<DIV>Manaburn was updated today. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/biohazard/1112_Power_Manaburn.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've verified the new behavior except for the immunity timer.  I like these new changes.  I'll get to do something other than just Manaburn for a named in an instance now.  There is just one piece still missing from the puzzle:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make it do more damage power power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now that these other measures are in place, I really don't think increasing the damage per power would imbalance this ability at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For soloers:  An increase in Damage Per Power just means that the spell takes up less power than it would have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For groupers: An increase in Damage Per Power just means that the spell takes up less power than it would have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For raiders: An increase in Damage Per Power means that it will useful to cast in more situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>An increase in Damage Per Power won't really affect the soloer or grouper much as they will still most likely be hitting the 50% cap; an increase in Damage Per Power will only really affect a raider.  The new Damage Per Power rating should be less than the average Damage Per Power rating of a wizard, because we don't want the optimal way to burn all of our mana to be through Manaburn;  Figure out what the average Damage Per Power rating of a wizard is, and then pick a value between 5 Damage Per Power and that value, and I think this spell will be golden.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah, the Power Line requirement for Manaburn is still 20 points (80% of power line), still seems like that is too much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For those who haven't been apart of the Manaburn discussion, here's why I think these new restrictions to Manaburn are a good thing:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Must be hated by your current target.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>This is good because it prevents caster from just one shotting heroic mobs.  Errr, wait, they have a 50% cap now.  Hmmm, I guess this restriction isn't really needed anymore. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Manaburn's damage cannot exceed 50% of the target's maximum health.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>With out this restriction the spell could one-shot green-con heroic named, and could one-shot white-con heroic non-named.  This is not desirable for a few reasons.  Plat farms is one reason; we don't need plat farming wizards camping named mobs with little to no risk due to this one ability.  Challenge and fun factor is another reason; seriously... how much fun is doing an instance when you just about kill the boss by pressing one button; I don't find that much fun, and I doubt my group mates find that much fun.  Last reason, with this cap in place they can make Manaburn do more damage per power.  With out this cap they couldn't raise the damage per power because then wizards would be one-shotting white-con heroic named, which is obviously way overpowered.  With this cap in place, they can make this spell do more damage per power, making it a more viable for raiding.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Applies Manaburn Immunity. Lasts 30.0 seconds.  Manaburn cannot be cast on an enemy that has recently been Manaburned.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>This is to prevent wizard death squads from forming.  No 24 wizard raids burning mobs down before they blink.</DIV>

<div></div>Thanks for the recap!I havent tried Manaburn myself. Could anyone explain how this works? From what i read u get 5 point of damage for every power point burned. Say with 6K of mana would mean a hit for 30K, is that assuming right? Is this combined with a regular spell like Nova which adds to dmg or is it a seperate dmg spell?If i assume changes correctly i can also see problems with more than one wizard in group/raid. Wasting concusive on a mob that is immune etc.<div></div><p>Message Edited by justright on <span class=date_text>11-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:37 AM</span>

agreed... they changed manaburn now all they need to do is up the damage....if not still useless.

<DIV>I can't really think of anything positive to say about this AA option anymore</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when it costed 15 points in power AA tree it was a viable option for a raiding wizard imo @ 20 points it is a waste of time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All of the sub clauses and limitations are being brought in for pvp. Yes i can see the arguement of 6 wizards roaming around killing one heroic named every 3 mins chaining 6 manaburns...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SO WHAT !! Your telling me you cant do that already with catalyst fh ice nova ?? but every minute instead</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ShaneFalco wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SO WHAT !! Your telling me you cant do that already with catalyst fh ice nova ?? but every minute instead</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>QFE!</P> <P>And that's why manaburn is still not useful compared to what we can already do for cheaper mana.<BR></P>

Yup, completely and utterly worthless... in ANY capacity...<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Must be hated by your current target.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>This is good because it prevents caster from just one shotting heroic mobs.  Errr, wait, they have a 50% cap now.  Hmmm, I guess this restriction isn't really needed anymore. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>This I could live with... BEFORE the other nerfs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Manaburn's damage cannot exceed 50% of the target's maximum health.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>With out this restriction the spell could one-shot green-con heroic named, and could one-shot white-con heroic non-named.  This is not desirable for a few reasons.  Plat farms is one reason; we don't need plat farming wizards camping named mobs with little to no risk due to this one ability.  Challenge and fun factor is another reason; seriously... how much fun is doing an instance when you just about kill the boss by pressing one button; I don't find that much fun, and I doubt my group mates find that much fun.  Last reason, with this cap in place they can make Manaburn do more damage per power.  With out this cap they couldn't raise the damage per power because then wizards would be one-shotting white-con heroic named, which is obviously way overpowered.  With this cap in place, they can make this spell do more damage per power, making it a more viable for raiding.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Makes it worthless. We get one shotted... so what [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing difference does it make? It's ok for us to get one shotted, in both PVP and PVE but it isn't ok for us to do it back? That's bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. The first restriction was a starter to keep it from being a farming tool. If root resisted, then manaburn wasn't going to save you. And the other smart thing to do would have been up the reuse timer a little (or more than a little with a damage increase).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Applies Manaburn Immunity. Lasts 30.0 seconds.  Manaburn cannot be cast on an enemy that has recently been Manaburned.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>This is to prevent wizard death squads from forming.  No 24 wizard raids burning mobs down before they blink.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Ontop of the other changes, this is the stupidest thing in the world. Without the other changes, I don't see an issue here.</FONT></DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I wont be wasting my points on this useless ability.</P> <P>Wizards remain gimped... Yippee!!</P>

<P>in pve this ability remains useless, 35k isnt that impressive and that is if i cast it at full mana. in my opinion, the damage per mana needs to be upped to about 8 per mana, since it is now capped, it wont make that much of a differance.</P> <P>in pvp, this went from a hard spell to use to a hard spell to use that isnt worth casting, before the changes to the percent cap, this was a spell that required 7 seconds of cast time and could be avoided by either anti-death or reflect. the 40% to 50% is a nice jump, but id really like to see this spell reach 60% before it goes life. being that it is still hard to use against half the classes in the game and very hard to get off verse any melee because they can interupt you and even harder to get off on healers because of their unpredictability, besides, requiring 20 points in power totally owns my other spell lines, make this worth getting in pvp by putting it at 60% cap. thank you.</P>

    At least the casting animation looks cool.<div></div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR>    At least the casting animation looks cool.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yes it is very unique, which is why I dont see this going away any time soon, since the devlopmental time was spent on the animations and graphics.  The implementation of the spell however is very poor in its current state.  It needs a serious damage to power boost.</P> <P>It looks really really cool with effects turned way up when casting and when the spell lands. </P>

Oh F'it.Everytime I see this Feedback with a new date I get worried, and now the terms and conditions on Manaburn are so long we'll all need lawyers before we cast, or accept a EULA, can just see it now, poppin up on screen.If something is taking all my mana, then by god I want it doing more than Fusion, ALL the time as long as my power remaining is less than it costs to cast Fusion, and it better be a huge wallop of damage.I'm going to take this line, much around with manaburn a bit, then I will drop it for a sensible and useful raidline of skills./dissapointedOn another note, big thanks Dejah, appreciate your feedback and input.<p>Message Edited by Sliverhammer on <span class=date_text>11-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:09 PM</span>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dejah wrote:<BR> <DIV>Manaburn was updated today. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/biohazard/1112_Power_Manaburn.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've verified the new behavior except for the immunity timer.  I like these new changes.  I'll get to do something other than just Manaburn for a named in an instance now.  There is just one piece still missing from the puzzle:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make it do more damage power power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The new Damage Per Power rating should be less than the average Damage Per Power rating of a wizard, because we don't want the optimal way to burn all of our mana to be through Manaburn;  Figure out what the average Damage Per Power rating of a wizard is, and then pick a value between 5 Damage Per Power and that value, and I think this spell will be golden.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>At the moment I show NO spell anywhere near  as low as 5 DP/PP in a wizard's offensive arsenal.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>For even average wizards, damage per power is around 12 DP/PP for an Adept III, chain casting wizard in a one minute fight vs <EM>single</EM> target.  (no AOE bonuses).    That's a weighed average of the spells needed to fill the  fight with no gaps, using the midpoint of the spell damage range and it's listed power.   </FONT><FONT color=#ffff33>    Many wizards can exceed 12DP/PP, so it's safe to use as a discussion point.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>With that in mind, it's hard to conceive of a use for burning power at half to a third the efficiency of normal casting.     </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Solo Names in places like the Nest or HOF have approx 80K-150K HP,  so a 40K hit would use all the wizard's power and only serve to make them really mad.      Perhaps a coup de grace at the end might be a use, but then at the end on most high end Names everyone is down to low power and you want the most bang for your power, not the least.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>At the moment I cant think of a reason strong enough to motivate me to use 20 achievement points on it.   Get it to 10 DP/PP and it will have several uses, but even then it's mostly to speed up the end game.   </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Glenolas</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

<P>Ok so you put all the restrictions on it so i cant have any fun with it.</P> <P>How about enough damage to make it useful ?</P> <P>5 to 1 ?</P> <P>Are you high?</P> <P>I do more than that with 1 fusion and 1 ice nova.  </P> <P>That costs me less than a seventh of my power pool.</P> <P>Tell me again why I want this class defining ability as is?</P> <P>Is it a crime to give us something good ?</P> <P>How about a 1 to 10 ?</P> <P>Or at least an instant cast time so i could drop it in the end...as it stands MB is an insult to its name.</P> <P> </P>

Seems like in EoF power will increase too:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=21485You want 10 to 1 on power, with 10k power, giving wizzies a 100k dmg spell. I think thats a tad high. Ok, you usually dont have full power in a raid, but if ye work on it, should be possible, and then you have a 50k nuke as it is now...

<DIV>Do you honestly believe that the avg wizard is going to be anywhere NEAR that at launch? Or even way after launch? With adornments and decent armor, the best I was able to acheive on beta was just below 8k. The max manaburn hit for before being nerfed to hell and back was ~39k.</DIV>

<DIV>Meh...since it has a 7sec cast/5min recast, why not have it be 10k + 5xpower, so that it always does good dmg, but can't get insanely high, as in 10xpower?</DIV>

10k + 7k x 5 = 45k / 7k = 6.4 ratio.

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> 10k + 7k x 5 = 45k / 7k = 6.4 ratio.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileysurprised:</P> <P>He did the math right this time!  :smileytongue:</P>

<P>   the spell was better before and not everyone cared about it before</P> <P>description:<BR>Do they even ready this stuff?<BR>2.Applies manaburn immunity. last for 30.0 secs<BR>4. Manaburn cannot be cast on an enemy that has recently been manaburned<BR>Does this no mean the same thing?</P> <P>Damage:<BR>Nurfing us from the get go. to much damage put a timer on it.. hello? has a wizzy never don 30k hit before with our other spells? I would expect this spell to do more damage than 2 or 3 of our spells. it uses all our mana</P> <P>Hated:<BR>what good does this do? I sometimes one shot stuff now. might help for pvp</P> <P>20 point in power:<BR>That is a lot of points on spells i do not allways use or can use.<BR>puhaps if they wanted us to use more aa points in it then make manaburn have 1-5 ranks or so and each point 1x more damage.<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dejah wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Applies Manaburn Immunity. Lasts 30.0 seconds.  Manaburn cannot be cast on an enemy that has recently been Manaburned.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>This is to prevent wizard death squads from forming.  No 24 wizard raids burning mobs down before they blink.</DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What stoping this from hapining now? we can all ready dish out that much or more damage to a single mob.<BR>And what names have less hp than a 24x manaburn?</P> <P> </P> <P>like i said not everyone cared about it before and it no better now.</P> <P><BR> </P>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KillerMojo wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> 10k + 7k x 5 = 45k / 7k = 6.4 ratio.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileysurprised:</P> <P>He did the math right this time!  :smileytongue:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I actually had my coffee this morning <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> 10k + 7k x 5 = 45k / 7k = 6.4 ratio.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The important thing here is that it would have better ratio when ur power pool is lower...for example...</P> <P>2000 power used = 10k + (5 * 2k) = 20</P> <P>20k / 2k power = 10.0 ratio</P> <P>but max hit would still be < 65k, and would still be capped at 50% of mob's max health, so as to send away complaints about it being "overpowered" in PvP and for farming purposes.</P> <P> </P>

Unless they up the damage in some way the spell makes no sense....why spend AA points on nuke that consumes all your power when you can cast ice nova and fusion and get the same damage.    They have to up the damage or add a benifical secondary effect or the only thing manaburn will be doin is getting a free respec out of ppl AA line up.

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crack Junkie wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> 10k + 7k x 5 = 45k / 7k = 6.4 ratio.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The important thing here is that it would have better ratio when ur power pool is lower...for example...</P> <P>2000 power used = 10k + (5 * 2k) = 20</P> <P>20k / 2k power = 10.0 ratio</P> <P>but max hit would still be < 65k, and would still be capped at 50% of mob's max health, so as to send away complaints about it being "overpowered" in PvP and for farming purposes.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>good point, it would make it more useful.</P> <P>It would kind of defeat the purpose of "mana burn" however if you always do a set amount of damage, whats to stop you from using it when your oop for a "free" 10k  unresistable nuke?  do you think thats appropriate to have an ability like that?</P>

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crack Junkie wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> 10k + 7k x 5 = 45k / 7k = 6.4 ratio.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The important thing here is that it would have better ratio when ur power pool is lower...for example...</P> <P>2000 power used = 10k + (5 * 2k) = 20</P> <P>20k / 2k power = 10.0 ratio</P> <P>but max hit would still be < 65k, and would still be capped at 50% of mob's max health, so as to send away complaints about it being "overpowered" in PvP and for farming purposes.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>good point, it would make it more useful.</P> <P>It would kind of defeat the purpose of "mana burn" however if you always do a set amount of damage, whats to stop you from using it when your oop for a "free" 10k  unresistable nuke?  do you think thats appropriate to have an ability like that?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With a 7 sec cast and 5 min recast?  One that takes tons of AP points spent on weak abilities, in order to unlock?  Absolutely.</DIV>

cannot exceed 50% of targets max health.....whats the point? i can do 50% with fusion on a heroic.good job completely nerfing this to stupiditythis single addition makes it uselessif you dont want to give us manaburn then give us a different aathis restriction will make this a wasted slot on our aa tree<div></div>

for some reason this spell seems even more worthless now than it did in beta. At least when u used all ur mana u got a big hit for it. This thing isnt even worth using soloing.<div></div>

<P>LOL manaburn s now a joke </P> <P>thks soe </P>

<P>Manaburn is very useful, esp during harder named fights.</P> <P>Solo, use your mana efficient spells to get the mob to 49%, shackle, MB, and loot up.</P> <P>In a group, group drops mob to 55% and you cast MB. The 7 seconds gives you enough time to hit your macro key of "MANABURN INC, TANK use RESCUE on me when it hits!!". MB hits, tank rescues, mob dies and you loot up.</P> <P>Only place it lacks is in a raid setting, and the 50% + 30 second immunity buff the mob gets makes an increase against epics very doable. 10:1 or 15:1 <EM>if target is epic </EM>can be added to make this useful for ALL play types.</P> <P>If you want an easy button, the wizard class is not for you.</P><p>Message Edited by govtcheeze on <span class=date_text>11-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:57 AM</span>

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>govtcheeze wrote:<div></div> <div></div><p>If you want an easy button, the wizard class is not for you.</p><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><hr></blockquote>Ice Nova/Fusion = easy buttonManaburn = stupid buttonIf you want a useful Manaburn the wizard class is not for you.</div><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>11-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:32 PM</span>

<div><blockquote><hr>govtcheeze wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Manaburn is very useful, esp during harder named fights.</p> <p>Solo, use your mana efficient spells to get the mob to 49%, shackle, MB, and loot up.</p><p><font color="#cc0000">Are you kidding me?  I don't know about you, but I for one don't see very high dps numbers when I spam my "mana efficient spells", so in this case you are going to limit your dps just to be able to have enough mana to do some damage with manaburn, when you could easily root-nuke much more efficiently with higher damage nukes.  Not to mention, even when using said efficient spells, you are still going to have to consume a lot of power to get the mob to 49% with thos espells, and by that time you won't have enough mana to hit the mob for 50%.  Have you even used this spell before?</font></p> <p>In a group, group drops mob to 55% and you cast MB. The 7 seconds gives you enough time to hit your macro key of "MANABURN INC, TANK use RESCUE on me when it hits!!". MB hits, tank rescues, mob dies and you loot up.</p><p><font color="#cc0000">Yeah...exactly what I want to do in a group settings...blow my wad on mana burn and either spend the next 6 pulls waiting for my power to go up, or make the rest of the group wait there until my power fills up.  Again, this will kill your overall dps in a zone, and/or make the rest of your group hate you for making a zone take 3x as long as it should have because of waiting around for power.  Excellent idea.</font></p> <p>Only place it lacks is in a raid setting, and the 50% + 30 second immunity buff the mob gets makes an increase against epics very doable. 10:1 or 15:1 <em>if target is epic </em>can be added to make this useful for ALL play types.</p><p><font color="#cc0000">THIS I agree with, but only in part.  Take out the "if epic" part and make it actually do 10-15 damage per power and you have yourself a nice, somewhat efficient spell for all situations.  It wont cost as much to do 50% of a mob's HP, thus making continuing DPS very doable, and in a raid setting, you have a situational spell that will actually see some use, especially when a mob is low on HP, since you could actually do more damage with Manaburn than Ice Nova.  </font></p> <p>If you want an easy button, the wizard class is not for you.</p><p><font color="#cc0000">Noone wants an easy button, but this was like dangling a delicious steak in front of our faces, and then replacing it with week old roadkill before giving it to us.  I started off being excited about going down the line to get Manaburn...now theres no way I'm taking it if it stays as is...none of our end abilities are any good at all...Manaburn was the only saving grace and now it has been shot to hell as well...way to go.</font></p><p>Message Edited by govtcheeze on <span class="date_text">11-15-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:57 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></div>

/agree with Razerblaze.