit diffrent, Onslaught of DDS and AEs, Vs Damage over times, I still wanna know why they gave Conjurers Planeshift (Scout pet) and us Undead Tide (almost worthless dps till they make it use Essenses of anguish) if they did not want summoners to do a Heck of a lot of Damage over time without much mana consumption. I mean if they are SO worried about us doing so much damage on raids through our pets, why not reduce pets damage vs epic mobs rather then just Kill the pets to almost worthlessness with nerf after nerf to them. It would fix one problem without adding to another for us necros, because in a group a 10k DDs gonna do more then 300 damage a tick dot to the mob and by the time we get another dot off mobs dead at least we have our pets to say were actully doing something! -Neffy PARSERS ARE THE DEVIL! Just a way to mesure ones E-.... you know!

05-16-2006, 12:55 AM	#36
DarkNef Lord Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4	I mean, I can Adapt, but these Nerfs in this update are silly none the less because there are better ways of fixing problems then Killing classes and abilitys down, and that goes for any class not just us!

05-16-2006, 08:43 AM	#37
kenji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 718	that wiz doesnt suck, what suck is that Tank Pet keep losing aggro to the Wiz, so the Wiz getting beat and couldnt do as much DPS as the class can be. shame to tank pet indeed.

05-16-2006, 10:59 AM	#38
Cecil_Stri General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 312	Zald explains it perfectly.

05-16-2006, 01:01 PM	#39
Allowen Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 126	I got a master lv 66 master pet with lv70 master defense instance buff and I barely hold agro off me, depending what I will try to kill using this pet I need to burn the mob fast before pet dies(pet for around 14k hp) because the super low mitigation/avoidace it has. The nerf on dps will make me need to use my agro decrease procing robe( I forgot the name ) full time then to see if I can keep agro on pet so i can burn the mobs fast before pet dies...... already a pain to keep recasting pets because it takes a year to recover hp back and it is just better to remake it. This game is starting to make pets so useless like on EQ1 that I had in there(also doing it in here atm) to build my avoidance as high and I could and lifetab tank with a dps pet to help me kill mob as quickly as possible since even as a caster I could tank/evade better then the pets I had......I am sad about conjurors trying to chain kill mobs with the super weak inc warrior pet or with the decreased dps scout pet, I am realy sad for then as a necro that I play. If the point is to limit the number of mob(s) and the speed that some class can kill then maybe it is time to add summoner mobs and root/snare immune creatures from EQ1 to come to Eq2 ? Allowen necromancer of MM server Lords of the triple moons guild

05-16-2006, 10:06 PM	#40
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Allowen:Sheesh! What are you truing to solo. Your post is EXTREMELY without merrit without that bit of information? Yes, vs ^^^ white or better mobs this is true. You really have to stun and use other damage mitigation strats to solo that kind of stuff. But vs anything less, the tank pet is fine.And no, the point is to lower the overall DPS we can do across the board with our scout pet and specifically vs raid mobs. And to lower our DPS when we're supposed to be taking a more defensive posture... ie using a warrior pet in def stance. I'm going to assume that you're one of those people that thinks soloing bust entail white or yellow ^^^ named mobs to be "rewarding", anything less than that and you think EQ2 is hurting soloers. hehe

05-17-2006, 05:27 PM	#42
Errie_Tholluxe Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 180	Zald wrote:Allowen:Sheesh! What are you truing to solo. Your post is EXTREMELY without merrit without that bit of information? Yes, vs ^^^ white or better mobs this is true. You really have to stun and use other damage mitigation strats to solo that kind of stuff. But vs anything less, the tank pet is fine.And no, the point is to lower the overall DPS we can do across the board with our scout pet and specifically vs raid mobs. And to lower our DPS when we're supposed to be taking a more defensive posture... ie using a warrior pet in def stance. I'm going to assume that you're one of those people that thinks soloing bust entail white or yellow ^^^ named mobs to be "rewarding", anything less than that and you think EQ2 is hurting soloers. hehe Gonna have to take issue with this. With a master buffs and master pet, 4 points in barrier and 4 in uproar it cant take the mobs in SoS that are ^^^blue and in the way for my Claymore quest without at least a partner, preferable either a dps or a healer. I can watch it get hit for more damage than I myself take against the mob, which aint much, even with a bunch of fabled T7 gear. Is it possible? Yes, with a LOT of work. Now I understand this is heroic content, but heck, if I RAN AWAY it wouldnt last 10 seconds against a ^^^ green. For some proof I went up to Bonemire and hit up a variety of blue no arrows. They routinely hit my pet hard and heavy, sometimes for 1/4 of its hit points in a shot. Note these are NO arrow blue singles. Dont believe me give it a shot. When I am raiding I often use the scout pet, but more often now, I find myself using the tank and the anti aoe from the stamina line, because its just more mana efficient than recasting the dang thing after every Aoe, and I am sure a lot of others do too. As for lowering our DPS when we are using our tank in defensive, heck the only time I do THAT is soloing. When I solo, [Removed for Content] should I be required to root a mob and recast my pet because it gets its butt handed to it by mobs 8 lvls lower? What , exactly is the point with that? If you look at the posts, you'll see..most of us wouldnt care if the tank pet COULDNT HIT ANYTHING AT ALL as long as it held agro and didnt die so dang fast. Nowhere does that entail name farming or hitting up white or yellow ^^^'s , thats just the trash that roams around. Now before you go tearing into me, you dunno your class etc, I can solo just fine atm, and in fact do almost exclusively when not raiding. I'm just tired of pets losing agro, dying because they're wimps and generally making me into a warlock without the fast dps. __________________ This is Pentium of Borg. Precision is futile. You will be approximated.

05-17-2006, 08:50 PM	#43
Druzgotek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 109	Well said, tank pet holds aggro worse than the scout pet. My tank pet is m1, and my scout pet is a3, rest of my spells are a3. __________________ * L80 Necromancer, Inquisitor, Bruiser, Berzerker, Defiler * * L80 Sage, Alchemist, Armorer, Jeweler, Tailor *

05-17-2006, 11:56 PM	#44
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Druzgotek wrote: You should apply for a job with SOE as a developer, zald. You would fit right in. I already work in the industry. But yeah I fit in cuz I can think without having to stand up so my brain can breath.If you don't like the game QUIT. but to sit there and comlpain about the people doing their jobs is stu-pid! I know your job flipping burgers is tough for you, but not everyone has a job thats so straight forward.

05-18-2006, 12:09 AM	#45
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Errie_Tholluxe wrote: Zald wrote:Allowen:Sheesh! What are you truing to solo. Your post is EXTREMELY without merrit without that bit of information? Yes, vs ^^^ white or better mobs this is true. You really have to stun and use other damage mitigation strats to solo that kind of stuff. But vs anything less, the tank pet is fine.And no, the point is to lower the overall DPS we can do across the board with our scout pet and specifically vs raid mobs. And to lower our DPS when we're supposed to be taking a more defensive posture... ie using a warrior pet in def stance. I'm going to assume that you're one of those people that thinks soloing bust entail white or yellow ^^^ named mobs to be "rewarding", anything less than that and you think EQ2 is hurting soloers. hehe Gonna have to take issue with this. With a master buffs and master pet, 4 points in barrier and 4 in uproar it cant take the mobs in SoS that are ^^^blue and in the way for my Claymore quest without at least a partner, preferable either a dps or a healer. I can watch it get hit for more damage than I myself take against the mob, which aint much, even with a bunch of fabled T7 gear. Is it possible? Yes, with a LOT of work. Now I understand this is heroic content, but heck, if I RAN AWAY it wouldnt last 10 seconds against a ^^^ green. For some proof I went up to Bonemire and hit up a variety of blue no arrows. They routinely hit my pet hard and heavy, sometimes for 1/4 of its hit points in a shot. Note these are NO arrow blue singles. Dont believe me give it a shot. When I am raiding I often use the scout pet, but more often now, I find myself using the tank and the anti aoe from the stamina line, because its just more mana efficient than recasting the dang thing after every Aoe, and I am sure a lot of others do too. As for lowering our DPS when we are using our tank in defensive, heck the only time I do THAT is soloing. When I solo, [Removed for Content] should I be required to root a mob and recast my pet because it gets its butt handed to it by mobs 8 lvls lower? What , exactly is the point with that? If you look at the posts, you'll see..most of us wouldnt care if the tank pet COULDNT HIT ANYTHING AT ALL as long as it held agro and didnt die so dang fast. Nowhere does that entail name farming or hitting up white or yellow ^^^'s , thats just the trash that roams around. Now before you go tearing into me, you dunno your class etc, I can solo just fine atm, and in fact do almost exclusively when not raiding. I'm just tired of pets losing agro, dying because they're wimps and generally making me into a warlock without the fast dps. Hey... I'd love to come watch you play. Post your name and server and I'll make a char just to do that.My scout can solo a blue no arrow mob without my intervention AT ALL. Yeah the tank takes more damage vs that same mob becasue the tank hits weak, but if I cast 2 taps, the mobs dead and the tanks 98% HPts.I solo ^^^ mobs in SoS when I need to, yes its a pain, the mobs do hit hard. ^^ blue mobs are MUCH easier though. both are heroic, ones just harder for our pets to handle. So what? Green ^^^... If you leave your pet, the pet dies... OMG what a concept. Our pets REQUIRE our assistance. Our pets are NOT the class, the necro deffines the class, the pet is just a tool. When used properly its a darn fine tool that allows us to solo those blue ^^^, and grouped ^^ mobs. It allows us to run from combat when we need to. It allows us to do damage, power free, while focusing our attentions on other aspects of our class if need be (like CC, or healing, or power transfer, or general combat management). It a decoy when need be, its a tank when need be, its extra DPS when need be (melee and non melee, we get both), its a disposable HT eater for pulls, its a power batter for us personally when we're low... Its sickening that you don't understand the point of pets in EQ2, they are NOT supposed to be a perma duo partners! If you want a duo partner, get a second account! The Necro class is supposed to be made whole by the intrensic powers of the necromancer PLUS the utility & flexability of the pets he has at his disposal.

05-18-2006, 04:23 AM	#46
Errie_Tholluxe Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 180	Zald wrote:Hey... I'd love to come watch you play. Post your name and server and I'll make a char just to do that.My scout can solo a blue no arrow mob without my intervention AT ALL. Yeah the tank takes more damage vs that same mob becasue the tank hits weak, but if I cast 2 taps, the mobs dead and the tanks 98% HPts.I solo ^^^ mobs in SoS when I need to, yes its a pain, the mobs do hit hard. ^^ blue mobs are MUCH easier though. both are heroic, ones just harder for our pets to handle. So what? Green ^^^... If you leave your pet, the pet dies... OMG what a concept. Our pets REQUIRE our assistance. Our pets are NOT the class, the necro deffines the class, the pet is just a tool. When used properly its a darn fine tool that allows us to solo those blue ^^^, and grouped ^^ mobs. It allows us to run from combat when we need to. It allows us to do damage, power free, while focusing our attentions on other aspects of our class if need be (like CC, or healing, or power transfer, or general combat management). It a decoy when need be, its a tank when need be, its extra DPS when need be (melee and non melee, we get both), its a disposable HT eater for pulls, its a power batter for us personally when we're low... Its sickening that you don't understand the point of pets in EQ2, they are NOT supposed to be a perma duo partners! If you want a duo partner, get a second account! The Necro class is supposed to be made whole by the intrensic powers of the necromancer PLUS the utility & flexability of the pets he has at his disposal. All true. What I was taking issue with is that the tank pet is fine as is. Its not, and hasnt been since the big patch that messed up agro with rending line and the previous one that lost us all our mitigation on him. His agro gen has never been the same since, and his mitigation is worse than a troub thats afk. I can KILL the stuff , even links, with trouble. Having to WORRY about my DoTs taking agro, or having to root a mob and let a pet heal for 5 minutes because it just got one shotted for half its health just aint right. As far as my concerns with the scout pet, you have a valid arguement. I can find blues that it can sit and wail on with no help. They're all caster mobs generally for some reason. The monk types eat her up, no problem, so maybe the issue there is TYPE of mob? My issue with the tank dying as i run, aint that it dies, its that it dies so quick I may as well take it along for the ride :smileytongue: Take your pet over to kill the BIxie Queen on Bixie Island and try to get it to hold agro and stay alive. Royal PITA for a mob that much lower than pets level. As far as coming to watch me, heck Everfrost, Sabutai Apropos, Deaths Door, I aint worried bout proving it :smileysurprised: __________________ This is Pentium of Borg. Precision is futile. You will be approximated.

05-18-2006, 04:58 AM	#47
Deila Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 443	Errie_Tholluxe wrote: I can KILL the stuff , even links, with trouble. Having to WORRY about my DoTs taking agro, or having to root a mob and let a pet heal for 5 minutes because it just got one shotted for half its health just aint right. As far as my concerns with the scout pet, you have a valid arguement. I can find blues that it can sit and wail on with no help. They're all caster mobs generally for some reason. The monk types eat her up, no problem, so maybe the issue there is TYPE of mob? I'd noticed this too. Tank pets have a much easier time with caster mobs than melee ones. One answer I found was in tank pet CAs - Graven Breath and Graven Frenzy both stifle, and Graven Vanquishing fears - all of which can mess caster mobs up more than melee ones. Second answer in the defensive stance. Whereas our pets get 0 mitigation against physical damage, the defensive stance effects bullets show an increase in mitigation against magical damage. Now, that said... I think part of the problems with pet tanking comes from a change in the defensive stance. I could've sworn that back before the tank pet aggro problems and him getting the snot kicked out of him, that our defensive stance mitigated against physical, not magical, damage. Wish I'd been taking screenshots of spells and such back then - I only have my memory on that, and one piece of additional evidence, that was found in the stance descriptions itself until very recently (and may still be present on live servers - I'm not sure exactly when this most recent change to stance descriptions took place). Since the pet problems, I noticed that the stance bulleted that it increased mitigation of target vs. all magical damage, but the descriptive text at the top clearly still said that it increased their resistance to trauma. Trauma is physical damage, not magical. I'd /bugged that in game on Test, saying that the magical mitigation was probably in error with the descriptive text and the way the stance had always worked previously. And now, looking today, I see the descriptive text changed to say that it increases spell resistances, not trauma anymore. So, I believe that was a big part of what changed with our tank pets ability to take hits. Physical mitigation was removed, but the defensive stance physical damage mitigation was also later changed to magical mitigation, resulting in us seeing two stages where our tank pets got progressively worse at taking hits. And in the meantime, is showing an increased ability to take out caster mobs. __________________

05-18-2006, 06:23 AM	#48
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Given... last 2 posts I agree with. The pet tank is weak vs certain mob types. Others it dominates. Scout is the same way.

05-18-2006, 11:05 AM	#49
Errie_Tholluxe Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 180	Aye, exactly. Now I dont mind so much switching out for like an area, and even then, I probably would just suffer thru..but it truly pains me to watch the poor thing made into a snack so quick :smileyindifferent:. In EQ1 it was quite clear flat out that the pet was a doorstop, and a cheap one at that. Here I was under the disillusionment that the pet was supposed to be more of a companion than a doorstop, and just wish it could reflect that. I have no wish to be a two-person soloist or groupist, and i understand in a lot of situations groupwise atm, thats pretty much what we are. Get a necro with a scout pet, tis ALMOST like getting a semi sorta equipped Assassin, and yup , knew that wouldnt last. Problem is finding that happy solo medium with pets across the board. Raid wise, I just drag out the tank, hit Unflinching Servant and never look back, just more efficient on the whole, my worries lie more in the solo aspect of it all. __________________ This is Pentium of Borg. Precision is futile. You will be approximated.

05-18-2006, 11:10 AM	#50
Errie_Tholluxe Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 180	Oh and to answer your one question up there, on live currently Grisly Bulwark Master I reads:When target is damaged this spell will cast Grisly Feedback on targets attacker inflicts 64 damage heals caster for 21 Decreases INT by 138 Decreases Attack Speed by 25% Increases Max Health by 16% Increases Hate Gain by 49% Increases Mitigation of target vs all magical damage by 1120 So your right, where once it was physical damage it is now magical. __________________ This is Pentium of Borg. Precision is futile. You will be approximated.

05-18-2006, 12:09 PM	#51
Deila Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 443	Yeah, I'd noticed that part some time ago, when I /bugged it on Test. The part I was wondering about was whether or not the descriptive text (the blurb stuff at the top of the examine window) still said that it increased trauma resistance, on live, since I'd only noticed that change here on Test tonight. Could easily have slipped past me though. I don't check every spell description daily to see if something's different without good reason to. __________________

05-18-2006, 12:50 PM	#52
Tokam General Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 718	Zald wrote: I already work in the industry. But yeah I fit in cuz I can think without having to stand up so my brain can breath. If you don't like the game QUIT. but to sit there and comlpain about the people doing their jobs is stu-pid! I know your job flipping burgers is tough for you, but not everyone has a job thats so straight forward. If you are going to insult the necromancer community on these forums could you first please gain at least a rudimentary grasp of the English language. How old are you? But going back to the OP - yes I am worried about the aggro holding abilities of the tank pet. To be honest it is about as useless now as the offensive pets used to be - and we all know how long it took to see a fix for those... __________________

05-18-2006, 08:37 PM	#53
Druzgotek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 109	I just want tank pet to hold aggro very VERY well. So I can relax when I use it. This does not mean I want it to do good dps, or tank triple up mobs. I just want it to be awesome aggro holder of mobs starting from group of three double down arrow mobs and ending in one no arrow mob. Right now it fails in this. __________________ * L80 Necromancer, Inquisitor, Bruiser, Berzerker, Defiler * * L80 Sage, Alchemist, Armorer, Jeweler, Tailor *

05-18-2006, 09:36 PM	#54
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Sulpeel wrote: Zald wrote: I already work in the industry. But yeah I fit in cuz I can think without having to stand up so my brain can breath. If you don't like the game QUIT. but to sit there and comlpain about the people doing their jobs is stu-pid! I know your job flipping burgers is tough for you, but not everyone has a job thats so straight forward. If you are going to insult the necromancer community on these forums could you first please gain at least a rudimentary grasp of the English language. How old are you? But going back to the OP - yes I am worried about the aggro holding abilities of the tank pet. To be honest it is about as useless now as the offensive pets used to be - and we all know how long it took to see a fix for those... I'll be 34 in 2 weeks. If I wanted to use "thesis grammar" I would, but why? For you? No.... If you really have a problem reading that then you really just have a problem reading.

05-18-2006, 10:29 PM	#55
Thay General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 220	cfteague2 wrote: Zald, are you asking for Necro tank pets to be better than player tanks? You see, if we have less dps, and yet can still solo, that means our tank pet is tanking for longer. If our dps is low enough, that means the pet has to tank for a LONG TIME. Which would mean it has to be much better than it is now, better than a player tank. I think you would agree that we don't want pets to be better tanks than a player tank is. Pet tanks are nowhere near as good as a Player Tank. Even taking into account normal class buffs, AA line buffs that increase the DPS, and AA Defense buffs of the pet. I can send my tank pet (Master I Dreadnought) against a blue ^ solo con ravasect ambusher mob without casting anything myself, and when the fight is over my pet is at 30% health left. I'm betting tank types fare far better. How does that make a pet tanks better than a player tank? __________________

05-19-2006, 12:03 AM	#56
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	They don't care about such facts Thaych. Your experience doesn't support their grand theory, so its irrelivant.And according to most of them, you must have ubber skillz becasue they certainly can't do what you describe above.

05-19-2006, 01:05 PM	#57
Jerr General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 134	Zald, I think people would be more receptive to your posts if you toned down the arrogance and the know-it-all attitude. You make good points but your attitude stinks. That in itself is a turn off. Hope you can take constructive criticism. Cheers, Jerril

05-19-2006, 02:12 PM	#58
Fle General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 123	Zald wrote: cfteague2 wrote: Zald, are you asking for Necro tank pets to be better than player tanks? You see, if we have less dps, and yet can still solo, that means our tank pet is tanking for longer. If our dps is low enough, that means the pet has to tank for a LONG TIME. Which would mean it has to be much better than it is now, better than a player tank. I think you would agree that we don't want pets to be better tanks than a player tank is. Look, put the BS away. I'm not some newb wiz that doesn't know the necro class. Necro personal DPS is good enough to solo much exp trash with. Even without a pet, I solo faster and better than half the classes in the game.For pure solo exp grinding necros are awesome, we mow down blue - white mobs with our mage or scout pets + our added personal DPS and never drop below 90% power. So please oh please spare me the BS. Having our warrior pets hold mobs off just long enough that we can solo ^^ or even ^^^ mobs really doesn't take much. And if we're using our warrior mob, thats what he's there for... to hold agro, not DPS. And if towards the end of a white ^^^ fight the pet looses agro, or dies. Well a white ^^^ mob is supposed to be a huge challenge. At current, I know I can do a lot better than white ^^^. Yes killing tripple down arrow mobs is easy. That's because there easy mobs by design you [Removed for Content]. Any class can kill these with ease. The mobs become more challenging when they are ^ solo or higher. You certainly do not plow through these.

05-19-2006, 10:19 PM	#59
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Jerril wrote: Zald, I think people would be more receptive to your posts if you toned down the arrogance and the know-it-all attitude. You make good points but your attitude stinks. That in itself is a turn off. Hope you can take constructive criticism. Cheers, Jerril I certainly can.Hey, I'm not really talking to the reasonable people. I can easily carry on a civil conversation, but I hate lying, exagerating, illogical posts. They irk me cuz they spread misinformation like bird flu. All they do is confuse people and create noise that prevents constructive dialogue between SoE and the players. Constructive critisism is one thing, poorly conceived emotional rants are another.I don't know everything, but I at least try to argue from facts in an objective manner. Not from a self centered emotional perspective. IMHO if everyone at least tried to do that, the world would be a better place. But if you read posts from other threads, I don't usually come across this way except when I'm posting replies to certain kinds of posts. But I do see your point...

05-19-2006, 10:25 PM	#60
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Fleet wrote: Zald wrote: cfteague2 wrote: Zald, are you asking for Necro tank pets to be better than player tanks? You see, if we have less dps, and yet can still solo, that means our tank pet is tanking for longer. If our dps is low enough, that means the pet has to tank for a LONG TIME. Which would mean it has to be much better than it is now, better than a player tank. I think you would agree that we don't want pets to be better tanks than a player tank is. Look, put the BS away. I'm not some newb wiz that doesn't know the necro class. Necro personal DPS is good enough to solo much exp trash with. Even without a pet, I solo faster and better than half the classes in the game.For pure solo exp grinding necros are awesome, we mow down blue - white mobs with our mage or scout pets + our added personal DPS and never drop below 90% power. So please oh please spare me the BS. Having our warrior pets hold mobs off just long enough that we can solo ^^ or even ^^^ mobs really doesn't take much. And if we're using our warrior mob, thats what he's there for... to hold agro, not DPS. And if towards the end of a white ^^^ fight the pet looses agro, or dies. Well a white ^^^ mob is supposed to be a huge challenge. At current, I know I can do a lot better than white ^^^. Yes killing tripple down arrow mobs is easy. That's because there easy mobs by design you [Removed for Content]. Any class can kill these with ease. The mobs become more challenging when they are ^ solo or higher. You certainly do not plow through these. Uhm, yeah I do. 1 up arrow mobs are easy. triple down area mobs don't even need attention, I leave them alone till I get enough of them around to warrant a coupld of AoEs. I hate wasting time killing them one by one. Even arrow mobs are also trivial. ^^ mobs are really where you actually have to start pay attention to what you're doing. BTW, what are you reading? I never mention down arrow mobs at all? I only solo ^ or higher... non arrows aren't at all fun...or remotely dangerous (as the game is currently, this may change with LU24).