<div></div><img src="http://www.duckandcats.com/images/coercertest.jpg"> Ignore the damage values, I was using links from eq2linky,com on my level 10 coercer on Test. The root portion of the 'hesitation' line doesn't affect epics, but the 'blind' (which is now a daze) does. Mindbend doesn't work on epics, but I don't see why not, as it is just a stun. <div></div><p>Message Edited by sacremon on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:26 PM</span>

<div></div>Thanks for the pics.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   I am very curious to see how these play out when LU24 goes live.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Vak Mallek on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:18 AM</span>

<P>Can someone explain to me two things:</P> <P>a) What possible use is a 2.7 second daze on a raid mob, and</P> <P>b) What the hell are we supposed to use to damage targets now that ego torrent has been completely changed? Bad language?</P> <P>It strikes me that som generic formulae for spell changes have been applied to our spells, to bring us more uniformly in line with illusionists and to nerf the effects of stuns generally. The only problem is noone seems to be looking at the spells for a few seconds with any degree of common sense.</P><p>Message Edited by Anduri on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:10 PM</span>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sacremon wrote:<BR> <BR><BR>The root portion of the 'hesitation' line doesn't affect epics, but the 'blind' (which is now a daze) does.<BR>Mindbend doesn't work on epics, but I don't see why not, as it is just a stun.<BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by sacremon on <SPAN class=date_text>05-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:26 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>mindbend doesn't work because it applies 3 stuns.. yet the epic would be immune after the first time it hit.... kinda pointless to cast it for 1 really short stun on an epic...

As I said, don't look at the damage the spells do, as it was a level 10 coercer looking at them, and int will impact the damage listed (a lot)As far as Mindbend goes, the spell lasts for 72 seconds, and the immunity after a stun would be 12 seconds.  Plenty of time to get in a second or third stun.<div></div>

<DIV>We just been [Removed for Content] ... brutal .... and w/o any lubrucant</DIV>

<P>Even forgeting about the stuns, mez duration is lowered down to below Tier 6 durations.   Spellbind currently has a duration of 45 seconds, now the tier 7 upgrade enrapture lasts 40 seconds, same with with breathtaking awe (T6) currently lasting 22.5 seconds, and the new astonishing awe lasting 20 seconds.  I find that more disheartening then the stun changes personally.</P> <P> </P>

<DIV>Weve been given a way to seriously lower epic mob dps and people moan, well im used to most people left playing my class being morons</DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RatWithGun wrote:<BR> <DIV>Weve been <FONT color=#ff0000>given a way to seriously lower epic mob dps</FONT> and people moan, well im used to most people left playing my class being morons</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Smoking the lead based paint chips is bad for you.

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> It is now easier to see when a mob's mez is broken<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>wounder what they did this time.. thats at the very bottom of the newest test update

<DIV>I've said this before, and I'll say it again... I can only really look on  with a sense of morbid fascination to watch the workings of the devs.  Whereas I can't say that all of these changes are bad, I think that the whole spirit of this patch is wrong.  Nonetheless, I will trudge ever onward...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I must say that I'm interested in how these changes will effect raid strat on the whole though, and to see if I can now be a bigger part than "don't die or do anything, lest we lose your buffs".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Senelin Venelitus</DIV> <DIV>70 Froglok Coercer - Everfrost</DIV>

<P>my issue with the "nerfs" in trade for the "gift" of diminishing epic damage is that we were allready suposed to have this ability. I've allready said in CA forums that I don't think our dps should be nerfed as tradeoff for an ability we should have anyways. our defense is dropped with the increased resistance to mezz and the agro redux decrease/removal from confoundement so lowered dps is just too much.  At this stage most of us are doing at full dps the level of a petclass without counting pet damage (same as us without pet)  this is ballanced dps imo.  we are similarly matched in utility and defense to a petclass.  Yes they are getting nerfed as well but I don't know the details of their situation only the constant waa our conj has been putting out as he smacks 1.4k dps with pet.  </P> <P>We have lower dps than the offensive sumoners and far lower than the sorcerers for our utilty and CC (reasonably so).  We couldnt CC to any extent that justfied our lowered dps (on raids).. this fix come out to rebalance, and our dps and defenses take a hit... my point in short we should have this ability with our balanced dps (no pet on raids so don't start with charm dps owns all bow down, hint hint tantalus) compaired to similar utilty/deffence mages.  </P> <P>so the comment about us being morons or idiots because we should swoon over epic stuns/mezzes we should allready have is a reflection upon that posters inability to look past their own happy kiddy pool.  </P>

Also, some of us just plain don't care about being able to mez/stun/stifle an epic mob. I've done the hardcore raider thing in other MMORPGs and raided casually here, and based on that experience I don't really have any desire to seriously raid in this game. So, for me and anyone else who feels the same way, this patch is just going to be massive nerfs with no improvements at all (and I don't mean to imply that the changes balance out for raiders, either; has it even been determined yet whether or not stun/stifle will actually stop epic mob innate/timed abilities, or just delay them for the duration of the CC effect?).

<DIV>epic "timed" abilities are slightly randomized... they can be timed with margin of error but they do not go off exatly 30s like clockwork.. for example could be anywhere from 20s to 45 just example.. So Im inferring a mezz/stun would just delay that but its only speculation</DIV>

Epic timed abilities get thrown even further out of whack by the rogue's last ability in the STR line, which increases the mob's recast timers.I hope that stun/mez/stifle don't impact those timers, as they really shouldn't.  If the mob is scripted to use an ability within a certain time or time range, then it should try, if able, unless the recast timers have specifically been extended.  If it tries to cast but can't because it is stunned, then that is one of the reasons to stun the mob in the first place.<div></div>

<div><blockquote><hr>RatWithGun wrote:<div>Weve been given a way to seriously lower epic mob dps and people moan, well im used to most people left playing my class being morons</div><hr></blockquote>Don't you love it how some people contribute almost nothing to the community.  They never give any feedback to the devs they don't contribute on the test server.  Then when they finally do say something it's a gem like this.</div>

I'd like to know exactly they are nerfing our deepees?  According to the pic up there ego torrent became an encounter based aoe nuke, not single as it was before.  Those dmg values on pic are wrong since the original poster stated that its on a lvl 10 player than he took those screenshots. 

<DIV>Exactly how they nerfing DPS? </DIV> <DIV>Here is we go ... we losing 50% DPS on Sonic Boom (recast increase by 50% .... damage is not changed)</DIV> <DIV>we losing 75% DPS on Ego Torent (recast 2X, damage 1/2 vs. single target)</DIV>

<DIV>After re-reading ego torrent it seems they changed it from just root to more utility based aoe spell that stops a mobs auto-atk dmg.  It will suck when you gota solo since they removed the root portion of this spell.  I dont use sonic boom twice in an encounter with the current casting time, only during named raid mobs so no biggie.</DIV>

<DIV>Why not? Sonic Boom with right set of AA have casting time 1.6s</DIV>

<DIV>Heres a thought.......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since every epic encounter in the game is beatable without any CC at all right now, why suddenly give enchanters the ability to do let out short stuns and stuff? The only encoutner i can see this helping on is the blob dragon in DT. On everything else i really dont see any point to it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean, theres no reason to mezz an epic, since the mezz will be broken anyway. And with that ONE exception mentioned above, it cant be used as part of a strat cuz the duration is too short and the immunity timers are too long. And as for the other CC....why even bother stunning and stifling a mob that can already be beaten as is? Being able to use CC on epics is really overrated, since all epics have been designed to be killed without it.</DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sacremon wrote:<BR>Epic timed abilities get thrown even further out of whack by the rogue's last ability in the STR line, which increases the mob's recast timers.<BR><BR>I hope that stun/mez/stifle don't impact those timers, as they really shouldn't.  If the mob is scripted to use an ability within a certain time or time range, then it should try, if able, unless the recast timers have specifically been extended.  If it tries to cast but can't because it is stunned, then that is one of the reasons to stun the mob in the first place.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They will impact the timer, because if a mob is stunned or stifled, it will try to cast that spell, however it can't.  When the stun/stifle wears off, it'll still be trying to cast it, and then it will cast.  This is the way things worked in before LU13, though it isn't how it works against heroic mobs that have aoes.  Soo, who knows.  If it works so that you time the stun/stifle before the AoE goes off, and then it doesn't try to cast it, then yah, I'd be all down for this and think it'd be awesome.  But if it doesn't, :

/agrees with Pinski, a good coercer on raids would be able to time the AoE (assuming they come regularly) and prevent them first time by a stun (120 s immunity to stun), next a root (24 s immunity to daze effects) and lastly a stifle (42 s immunity). These are all 3 different kinds of immunities. Question is if this screws up jousting by making it more unpredictable....IF these can actually prevent the AoE effects instead of just postponing them coercers will be very desired indeed for raiding. Coercers should probably not even get used to this new role cause a nerf will follow surely. Then again, making epics cast AoE on random timer will make it more of a pure luck to prevent a AoE and the stun/stifle would be more like a general ward, i.e. prevent damage. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out, change is interesting I think, and unlike many on these boards I do think SOE devs are very intelligent people who happen to have a much larger perspective on this game than the single player. I would love to see the global game stats for one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Us mere mortals may be confounded by their actions sometimes. Still think that it would have been more interesting raid experience if some combinaiton of skills (like the HO's) would open up epic immunity to stun/stifle/mez so that these could land without the 1/3 duration decrease they get now. It would just make everything much more interesting, more cooperative and communicative. It doesn't add much fun if the only difference now will be that we have to spam stuns and stifles like those dps classes we decided not to become ;-PRaukhur, Coercer lvl 70, SplitpawThe Dark Vengeance<p>Message Edited by norberg02 on <span class=date_text>05-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:29 AM</span>

<div><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<div>Exactly how they nerfing DPS? </div> <div>Here is we go ... we losing 50% DPS on Sonic Boom (recast increase by 50% .... damage is not changed)</div> <div>we losing 75% DPS on Ego Torent (recast 2X, damage 1/2 vs. single target)</div><hr></blockquote>You forgot to mention the increase in power cost of several spells.They also reduced stuntimes ... again. It's a bit cynical that they reduce stun times after each expansion that increases them on new spells. That's crap.I feel like levelling up for nothing ... yay 6 seconds stun? I was able to do that when I was around 30 before LU 13. And now I'm close to 70. Same with mez durations ... why do they increase it just to nerf us again?</div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ulrick85 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> It is now easier to see when a mob's mez is broken<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>wounder what they did this time.. thats at the very bottom of the newest test update<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They added a message that says something like "so and so has awoken <name>" or something of the sort from what I've heard.

<DIV>Basically they are trying to address CC in general. Totally revamping everything. They made it so it is easier to see the mez effect and a message as well. I hope they add a filter option for it....</DIV>

I agree with most of the statements here... I quit the game back in December, but had heard good things and decided to give it a try once again, and then hear about this upcoming LU and *Flash* I'm right back at why I quit in the first place. I will hang around tho until the LU goes live, and if it's the complete garbage that it 'reads' like, then well. I'll express my opinion in the manor that SONY understands mostly, Cancelling my account, and keeping my money out of their coffers.Coercer's are getting hammered all the way around on everything here... I cannot see how any of these changes makes anything "better", it's all one huge nerf.Anyway, just my 2 cp, was fun being back for a bit, but probably going to be time to go again.

<DIV>I love how they announce it as a boost and then turn it into a massive nerf. I mean ooh ahh 13 sec mez with no recast on raids gained, everything else [Removed for Content]. Seriously, no one cares about 13 seconds of mez. 2 big nerfs in a row to our DPS with the spell casting proc changes and now the changes to sonic boom and ego torrent. Hell, those were the spells that didn't have their proc rate completely ruined, too.</DIV>

<DIV>It's pretty clear to me that the onset of these changes can be directly traced back to the Achievement point system as a whole.  Did you really think AA's would come into this game without some type of balancing act?  Devs had 2 options; 1) Change the encounter makeup and increase difficulty or 2) Implement a minor Combat Update.  It's pretty obvious they opted for #2.  This patch is nothing more than CU2.  In the short term, until we have all of our AA's, we'll feel less than optimal, yet after we max AA we'll be right back where we started from.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something I've noticed about this game and it's players is that everything is either nerf'd or overpowered.  Just roll with it; adjust your tactics and keep going =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>^^^  Oh look!  Another one!</DIV>