Paladin Dueling tips

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

I know some of you were asking about how well we duel…so let me tell you we are probably in the top 5 when it comes to dueling....some tips follow:

Templars/ Inquis: This one is very long. I didn’t bother stunning very much until the end. This is basically a long, healing fight. Our DPS is better and our heals and wards pretty much take alot of their damage away. Save ur power for low energy attacks and save your power for healing and wards, takes a bit but u can beat them.

Guardians/ Berserker: If they have a SM u have to kill them and kill them fast, unless u have an SM too. The longer the fight goes on the more power u lose vs them because its pretty much a meele fight. Without power we have no heals or wards, so the quicker u can kill them the better. If you have a SM its ALOT easier. Stuns are useful, but this one is long. Berserkers are easier than guards just because they take more damage. When I fight a Bers I burn after them. The quicker the better. Use your Consecrated Aura, since they can’t heal. Maximize your damage as much as possible. I would even do this in offensive mode, since the extra power will come in handy and they cannot nuke, so we don’t need to resist.

Dirges/ Troubs: Troubs are a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Unless u stun and keep stunning you’re fubared. They can and will mez you. I have seen Troubs keep a player perma-mezzed the ENTIRE fight. The trick is to start out swinging and never stop. Cast a ward before the fight starts and then run and stun and keep kicking them around. If you stop for even a sec and ur gonna hurt, since their mez is fast acting. Dirges are a bit easier; I can beat a dirge alot easier than a Troub. Dirges will stun you run away and then bow you, but it wears off and you can chase them and swing away. Remember that shatter will and divine judgement can be cast while running..and so can ancient wrath.

Any type of caster:  Almost every caster I ran into I destroyed in less than 1 minute. I dont think they know how to use their classes just yet.  A couple of times I got ice cometed or stunned..and if they do stun you fast enough your dead, but if you're quick of the mark with a stun, they are done. DO NOT duel if they are on a carpet or fast horse, unless u have the same mount. An Illusioner on a carpet can fly away, mezz you, and you're done for. Our resist are higher than all other fighters.

Bruiser/ Monk: Monks and bruisers are not too hard. Bruisers have a 90 sec heal that gives them over 30% of their health back, dont know about monks…didnt see the monk use one. WARDS, WARDS, WARDS. It is CRITICAL that u stun and use your wards. They can mez you as well..I have been mezzed to the point of walking far away from the combat flags. They can be beat...specially if you use your Consecrated Aura. They do more DPS, but we got more heals and the ward, so it takes a moderately amount of time. Monks are easier. I came within 3% of beating a lvl 60 monk, who was full fabled, at lvl 54. Most likely he got over-confident, but I feel like I could have beaten him easily if I would have had Consecrated.

Assasins/ Rangers: Rangers are very tough. Their snares and slows are a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], use your wards heavily in this fight and use your ranged nukes, since you’re going to be slowed for most of the fight. Save your LOH type spells for their Stream of Arrows. Never stop moving with these guys, keep cycling your ranged nukes and your wards. Use your heavy nukes like RoG and RoF. They cannot heal themselves, so ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK.  Assasins on the are pretty tough. I split fights with them alot. They can stun you and ASSASINATE you for a TON of damage. When u stun them cast a ward immediately and it will help. Even if their assassinate is not up they can be pretty bad [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. They will invis pretty early in the fight, so I just run around till they hit me. They don’t have the slows and snares of Rangers, in fact, they don’t have the DPS of Rangers for the most part.

Furies/ Wardens: Beat one, but I don’t think he knew what he was doing, They can power drain, so unless you have some sort of power regen your done. They are probably the toughest fight of all. With their insane DPS and heals, coupled with power drain, its not pretty. I tried to stun and meele. Didn't bother with nukes, since their resist well. Wardens take a while, so stun when they cast and let them burn power healing themselves while u save ur power using wards. This one is a meele fight, so just wack away at them with Auto attack and stun them when they try to heal, by the time they do get a heal off they have to burn more power. They have comparable DPS to furies, so don’t fall asleep on this one. One bad move and kiss your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good bye. They have pretty good resists, so keep that in mind. Meele is better on this one, unless you can squeeze our big daddies. I don’t bother using our small nukes on these guys.

Conjurers/ Necros: Run in and stun, don’t bother with pets, bypass everything and go for broke. I burn very fast, very hard on them. The longer the fight goes the more damage u take from their pets. Same for necros. Necros can HEAL and they have life taps…I was shocked at the amount of self healing they can do. I got beat the first time I dueled a Necro by under-estimating their heals. If I had to do that one again I would have stunned them to death. They have crappy resists, so use your nukes. You can always tell when they are about to heal, that’s when you stun.

Paladins: are a pain in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Everything being equal its all up to the player skill. I have killed palys and they have killed me. Gear is nothing. Player skill is EVERYTHING when fighting a paly.

SK's: Heh, to tell the truth I have yet to beat a competent SK. They life tap me until I go below 40%, then its HT time for teh win. Very hard to beat one. Their DPS, coupled with their life tap, makes them just as tough if not tougher, than a Fury. Use your heals and wards exclusively. Dont even bother using nukes, save your power for heals and wards and wear them down. Force them to use their HT and pray that it doesnt one shot you. If they dont have HT, then the fight is moderate. USe your consecrate if they dont have HT.

Swashbucklers: These guys hurt. Use your wards and heals until they run out of power. They will stun you and run around you doing crazy damage, and I mean CRAZY! Unless your LOH is usable it’s extremely hard. When I killed him I was at 4% health. I was red before he was even yellow, he did the same thing many players do when they get you in the red, they start getting lazy. Ive seen Palys panic at the sheer amount of initial damage Swashies do. Keep your cool and stop yourself from burning all your power trying to heal yourself. They are burst..once you get though the initial phase you'll be ok. I used my sacrament line and saved my LoH for the end.

Haven’t fought a mystic yet, so I can’t tell you what its like A couple of tips for starting a duel and make sure u are standing in stun range.

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a) Invite to duel. When the counter hits 4 secs, cast a ward and then target your opponent.

b) Save your LoH for when u are hurting. Many times I was in the orange or yellow and my opponent started to get lazy. As soon as they slowed down I popped my LoH and went after them...some of them even stopped to type! It demoralizes them and confuses them many times. Gives u enough time to do some SERIOUS damage if you have even a little power saved.

c) Some of your nukes can be cast while running. HINT!

d) Save your power for wards and stuns if meele and burn hard when fighting a caster or a scout. Interrupt and stun right when they get ready to pop a skill. It  takes their power away and hurts them.

e) Use their weaknesses! If they have to cast dont let them. If they have to heal, then out DPS them. If they have to DPS, then ward against them.  If they have power drain then burn ALL your power as fast as possible.  If you have power regen take all the time you want.

f) Get an SM..repeat GET AN SM!!!! if they have an SM, burn everything u got  and remember to ward yourself. Let they waste their power going against your wards while u wack at them!

g) Never duel someone on a mount that you dont have the equivalent. Not only is fighting on a mount an exploit in my book, but it gives players an unfair advantage, because a mount is something bought.  It has nothing to do with a player class at all. They can fly circles around you and basically kite you, specially scouts or mages.

h) Use your Consecrated Aura on fights where power will not be critical. The extra DPS goes a long way. This is perfect for fighting casters and tanks.

 

This is my 2nd impression of dueling. Some of you may have different tactics or tips, so please post accordingly

 

Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on 11-15-2005 06:51 AM

[Blambil]

...

 

ok, I'm on 4 hours sleep in the last 48, but I've racked my brain, and no EQ applied acronyms are coming to mind...

 

 

"Get an SM.."

 

What the heck is an SM?

 

 

oh, and for what it's worth, my experiences have been about like yours... I'm having fun whacking wizards around.

 

 

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

Screaming Mace, heritage item. It procs power when u meele strike..so if your trading blows with a meele char and he has one and you don't, hes gonna have more power than you do...quite a bit more. This power will be used against you in the form of nasty DPS or healing for them.

[Blambil]

 

Thank you... and duuuuuuuuuuuh!

 

[GidionSWE]

pally vs pally is a freakin pita...too high divine resist so cant do dmg and if both got SM/prismatic then its just impossible to kill..

[Rochir]

I have yet to duel.   I have been challenged a lot.   I lost 2 shards in the clefts, had to petition to get them back.   Kept getting challenged while down 2 shards.   No thanks.  I will duel eventually.  We need something more than the arena for pvp, like Freeport vs Qeynos.  Now that I could get into

I think dueling is a good thing to have in EQ2 but PvP needs some work.

I agree on no dueling on mounts.   If anyone wants to duel me, they had better dismount first or no duel.  How can you stun/knockdown someone if they are mounted?

Back to the forge...

Message Edited by Rochir on 09-15-2005 05:24 PM

[Oneira]

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uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:

 

Bruiser/ Monk: Monks and bruisers are overpowered now. Bruisers have a 90 sec heal that gives them over 30% of their health back, dont know about monks..didnt see the monk use one. The Bruisers I fought I beat about 20 to 30% of the time, but let me tell you..WARDS, WARDS, WARDS. It is CRITICAL that u stun and use your wards. If not, its gonna be a short fight. They do more DPS, but we got more heals and the ward, so it takes a LONG time. Monks are easier, but not by much. Use your wards on these guys, dont bother using your heals until later in the fight.

 

 

 

I would just like to know on what basis you say that "Monks and Bruisers are overpowered now"...because we're good PvP?  That is not a good standard of judgement.  PvE is the main thing in this game.  Are we better than other classes at PvE?  No.

 

Look, Bruisers and Monks are tailor made classes for PvP: tops in Health, good DPS, stuns, and good defense.  If I were to pick a class for PvP purposes alone, Bruiser would be one of my top choices.

 

But please, do not say that we Monks/Bruisers are overpowered.  It's not true and it's not fair.  It sounds like you're calling for a nerf.

[Getty]

Get outta our FORUM!  *rawr*  :smileyvery-happy:

 

Them [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] spies!

 

P.S.  I think he might have meant overpowered versus us.

Message Edited by Getty on 09-15-2005 11:58 PM

[xIC]

Great THread Uzi!!

 

With the class descriptions i agree with all he said, so i have a few pointers that might help.

I beleive 75% if dueling is player skill.  Im okay at it,  I win some and lose some.  Here is the light at the end of the tunnel tho.  We have a semi twinked pally in our guild who has yet to lose.  He destroyed a fully twinked gaurdian and demoralizes a fully twinked (including master ice comet wizzy).  Ive seen him lay waste to a fully twinked monk and ranger as well. 

Take advantage of all your stuns and interrupts.  I cant stress this enough.  You will live and die by them against most classes.  Think if they cant get there spells off then your gold.  try to develope a rythm with them.  The reason i say that is i used to pop them off quickly in a fight and lay into people at the beginning of a fight knock half there power out quickly.  The next thing i know im waiting a few secs for the stuff to recharge and they are laying waste to me with their stuns and roots depending on class.  You always want to keep the pressure on.  The moment we have to go defensive (turtle and heal) it gets tough to keep up on them. But if they have to contantly bang away at the same spell just to get it off then thats less time they are hitting you.

We have a 5 s stun in our arsenal.  It is a beutiful thing especially agianst caster wizzards with master 1 ice comets.  Pop it off to start lay in on em with refusal, the ss, and the hit sheild bash. Drop in our dps but constantly interrupt.  If you have any cold resist gear wear it for a wizzy fight.  Ice comet hits [Removed for Content] hard if your not prepared but it is hard for them to land cause it is resisted often so make it harder on them for that.

I find shadowknights a tough fight as well.  This one really turns into a power battle.  They suck the life out of you as you heal yourself so it comes down to who has power the longest.

Keep posting your experiences here and ideas here. 

 

Demonslayor

[Kide]

Hello,

 

I cannot aggree with you about the mages. They cast invisibility, you do not even get them into the target, stun you in 2 secs and then you are dead. My boyfriend plays a wizzard and we did the duell, he did not even let me come near him and we have lost our very long range damage spell, so when he casts invisibility first and stuns you you are done. When he stays visible it is no problem for me to kill him. However, all the pvp is fun. And the pallies are not bad. I nuked down a templar and guard last night no problem at all.

[Pathin Merrithay]

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Oneira wrote:

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uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:

 

Bruiser/ Monk: Monks and bruisers are overpowered now. Bruisers have a 90 sec heal that gives them over 30% of their health back, dont know about monks..didnt see the monk use one. The Bruisers I fought I beat about 20 to 30% of the time, but let me tell you..WARDS, WARDS, WARDS. It is CRITICAL that u stun and use your wards. If not, its gonna be a short fight. They do more DPS, but we got more heals and the ward, so it takes a LONG time. Monks are easier, but not by much. Use your wards on these guys, dont bother using your heals until later in the fight.

 

 

 

I would just like to know on what basis you say that "Monks and Bruisers are overpowered now"...because we're good PvP?  That is not a good standard of judgement.  PvE is the main thing in this game.  Are we better than other classes at PvE?  No.

 

Look, Bruisers and Monks are tailor made classes for PvP: tops in Health, good DPS, stuns, and good defense.  If I were to pick a class for PvP purposes alone, Bruiser would be one of my top choices.

 

But please, do not say that we Monks/Bruisers are overpowered.  It's not true and it's not fair.  It sounds like you're calling for a nerf.

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Say what he wants, PvP or not, monks and bruisers are overpowered after the combat changes. I rarely make sweeping claims like this, and I'm still investigating so I can point to specfics if you want them, but they are.

Sorry.

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

OMG casters are the easiest of opponents! :smileywink:

tip #1 stay close! never start a duel against a caster unless ur close. 

tip #2 You got castable stuns that work while running! if your not close enough to shield bash, use your long range spell stuns! It has a quicker cast  than almost all the warlock/ wizzie stun. I know, I have a warlock. Well, actually they have an insta stun, but hats why its so important that you start close to them. I have succesfully resisted their stuns, but I did get stunned and ice cometed once, went from 4230 buffed hit points to less that 500. :smileyvery-happy: Good thing my LoH was up =P

tip #3 NEVER, EVER stop chasing them! run them down and cast, cast, cast! Remember, those big nukes require them to stand still to cast so as long as you keep chasing them they are too skeered to stop and cast.

 

tip #4 have your LoH ready just in case that nil distortion hits ya =P

 

tip #5 never duel with an offensive stance, NEVER! your defensive stance gives you really nice resists. Im a barbarian, so I chose cold resists as traits..combined with my stance resists against magic and divine and I got over 2k plus resists against magic, divine, and cold. Great for pesky wizards and palys.

 

Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on 09-16-2005 05:49 AM

[TooSwi]

I'm going to have to disagree with some points.  The dueling I have come across is all top notch (both players in full Fable/full or nearly full masters), these are my results: Inquis/Templar:  Cakewalk.  I resist 90% of their spells, then just get them in a stunlock (time your 3 stuns and 2 interrupts and you can put them in a perma stunlock) and just bash them down. Fury:  Lose every time.  Porcupine and power drains.  His heals are more efficient than your DPS, and your stunlock combo will be resisted at some point because it is a divine based combo.  I have yet to beat our Fury. Warden:  Try to get a stunlock and bash them as much as possible, once they are out of power it is over.  If they put up duststorm, just range them to get them to drop their power, then go in and kill. Defiler/Mystic:  Haven't dueled any yet, I will update this when I do. Warlock/Wizard:  Very easy.  You interrupt at start then put them in a stunlock and it's over.  I resist 90% of their spells as it is, you shouldn't lose here. Coercer/Illusionist:  Very easy.  When they mez you you can just take a little break, while you resist all their spells until mez breaks, then you just bash them to death. Conjuror/Necromancer:  Don't even bother.  Their pet will kill you as soon as the fight starts.  I managed to kill the conj pet in one duel, but I was promptly stifled and killed. Berserker/Guardian:  Very easy, just run them out of power and then kill them. Monk/Bruiser:  Its an OK fight, if your stunlock lands it's over, if not just run them out of power. Paladin/ShadowKnight:  Both are easy, again, run them out of power. Dirge/Troubador:  They will destroy you.  Stifles and kiting make for a sad Pally.  If you can get them in stunlock then you might have a chance, but with them in defensive stance you won't. Ranger/Assassin:  Well, our ranger pretty much does his 7 second stun at the start of the fight and then kills me soon after.  If you can get a LoH off and DS off you stand a chance if you can get in on them. Swash/Brigand:  Destroyed the swash, Lost to the Brigand.  Stuns and DPS > Pallies. From my experiece avoid Rangers, Assassins, Dirges, Conjurors, Furies, and Necromancers like the PLAGUE.  All other classes you stand a VERY good chance at beating.

[TooSwi]

Regarding players that go invisible at start, you can just use one of your out of encounter AoEs to break their invis.

[SanJ]

I have an interesting philosophy (at least to me regarding EQ2 PVP.  I feel Paladins have a nice arsenal of tools that can be deployed to win in almost every if not all situations verse players of equal or similar levels.  This same philosophy, IMHO, carries over from my RL martial arts training and conceptually would work for most classes given SOE has provided the "right" tools. 

 

My first philosophy is if an opponent can't hit/touch you, the opponent can't hurt you!  Think about that for a second. (If we can find a way to embrace this concept, healing wouldn't be as critical in PVP as you might think for the Paladin)

 

How do you translate that into EQ2 dueling?  I believe for Paladins the answer is interupts and stuns.  Yes, I'm aware we are going to be resisted, so it's critical you pay close attention when your opponent is under a state effect.  However, if you can strike first (a major key) and stun or interupt your opponent, it should be possible to calculate to some degree the duration of time you have between the opponent being no threat and becoming dangerous even if it's nothing more then you watching them fall down and get back up again.

 

The key in my opinion is to stun or stifle first and follow up with damage, stun or stifle again and follow up with more damage. 

 

Rinse and repeat this scenerio with the appropriate timing and if you strike first, your opponent MAY never get to strike or move to the offensive.  As an example, consider a quality played wizard that locks you into place and shake and bakes you with heavy hitters until you're dead ... you remain stifled/stunned/locked/rooted so healing/warding/LOH isn't even possible--this is always a recipe for disaster.  However, if you can strike first and keep that same opponent from ever casting against you, by the very nature of that combat scenerio you WILL win!

 

I'm considering working on a hotkey setup for Paladins that might help demonstrate this philosophy better.  However, I'll generically mention a few things below that might get you started on the right track IF (the key word) you're struggling with PVP.

 

A great piece of advice for contemplation is "KNOW your enemy and know your enemy well."  If you want to suceed in PVP, take the time to identify what other player classes bring to the table.  Could they invis?  Could they drain your power?  Is the primary damage type you deal easily resisted?  Could cold gear eliminate the insane damage Wizards drop with Ice Comet and other elemental attacks ... as examples?  Spending some time learning about your opponent's abilities will go a long way towards prep work in dueling.  However, all of that aside, my goal here is to demonstrate a method I believe works easily MOST of the time against equally and sometimes better skilled players if you learn the sequence of attacks and the proper timing. 

 

Remember that knowing YOUR OWN skills is equally important as knowing your enemies! /ponder that one too

 

1. After buffing and properly equipping for the opponent you are about to face, hold until shortly before battle and cast your ward to absorb any/some early damage that might arise especially if your opponent gets the upper hand and FIRST STRIKE.  The ward may be the perfect tool you need to stay alive until you have a chance to get to step 2.

2. Your goal should be to USE your FASTEST stifle or knockdown/stun/blur vision attack right out of the gates (I would recommend either a shield bash or charge line attack as they seem to be the fastest.  If you find yourself in bad health (non DOT situation), don't worry about healing (panic mode I call it) until you get the opponent stunned or stifled.  If you start healing they will just shut it down over and over until you are dead--YOU NEED TO REGAIN CONTROL!

3. Now that the mob is not a threat for a short time, get some damage started through a DOT attack

4. Follow the attack with another attack if time permits or go with another quick stun from the shield or charge line

5. Add more damage as the opponent is not a threat (ROG would work well here for good fast higher damage).

6. Quickly move towards a stifle attack (Shatter Will) or Unyielding Conviction (watch the blue background AOE if you are around aggro)

7. Deal more damage

8. Refresh your ward

9. Stifle or stun

 

The basic key here is to ward right before battle starts, strike first with a stifle or stun but use what you have that casts the fastest.  Next, deal some damage (I like DOTs to start so as I'm preparing to go back to defensive mode--I in essence have offense still kicking through the DOT).  You want, based on timing and trial and error will likely be required, to stifle or stun and then slip in at least one if not two or three damage attacks followed quickly again by the next stun or stifle.  Your PRIMARY object beyond gaining first strike is to keep the opponent from ever attacking you.  Don't get greedy trying to dish out too much damage between stifles and stuns or you COULD loose.  Take your time, follow these tactics and you'll win more times then you loose against most classes. 

 

Paladins have at least two attacks that knockdown/stun/blur vision and at least 2 if not 3 (I'm at work and can't check at the moment) that interupt.  THEY ARE YOUR FRIENDS! 

 

I have actually configured a hotkey bar that has odds stun and stifle (in the order I perfer) and evens damage (in the order I perfer) so PVP is almost a thoughtless process as it seems to be repeatedly working--not always, but most of the time.  

 

Great advice has already been offered in this thread, but a final word of caution about DISTANCE should be mentioned.  We are melee (most of our ranged nukes are stationary cast now or worse yet melee range when they used to be long range pullers so that takes adjustment).   KEEP the distance between you and your opponent CLOSED.  In other words, don't let them get out of melee range.  I love what Judgement Strike offers and Refusal of Grace (ROG), but since only Judgement Strike may be cast while moving, I tend to "save" it in case the distance gap opens or I'm rooted, but not stifled or stunned and too far away for melee.

 

I never will forget in SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) a player I met that had just started the game literally after most players had months of PVP experience.  I would watch this guy around the star ports asking anyone and everyone to duel.  It was almost humorous to watch a guy several "skills/levels" lower with sub par equipment quickly and easily be defeated.  However, as the weeks progressed, I would pass this same player and notice title changes (he was leveling up) and gear changes (for the better) and less takers for PVP challenges then before.  He had PVP'd so much and learned so much he was getting stronger and stronger at the art of PVP.  A year or so after I quit the game, I was talking to someone in EQ2 that had station access.  This new EQ2 friend was telling me about ALMOST beating one of the toughest and LEGENDARY PVP players on his server in SWG, my old SWG server--guess who?  Yep!

 

Good luck and remember you are Paladin.  Win with grace, honor and dignity and loose in the same fashion.

Thanks,

Kalen

[xIC]

Bump,

 

So we are a week into the expansion and new things have been found and learned,  anyone have some new info on dueling and more advice? 

 

Demonslayor

[Fellgaze]

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TooSwiss wrote:
Regarding players that go invisible at start, you can just use one of your out of encounter AoEs to break their invis.

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Or, if you're a Kerra, use Sonic Vision.

[BlackW]

This a bump of a very good thread.   I am going to include some of the tips here in my guide.

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

Dueling tips are updated to reflect changes in the game and a change in tactics.

[TrekkerSnake]

Use a totem of the butterfly. It will allow you to see invis and take away one of mage and scout classes biggest advantages.

[g0thiC_iCe_cReaM]

good advice

keep lots of power regen potions available and make sure u buff against the particular class' damage if at all possible

 

furys are a peice of cake (wardens are even easier)...mystics put up a good fight...rangers are hit or miss...casters are like paper...healers are a pain but i can take them out usually, just remember to conserve power and have your stuns/interrupts ready, keep the healers healing themselves with dots and reduce their divine mit with your ae taunt...interrupt their damage spells as much as possible, they'll run out of power eventually...SKs avoid at all costs lol