Manaburn Feedback (Post 11/12/06)

[Zyphius]

Also, I want to see exact power numbers used for each hit, verbatim. If I can see PROOF that on low power, it still hits for 30k+, then I will shut up. Currently all I still see is damage numbers and CLAIMS of power. I need proof that disputes my beta findings.

 

Oh, and if you still have 1/3 power on an 8k power pool at the end of a named, you aren't doing the dps you should be throughout the fight. The reason Illu, others and I (only when I have really good hate reduction, which is only part of the time) tend to always be at or near the top of the parse, is because we don't hold back, ever. We burn the hell out of our power doing that most damage we possibly can. At the end of a named, we are, pretty much, OOP. You show me a MB, with 1k (maximum) power left, and hit for those numbers, I will shut up, and train the ability, and no longer curse SoE for such a useless ability that shames the word "Manaburn". And yes, only named's apply. I always top the parse on trash with IN and Fusion (the other classes that have the ability to shame our dps hold out for nameds).

[ItsMrHarris2u]

How about you pay the 1cp to respec your wizard tree and test it yourself.  I believe we've already done enough of the work for you.  Test it, bring your findings here, then complain/praise it.

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putergod wrote:

Also, I want to see exact power numbers used for each hit, verbatim. If I can see PROOF that on low power, it still hits for 30k+, then I will shut up. Currently all I still see is damage numbers and CLAIMS of power. I need proof that disputes my beta findings.

 

Oh, and if you still have 1/3 power on an 8k power pool at the end of a named, you aren't doing the dps you should be throughout the fight. The reason Illu, others and I (only when I have really good hate reduction, which is only part of the time) tend to always be at or near the top of the parse, is because we don't hold back, ever. We burn the hell out of our power doing that most damage we possibly can. At the end of a named, we are, pretty much, OOP. You show me a MB, with 1k (maximum) power left, and hit for those numbers, I will shut up, and train the ability, and no longer curse SoE for such a useless ability that shames the word "Manaburn". And yes, only named's apply. I always top the parse on trash with IN and Fusion (the other classes that have the ability to shame our dps hold out for nameds).

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[IllusiveThoughts]

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ItsMrHarris2u wrote:

ok, i promised a screenie... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] me for not getting the killshot and a mana pic, but here is a parse example.

Ok, so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'n's have stupid dps, especially on these fast fights, so ignore the middle two poons.  I'm the wizzie on top, the wizzie below me had pretty much identical dps right up till the last 7 seconds...

This was about 1/3rd power remaining, can't exactly recall and the screenie hit when manaburn had already landed, so i failed there... but i was clearly not at full mana, or how would i have done 60k+ w/out the manaburn.

Anyway... what Debah and I have been saying and showing are facts, what most others keep posting are opinions and theories.  I'm still willing to bet that most of you will have this ability trained before long.

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than you for posting this info it gives some insite to your point of view.

Now when I examine that and read your explenation it doesn't add up, so I need a few more specifics.

I've never (and i mean never) burned through 2/3 of my power in 30 seconds of fighting.  So we have to assume then that this was a trash mob, most likely solo trash mob, and your guild was chain pulling to make you at 1/3 of your power at the end of the 30s when you hit manaburn.

So assuming those variables, what was your parse for the NEXT fight?

[Dejah]

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putergod wrote:

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electricninjasex wrote:

We need to know the context of the situation.  You say you never manaburned at full power, but you didn't say what power you *did* manaburn on, or what specific mob you were fighting.  Stellar performance against a trash mob or weak named isn't going to give us the most reliable insight when we have mobs like Matron on our plate.

Now you may say, no, it's a tool not a panacea.  But does it mitigate those problem areas where we'd desire it in its best form?

Message Edited by electricninjasex on 12-02-2006 06:57 AM

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QFE.

This is the most important aspect of your entire post (to me anyway) Dejah.

Oh... And I thouroughly tested MB with my debuffs... and the damage never changed. It was a flat rate of 5xPower, unmitigatable up or down.

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Manaburn was always affected by MAGIC debuffs since I was invited into beta about a month before EoF went live.  Either they changed this after you did your tests, and before I was invited, or you did something seriously wrong. 

[Dejah]

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putergod wrote:

Also, I want to see exact power numbers used for each hit, verbatim. If I can see PROOF that on low power, it still hits for 30k+, then I will shut up. Currently all I still see is damage numbers and CLAIMS of power. I need proof that disputes my beta findings.

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Here's the thing.  I don't need to prove anything to you, because I could care less if you change your mind and go get Manaburn.  Hell, it would tickle my fancy if I was the only wizard out there that spec'd for this build.  I could go back through my logs, parse up the entire thing, find which fights had the manaburns, and extract out the durations.  I could even show my over-all damage and durations for those fights.  But I'm not going to do that because convincing you is, well, a waste of my time.   If you want proof, go spec it yourself and try it out.

I have Manaburn.  I use Manaburn regularly.  I find Manaburn useful in its current form.  That is my feedback to the devs. 

[Sant]

Im with you Dejah, I have been using manaburn for 3 levels now and every group  im in is constantly wowed by what i can do with it.

[Zyphius]

Ok Dejah... Then I guess it is safe to assume you are talking out of your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and everything y'all said is BS.

 

If you want to be a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], so can I.

[Dejah]

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putergod wrote:

Ok Dejah... Then I guess it is safe to assume you are talking out of your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and everything y'all said is BS.

 

If you want to be a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], so can I.

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I'm sorry that my disinterest in your ability to play the wizard class makes me a haxx0red expletive in your eyes.  But I didn't post here to argue one play style over another.  I only posted because this is a feedback thread for Manaburn and I wanted to give my feedback.   If you choose not to believe my numbers are genuine, then go spec Manaburn and generate your own numbers.  You have the ability to test it out for yourself, and come to your own conclusions.  I don't know how you tested it on beta, but you should probably do your tests again since you failed to notice that debuffs affect Manaburn's damage.

[Nastharl]

Hail to Dejah.It doesn't matter to me weather you're right or not, I'm inspired to try and go get it now Granted i have a long ways, but ya it seems cool With any kinda respectable regen , seems like you could burn it towards the end of a named if you know the rest of your big nukes are gonna be down.... Fusion on recharge + IN on recharge + 5 % =Burn time

[Silentsta]

Zone wide parse.  Manaburn will up your numbers in the new raid zones that you are takeing your time in, this affects the 5min recast and gives you more time to up your power between fights.  Old zones that your guild chain pulls and just kills for the status/loot to brake down for adornments, your zone wide parse goes down.This is one skill that every wizard in the game is not going to benifit from.  Raid set ups and overall raid dps (how fast your raid goes through the zone) is going to play a major role in which wizards find MB as a dps increase and which ones find it as a decrease.  Conculsion: Both sides of the arguement can be correct.  IMO, lifeburn is better.  Dont nerf lifeburn, bring manaburn up a bit to equal it.

[bas]

Exactly, a guild that chain pulls and almost always has mobs in camp, manaburn will totally useless for that wizard.  You will use manaburn on 1 fight, then the next fight your dps will drop to like 700-900 because your trying to get power back the entire fight.. then the next few fights you will still have low dps till you can get your power back.  Then use manaburn again and its a repeat cycle. 

 

If your guild takes 5 minutes between epic pulls.. Then you might actually find Manaburn useful cause you actually have time to grab power back, and trash mobs dont really matter.  On any named fight, ill end up with no more then 20% power, depending on what fight it is.  The 7 seconds it takes to cast manaburn, i could already have been casting a critted fusion, and have ice nova incoming, and still have more power to nuke for that last couple %.  All that would still add up to the damage you got from manaburn at 20% and still have power to nuke if you didnt use it.

 

/shrug, i find it useless...

Message Edited by basik on 12-03-2006 03:33 PM

[Kamelkurt]

The thing I really don't like about Manaburn, is the 30 sec immunity the mob gains after being hit by one. I guess most wizards would do the same thing I would, and save Manaburn for when a named Epic mob is pulled. Then wait for the mob to reach 10% HP or so, and start casting it. If there is more than one wizard in the raid with Manaburn, one of them will just end up with a big fat message saying "Spell will not take effect", and have wasted 7 seconds on absolutely nothing.I understand the reason SoE made the affected mob gain immunity (to prevent raids with 24 wizards), but with 30 seconds immunity, having more than one wizard in the raid with this spell, would be a complete waste of AA points, wouldn't it?

[Nastharl]

You guys are kinda missing his point. Yes at 20% power you can let off and IN and a fusion? Why manaburn instead? uhhhDontIN Fusion then manaburn the rest off.

[KillerMojo]

The most I have ever seen an Ice Nova land for is 21K, and that is on a mob that is severly debuffed.  At my 520 int (yeah i know it sucks but I just hit 70), my Ice Nova does just over 9K but I have seen it close to 11K with enough int.  Ok, so with debuffs you gained 10K damage.  I am sure the wizard's Ice Nova was higher, but we'll use 11K for arguement sake.  That's almost 100% increase in damage.

Now, if you have:

10K power and are at 1/3, you have 3,333 power. 

3,333 power x 5 = 16665 X 2 (100% increase) = 33330 damage. 

Now, I know that number is high but it's base on a couple thing that are definately favouring manaburn: 

#1, used 10K power not 8K, which increase damage.

#2, Ice Nova should be higher and probably used a Freehand Sorcery to get 21K which means the increase from debuffs ins't 100%, more like 50%, if that. 

If we factor all that in, there is no way that you would be able to mathematically do 30K damage off of 1/3 power to a mob that is even heavily debuffed. 

1/3 of 8K = 2.4K x 5 = 12K * 1.50(additional 50%) = 18K which seems more of the real deal.  

Even if you add 100% to that from debuffs, you only do 24K.  Not even 1K less mana when burning has that much of a difference on the end result.  All I can say is If you can do it, prove it.  If you don't want to prove it, then don't blame us for siding with logic as the proof is in the math.

Message Edited by KillerMojo on 12-04-2006 06:32 AM

[Demens]

To prove manaburn's usefulness and your point we need xxx mana did xxx damage against xxx mob.Personally i'm only interested in named raid mobs. Trash is exactly that and with very few exceptions heroics are a walk in the park for raid equiped groups.

[IllusiveThoughts]

So I decided to respec and give manaburn another go(just hit 21st eof aa yesterday).  Dehah's one of the few wizards who's opinion I trust, and i'm going to give it some time and thorough testing before I make any decisions on which way to go.

I'll report back with my findings.

I've done 2 group instances so far Crypt of valdoon and Oblisk of blight.

The thing I can tell you about manaburn, is that the 50% hp restriction seems to be the TOTAL HP in the encounter.  So for instance valdoon has an add (pet) and I MB him more than half his hp (killed him at 60%) hit for 35k or something like that, My self buffed power now with power line is almost 8200 (fortify elements with 5 points is 637 i believe-and vital conversion is 473 power back, also cardinal with KOS aa's takes 2.7 seconds to cast- only 3 points in this)

Also went to oblisk, and MB the final named.  Was with guild group, and had an illusionist with arcane debuff, and he also used perpetuality to get a t7 hex doll on mob.  I manaburned him for 51k, took me down to 6% power from full.  I also did about 75% of his health in damage. 

If we work the numbers (illusionist debuff 930ish - T7 hex 730ish = 1650ish magic debuff) 8190 power total and MB consumed 7698.6 power, so the un-debuffed manaburn should of hit for 38493, but with -1650 to magic it hit for 51k, which added approx 12507 to MB damage or about 24% more dmg.

We'll see how it works out with raiding this week.  I can say that 473 power back from vital conversion is very nice, and will come in quite handy on 3+ min fights.

The way I see it now, is burn through power like usual, then when raid mob gets to say 20-15% (depending on dps) vital conversion, + cardinal +any power clickies then manaburn, and if mob still up vital conversion and bol.  but i'm sure i'll find other ways to try to maximize its use and report back.

[Elra]

just a quick note: Its extremely nice against mobs with curse of insanity (for kill shots). Extremely situational? Maybe, but its just an AA.

[KillerMojo]

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

So I decided to respec and give manaburn another go(just hit 21st eof aa yesterday).  Dehah's one of the few wizards who's opinion I trust, and i'm going to give it some time and thorough testing before I make any decisions on which way to go.

I'll report back with my findings.

I've done 2 group instances so far Crypt of valdoon and Oblisk of blight.

The thing I can tell you about manaburn, is that the 50% hp restriction seems to be the TOTAL HP in the encounter.  So for instance valdoon has an add (pet) and I MB him more than half his hp (killed him at 60%) hit for 35k or something like that, My self buffed power now with power line is almost 8200 (fortify elements with 5 points is 637 i believe-and vital conversion is 473 power back, also cardinal with KOS aa's takes 2.7 seconds to cast- only 3 points in this)

Also went to oblisk, and MB the final named.  Was with guild group, and had an illusionist with arcane debuff, and he also used perpetuality to get a t7 hex doll on mob.  I manaburned him for 51k, took me down to 6% power from full.  I also did about 75% of his health in damage. 

If we work the numbers (illusionist debuff 930ish - T7 hex 730ish = 1650ish magic debuff) 8190 power total and MB consumed 7698.6 power, so the un-debuffed manaburn should of hit for 38493, but with -1650 to magic it hit for 51k, which added approx 12507 to MB damage or about 24% more dmg.

We'll see how it works out with raiding this week.  I can say that 473 power back from vital conversion is very nice, and will come in quite handy on 3+ min fights.

The way I see it now, is burn through power like usual, then when raid mob gets to say 20-15% (depending on dps) vital conversion, + cardinal +any power clickies then manaburn, and if mob still up vital conversion and bol.  but i'm sure i'll find other ways to try to maximize its use and report back.

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Very interesting Illu.  I wonder how much this would have done with a Dispatch and other debuffs besides the illusionist one and the T7 Hex Doll.  Next time you are in a fight thought, I would like to see you do as some people say, and burn with 1/3 power and try and get 30K+ hits.  I want to see if what they say is possible.

[Fews]

Well, I haven't tried a respec to MB yet, but I will try it. Hey I am one of those wizards who have four times respeced out of my preferred class AA setup at 10 plat each. So I like emprical tests.

 

As of right now without MB, I have gotten(last night...will check eq2players for it.but doubt that makes it into top 100) a 58.8K hit with Ball of Lava on a named epic x4 vampire in Mistmore Inner Chambers.

 

Given current raid zones MB may have certain appeal if it really hits hard when mob is debuffed.

 

What doesn't work on/with MB as far as people know? I assume freehand sorcery doesn't. Can MB crit?

 

Message Edited by Fewson on 12-04-2006 11:04 AM

[ItsMrHarris2u]

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

So I decided to respec and give manaburn another go(just hit 21st eof aa yesterday).  Dehah's one of the few wizards who's opinion I trust, and i'm going to give it some time and thorough testing before I make any decisions on which way to go.

I'll report back with my findings.

I've done 2 group instances so far Crypt of valdoon and Oblisk of blight.

The thing I can tell you about manaburn, is that the 50% hp restriction seems to be the TOTAL HP in the encounter.  So for instance valdoon has an add (pet) and I MB him more than half his hp (killed him at 60%) hit for 35k or something like that, My self buffed power now with power line is almost 8200 (fortify elements with 5 points is 637 i believe-and vital conversion is 473 power back, also cardinal with KOS aa's takes 2.7 seconds to cast- only 3 points in this)

Also went to oblisk, and MB the final named.  Was with guild group, and had an illusionist with arcane debuff, and he also used perpetuality to get a t7 hex doll on mob.  I manaburned him for 51k, took me down to 6% power from full.  I also did about 75% of his health in damage. 

If we work the numbers (illusionist debuff 930ish - T7 hex 730ish = 1650ish magic debuff) 8190 power total and MB consumed 7698.6 power, so the un-debuffed manaburn should of hit for 38493, but with -1650 to magic it hit for 51k, which added approx 12507 to MB damage or about 24% more dmg.

We'll see how it works out with raiding this week.  I can say that 473 power back from vital conversion is very nice, and will come in quite handy on 3+ min fights.

The way I see it now, is burn through power like usual, then when raid mob gets to say 20-15% (depending on dps) vital conversion, + cardinal +any power clickies then manaburn, and if mob still up vital conversion and bol.  but i'm sure i'll find other ways to try to maximize its use and report back.

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After pages of flaming me, you are finally going to try actual in game testing over theories... good.  It's just too bad it took a few days of argueing and a second opinion.  Now it's Putergod's turn.

[IllusiveThoughts]

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ItsMrHarris2u wrote:

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

So I decided to respec and give manaburn another go

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After pages of flaming me, you are finally going to try actual in game testing over theories... good.  It's just too bad it took a few days of argueing and a second opinion.  Now it's Putergod's turn.

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The flames attached to your posts were because you didn't provide a shred of proof, I honestly dont know you, your a relative newbie to the forums (sorry if that title offends you take it up with SOE).

I do trust dehah's opinion, and his post made me re-consider trying manaburn AGAIN on live.

I will go into more detail on how effective mana burn will be for me than simply stating I find it useful (if I conclude so) For raiding, soloing, and also grouping.

I have already provided #'s for the analytical folks to start doing some calculations based on my group experience.  I'll post the zone parses from those group instances soon enough.  In oblisk manaburn accounted for 11% of my dps.  I do not recall how much valdoon it accounted for, but I basically used it when it was available, and saved it if we were close to a named.

So in otherwords, if there is some usefulness to this abilty, I'll try to provide PROOF of its usefull ness and share it with the rest of teh community

Some other interesting tid-bits about manaburn with Spellshaping, and spellshifting (12% faster recast and 14.4% haste)

manaburn's re-use is 4 min 28 sec

manaburn's cast time is 5.28 sec.

Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 12-04-2006 11:32 AM

Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 12-04-2006 11:35 AM

[Fews]

Myself I just ignore flames.

 

My read of all of this is that

        a) some people have found MB useful in their play

        b) some people have not found it useful in beta

        c) some people think in theory it isn't useful

 

I think it is good that some of group A have strongly tried to evangilize the usefulness of it.

 

I think it is also good that people in B and C have pushed back. That is called debate, and the fact that people in A just

didn't fold up and go away, means that they both think they are right, and have enough backbone to keep saying so without just rote repetition.

 

The fact illusive is trying it out shows he isn't just a stubborn ....

 

The fact I am trying it out, well I try lots of things out and felt all along there may be some situations MB fits in and many it wouldn't, and you can see that in the tone of all my posts. My original take is that only a noob would go for it, because it didn't seem to add much bang. But having done most of the raid zones and killed a lot of named without it, I am interested in trying it...because I know what it "may" do in our raiding situations, and therefore it may be of value.

 

Would be nice if it proves to be a viable choice.

 

For grouping it's just a big showy spell for an end-game raid equipped group which is all I end up grouping with, not of real value for me there.

 

For solo? Well it can speed up the root and nuke of named group mob. But I raid more than I solo.

 

So for me my testing is whether it is of value in a raid environment, I can find that out in a week test of the raid zones. Yeah we raid every night,

 

 

 

Message Edited by Fewson on 12-04-2006 12:23 PM

[ItsMrHarris2u]

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

The flames attached to your posts were because you didn't provide a shred of proof, I honestly dont know you, your a relative newbie to the forums (sorry if that title offends you take it up with SOE).

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maybe you didn't really read my posts then.  Honestly, everyone of them was examples of how I personally had used manaburn in game, actual examples... I even posted a parse screenie... actual data...  some would call this proof.  Your replies (and many others) to all my actual in game examples were theories of why my actual examples wouldn't work...when I was using them even as you posted... If you want to ignore me and listen to Debah, fine... the important thing is that I revitalized this thread to give the DEVELOPERS feedback on the usefulness of manaburn, and as a result, more wizzies are beginning to train it.

[IllusiveThoughts]

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ItsMrHarris2u wrote:

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

The flames attached to your posts were because you didn't provide a shred of proof, I honestly dont know you, your a relative newbie to the forums (sorry if that title offends you take it up with SOE).

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maybe you didn't really read my posts then.  Honestly, everyone of them was examples of how I personally had used manaburn in game, actual examples... I even posted a parse screenie... actual data...  some would call this proof.  Your replies (and many others) to all my actual in game examples were theories of why my actual examples wouldn't work...when I was using them even as you posted... If you want to ignore me and listen to Debah, fine... the important thing is that I revitalized this thread to give the DEVELOPERS feedback on the usefulness of manaburn, and as a result, more wizzies are beginning to train it.

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sigh, how about we just leave the past posts...in the past!  I really dont feel like having to argue with you again over your posts about manaburn, when I'm currently testing its usefulness.

[ItsMrHarris2u]

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

sigh, how about we just leave the past posts...in the past!  I really dont feel like having to argue with you again over your posts about manaburn, when I'm currently testing its usefulness.

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Now we're on the same page.  Debah opened this thread to provide us a place to show actual in game examples and data.  Let's us it for that and that alone.  *shakes hands w/ Illu*

I posted the examples of how i had used manaburn on solo, grp and raid mobs as a guide for others who had just trained it.  Maybe you can give them a shot in game and help us polish up these strategies for the general wizzie population...

[Sliverhammer]

Well, I like Manaburn. One in every 5-6 fights I can tope DPS with it, but also take note that sometiems I can use MB and still come 4-5th.Take the Fire/Ice lines, you'll ensure steady reliabe and high DPS.On the last FTH raid I hit a mob for 76.8k damage. probably had about 92% power, with a total of 7.4k power when I'm topped.Manaburn is doing over 50% damage after modifiers, my testing shows that the restriction is counting to the unmodified damage, and any extra you can get by debuffs is adding just fine over and above the max.On the worldwide Wizard magical highest hits, you'll see me in at number 53ish, you will also note that the first 50 or so places are gained through exploits or code failures which range from 200k to over a million damage. Then you will see the Manaburn numbers apear, the top so far is around 80K. Actually I don't know if the list has been updated yet, but my personal pages show the hit, and my rank, just not yet displayed on the worldwide list.Go forth, have fun, I experimented, and I am satisfied.SilverwolfAllureNajena

[Dejah]

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

I will go into more detail on how effective mana burn will be for me than simply stating I find it useful (if I conclude so) For raiding, soloing, and also grouping.

Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 12-04-200611:32 AM

Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 12-04-200611:35 AM

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Haha.  I have my methods, ask Illuminator how much of a PITA I am.  Let's just say, I'm protective of my class because it is a popular choice for new players.  I'm not just going to hand the keys to DPS over to anyone, what is the fun in that?  I won't stop or complain if someone else takes it upon themselves to do it though.

How about a cryptic tip?

When Manaburn is up you'd be wise to cast the ability with virtualy no power cost more often than you would otherwise.

Meditate on that, but don't think too hard, that could be painful. :smileywink:

[Dejah]

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Sliverhammer wrote:

Manaburn is doing over 50% damage after modifiers, my testing shows that the restriction is counting to the unmodified damage, and any extra you can get by debuffs is adding just fine over and above the max.

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This is what I have observed as well.

[IllusiveThoughts]

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Dejah wrote:

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

I will go into more detail on how effective mana burn will be for me than simply stating I find it useful (if I conclude so) For raiding, soloing, and also grouping.

Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 12-04-200611:32 AM

Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 12-04-200611:35 AM

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Haha.  I have my methods, ask Illuminator how much of a PITA I am.  Let's just say, I'm protective of my class because it is a popular choice for new players.  I'm not just going to hand the keys to DPS over to anyone, what is the fun in that?  I won't stop or complain if someone else takes it upon themselves to do it though.

How about a cryptic tip?

When Manaburn is up you'd be wise to cast the ability with virtualy no power cost more often than you would otherwise.

Meditate on that, but don't think too hard, that could be painful. :smileywink:

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to each their own i guess.

I prefer to share my knowledge with the community.  Good , bad, or otherwise.

[Zyphius]

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ItsMrHarris2u wrote:

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

The flames attached to your posts were because you didn't provide a shred of proof, I honestly dont know you, your a relative newbie to the forums (sorry if that title offends you take it up with SOE).

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maybe you didn't really read my posts then.  Honestly, everyone of them was examples of how I personally had used manaburn in game, actual examples... I even posted a parse screenie... actual data...  some would call this proof.  Your replies (and many others) to all my actual in game examples were theories of why my actual examples wouldn't work...when I was using them even as you posted... If you want to ignore me and listen to Debah, fine... the important thing is that I revitalized this thread to give the DEVELOPERS feedback on the usefulness of manaburn, and as a result, more wizzies are beginning to train it.

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I saw nothing showing the ACTUAL amount of power you had when it was cast. I believe that is all I asked for.

I know Illu will post his power numbers and hits (and will provide exactly what I need to make an INFORM decision on MB on live), and if it is indeed capable of what a couple of you have claimed, then I will give it a try. I don't have enough EoF AA on live yet to respec to it, so I will monitor Illu's post about it (he is the wizard I trust the most to provide 100% accurate data - sorry, but I haven't seen you around very long).