Coercer spells on Test, 5/23 - Page 2

Pilni · 06-05-2006, 06:56 PM

My test coercer, you forgot some spells hehe While you are at it, take a quick look at the Harmonious link.... lol, says it reduces hate gain in the description and increases hate gain in the effects bar

Message Edited by Pilni on 06-05-2006 08:08 AM

Tanatus · 06-05-2006, 07:36 PM

nscragg I'd agree with you if our AA would have anything to do with our ability to land spells or our abilities to control mobs... Yes our AA help us to boost our DPS somethat - you can go either with Perpentuality + Damage Proc gear or with Spell Crits + Damage proc spells (trubadur/illusionists buffs)

Resently I been watching a lot my raid parsers (I went with Perpentuality+Damage proc gear) and from what I see serious chunk of my damage comming from Sonic Boom (30s refresh time for on average 2200 per mob + procs - I'd estimate it as at least 10-20% of my total DPS) - cutting this on half will make me lose around 40-50DPS (in conjuction with fact I am loosing procs frequency). Other big contributor to my DPS is Ego Torrent with focus robe I stable hitting mob on ~1100 every 15s which is another 70-80DPS of mine after LU24 I will lose 75% DPS on this spell recast timer double, damage halved which is again over duration of time loosing another 50DPS.

Overall we are talking about loosing total around 30% DPS on raid dropping from 600-900 down to 400-600. It would be nice be compensated for that nerf anyhow. I dont give a danm for shrink timers on stuns and mezes (I have couple more tricks in my sleeves) but what I do care I am loosing BOTH primary nukes single target Ego Torrent and PBAE Sonic Boom. I'd love to see changes back to DD my Cataclismic Mind line - hey it USE to be DD, then for breif moment of time between LU13 and LU14 it was killer reactive past LU14? lol this spell only good for multiplication of toughtstones.

So it would be nice get it back to the 9s recast 2s cast ~2000-2500DD at M1

Sy · 06-05-2006, 08:51 PM

I have found that short of spamming seizure we really run out on useful spells to be casting anyway. When your forced to cast your thermal shocker because EVERY one of your raid spells is down and your tryin to sneak some dmg between your seizures.. well thats just not right... So the solution is? Simple.. Increase the casting timers... hahah sounds like a joke right? No... Increase the casting timers and give us a bunch more useful Raid Spells. In the time that my sonic and torrents are down.. ill be sneakin in a quick Stun or Daze... This isnt ment to render the mob immobilized... Its not CONTROL... consider it like a debuff.. Its a reducer.. Simple.. the changes arent horrible... Just re-adjust your strat. We will now be moderate dps (i imagin about 500 with right AA setup depending on procs) My problem is this... Jousting is HUGE... in fact so huge that if our spells mess with the AE timers people will ask us not to stun/stifle. If daze effects Ae's we are also screwed (although Daze has nothing to do with CA's).. Basically if that happens people will say "No CC" which means NO TORRENT and NO SONIC AT ALL. SOoooooo... if that happens.. My "new" coercer will take a HUGE gimped DPS nerf... I do trust SOE. They know what they're doing most of the time.. whether we like it or not... Either way.. if Torrent and Sonic become useless.. Im gonna go STR line !!!:smileymad:

Tanatus · 06-06-2006, 12:13 AM

Nah bud if Sonic and Ego take fall you oughta stick with Perpentuality and relay ONLY on damage procing gear lol

P.S. btw M1 cannibalize practically offset manaburn from Perpentuality

Sy · 06-06-2006, 02:37 AM

Im really kinda curious as to what kinda dmg output a coercer can actually get with the str line.. I wonder... hey Tanatus.. lets respec and run around beating on things for a day.. See what we parse... PS: our invis gives us AE immunity

RatWithGun · 06-06-2006, 09:28 PM

As a lvl 70 raiding Coercer nearly all my dps is from Auspex and Spellscourge so i dont see any real dps nerf.

Ulrick85 · 06-06-2006, 09:47 PM

Syan wrote:

PS: our invis gives us AE immunity

o.O

Raid leader: Ae inc

me: *cast invise*

that seems... odd... lol i think it'd just be faster to run out of range then to use invise... although i suppose it could be usefull in PvP...

Barobra · 06-06-2006, 10:07 PM

Or if an epic has 2 or 3 ae's you can just stay invis the whole time and give everyone mana. :smileyvery-happy:

Tanatus · 06-06-2006, 10:26 PM

With spell scourge and auspex even at master 1 level you will be clocking barely at 300-400 mark if you get lucky on procs good coercer in MT group should stay above 650 on single target and above 800 on pack - outside of MT group? there is no excuse to do less then 900DPS

xpraetorianx · 06-07-2006, 02:03 PM

I wouldnt have a problem with any of the changes, but the RECAST TIMERS ARE BLOODY PITIFUL on these spells.... almost doubling recasts is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] joke.... they better have a sub AA line that you can reduce these recast timers.....

Signal9 · 06-07-2006, 04:39 PM

xpraetorianx wrote:
I wouldnt have a problem with any of the changes, but the RECAST TIMERS ARE BLOODY PITIFUL on these spells.... almost doubling recasts is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] joke.... they better have a sub AA line that you can reduce these recast timers.....

Yep. Sounds like SoE just negated, (or made a requirement ouot of ) Perpetuality. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty recast timers unless you've maxxed out this AA line fully. /Blech.

Wrapye · 06-07-2006, 08:19 PM

Perpetuality does nothing for the recast timers, just the cast timers. You get to cast spells really fast, so long as you keep it up. Kinda feeds into the INT line, where the final ability only works if you are below 30% power. If you use perpetuality a lot, you will find yourself in that range often (which is why I respec'ed away from it).As an MT group coercer, I find must of my dps coming from Auspex, Spell Scourge and Breakdown. On certain mobs, I can get in Sonic Boom as added dps. I can parse out as being one of the top damage dealers if the mob is immune to something (say both crushing and disease... SMILEY

).1+ STR: 2/ AGI: 4/6 STA: 4/4/8 WIS 4/8/8

Tanatus · 06-07-2006, 11:04 PM

Well AGI line somethat affect recast but not directly.... It reduce cool-down timers by visible margine 5 points will bring you down to 0.3 or so instead of 0.5 - which is PRICELESS then you solo a lot or need get off resisted spell fast

About mana burn assosiated with perpentuality I finally found way to offset it.... easy. You need 1 single spell SMILEY Master 1 Trasnfer Potential - every 20s it boost your power pool by 420 power in conjuction with 98power/tic that comes from spell and FT10 I have ....its enouth

Message Edited by Tanatus on 06-07-2006 03:05 PM

Sy · 06-07-2006, 11:17 PM

Ulrick85 wrote:

Syan wrote:PS: our invis gives us AE immunity

o.O

Raid leader: Ae inc

me: *cast invise*

that seems... odd... lol i think it'd just be faster to run out of range then to use invise... although i suppose it could be usefull in PvP...

Well.. Its not useful... You're right.. You cant even cast this sucker if you are engaged.. But it can save you in those wierd situations.. That post wasnt meant to be "hey you're all idiots and should do this" it was more of a hey "lotsa people dont know that little tid bit of info" Sy

Wrapye · 06-08-2006, 12:03 AM

Tanatus wrote:

About mana burn assosiated with perpentuality I finally found way to offset it.... easy. You need 1 single spell Master 1 Trasnfer Potential - every 20s it boost your power pool by 420 power in conjuction with 98power/tic that comes from spell and FT10 I have ....its enouth

Ease master 2 = 42/tick, Beholder's Eye master 1 = 14.6/tick, so the combined is 56.6/tick. Add in FT10 and you have 66.6 (1/10th of the Antichrist! SMILEY

) points per tick. How do you figure 98?

Tanatus · 06-08-2006, 12:26 AM

Gorg Toughts Master 1 = 41 power/tic

Petgroup · 06-08-2006, 08:57 AM

Vicious Torment is also 41 pow/tic -------------------------------------------------------------------After playing on test, imo, these changes are awesome.Breakdown: 400-800 more damage from the final tick on itHarmonious Link: INSANE, they coulda made the change to this spell be the replacement to our +aggro line but instead we get this. This spell alone is my favorite change.Confoundment: Grp stun now but can no longer be cast on the run and has no aggro reduction to it. The change to Harmonious link offsets this by a ton though imo.Ego Torrent: Pretty much the same damage as before but it has a longer recast, is groupwide now and dazes. At first I was mad when I saw this but after using it, I am very happy. My only gripe is that this is our only daze spell that effects epics, our root is still not epic. Which means we start off and daze the encounter, the encounter is immune to daze for 24 seconds but the recast is 45. So we sorta lose out.Blink: Now scales, kinda cool but always ports me somewhere I don't want to be :smileytongue:Sonic Boom: On raids, I rarely used it as you have to be close to mobs. This won't hurt my raid dps 1 bit. Solo/Group dps though takes a HUGE hit. Kinda sad about this but we have like 12+ months before a level cap increase, so I don't think ill be xping at all :smileywink:Last but not least, Mez and Stifle. Sure they took off 10 seconds from our primary mez but after keeping a yellow epic mezzed for 13 seconds, its game changing. If you couldn't beat a mob before, having a chanter there will help you a ton. The Nightblood in HoS will get beat after Lu24, it may take a few weeks but the only way its happening is with an Enchanter(s). Unless SoE makes it so you can have more than 1attempt.Overall grade on changes for Enchanters, especially Coercers from my standpoint : A raidwise B- group F soloAll thats left now is to remove the power drains and replace them with something useful. Maybe a small deaggro ? Idk, id like something cool but would take anything useful that doesn't make me say [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] id rather have the powerdrain instead lol

Message Edited by nikecmh42 on 06-07-2006 11:21 PM

xpraetorianx · 06-09-2006, 09:36 AM

AGI line doesnt affect recast timers, it affects recovery timers, which allow you to cast spells one after another. There needs to be a RECAST AA line... so here is hoping something happens to shorten these... other than troubs I suppose.

Nuhus · 06-09-2006, 05:00 PM

I'm posting some selected adept III's from test for the hell of it.. Heres the current as of today.

It's a buffed character, I'm sure I could do much better with the stats on live.

6/9/06

I think the Ego line will up our group DPS, but will hurt some on solo DPS (of a single mob and recast stinks) =/

But on test, subject to change.

Wrapye · 06-09-2006, 05:38 PM

So our target encounter mezz, a now target encounter stun and our main single target stun are much easier for the mobs to resists. This with coercers being the better of the two enchanters at stunning.Blah.I'm not at my game machine at the moment, but I don't recall if Stroke has a harder than usual chance to be resisted on Live like it does on Test now.

Nuhus · 06-09-2006, 05:56 PM

sacremon wrote:
I'm not at my game machine at the moment, but I don't recall if Stroke has a harder than usual chance to be resisted on Live like it does on Test now.

Yeah, I don't think that one has changed just happened to make it into the screenshot.

JackAll · 06-09-2006, 07:32 PM

Does Stroke interrupt epics on test?

06-06-2006, 09:47 PM	#37
Ulrick85 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 103	Syan wrote: PS: our invis gives us AE immunity o.O Raid leader: Ae inc me: cast invise that seems... odd... lol i think it'd just be faster to run out of range then to use invise... although i suppose it could be usefull in PvP... __________________ ~Neriya 70 froglok coercer Oasis ~Arycel - 64 Warden

06-07-2006, 04:39 PM	#41
Signal9 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 583	xpraetorianx wrote: I wouldnt have a problem with any of the changes, but the RECAST TIMERS ARE BLOODY PITIFUL on these spells.... almost doubling recasts is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] joke.... they better have a sub AA line that you can reduce these recast timers..... Yep. Sounds like SoE just negated, (or made a requirement ouot of ) Perpetuality. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty recast timers unless you've maxxed out this AA line fully. /Blech. __________________

06-07-2006, 08:19 PM	#42
Wrapye Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 912	Perpetuality does nothing for the recast timers, just the cast timers. You get to cast spells really fast, so long as you keep it up. Kinda feeds into the INT line, where the final ability only works if you are below 30% power. If you use perpetuality a lot, you will find yourself in that range often (which is why I respec'ed away from it).As an MT group coercer, I find must of my dps coming from Auspex, Spell Scourge and Breakdown. On certain mobs, I can get in Sonic Boom as added dps. I can parse out as being one of the top damage dealers if the mob is immune to something (say both crushing and disease... ).1+ STR: 2/ AGI: 4/6 STA: 4/4/8 WIS 4/8/8 __________________

06-07-2006, 11:04 PM	#43
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Well AGI line somethat affect recast but not directly.... It reduce cool-down timers by visible margine 5 points will bring you down to 0.3 or so instead of 0.5 - which is PRICELESS then you solo a lot or need get off resisted spell fast About mana burn assosiated with perpentuality I finally found way to offset it.... easy. You need 1 single spell Master 1 Trasnfer Potential - every 20s it boost your power pool by 420 power in conjuction with 98power/tic that comes from spell and FT10 I have ....its enouth Message Edited by Tanatus on 06-07-2006 03:05 PM

06-07-2006, 11:17 PM	#44
Sy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	Ulrick85 wrote: Syan wrote:PS: our invis gives us AE immunity o.O Raid leader: Ae inc me: cast invise that seems... odd... lol i think it'd just be faster to run out of range then to use invise... although i suppose it could be usefull in PvP... Well.. Its not useful... You're right.. You cant even cast this sucker if you are engaged.. But it can save you in those wierd situations.. That post wasnt meant to be "hey you're all idiots and should do this" it was more of a hey "lotsa people dont know that little tid bit of info" Sy

06-05-2006, 06:56 PM	#31
Pilni Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 11	My test coercer, you forgot some spells hehe While you are at it, take a quick look at the Harmonious link.... lol, says it reduces hate gain in the description and increases hate gain in the effects bar Message Edited by Pilni on 06-05-2006 08:08 AM

06-05-2006, 07:36 PM	#32
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	nscragg I'd agree with you if our AA would have anything to do with our ability to land spells or our abilities to control mobs... Yes our AA help us to boost our DPS somethat - you can go either with Perpentuality + Damage Proc gear or with Spell Crits + Damage proc spells (trubadur/illusionists buffs) Resently I been watching a lot my raid parsers (I went with Perpentuality+Damage proc gear) and from what I see serious chunk of my damage comming from Sonic Boom (30s refresh time for on average 2200 per mob + procs - I'd estimate it as at least 10-20% of my total DPS) - cutting this on half will make me lose around 40-50DPS (in conjuction with fact I am loosing procs frequency). Other big contributor to my DPS is Ego Torrent with focus robe I stable hitting mob on ~1100 every 15s which is another 70-80DPS of mine after LU24 I will lose 75% DPS on this spell recast timer double, damage halved which is again over duration of time loosing another 50DPS. Overall we are talking about loosing total around 30% DPS on raid dropping from 600-900 down to 400-600. It would be nice be compensated for that nerf anyhow. I dont give a danm for shrink timers on stuns and mezes (I have couple more tricks in my sleeves) but what I do care I am loosing BOTH primary nukes single target Ego Torrent and PBAE Sonic Boom. I'd love to see changes back to DD my Cataclismic Mind line - hey it USE to be DD, then for breif moment of time between LU13 and LU14 it was killer reactive past LU14? lol this spell only good for multiplication of toughtstones. So it would be nice get it back to the 9s recast 2s cast ~2000-2500DD at M1

06-05-2006, 08:51 PM	#33
Sy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	I have found that short of spamming seizure we really run out on useful spells to be casting anyway. When your forced to cast your thermal shocker because EVERY one of your raid spells is down and your tryin to sneak some dmg between your seizures.. well thats just not right... So the solution is? Simple.. Increase the casting timers... hahah sounds like a joke right? No... Increase the casting timers and give us a bunch more useful Raid Spells. In the time that my sonic and torrents are down.. ill be sneakin in a quick Stun or Daze... This isnt ment to render the mob immobilized... Its not CONTROL... consider it like a debuff.. Its a reducer.. Simple.. the changes arent horrible... Just re-adjust your strat. We will now be moderate dps (i imagin about 500 with right AA setup depending on procs) My problem is this... Jousting is HUGE... in fact so huge that if our spells mess with the AE timers people will ask us not to stun/stifle. If daze effects Ae's we are also screwed (although Daze has nothing to do with CA's).. Basically if that happens people will say "No CC" which means NO TORRENT and NO SONIC AT ALL. SOoooooo... if that happens.. My "new" coercer will take a HUGE gimped DPS nerf... I do trust SOE. They know what they're doing most of the time.. whether we like it or not... Either way.. if Torrent and Sonic become useless.. Im gonna go STR line !!!:smileymad:

06-06-2006, 12:13 AM	#34
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Nah bud if Sonic and Ego take fall you oughta stick with Perpentuality and relay ONLY on damage procing gear lol P.S. btw M1 cannibalize practically offset manaburn from Perpentuality

06-06-2006, 02:37 AM	#35
Sy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	Im really kinda curious as to what kinda dmg output a coercer can actually get with the str line.. I wonder... hey Tanatus.. lets respec and run around beating on things for a day.. See what we parse... PS: our invis gives us AE immunity

06-06-2006, 09:28 PM	#36
RatWithGun Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	As a lvl 70 raiding Coercer nearly all my dps is from Auspex and Spellscourge so i dont see any real dps nerf.

06-06-2006, 10:07 PM	#38
Barobra Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 560	Or if an epic has 2 or 3 ae's you can just stay invis the whole time and give everyone mana. :smileyvery-happy:

06-06-2006, 10:26 PM	#39
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	With spell scourge and auspex even at master 1 level you will be clocking barely at 300-400 mark if you get lucky on procs good coercer in MT group should stay above 650 on single target and above 800 on pack - outside of MT group? there is no excuse to do less then 900DPS

06-07-2006, 02:03 PM	#40
xpraetorianx Fansite Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 419	I wouldnt have a problem with any of the changes, but the RECAST TIMERS ARE BLOODY PITIFUL on these spells.... almost doubling recasts is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] joke.... they better have a sub AA line that you can reduce these recast timers.....

06-08-2006, 12:03 AM	#45
Wrapye Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 912	Tanatus wrote: About mana burn assosiated with perpentuality I finally found way to offset it.... easy. You need 1 single spell Master 1 Trasnfer Potential - every 20s it boost your power pool by 420 power in conjuction with 98power/tic that comes from spell and FT10 I have ....its enouth Ease master 2 = 42/tick, Beholder's Eye master 1 = 14.6/tick, so the combined is 56.6/tick. Add in FT10 and you have 66.6 (1/10th of the Antichrist! ) points per tick. How do you figure 98? __________________

06-08-2006, 12:26 AM	#46
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Gorg Toughts Master 1 = 41 power/tic

06-08-2006, 08:57 AM	#47
Petgroup Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 309	Vicious Torment is also 41 pow/tic -------------------------------------------------------------------After playing on test, imo, these changes are awesome.Breakdown: 400-800 more damage from the final tick on itHarmonious Link: INSANE, they coulda made the change to this spell be the replacement to our +aggro line but instead we get this. This spell alone is my favorite change.Confoundment: Grp stun now but can no longer be cast on the run and has no aggro reduction to it. The change to Harmonious link offsets this by a ton though imo.Ego Torrent: Pretty much the same damage as before but it has a longer recast, is groupwide now and dazes. At first I was mad when I saw this but after using it, I am very happy. My only gripe is that this is our only daze spell that effects epics, our root is still not epic. Which means we start off and daze the encounter, the encounter is immune to daze for 24 seconds but the recast is 45. So we sorta lose out.Blink: Now scales, kinda cool but always ports me somewhere I don't want to be :smileytongue:Sonic Boom: On raids, I rarely used it as you have to be close to mobs. This won't hurt my raid dps 1 bit. Solo/Group dps though takes a HUGE hit. Kinda sad about this but we have like 12+ months before a level cap increase, so I don't think ill be xping at all :smileywink:Last but not least, Mez and Stifle. Sure they took off 10 seconds from our primary mez but after keeping a yellow epic mezzed for 13 seconds, its game changing. If you couldn't beat a mob before, having a chanter there will help you a ton. The Nightblood in HoS will get beat after Lu24, it may take a few weeks but the only way its happening is with an Enchanter(s). Unless SoE makes it so you can have more than 1attempt.Overall grade on changes for Enchanters, especially Coercers from my standpoint : A raidwise B- group F soloAll thats left now is to remove the power drains and replace them with something useful. Maybe a small deaggro ? Idk, id like something cool but would take anything useful that doesn't make me say [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] id rather have the powerdrain instead lol Message Edited by nikecmh42 on 06-07-2006 11:21 PM __________________

06-09-2006, 09:36 AM	#48
xpraetorianx Fansite Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 419	AGI line doesnt affect recast timers, it affects recovery timers, which allow you to cast spells one after another. There needs to be a RECAST AA line... so here is hoping something happens to shorten these... other than troubs I suppose.

06-09-2006, 05:00 PM	#49
Nuhus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,480	I'm posting some selected adept III's from test for the hell of it.. Heres the current as of today. It's a buffed character, I'm sure I could do much better with the stats on live. 6/9/06 I think the Ego line will up our group DPS, but will hurt some on solo DPS (of a single mob and recast stinks) =/ But on test, subject to change. __________________ SOE will kill off EQ2 before it would naturally die.. 11/10/2004-9/19/2010 - for me

06-09-2006, 05:38 PM	#50
Wrapye Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 912	So our target encounter mezz, a now target encounter stun and our main single target stun are much easier for the mobs to resists. This with coercers being the better of the two enchanters at stunning.Blah.I'm not at my game machine at the moment, but I don't recall if Stroke has a harder than usual chance to be resisted on Live like it does on Test now. __________________

06-09-2006, 05:56 PM	#51
Nuhus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,480	sacremon wrote: I'm not at my game machine at the moment, but I don't recall if Stroke has a harder than usual chance to be resisted on Live like it does on Test now. Yeah, I don't think that one has changed just happened to make it into the screenshot. __________________ SOE will kill off EQ2 before it would naturally die.. 11/10/2004-9/19/2010 - for me

06-09-2006, 07:32 PM	#52
JackAll Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 282	Does Stroke interrupt epics on test?