Which line should i go

Griefmast · 04-25-2006, 06:30 AM

I have a lower level pally, just wanted to get a consensous on which line i should go strength, agility, stamina, intelligence or wisdom. Any suggestions would help thanks alot.

Ridea · 04-25-2006, 07:31 AM

I would go strength just because....your a tank. If not that than go stamina

Leawyn · 04-25-2006, 11:40 AM

AA's are as individual as you are. It really depends what kind of pally you are. Do you want to fill in the dps gap? Would you rather be group support? Looking for more survivability or being able to hold agro? Answer those questions to find out what will help round out your character.

Goejun · 04-25-2006, 04:15 PM

IMO:- Agility line is completly useless. Our avoidance is not enough to avoid the strongest opponents. Even the paper tank complain that their avoidance is useless against raid mobs. And anyway the buff given by agility is really marginal because we are plate tanks. You could take Agility line for RP but their isn't much reasons. - Int line is almost completly useless. Just go from defensive mode to attack mode and move ur cursor over ur spell icons to see how much more damages ur spell do with the boost of intelligence. The effect is marginal even with Int 80 higher and because our spell can do around 1000 damages max you can say that it has marginal effect on a marginal DPS... Being able to do a little more damages could help to solo a little faster but for that you would have to sacrifice more important things. Same thing for healing: we are mediocre healers (consume too much power, too slow, interrupted a lot because we are in front line) with our regular healing more that enough in group situations and far behind a pack of healers in raid situation.- Strength: This line is interesting for one thing. The hate gain. We are tank, our primary goal is to take aggro on us and keep it (then its to survive it...). So anything to improve our aggo is very important. Even more now with the AA some other class get that create spike of aggros. Go that line to maximum Hate gain. (4 or others in the line to get 4-4-4- SMILEY

.- Stamina: HP is with mitigation the most important thing to survive an attack. Even a small amount of HP is important because its what take the damages after the mitigation. So if you can have 300 more HP and you have 70% mitigation then it means that you can survive an attack doing 1000 more damages. Its the difference between a live and dead tank. So maximise HP (8-4-4- SMILEY

. Put the last points in strength for power (and so taunts spells), melee crits or anything u wanna improve a little.BTW, the last AA of each line are really a joke. They are too situationnal and too much limited to to be really useful compared to other AA that give you an advantage all the time.

Griefmast · 04-25-2006, 05:33 PM

Thanks for the info that cleared it up

OrcSlayer96 · 04-26-2006, 01:07 AM

Goejun wrote:
IMO:

- Agility line is completly useless. Our avoidance is not enough to avoid the strongest opponents. Even the paper tank complain that their avoidance is useless against raid mobs. And anyway the buff given by agility is really marginal because we are plate tanks. You could take Agility line for RP but their isn't much reasons.
If i had the extra ability points i would try it just to see how much better our multi mob aoe damage can be, it is definetly not just avoidance bonus we get from this line and coupled with the INT path it can really boost paladin DPS.
- Int line is almost completly useless. Just go from defensive mode to attack mode and move ur cursor over ur spell icons to see how much more damages ur spell do with the boost of intelligence. The effect is marginal even with Int 80 higher and because our spell can do around 1000 damages max you can say that it has marginal effect on a marginal DPS... Being able to do a little more damages could help to solo a little faster but for that you would have to sacrifice more important things. Same thing for healing: we are mediocre healers (consume too much power, too slow, interrupted a lot because we are in front line) with our regular healing more that enough in group situations and far behind a pack of healers in raid situation.
Totally disagree with you on this one, 8 points per int on first tier equals a little more than 1 level lost on potency of your spells and procs. 2nd tier gives you a nice long range low power cost damage spell that requires any type of symbol in shield slot. 3rd tier boosts your critical hit spell damage and proc damage by 8.5% per rank, look at how much damage your procs/spells do and say that doesnt help take the mobs down faster. 4th tier improves your heals&ward criticals by 7.8% per rank. We live and die by the strength of our wards and heals, and this AA helps get more healing for the same power cost. Also affects any gear that procs heals too. 5th tier reflect i will not choose just because i like to spread the points around to be more balanced.
- Strength: This line is interesting for one thing. The hate gain. We are tank, our primary goal is to take aggro on us and keep it (then its to survive it...). So anything to improve our aggo is very important. Even more now with the AA some other class get that create spike of aggros. Go that line to maximum Hate gain. (4 or others in the line to get 4-4-4-.
This line is interesting, i wouldnt mind the extra hate and haste, but with 49 points to spend i choose elsewhere. The STR stat is almost always maxed in group for me and with my taunts/amends/shieldbash and AOES upgraded my agro seems fixed even with 2 necromancers and 2 warlocks in the group. I would recommend this path if people like to use axes and/or have agro issues. The end ability is ok, but without haveing a larger power pool to offset the 10% quicker cast times/recast times i burn thru my power to quickly.
- Stamina: HP is with mitigation the most important thing to survive an attack. Even a small amount of HP is important because its what take the damages after the mitigation. So if you can have 300 more HP and you have 70% mitigation then it means that you can survive an attack doing 1000 more damages. Its the difference between a live and dead tank. So maximise HP (8-4-4-.
Love the Stamina line having rank 4 in stamina is 20 staminaX 4.8 health=96 health. 2nd tier is Hammer Ground, a truely awesome aoe stun that at rank 4 stuns all nearby mobs for 2.1 seconds and requires any form of mace/hammer in primary slot. 3rd tier is melee crit hit bonus and at rank 4 is roughly 11% increase in melee crits. 4th tier is health bonus buff that increases your current maximum health by .5% per rank at a maximum of 4%. 5th tier Divine aura is so buggy/broken that it isnt really woth the 8 points spent on it.
Put the last points in strength for power (and so taunts spells), melee crits or anything u wanna improve a little.
You forgot the Wisdom line, one of the best paths if you wish to bring useful skills to any group you plan to play with. Each rank of wisdom gives you 6 wisdom= 10.8 power and 18 to all spell resists. 2nd tier is a extra group damage slashing attack if you have a sword in primary slot. 3rd tier is a bonus to all group members skills which include slashing/crushing/piercing/ministartion and so on in a passive ae setup. 4th tier is a group health regen that is not bad to have to help keep people going, similar to berzerker regen ability.
BTW, the last AA of each line are really a joke. They are too situationnal and too much limited to to be really useful compared to other AA that give you an advantage all the time.
I do agree on this

Kale · 04-26-2006, 01:59 AM

I agree with OrcSlayer mostly. The STR line seems nice on the surface, but when you consider it is probably our easiest stat to raise and cap, then it becomes a lot less enticing. Adept III and Masters for aggro spells and you can do very well without the need to take the STR line. Personally, I'm splitting my points between STA and WIS. OrcSlayer laid out the advantages of each. What I find extra important is that WIS is a difficult stat to cap compared to STR, yet it accounts for a significant portion of our power pool (used to be 1/4, since then it has been raised and I don't know what exact percentage it is anymore) and it improves resists - something we always need. There's some really nice group benefits to the WIS line as well. Anything that makes your group better is fantastic, and the health regen will be beneficial in long raid fights (every little bit helps). Between the STA and WIS lines I think we've got some darn nice abilities to make us good MT in groups. We're still short on raids since other classes get direct mitigation buffs, but these two lines do compliment our abilities nicely. I wish the final ability in the STA line was just a straight Mitigation + HP buff though. Something simple, straightforward and useful for Paladins who want to MT on raids.

Pathin Merrithay · 04-26-2006, 02:16 AM

It does, ultimately, totally depend on your playstyle. I went full Wisdom line simply for raid MT group buffs and will next focus on Int for spell damages/Heal crits.

At full Int line, I'm bringing +34 Slashing/Piercing/Crushing/Ordination/Subjugation/Ministrations, etc etc... A 67/tick in combat health regen. The +1% to group combat damage. heals, wards, recast timers. (I know, I know, small but still) and that's in addition to my standard group buffs. Plus, I can't be feared. I love not being feared. I love it. Alot.

mryankee · 04-26-2006, 12:32 PM

as a paly that mostly solos, i started with the stamina line then went to agility for the haste. we are alway moaning about dps and as of now i have 25 percent haste (21 % after casting and 4% passive). this is not an entirely useless line in my opinion. i am loving the extra dps it gives me. the knockback from stamina isnt nearly as usefull as increased dps. havent tried the int or wis lines yet as i only have 18 points.

OrcSlayer96 · 04-26-2006, 09:16 PM

Pathin Merrithay wrote:

It does, ultimately, totally depend on your playstyle. I went full Wisdom line simply for raid MT group buffs and will next focus on Int for spell damages/Heal crits.

At full Int line, I'm bringing +34 Slashing/Piercing/Crushing/Ordination/Subjugation/Ministrations, etc etc... A 67/tick in combat health regen. The +1% to group combat damage. heals, wards, recast timers. (I know, I know, small but still) and that's in addition to my standard group buffs. Plus, I can't be feared. I love not being feared. I love it. Alot.

Heheh, Elam was telling me about that the other night that you had full health regen ability and fearless morale. I originally thought of going that route, but the int path is just too useful for me. At 27 points spent now i have 4/4/4/4 in stamina and 4/4/2 in intelligence path and see a nice boost in dps already. That smite ability is nice to have with a very low power cost long range nuke at 20 sec recast. The 17% spell critical at rank 2 is starting to make my spells critical alot more, cant wait to see when it hits 34%. Getting my healing criticals to 31.2% will be nice also. I will then go after the wisdom line and toss in 4/4/4/4 in there too. Out of curiosity, what is the numbers in rank 4 of your skill leadership wisdom aa and your health regen AA, was curious if it jumped a bit from app 4 to adept 1 then onto master 1.

Pathin Merrithay · 04-26-2006, 10:02 PM

OrcSlayer96 wrote:

Pathin Merrithay wrote:

It does, ultimately, totally depend on your playstyle. I went full Wisdom line simply for raid MT group buffs and will next focus on Int for spell damages/Heal crits.

At full Int line, I'm bringing +34 Slashing/Piercing/Crushing/Ordination/Subjugation/Ministrations, etc etc... A 67/tick in combat health regen. The +1% to group combat damage. heals, wards, recast timers. (I know, I know, small but still) and that's in addition to my standard group buffs. Plus, I can't be feared. I love not being feared. I love it. Alot.

Heheh, Elam was telling me about that the other night that you had full health regen ability and fearless morale. I originally thought of going that route, but the int path is just too useful for me. At 27 points spent now i have 4/4/4/4 in stamina and 4/4/2 in intelligence path and see a nice boost in dps already. That smite ability is nice to have with a very low power cost long range nuke at 20 sec recast. The 17% spell critical at rank 2 is starting to make my spells critical alot more, cant wait to see when it hits 34%. Getting my healing criticals to 31.2% will be nice also. I will then go after the wisdom line and toss in 4/4/4/4 in there too. Out of curiosity, what is the numbers in rank 4 of your skill leadership wisdom aa and your health regen AA, was curious if it jumped a bit from app 4 to adept 1 then onto master 1.

*laughs* I was watching you play over her shoulder the other day for a while. I very much appreciate the DPS increase... The spell critical are where all the rest of my points will be going.

But, to answer your question, at rank 4, Battle Leadership gave +16 to stats and the Health Regen was 32/tick. There was a -slight- jump between the ranks, but it was relatively minor as you can see.

OrcSlayer96 · 04-27-2006, 02:28 AM

Pathin Merrithay wrote:

OrcSlayer96 wrote:

Pathin Merrithay wrote:

It does, ultimately, totally depend on your playstyle. I went full Wisdom line simply for raid MT group buffs and will next focus on Int for spell damages/Heal crits.

At full Int line, I'm bringing +34 Slashing/Piercing/Crushing/Ordination/Subjugation/Ministrations, etc etc... A 67/tick in combat health regen. The +1% to group combat damage. heals, wards, recast timers. (I know, I know, small but still) and that's in addition to my standard group buffs. Plus, I can't be feared. I love not being feared. I love it. Alot.

Heheh, Elam was telling me about that the other night that you had full health regen ability and fearless morale. I originally thought of going that route, but the int path is just too useful for me. At 27 points spent now i have 4/4/4/4 in stamina and 4/4/2 in intelligence path and see a nice boost in dps already. That smite ability is nice to have with a very low power cost long range nuke at 20 sec recast. The 17% spell critical at rank 2 is starting to make my spells critical alot more, cant wait to see when it hits 34%. Getting my healing criticals to 31.2% will be nice also. I will then go after the wisdom line and toss in 4/4/4/4 in there too. Out of curiosity, what is the numbers in rank 4 of your skill leadership wisdom aa and your health regen AA, was curious if it jumped a bit from app 4 to adept 1 then onto master 1.

*laughs* I was watching you play over her shoulder the other day for a while. I very much appreciate the DPS increase... The spell critical are where all the rest of my points will be going.

But, to answer your question, at rank 4, Battle Leadership gave +16 to stats and the Health Regen was 32/tick. There was a -slight- jump between the ranks, but it was relatively minor as you can see.

Cool, those are nice numbers for having 4 ranks apiece in them later on. I think my biggest problem will be where to put that final point at when i hit 50AA points down the line. Sometimes having too many good choices is a bad thing... SMILEY

BTW was that when I was paired up with my fellow pallie Tacowarior as we were playing the 2 paladins equal a healer role with Elam and Tok? Hopefully it wasnt the time when i used toadstool thinking to make a 50% bigger dwarf and shrunk down to 35% my size instead for the next 10 minutes. Bad times when a ratonga can look down to you and call you shorty... SMILEY

EvilIguana9 · 04-27-2006, 03:25 AM

BTW, the last AA of each line are really a joke. They are too situationnal and too much limited to to be really useful compared to other AA that give you an advantage all the time.

I disagree, at least with regards to the str line. I think my 10% haste on spell/ability cast/recast/recovery time is very useful. Obviously faster casting means lower probability of interupt, but it also means you lose slightly less dps from being in the middle of casting when the auto attack timer would have cycled. And of course you can burn your power harder when necessary, like say when trying to solo a difficult heroic encounter, or trying to rescue your group from a bad pull.

OrcSlayer96 · 04-28-2006, 09:58 PM

Just from reading numerous posts on our forum and comparing to a few other forums, it reaffirms my belief that this is a very complex class with many,many diferent paths to play. We have 3 level 70 Paladins in my guild, and each one has had different choices in what AA choices they have made and the amount of points to apply. This to me means that our AA paths are working as intended: giving as a whole choices that different playstyles value more than others. I still see improvements in our AA lines but as a whole i think we are better off than many other classes. This weekend i will be diving thru the healing critical AA ranks then moving onto the wisdom path to reap those benefits. Good luck to everyone's choices so far... SMILEY

Lairdragna · 04-29-2006, 10:46 PM

I will run the Wisdom line dow to the end for the Fear resist. The rest of my points are being spread across the first stages of intelligence, agility and stamina. Strength is easy to cap, the rest of the stats are usually lower that strength and wisdom from trying to maximize those. The extra avoidance, health and spell damage will be welcome.

Ultim · 05-01-2006, 01:56 AM

Personally i went...

Str 4 / 4 / 4 / 8 <<<<--------(10% hate gain ftw)

Sta 5 <<<<-------------------(Additional hp is nice)

Wis 4 / 4 / 4 / 4 / 8 <<<<--(Immunity to fear.... NICE)

But thats based on my usefulness in a raid and what i liked in the aa lines

Ultim · 05-01-2006, 02:00 AM

Kalera wrote:

I agree with OrcSlayer mostly. The STR line seems nice on the surface, but when you consider it is probably our easiest stat to raise and cap, then it becomes a lot less enticing. Adept III and Masters for aggro spells and you can do very well without the need to take the STR line.

Personally, I'm splitting my points between STA and WIS. OrcSlayer laid out the advantages of each. What I find extra important is that WIS is a difficult stat to cap compared to STR, yet it accounts for a significant portion of our power pool (used to be 1/4, since then it has been raised and I don't know what exact percentage it is anymore) and it improves resists - something we always need. There's some really nice group benefits to the WIS line as well. Anything that makes your group better is fantastic, and the health regen will be beneficial in long raid fights (every little bit helps).

Between the STA and WIS lines I think we've got some darn nice abilities to make us good MT in groups. We're still short on raids since other classes get direct mitigation buffs, but these two lines do compliment our abilities nicely.

I wish the final ability in the STA line was just a straight Mitigation + HP buff though. Something simple, straightforward and useful for Paladins who want to MT on raids.

my taunts are all master 1 - Master 2, but really you notice a MASSIVE difference with the increase of 10% hate gain (i maxed it out) such that you arent spending an entire fight mashing taunts when in a massive dps grp, you just taunt maybe twice in the whole fight and your golden, this is great for raids too coz u can hold ALL the aggro with less taunts and have time to hit a ward or few/cast spells

I did get my fear immunity tho

Verlaine · 05-01-2006, 07:07 PM

Do people really think that the Agi is so bad. Each point ups you agi 7 points so thats 28pts of agi if you put 4 points into it. It has a nice aoe attack on auto atk which can help hold agro on groups and then the defence bonous as well. I know all these skills work without a horse as well they are just not quite as potent.

Uther2000 · 05-01-2006, 07:13 PM

Goejun wrote:IMO:BTW, the last AA of each line are really a joke. They are too situationnal and too much limited to to be really useful compared to other AA that give you an advantage all the time.

Aren't there potions that can duplicate the last AA of some lines ?

dubbs · 05-03-2006, 06:28 AM

Indeed, it is all a matter of personal preference. There are so many roles that a paladin can fill and it's up to you what direction you want to take it.

Personally I feel that I can tank any group situation perfectly well, and I have no desire to raid MT. I also feel that my as my heals are all Adept 3 or Master, that those are good enough as well. That being said, I wanted to max out my dps for both raids, grouping and soloing.

While I still don't have as much dps as an SK, I feel that I can still dish out quite a bit of damage with the AA setup of: STR 4/4/8, STA 4/4/8, and INT 5/4/8. With this, I have the permanent Haste from STR (and the temporary haste if i use and axe), Melee Crits maxed from STA (as well as a nice AE stun with my hammer) and Spell Crits maxed from INT.

Aamad · 05-03-2006, 11:53 PM

I chose sta 4/4/4/4/8 for extra hps, slight increase in melee crits and divine aura. And 4/4/8/8 on the Int for spell crits and heals. At 49 aa's now. The crits add quite a bit to overall dmg and is good for aggro, moreso imo than spending points in str. Although the hate gain is nice. Highest hit at 70 with refusal of conviction master in raid was like..3500 hehe. Not to mention all the crits you get off ae's and damage shields and procs. And heal crits are just nice solo or group. 5300 lay hands is awesome. I tried wisdom but really didn't feel it made much of a difference(regen and skill increases whoopity do lol) and fear immunity /shrug. Just wasn't as fun as those big numbers and absorbing attacks hehe. When I don't raid I do tend to solo or duo a lot and its a good combo for me.

Message Edited by Aamadex on 05-03-2006 02:54 PM

Message Edited by Aamadex on 05-03-2006 03:04 PM

Griefmast · 05-14-2006, 05:43 PM

OK now i'm up to level 23 and i solo 50 percent of the time. I want to improve my dps and i'm not really interested in being a mt, so i guess the str line is out right? One other thing, i know this is a noob question, i think at 20 or 21 it said i got a point to start going down whichever path i want. How do i apply this?( i bring up the abilites and i cant make heads or tails of it) And if this matters i enjoy using a sword/axe rather than a spear or a hammer. Thanks again

Fraenhawk · 05-14-2006, 11:37 PM

At level 20, the very first thing you did that earns AA exp (discovery, blue quest, etc) should have given you a full point. However, you can't apply it to any of the paths yet. If you look at the AA at the top of the Achievment window, that one is required. All classes have one AA that you have to get, that's why people talk about 49 points instead of 50. In our case it's the passive +focus when <50% health. Just click on it and I think it will popup and ask you if you're sure you want to spend it on that. It's not until your second AA point that you get to pick a line.

Kale · 05-15-2006, 10:55 PM

Ultimac wrote:

Kalera wrote:I agree with OrcSlayer mostly. The STR line seems nice on the surface, but when you consider it is probably our easiest stat to raise and cap, then it becomes a lot less enticing. Adept III and Masters for aggro spells and you can do very well without the need to take the STR line. Personally, I'm splitting my points between STA and WIS. OrcSlayer laid out the advantages of each. What I find extra important is that WIS is a difficult stat to cap compared to STR, yet it accounts for a significant portion of our power pool (used to be 1/4, since then it has been raised and I don't know what exact percentage it is anymore) and it improves resists - something we always need. There's some really nice group benefits to the WIS line as well. Anything that makes your group better is fantastic, and the health regen will be beneficial in long raid fights (every little bit helps). Between the STA and WIS lines I think we've got some darn nice abilities to make us good MT in groups. We're still short on raids since other classes get direct mitigation buffs, but these two lines do compliment our abilities nicely. I wish the final ability in the STA line was just a straight Mitigation + HP buff though. Something simple, straightforward and useful for Paladins who want to MT on raids.

my taunts are all master 1 - Master 2, but really you notice a MASSIVE difference with the increase of 10% hate gain (i maxed it out) such that you arent spending an entire fight mashing taunts when in a massive dps grp, you just taunt maybe twice in the whole fight and your golden, this is great for raids too coz u can hold ALL the aggro with less taunts and have time to hit a ward or few/cast spells

I did get my fear immunity tho

Yeah, the more I looked at it the more I've decided STA/STR is where I'm going. The Fear immunity can be got with equipment, so there's no point in going all WIS. The hate gain in STR seems to me like a really good idea. I mean, the more the better, right?

OrcSlayer96 · 05-15-2006, 11:35 PM

I am curious, does the haste on the strength AA section stack on the haste from the glorious gauntlets of speed or whatever it is called or the katana that grants speed? I would value that if it stacks as just as useful as the hate gain... Just curious.. SMILEY

Nurta · 05-17-2006, 06:11 PM

OrcSlayer96 wrote:

I am curious, does the haste on the strength AA section stack on the haste from the glorious gauntlets of speed or whatever it is called or the katana that grants speed? I would value that if it stacks as just as useful as the hate gain... Just curious..

I thought it did. I know that when I still had FBSS in my bags I tested to see if it would stack with the AA and it does. It also stacks with other haste buffs from other classes. I had 90% haste one night, it was fun SMILEY

Pathin Merrithay · 05-17-2006, 09:50 PM

Two things:

The fear immunity from the various items is either so rare it's practically impossible to get or laughable to use. The AA line is a much better option.

And yes, the haste from AA lines does stack with items. SMILEY

04-25-2006, 07:31 AM	#2
Ridea Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 33	I would go strength just because....your a tank. If not that than go stamina __________________

04-25-2006, 11:40 AM	#3
Leawyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,014	AA's are as individual as you are. It really depends what kind of pally you are. Do you want to fill in the dps gap? Would you rather be group support? Looking for more survivability or being able to hold agro? Answer those questions to find out what will help round out your character. __________________ Maelani \| Maelya \| Maerie \| Maehymn \| Maewyn \| Maekita \| Maelynne

04-25-2006, 04:15 PM	#4
Goejun Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 87	IMO:- Agility line is completly useless. Our avoidance is not enough to avoid the strongest opponents. Even the paper tank complain that their avoidance is useless against raid mobs. And anyway the buff given by agility is really marginal because we are plate tanks. You could take Agility line for RP but their isn't much reasons. - Int line is almost completly useless. Just go from defensive mode to attack mode and move ur cursor over ur spell icons to see how much more damages ur spell do with the boost of intelligence. The effect is marginal even with Int 80 higher and because our spell can do around 1000 damages max you can say that it has marginal effect on a marginal DPS... Being able to do a little more damages could help to solo a little faster but for that you would have to sacrifice more important things. Same thing for healing: we are mediocre healers (consume too much power, too slow, interrupted a lot because we are in front line) with our regular healing more that enough in group situations and far behind a pack of healers in raid situation.- Strength: This line is interesting for one thing. The hate gain. We are tank, our primary goal is to take aggro on us and keep it (then its to survive it...). So anything to improve our aggo is very important. Even more now with the AA some other class get that create spike of aggros. Go that line to maximum Hate gain. (4 or others in the line to get 4-4-4-.- Stamina: HP is with mitigation the most important thing to survive an attack. Even a small amount of HP is important because its what take the damages after the mitigation. So if you can have 300 more HP and you have 70% mitigation then it means that you can survive an attack doing 1000 more damages. Its the difference between a live and dead tank. So maximise HP (8-4-4-. Put the last points in strength for power (and so taunts spells), melee crits or anything u wanna improve a little.BTW, the last AA of each line are really a joke. They are too situationnal and too much limited to to be really useful compared to other AA that give you an advantage all the time. __________________ ================================================ ============= WOW is MMO for Dummies ============== ================================================ Hebon: Paladin 70 (59 AA) - Carpenter 60 Zeranok: Necromancer 57 - Wait and see

04-26-2006, 01:07 AM	#6
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	Goejun wrote: IMO: - Agility line is completly useless. Our avoidance is not enough to avoid the strongest opponents. Even the paper tank complain that their avoidance is useless against raid mobs. And anyway the buff given by agility is really marginal because we are plate tanks. You could take Agility line for RP but their isn't much reasons. If i had the extra ability points i would try it just to see how much better our multi mob aoe damage can be, it is definetly not just avoidance bonus we get from this line and coupled with the INT path it can really boost paladin DPS. - Int line is almost completly useless. Just go from defensive mode to attack mode and move ur cursor over ur spell icons to see how much more damages ur spell do with the boost of intelligence. The effect is marginal even with Int 80 higher and because our spell can do around 1000 damages max you can say that it has marginal effect on a marginal DPS... Being able to do a little more damages could help to solo a little faster but for that you would have to sacrifice more important things. Same thing for healing: we are mediocre healers (consume too much power, too slow, interrupted a lot because we are in front line) with our regular healing more that enough in group situations and far behind a pack of healers in raid situation. Totally disagree with you on this one, 8 points per int on first tier equals a little more than 1 level lost on potency of your spells and procs. 2nd tier gives you a nice long range low power cost damage spell that requires any type of symbol in shield slot. 3rd tier boosts your critical hit spell damage and proc damage by 8.5% per rank, look at how much damage your procs/spells do and say that doesnt help take the mobs down faster. 4th tier improves your heals&ward criticals by 7.8% per rank. We live and die by the strength of our wards and heals, and this AA helps get more healing for the same power cost. Also affects any gear that procs heals too. 5th tier reflect i will not choose just because i like to spread the points around to be more balanced. - Strength: This line is interesting for one thing. The hate gain. We are tank, our primary goal is to take aggro on us and keep it (then its to survive it...). So anything to improve our aggo is very important. Even more now with the AA some other class get that create spike of aggros. Go that line to maximum Hate gain. (4 or others in the line to get 4-4-4-. This line is interesting, i wouldnt mind the extra hate and haste, but with 49 points to spend i choose elsewhere. The STR stat is almost always maxed in group for me and with my taunts/amends/shieldbash and AOES upgraded my agro seems fixed even with 2 necromancers and 2 warlocks in the group. I would recommend this path if people like to use axes and/or have agro issues. The end ability is ok, but without haveing a larger power pool to offset the 10% quicker cast times/recast times i burn thru my power to quickly. - Stamina: HP is with mitigation the most important thing to survive an attack. Even a small amount of HP is important because its what take the damages after the mitigation. So if you can have 300 more HP and you have 70% mitigation then it means that you can survive an attack doing 1000 more damages. Its the difference between a live and dead tank. So maximise HP (8-4-4-. Love the Stamina line having rank 4 in stamina is 20 staminaX 4.8 health=96 health. 2nd tier is Hammer Ground, a truely awesome aoe stun that at rank 4 stuns all nearby mobs for 2.1 seconds and requires any form of mace/hammer in primary slot. 3rd tier is melee crit hit bonus and at rank 4 is roughly 11% increase in melee crits. 4th tier is health bonus buff that increases your current maximum health by .5% per rank at a maximum of 4%. 5th tier Divine aura is so buggy/broken that it isnt really woth the 8 points spent on it. Put the last points in strength for power (and so taunts spells), melee crits or anything u wanna improve a little. You forgot the Wisdom line, one of the best paths if you wish to bring useful skills to any group you plan to play with. Each rank of wisdom gives you 6 wisdom= 10.8 power and 18 to all spell resists. 2nd tier is a extra group damage slashing attack if you have a sword in primary slot. 3rd tier is a bonus to all group members skills which include slashing/crushing/piercing/ministartion and so on in a passive ae setup. 4th tier is a group health regen that is not bad to have to help keep people going, similar to berzerker regen ability. BTW, the last AA of each line are really a joke. They are too situationnal and too much limited to to be really useful compared to other AA that give you an advantage all the time. I do agree on this

04-26-2006, 12:32 PM	#9
mryankee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 68	as a paly that mostly solos, i started with the stamina line then went to agility for the haste. we are alway moaning about dps and as of now i have 25 percent haste (21 % after casting and 4% passive). this is not an entirely useless line in my opinion. i am loving the extra dps it gives me. the knockback from stamina isnt nearly as usefull as increased dps. havent tried the int or wis lines yet as i only have 18 points. __________________

04-25-2006, 06:30 AM	#1
Griefmast Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York Posts: 14	I have a lower level pally, just wanted to get a consensous on which line i should go strength, agility, stamina, intelligence or wisdom. Any suggestions would help thanks alot.

04-25-2006, 05:33 PM	#5
Griefmast Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York Posts: 14	Thanks for the info that cleared it up

04-26-2006, 01:59 AM	#7
Kale Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 222	I agree with OrcSlayer mostly. The STR line seems nice on the surface, but when you consider it is probably our easiest stat to raise and cap, then it becomes a lot less enticing. Adept III and Masters for aggro spells and you can do very well without the need to take the STR line. Personally, I'm splitting my points between STA and WIS. OrcSlayer laid out the advantages of each. What I find extra important is that WIS is a difficult stat to cap compared to STR, yet it accounts for a significant portion of our power pool (used to be 1/4, since then it has been raised and I don't know what exact percentage it is anymore) and it improves resists - something we always need. There's some really nice group benefits to the WIS line as well. Anything that makes your group better is fantastic, and the health regen will be beneficial in long raid fights (every little bit helps). Between the STA and WIS lines I think we've got some darn nice abilities to make us good MT in groups. We're still short on raids since other classes get direct mitigation buffs, but these two lines do compliment our abilities nicely. I wish the final ability in the STA line was just a straight Mitigation + HP buff though. Something simple, straightforward and useful for Paladins who want to MT on raids.

04-26-2006, 02:16 AM	#8
Pathin Merrithay Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 473	It does, ultimately, totally depend on your playstyle. I went full Wisdom line simply for raid MT group buffs and will next focus on Int for spell damages/Heal crits. At full Int line, I'm bringing +34 Slashing/Piercing/Crushing/Ordination/Subjugation/Ministrations, etc etc... A 67/tick in combat health regen. The +1% to group combat damage. heals, wards, recast timers. (I know, I know, small but still) and that's in addition to my standard group buffs. Plus, I can't be feared. I love not being feared. I love it. Alot.

04-26-2006, 09:16 PM	#10
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	Pathin Merrithay wrote: It does, ultimately, totally depend on your playstyle. I went full Wisdom line simply for raid MT group buffs and will next focus on Int for spell damages/Heal crits. At full Int line, I'm bringing +34 Slashing/Piercing/Crushing/Ordination/Subjugation/Ministrations, etc etc... A 67/tick in combat health regen. The +1% to group combat damage. heals, wards, recast timers. (I know, I know, small but still) and that's in addition to my standard group buffs. Plus, I can't be feared. I love not being feared. I love it. Alot. Heheh, Elam was telling me about that the other night that you had full health regen ability and fearless morale. I originally thought of going that route, but the int path is just too useful for me. At 27 points spent now i have 4/4/4/4 in stamina and 4/4/2 in intelligence path and see a nice boost in dps already. That smite ability is nice to have with a very low power cost long range nuke at 20 sec recast. The 17% spell critical at rank 2 is starting to make my spells critical alot more, cant wait to see when it hits 34%. Getting my healing criticals to 31.2% will be nice also. I will then go after the wisdom line and toss in 4/4/4/4 in there too. Out of curiosity, what is the numbers in rank 4 of your skill leadership wisdom aa and your health regen AA, was curious if it jumped a bit from app 4 to adept 1 then onto master 1.

04-26-2006, 10:02 PM	#11
Pathin Merrithay Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 473	OrcSlayer96 wrote: Pathin Merrithay wrote: It does, ultimately, totally depend on your playstyle. I went full Wisdom line simply for raid MT group buffs and will next focus on Int for spell damages/Heal crits. At full Int line, I'm bringing +34 Slashing/Piercing/Crushing/Ordination/Subjugation/Ministrations, etc etc... A 67/tick in combat health regen. The +1% to group combat damage. heals, wards, recast timers. (I know, I know, small but still) and that's in addition to my standard group buffs. Plus, I can't be feared. I love not being feared. I love it. Alot. Heheh, Elam was telling me about that the other night that you had full health regen ability and fearless morale. I originally thought of going that route, but the int path is just too useful for me. At 27 points spent now i have 4/4/4/4 in stamina and 4/4/2 in intelligence path and see a nice boost in dps already. That smite ability is nice to have with a very low power cost long range nuke at 20 sec recast. The 17% spell critical at rank 2 is starting to make my spells critical alot more, cant wait to see when it hits 34%. Getting my healing criticals to 31.2% will be nice also. I will then go after the wisdom line and toss in 4/4/4/4 in there too. Out of curiosity, what is the numbers in rank 4 of your skill leadership wisdom aa and your health regen AA, was curious if it jumped a bit from app 4 to adept 1 then onto master 1. laughs I was watching you play over her shoulder the other day for a while. I very much appreciate the DPS increase... The spell critical are where all the rest of my points will be going. But, to answer your question, at rank 4, Battle Leadership gave +16 to stats and the Health Regen was 32/tick. There was a -slight- jump between the ranks, but it was relatively minor as you can see.

04-27-2006, 02:28 AM	#12
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	Pathin Merrithay wrote: OrcSlayer96 wrote: Pathin Merrithay wrote: It does, ultimately, totally depend on your playstyle. I went full Wisdom line simply for raid MT group buffs and will next focus on Int for spell damages/Heal crits. At full Int line, I'm bringing +34 Slashing/Piercing/Crushing/Ordination/Subjugation/Ministrations, etc etc... A 67/tick in combat health regen. The +1% to group combat damage. heals, wards, recast timers. (I know, I know, small but still) and that's in addition to my standard group buffs. Plus, I can't be feared. I love not being feared. I love it. Alot. Heheh, Elam was telling me about that the other night that you had full health regen ability and fearless morale. I originally thought of going that route, but the int path is just too useful for me. At 27 points spent now i have 4/4/4/4 in stamina and 4/4/2 in intelligence path and see a nice boost in dps already. That smite ability is nice to have with a very low power cost long range nuke at 20 sec recast. The 17% spell critical at rank 2 is starting to make my spells critical alot more, cant wait to see when it hits 34%. Getting my healing criticals to 31.2% will be nice also. I will then go after the wisdom line and toss in 4/4/4/4 in there too. Out of curiosity, what is the numbers in rank 4 of your skill leadership wisdom aa and your health regen AA, was curious if it jumped a bit from app 4 to adept 1 then onto master 1. laughs I was watching you play over her shoulder the other day for a while. I very much appreciate the DPS increase... The spell critical are where all the rest of my points will be going. But, to answer your question, at rank 4, Battle Leadership gave +16 to stats and the Health Regen was 32/tick. There was a -slight- jump between the ranks, but it was relatively minor as you can see. Cool, those are nice numbers for having 4 ranks apiece in them later on. I think my biggest problem will be where to put that final point at when i hit 50AA points down the line. Sometimes having too many good choices is a bad thing... BTW was that when I was paired up with my fellow pallie Tacowarior as we were playing the 2 paladins equal a healer role with Elam and Tok? Hopefully it wasnt the time when i used toadstool thinking to make a 50% bigger dwarf and shrunk down to 35% my size instead for the next 10 minutes. Bad times when a ratonga can look down to you and call you shorty...

04-27-2006, 03:25 AM	#13
EvilIguana9 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 477	BTW, the last AA of each line are really a joke. They are too situationnal and too much limited to to be really useful compared to other AA that give you an advantage all the time. I disagree, at least with regards to the str line. I think my 10% haste on spell/ability cast/recast/recovery time is very useful. Obviously faster casting means lower probability of interupt, but it also means you lose slightly less dps from being in the middle of casting when the auto attack timer would have cycled. And of course you can burn your power harder when necessary, like say when trying to solo a difficult heroic encounter, or trying to rescue your group from a bad pull.

04-28-2006, 09:58 PM	#14
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	Just from reading numerous posts on our forum and comparing to a few other forums, it reaffirms my belief that this is a very complex class with many,many diferent paths to play. We have 3 level 70 Paladins in my guild, and each one has had different choices in what AA choices they have made and the amount of points to apply. This to me means that our AA paths are working as intended: giving as a whole choices that different playstyles value more than others. I still see improvements in our AA lines but as a whole i think we are better off than many other classes. This weekend i will be diving thru the healing critical AA ranks then moving onto the wisdom path to reap those benefits. Good luck to everyone's choices so far...

04-29-2006, 10:46 PM	#15
Lairdragna Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 543	I will run the Wisdom line dow to the end for the Fear resist. The rest of my points are being spread across the first stages of intelligence, agility and stamina. Strength is easy to cap, the rest of the stats are usually lower that strength and wisdom from trying to maximize those. The extra avoidance, health and spell damage will be welcome.

05-01-2006, 01:56 AM	#16
Ultim Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Personally i went... Str 4 / 4 / 4 / 8 <<<<--------(10% hate gain ftw) Sta 5 <<<<-------------------(Additional hp is nice) Wis 4 / 4 / 4 / 4 / 8 <<<<--(Immunity to fear.... NICE) But thats based on my usefulness in a raid and what i liked in the aa lines __________________

05-01-2006, 02:00 AM	#17
Ultim Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Kalera wrote: I agree with OrcSlayer mostly. The STR line seems nice on the surface, but when you consider it is probably our easiest stat to raise and cap, then it becomes a lot less enticing. Adept III and Masters for aggro spells and you can do very well without the need to take the STR line. Personally, I'm splitting my points between STA and WIS. OrcSlayer laid out the advantages of each. What I find extra important is that WIS is a difficult stat to cap compared to STR, yet it accounts for a significant portion of our power pool (used to be 1/4, since then it has been raised and I don't know what exact percentage it is anymore) and it improves resists - something we always need. There's some really nice group benefits to the WIS line as well. Anything that makes your group better is fantastic, and the health regen will be beneficial in long raid fights (every little bit helps). Between the STA and WIS lines I think we've got some darn nice abilities to make us good MT in groups. We're still short on raids since other classes get direct mitigation buffs, but these two lines do compliment our abilities nicely. I wish the final ability in the STA line was just a straight Mitigation + HP buff though. Something simple, straightforward and useful for Paladins who want to MT on raids. my taunts are all master 1 - Master 2, but really you notice a MASSIVE difference with the increase of 10% hate gain (i maxed it out) such that you arent spending an entire fight mashing taunts when in a massive dps grp, you just taunt maybe twice in the whole fight and your golden, this is great for raids too coz u can hold ALL the aggro with less taunts and have time to hit a ward or few/cast spells I did get my fear immunity tho __________________

05-01-2006, 07:07 PM	#18
Verlaine Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MN, USA Posts: 113	Do people really think that the Agi is so bad. Each point ups you agi 7 points so thats 28pts of agi if you put 4 points into it. It has a nice aoe attack on auto atk which can help hold agro on groups and then the defence bonous as well. I know all these skills work without a horse as well they are just not quite as potent.

05-01-2006, 07:13 PM	#19
Uther2000 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 79	Goejun wrote:IMO:BTW, the last AA of each line are really a joke. They are too situationnal and too much limited to to be really useful compared to other AA that give you an advantage all the time. Aren't there potions that can duplicate the last AA of some lines ? __________________ ~ Strength and Honor Drugaal, 70 Paladin/70 Provisioner/Tinker -- Unrest ~ Deviance

05-03-2006, 06:28 AM	#20
dubbs Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 160	Indeed, it is all a matter of personal preference. There are so many roles that a paladin can fill and it's up to you what direction you want to take it. Personally I feel that I can tank any group situation perfectly well, and I have no desire to raid MT. I also feel that my as my heals are all Adept 3 or Master, that those are good enough as well. That being said, I wanted to max out my dps for both raids, grouping and soloing. While I still don't have as much dps as an SK, I feel that I can still dish out quite a bit of damage with the AA setup of: STR 4/4/8, STA 4/4/8, and INT 5/4/8. With this, I have the permanent Haste from STR (and the temporary haste if i use and axe), Melee Crits maxed from STA (as well as a nice AE stun with my hammer) and Spell Crits maxed from INT. __________________

05-03-2006, 11:53 PM	#21
Aamad Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 59	I chose sta 4/4/4/4/8 for extra hps, slight increase in melee crits and divine aura. And 4/4/8/8 on the Int for spell crits and heals. At 49 aa's now. The crits add quite a bit to overall dmg and is good for aggro, moreso imo than spending points in str. Although the hate gain is nice. Highest hit at 70 with refusal of conviction master in raid was like..3500 hehe. Not to mention all the crits you get off ae's and damage shields and procs. And heal crits are just nice solo or group. 5300 lay hands is awesome. I tried wisdom but really didn't feel it made much of a difference(regen and skill increases whoopity do lol) and fear immunity /shrug. Just wasn't as fun as those big numbers and absorbing attacks hehe. When I don't raid I do tend to solo or duo a lot and its a good combo for me. Message Edited by Aamadex on 05-03-2006 02:54 PM Message Edited by Aamadex on 05-03-2006 03:04 PM

05-14-2006, 05:43 PM	#22
Griefmast Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York Posts: 14	OK now i'm up to level 23 and i solo 50 percent of the time. I want to improve my dps and i'm not really interested in being a mt, so i guess the str line is out right? One other thing, i know this is a noob question, i think at 20 or 21 it said i got a point to start going down whichever path i want. How do i apply this?( i bring up the abilites and i cant make heads or tails of it) And if this matters i enjoy using a sword/axe rather than a spear or a hammer. Thanks again

05-14-2006, 11:37 PM	#23
Fraenhawk Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 24	At level 20, the very first thing you did that earns AA exp (discovery, blue quest, etc) should have given you a full point. However, you can't apply it to any of the paths yet. If you look at the AA at the top of the Achievment window, that one is required. All classes have one AA that you have to get, that's why people talk about 49 points instead of 50. In our case it's the passive +focus when <50% health. Just click on it and I think it will popup and ask you if you're sure you want to spend it on that. It's not until your second AA point that you get to pick a line.

05-15-2006, 10:55 PM	#24
Kale Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 222	Ultimac wrote: Kalera wrote:I agree with OrcSlayer mostly. The STR line seems nice on the surface, but when you consider it is probably our easiest stat to raise and cap, then it becomes a lot less enticing. Adept III and Masters for aggro spells and you can do very well without the need to take the STR line. Personally, I'm splitting my points between STA and WIS. OrcSlayer laid out the advantages of each. What I find extra important is that WIS is a difficult stat to cap compared to STR, yet it accounts for a significant portion of our power pool (used to be 1/4, since then it has been raised and I don't know what exact percentage it is anymore) and it improves resists - something we always need. There's some really nice group benefits to the WIS line as well. Anything that makes your group better is fantastic, and the health regen will be beneficial in long raid fights (every little bit helps). Between the STA and WIS lines I think we've got some darn nice abilities to make us good MT in groups. We're still short on raids since other classes get direct mitigation buffs, but these two lines do compliment our abilities nicely. I wish the final ability in the STA line was just a straight Mitigation + HP buff though. Something simple, straightforward and useful for Paladins who want to MT on raids. my taunts are all master 1 - Master 2, but really you notice a MASSIVE difference with the increase of 10% hate gain (i maxed it out) such that you arent spending an entire fight mashing taunts when in a massive dps grp, you just taunt maybe twice in the whole fight and your golden, this is great for raids too coz u can hold ALL the aggro with less taunts and have time to hit a ward or few/cast spells I did get my fear immunity tho Yeah, the more I looked at it the more I've decided STA/STR is where I'm going. The Fear immunity can be got with equipment, so there's no point in going all WIS. The hate gain in STR seems to me like a really good idea. I mean, the more the better, right?

05-15-2006, 11:35 PM	#25
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	I am curious, does the haste on the strength AA section stack on the haste from the glorious gauntlets of speed or whatever it is called or the katana that grants speed? I would value that if it stacks as just as useful as the hate gain... Just curious..

05-17-2006, 06:11 PM	#26
Nurta Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Living in York, PA Posts: 185	OrcSlayer96 wrote: I am curious, does the haste on the strength AA section stack on the haste from the glorious gauntlets of speed or whatever it is called or the katana that grants speed? I would value that if it stacks as just as useful as the hate gain... Just curious.. I thought it did. I know that when I still had FBSS in my bags I tested to see if it would stack with the AA and it does. It also stacks with other haste buffs from other classes. I had 90% haste one night, it was fun

05-17-2006, 09:50 PM	#27
Pathin Merrithay Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 473	Two things: The fear immunity from the various items is either so rare it's practically impossible to get or laughable to use. The AA line is a much better option. And yes, the haste from AA lines does stack with items.