Enough Already...

MeridianR · 08-07-2005, 07:48 PM

As to not violate the ToS on these boards, I won't mention names, but enough already. The testing from the L50 Paladin means more to everyone here, then your little rants about not being able to solo yellow heroic mobs.

BTW - 30-45 secs, is enough time to rez (you know something we have) the healer back, heal to full power and then get back into the fight.

Now please, stop flooding the boards, with your negative bs, and wait to see the complete changes. Or just up and quit instead of waiting for all of the changes to come through.

Fellgaze · 08-07-2005, 08:00 PM

MeridianR wrote:

As to not violate the ToS on these boards, I won't mention names, but enough already. The testing from the L50 Paladin means more to everyone here, then your little rants about not being able to solo yellow heroic mobs.

BTW - 30-45 secs, is enough time to rez (you know something we have) the healer back, heal to full power and then get back into the fight.

Now please, stop flooding the boards, with your negative bs, and wait to see the complete changes. Or just up and quit instead of waiting for all of the changes to come through.

Bloody well quoted for truth. But sadly I expect it will amount to nothing.

Pathin Merrithay · 08-08-2005, 01:53 PM

Thank heavens for Meridian, once again a voice of reason. BW... Enough. We get the point. You're upset. Now stop spamming the boards and padding your post count because this is just getting in the way of most of us actually discussing this issue.

And as an aside, 5 Starring the posts above mine. The BW 1-star bandit struck them, and though I know I'll get similar treatment, I'm willing to take the hits.

Message Edited by Pathin Merrithay on 08-08-2005 05:54 AM

MeridianR · 08-08-2005, 03:45 PM

Pathin Merrithay wrote:

Thank heavens for Meridian, once again a voice of reason. BW... Enough. We get the point. You're upset. Now stop spamming the boards and padding your post count because this is just getting in the way of most of us actually discussing this issue.

And as an aside, 5 Starring the posts above mine. The BW 1-star bandit struck them, and though I know I'll get similar treatment, I'm willing to take the hits.

Message Edited by Pathin Merrithay on 08-08-2005 05:54 AM

- Pretty much I turned off star ratings, since once you say something negative or go against someone it normally turns out that you have a 1 star stalker/bandit following all of your posts.

djhbeek · 08-08-2005, 06:08 PM

amen to all of this. this is the first time in 6 months or so that i will be marking all messages on this forum as read without reading them as opposed to reading every message on here.

strix · 08-08-2005, 06:11 PM

Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already.

BlackW · 08-08-2005, 07:07 PM

strixus wrote:
Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already.

I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers.

strix · 08-08-2005, 10:42 PM

BlackWeb wrote:

strixus wrote:Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already.

I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers.

If youre trying to respond, why are over half the posts on the front page of our forum from you? And, to stress the point that several devs have tried to make THEY ARENT DONE WITH FIGHTERS YET. So stop with the sky is falling mentality, quit spaming information which isnt correct (your one post on rings comes to mind right away), and wait a few more days till we get the rest of the patches into place. I know I'm not the only one tired of this.

BlackW · 08-08-2005, 11:09 PM

strixus wrote:

BlackWeb wrote:

strixus wrote:
Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already.

I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers.

If youre trying to respond, why are over half the posts on the front page of our forum from you? And, to stress the point that several devs have tried to make THEY ARENT DONE WITH FIGHTERS YET. So stop with the sky is falling mentality, quit spaming information which isnt correct (your one post on rings comes to mind right away), and wait a few more days till we get the rest of the patches into place.

I know I'm not the only one tired of this.

I use 2 ring buffs on that character on test, strength and agility. I tried casting them both several times on Test. Each time, one cancelled the other. If you can show me a screenshot of a character on Test with 2 ring buffs active at the same time, I would be happy to admit that I was wrong and retract my statement.

Here is the link to my post with the numbers and screenshots:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=13383

I double and triple checked everything so that it matches the screenshots and the descriptions of the skills. I triple checked the combat screenshots to make sure the number displayed in orange matches the damage of the spell or CA being used. I rounded up and down where appropriate, checked all the units to make sure they work out properly. The numbers I presented are accurate though incomplete. I do not have time to cover all of the spells and CAs so I covered what I believe to be the most important ones. The only speculation or estimation takes place in the character progression section and I clearly state that it is a rough estimate.

I compiled all of my posts into a single post to reduce the number of posts, organize the data and make it more readable. I have invited everyone to check my numbers to see if they are wrong. If I made a mistake, I will be happy to correct it. I also included the following disclaimer at the end of every post I have recently made:

"Please remember that according to Moorgard, changes for fighters and priests are unfinished. These numbers could change."

Please let me know if there is anything else I can do.

Fellgaze · 08-08-2005, 11:16 PM

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=876

In that post is a response by 2 people who state they've used both ring buffs without issue. Blackweb is it possible that you're talking about 2 identical rings with the same buff type, i.e. Agility buffs? Maybe those don't stack (one of the responders states he is using STR and AGI buffs together form 2 different rings). If not, you may want to go back on test and try again. But if it does, in fact, still work, it illustrates two things;

1- SOE may be correcting things faster than we think (assuming the problem existed at the time Blackweb experienced it).

or

2- You may want to hold off on posting things until the information is conclusive and tested extensively. Otherwise, it leads to panic on other players' part....

djhbeek · 08-08-2005, 11:18 PM

BW, none of that was anything new, just the same old stuff over again ... look at this thread, look at that thread ... if you have something _new_ to say please tell us, but posting your "evidence" once again on a "please stop the spamming thread" is really annoying. if you want to keep your posting privileges, please listen to your fellow pallies and for heaven's sake, stop monopolizing the pally forums!

Message Edited by djhbeek on 08-08-2005 03:18 PM

djhbeek · 08-08-2005, 11:20 PM

Fellgaze wrote:
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=876

In that post is a response by 2 people who state they've used both ring buffs without issue. Blackweb is it possible that you're talking about 2 identical rings with the same buff type, i.e. Agility buffs? Maybe those don't stack (one of the responders states he is using STR and AGI buffs together form 2 different rings). If not, you may want to go back on test and try again. But if it does, in fact, still work, it illustrates two things;

1- SOE may be correcting things faster than we think (assuming the problem existed at the time Blackweb experienced it).

or

2- You may want to hold off on posting things until the information is conclusive and tested extensively. Otherwise, it leads to panic on other players' part....

i can confirm that using 2 of the SAME ring does NOT work on live (i tried this a couple of months ago) ...

BlackW · 08-08-2005, 11:39 PM

Fellgaze wrote:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=876

In that post is a response by 2 people who state they've used both ring buffs without issue. Blackweb is it possible that you're talking about 2 identical rings with the same buff type, i.e. Agility buffs? Maybe those don't stack (one of the responders states he is using STR and AGI buffs together form 2 different rings). If not, you may want to go back on test and try again. But if it does, in fact, still work, it illustrates two things;

1- SOE may be correcting things faster than we think (assuming the problem existed at the time Blackweb experienced it).

or

2- You may want to hold off on posting things until the information is conclusive and tested extensively. Otherwise, it leads to panic on other players' part....

I will log onto test and check it right now. Believe me, it was not something I wanted to report and I did check it several times.

I just logged onto test and I was able to use both ring buffs. Either I made a mistake or it has been fixed. If I made a mistake, I humbly apologize.

Message Edited by BlackWeb on 08-08-2005 12:46 PM

BlackW · 08-08-2005, 11:40 PM

djhbeek wrote:
BW,

none of that was anything new, just the same old stuff over again ... look at this thread, look at that thread ... if you have something _new_ to say please tell us, but posting your "evidence" once again on a "please stop the spamming thread" is really annoying. if you want to keep your posting privileges, please listen to your fellow pallies and for heaven's sake, stop monopolizing the pally forums!

Message Edited by djhbeek on 08-08-2005 03:18 PM

I have compiled several of my posts/threads into one thread. If I could delete the origonals, I would. I am not a forum mod last time I checked SMILEY

Ruben · 08-10-2005, 08:39 PM

Say what you want, but Black has always been passionate about this class and tried to speak out, yep he can be wrong. But do you realize how many people may now make a character on test to check things out. I know 10 paladins who have just out of the 15 or so I have talked to since black first started making posts.

If everyone had taken the sit and wait mood of as it seems alot of you have then we would have less people testing and giving feedback.

Most of the people i see backing black are the lower level and solo/duo paladins and the ones discrediting and critizing seem to post alot about MTing and group/raid.

Maybe instead of bashing someone you should be stating how you see things from that standpoint, because no matter what two different play styles are not going to see this as having the same effect.

If someone post something in error then post what you see as correct, as was done with the ring buffs and leave it at that. Attacking and discrediting anyone you dont agree with only reflects on you.

BdybldKris · 08-10-2005, 08:51 PM

I've never bashed nor condemned BW for his opinions. I'm glad he's willing to put in the time to test and help discuss the Paladin's class. However, when the revamp initially went live, the posts were all so negative they weren't even constructive. Not to mention, there were at LEAST 4 threads that essentially said the exact same thing and carried the same "I QUIT, THE SKY IS FALLING" attitude.

With that said, BW has backed off that stance and I think the majority of his posts initially were genuine frustration. Also, now that many are testing the changes that are currently on Test, they are still coming to the assumption that the revamp is in it's final stage there, which it isn't.

I tested the changes with my Paly last night and all I can say (due to NDA and beta) is that I've been happy thus far. There's still tweaking to be done, but it's definitely going in the right direction.

Continue to test. Continue to post your concerns....but please try to be constructive. BW has definitely tried to move in that direction and I commend him for it. The dev's don't want to read whiny posts that have no merit or solutions.

djhbeek · 08-10-2005, 08:59 PM

RubenBlades wrote:
If everyone had taken the sit and wait mood of as it seems alot of you have then we would have less people testing and giving feedback.

I think there's a difference between feedback and freaking out. Some of what I read every day is freaking out (and I'm not specifically talking about BW here).

Most of the people i see backing black are the lower level and solo/duo paladins and the ones discrediting and critizing seem to post alot about MTing and group/raid.

This is neither here nor there. I see alot of side-taking as far as the solo/duo vs raiding guild opinions. This is just prejudice or jealously in most cases. And believe me, if you post on the forums enough with a raiding guild in your sig, you realize how stereotypically you get treated (for the most part). I really don't care what lower level pallies say about the low end game, 'cause frankly, alot has changed since I was there, they know more than I do about that subject. Most of the criticism by raiding pallies I see occurs when people who just started raiding make statements that just don't hold up. You would rather those of us that have the experience don't correct these?

Maybe instead of bashing someone you should be stating how you see things from that standpoint, because no matter what two different play styles are not going to see this as having the same effect.

You know ... if saying that starting alot of threads and I'd like to see less of it is bashing, well then yah I'm guilty, and no I'm not sorry. Whether BW agreed to the sentiment or not, he, too his credit, addressed the issue as far as I understand, so I really don't see the point in continueing that particular discusssion.

If someone post something in error then post what you see as correct, as was done with the ring buffs and leave it at that. Attacking and discrediting anyone you dont agree with only reflects on you.

Attacking ... discrediting you don't agree with ... hmm ... /em introduces pot to kettle. A certain amount of disagreement is healthy, and I'm not really a big fan of sitting around blowing sunshine up ... . When the signal/noise ratio gets too low though, something has to be said (my opinion).

Ruben · 08-10-2005, 09:20 PM

djhbeek wrote:

RubenBlades wrote:

If everyone had taken the sit and wait mood of as it seems alot of you have then we would have less people testing and giving feedback.

I think there's a difference between feedback and freaking out. Some of what I read every day is freaking out (and I'm not specifically talking about BW here).

Most of the people i see backing black are the lower level and solo/duo paladins and the ones discrediting and critizing seem to post alot about MTing and group/raid.

This is neither here nor there. I see alot of side-taking as far as the solo/duo vs raiding guild opinions. This is just prejudice or jealously in most cases. And believe me, if you post on the forums enough with a raiding guild in your sig, you realize how stereotypically you get treated (for the most part). I really don't care what lower level pallies say about the low end game, 'cause frankly, alot has changed since I was there, they know more than I do about that subject. Most of the criticism by raiding pallies I see occurs when people who just started raiding make statements that just don't hold up. You would rather those of us that have the experience don't correct these?

Maybe instead of bashing someone you should be stating how you see things from that standpoint, because no matter what two different play styles are not going to see this as having the same effect.

You know ... if saying that starting alot of threads and I'd like to see less of it is bashing, well then yah I'm guilty, and no I'm not sorry. Whether BW agreed to the sentiment or not, he, too his credit, addressed the issue as far as I understand, so I really don't see the point in continueing that particular discusssion.

If someone post something in error then post what you see as correct, as was done with the ring buffs and leave it at that. Attacking and discrediting anyone you dont agree with only reflects on you.

Attacking ... discrediting you don't agree with ... hmm ... /em introduces pot to kettle. A certain amount of disagreement is healthy, and I'm not really a big fan of sitting around blowing sunshine up ... . When the signal/noise ratio gets too low though, something has to be said (my opinion).

I actually wasnt pointing at any one person in particular or this thread in particular but at the whole mood here lately. discrediting and pointing out errors are two different things, some of the post i seen lately have no bearing on subject at hand except to blow off one person or the other as not credible.

In the end SoE is to blame for the intial reactions since they put something this negative on to test after having worked 7+ months on it. Most people arent in beta, so all that time goes by and this is what you get (yes we all noted that it was still in process), most are going to still freak a bit.

All I am trying to get across is for the bashing to stop, black and others have admitted they got a bit emotional so lets leave it be and start talking about the tweaks and how they effect all over us.

Some will bring info on solo, some on grouping and some on raids so everyone can see how it impacts their style.

djhbeek · 08-10-2005, 09:39 PM

THAT i agree with :smileyhappy:

Gornd · 08-10-2005, 09:57 PM

Lets say I'd never hire BW as a tester for my company. Not only does he pick and choose the extremes to bring forward but he does so with little validifying evidence. It's pretty obvious that everything is so dependant on the whole system that analyzing one specific part to a before/after scenario just won't cut it. Couple this with the fact that his test enviroment is completely one sided and not diversified. Not to mention he's been on test for 40 levels and just today found out that there was a test forum begs me to ask questions. If you really want to do the paladin community a favor then please go out and test out the system with logs, parses, etc. Solo the right mobs, post the time it takes for you to use up all your power, get in a variety of groups and find out how mobs dps is differeniated between past and present, etc. Taking the time to test right and make analytical comparisons will weigh in a lot more with the developers then someone who is far too outspoken in far too little testing time. Gorndax Leader of Legacy Unrest 50 paladin/50 armorer

yzyh · 08-10-2005, 10:44 PM

BlackWeb wrote:

strixus wrote:
Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already.

I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers.

Don't take it personaly. But many players just can't handle that some other players can think the wonderfull programmor of their wonderfull PC game could have made a bad move. They rather protect the reputation of the game they play then beeing agaisnt a nerf that wasn't necessairy for the Whole class balance.

For most nerf their is poeple complaining agaisnt the nerf. And people that belive more in SoE then God.

And what this guy is talking about ? You post screenshot and they scream to miss information ????

celdar · 08-10-2005, 10:54 PM

I agree, enough already. I am done posting on this subject after this last post.

We don't know what is going live, so it's all speculation based on what's on Test, end even that may change. For all we know, SoE may take weapons away from us altogether and make us dual-wield shields, with "Shield Bash as our only offense. SMILEY

Fron what I have heard so far, EQ2 sounds like it will not be fun after the revamp for folks who primarily like to solo. If that's the case, I'd expect folks to quit, or Splitpaw to suddenly gain in popularity as it may be the only place where soloing gains exp at anywhere near an acceptable rate. When I'm soloing in Lava on green ^^ MoB's and get a group invite, it's easy to accept. If I get a tell asking me to help and I'm deep in Hargraves? Well, maybe the Assassin can tank for yas. SMILEY

Kendricke · 08-10-2005, 11:21 PM

yzyh wrote:

BlackWeb wrote:

strixus wrote:
Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already.

I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers.

Don't take it personaly. But many players just can't handle that some other players can think the wonderfull programmor of their wonderfull PC game could have made a bad move. They rather protect the reputation of the game they play then beeing agaisnt a nerf that wasn't necessairy for the Whole class balance.

For most nerf their is poeple complaining agaisnt the nerf. And people that belive more in SoE then God.

And what this guy is talking about ? You post screenshot and they scream to miss information ????

If you're going to argue that "faith" is the wrong approach, then you may wish to avoid putting too much "faith" into another player. Question everyone. Question the developers. Question other players. Question God, if you wish. Ask questions. The moment you just start taking conjecture at face value is the moment you've placed more importance on your faith than on facts.

Remember, just because you see a fact doesn't mean anything without pretext or context. Question everything. Ask questions. Take nothing - NOTHING - on faith alone.

Vampy · 08-10-2005, 11:46 PM

I am comfortable taking a few things on faith, then again I AM a Paladin and this IS the Paladin forum.

STIMCE · 08-11-2005, 04:00 AM

i have read and read these posts for awhile now and have finally decided to reply to one.... Just let the changes take place and then decide for yourself whether you are staying or going(this is in general to one person,not the poster of this thread but one he speaks of also). Please spare us of the rest of the banter.:smileymad:

Arathan · 08-11-2005, 05:05 AM

I don't understand why if it bothers the same 3-4 people (you know who you are) everytime a certain someone (you know who he is) posts something...umm just ignore it and it will fall down the forum list. Every time the fanboi rage rises and someone posts "OMG!!!1!! stop posting about the combat changes" you've just bumped the post back up to the top.

Remember:

Everytime you make a useless post, Domo-kun devours a very cute kitten.

THINK OF THE KITTENS!

djhbeek · 08-11-2005, 05:19 AM

this is a dead issue ... it has been discussed to death ...

xIC · 08-11-2005, 07:52 AM

/agree

I'm a bit tired of all the threats to quit in the paladin forum. For all i care, more masters for me then. Also tired of the knee jerk reactions to everything. Im guilty of it too and will take a step back as well.

Demonslayor

BlackW · 08-11-2005, 06:19 PM

I have just spent the past hour carefully reading the Forum Rules of Conduct by Moorgard:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=rules&message.id=1

and Faarwolf's thoughts concerning forum conduct

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=rules&message.id=14

I think if we follow these rules, it will have a postitive effect on the Paladin forum and the EQ2 community. I for one intend to do so :smileywink:

Nurta · 08-14-2005, 12:38 PM

Holy ....

So I see I missed allot while I was out. I'm guessing I should disregard most of the posts on the front page and just read the ones from the level 50 paladins? It looks like someone went on a crusade or should I say tirade?

From what I can tell, we keep our rez, we lose DPS, we get a group heal. Is there more or less? I need cliff notes for the paladin forums!

08-07-2005, 07:48 PM	#1
MeridianR Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,402	As to not violate the ToS on these boards, I won't mention names, but enough already. The testing from the L50 Paladin means more to everyone here, then your little rants about not being able to solo yellow heroic mobs. BTW - 30-45 secs, is enough time to rez (you know something we have) the healer back, heal to full power and then get back into the fight. Now please, stop flooding the boards, with your negative bs, and wait to see the complete changes. Or just up and quit instead of waiting for all of the changes to come through. __________________ Meridian - L70 Brigand (Vendetta)

08-07-2005, 08:00 PM	#2
Fellgaze Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 88	MeridianR wrote: As to not violate the ToS on these boards, I won't mention names, but enough already. The testing from the L50 Paladin means more to everyone here, then your little rants about not being able to solo yellow heroic mobs. BTW - 30-45 secs, is enough time to rez (you know something we have) the healer back, heal to full power and then get back into the fight. Now please, stop flooding the boards, with your negative bs, and wait to see the complete changes. Or just up and quit instead of waiting for all of the changes to come through. Bloody well quoted for truth. But sadly I expect it will amount to nothing. __________________ "The race is on between software engineers who are trying to build bigger and better idiot-proof software, and the Universe which is trying to build bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -Richard Cook

08-08-2005, 03:45 PM	#4
MeridianR Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,402	Pathin Merrithay wrote: Thank heavens for Meridian, once again a voice of reason. BW... Enough. We get the point. You're upset. Now stop spamming the boards and padding your post count because this is just getting in the way of most of us actually discussing this issue. And as an aside, 5 Starring the posts above mine. The BW 1-star bandit struck them, and though I know I'll get similar treatment, I'm willing to take the hits. Message Edited by Pathin Merrithay on 08-08-2005 05:54 AM - Pretty much I turned off star ratings, since once you say something negative or go against someone it normally turns out that you have a 1 star stalker/bandit following all of your posts. __________________ Meridian - L70 Brigand (Vendetta)

08-08-2005, 06:08 PM	#5
djhbeek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 679	amen to all of this. this is the first time in 6 months or so that i will be marking all messages on this forum as read without reading them as opposed to reading every message on here. __________________ Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?

08-08-2005, 06:11 PM	#6
strix General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already. __________________ Yes, I'm a kerra. A kerra with a really big sword. And an even bigger catnip habbit.

08-08-2005, 01:53 PM	#3
Pathin Merrithay Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 473	Thank heavens for Meridian, once again a voice of reason. BW... Enough. We get the point. You're upset. Now stop spamming the boards and padding your post count because this is just getting in the way of most of us actually discussing this issue. And as an aside, 5 Starring the posts above mine. The BW 1-star bandit struck them, and though I know I'll get similar treatment, I'm willing to take the hits. Message Edited by Pathin Merrithay on 08-08-2005 05:54 AM

08-08-2005, 07:07 PM	#7
BlackW Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 496	strixus wrote: Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already. I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers. __________________ Blackweb, Human Paladin - Lucan Dlere Roleplay Server Order of Marr Crusader/Paladin Guide - In Progress

08-08-2005, 10:42 PM	#8
strix General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	BlackWeb wrote: strixus wrote:Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already. I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers. If youre trying to respond, why are over half the posts on the front page of our forum from you? And, to stress the point that several devs have tried to make THEY ARENT DONE WITH FIGHTERS YET. So stop with the sky is falling mentality, quit spaming information which isnt correct (your one post on rings comes to mind right away), and wait a few more days till we get the rest of the patches into place. I know I'm not the only one tired of this. __________________ Yes, I'm a kerra. A kerra with a really big sword. And an even bigger catnip habbit.

08-08-2005, 11:09 PM	#9
BlackW Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 496	strixus wrote: BlackWeb wrote: strixus wrote: Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already. I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers. If youre trying to respond, why are over half the posts on the front page of our forum from you? And, to stress the point that several devs have tried to make THEY ARENT DONE WITH FIGHTERS YET. So stop with the sky is falling mentality, quit spaming information which isnt correct (your one post on rings comes to mind right away), and wait a few more days till we get the rest of the patches into place. I know I'm not the only one tired of this. I use 2 ring buffs on that character on test, strength and agility. I tried casting them both several times on Test. Each time, one cancelled the other. If you can show me a screenshot of a character on Test with 2 ring buffs active at the same time, I would be happy to admit that I was wrong and retract my statement. Here is the link to my post with the numbers and screenshots: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=13383 I double and triple checked everything so that it matches the screenshots and the descriptions of the skills. I triple checked the combat screenshots to make sure the number displayed in orange matches the damage of the spell or CA being used. I rounded up and down where appropriate, checked all the units to make sure they work out properly. The numbers I presented are accurate though incomplete. I do not have time to cover all of the spells and CAs so I covered what I believe to be the most important ones. The only speculation or estimation takes place in the character progression section and I clearly state that it is a rough estimate. I compiled all of my posts into a single post to reduce the number of posts, organize the data and make it more readable. I have invited everyone to check my numbers to see if they are wrong. If I made a mistake, I will be happy to correct it. I also included the following disclaimer at the end of every post I have recently made: "Please remember that according to Moorgard, changes for fighters and priests are unfinished. These numbers could change." Please let me know if there is anything else I can do. __________________ Blackweb, Human Paladin - Lucan Dlere Roleplay Server Order of Marr Crusader/Paladin Guide - In Progress

08-08-2005, 11:16 PM	#10
Fellgaze Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 88	http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=876 In that post is a response by 2 people who state they've used both ring buffs without issue. Blackweb is it possible that you're talking about 2 identical rings with the same buff type, i.e. Agility buffs? Maybe those don't stack (one of the responders states he is using STR and AGI buffs together form 2 different rings). If not, you may want to go back on test and try again. But if it does, in fact, still work, it illustrates two things; 1- SOE may be correcting things faster than we think (assuming the problem existed at the time Blackweb experienced it). or 2- You may want to hold off on posting things until the information is conclusive and tested extensively. Otherwise, it leads to panic on other players' part.... __________________ "The race is on between software engineers who are trying to build bigger and better idiot-proof software, and the Universe which is trying to build bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -Richard Cook

08-08-2005, 11:18 PM	#11
djhbeek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 679	BW, none of that was anything new, just the same old stuff over again ... look at this thread, look at that thread ... if you have something _new_ to say please tell us, but posting your "evidence" once again on a "please stop the spamming thread" is really annoying. if you want to keep your posting privileges, please listen to your fellow pallies and for heaven's sake, stop monopolizing the pally forums! Message Edited by djhbeek on 08-08-2005 03:18 PM __________________ Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?

08-08-2005, 11:20 PM	#12
djhbeek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 679	Fellgaze wrote: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=876 In that post is a response by 2 people who state they've used both ring buffs without issue. Blackweb is it possible that you're talking about 2 identical rings with the same buff type, i.e. Agility buffs? Maybe those don't stack (one of the responders states he is using STR and AGI buffs together form 2 different rings). If not, you may want to go back on test and try again. But if it does, in fact, still work, it illustrates two things; 1- SOE may be correcting things faster than we think (assuming the problem existed at the time Blackweb experienced it). or 2- You may want to hold off on posting things until the information is conclusive and tested extensively. Otherwise, it leads to panic on other players' part.... i can confirm that using 2 of the SAME ring does NOT work on live (i tried this a couple of months ago) ... __________________ Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?

08-08-2005, 11:39 PM	#13
BlackW Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 496	Fellgaze wrote: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=876 In that post is a response by 2 people who state they've used both ring buffs without issue. Blackweb is it possible that you're talking about 2 identical rings with the same buff type, i.e. Agility buffs? Maybe those don't stack (one of the responders states he is using STR and AGI buffs together form 2 different rings). If not, you may want to go back on test and try again. But if it does, in fact, still work, it illustrates two things; 1- SOE may be correcting things faster than we think (assuming the problem existed at the time Blackweb experienced it). or 2- You may want to hold off on posting things until the information is conclusive and tested extensively. Otherwise, it leads to panic on other players' part.... I will log onto test and check it right now. Believe me, it was not something I wanted to report and I did check it several times. I just logged onto test and I was able to use both ring buffs. Either I made a mistake or it has been fixed. If I made a mistake, I humbly apologize. Message Edited by BlackWeb on 08-08-2005 12:46 PM __________________ Blackweb, Human Paladin - Lucan Dlere Roleplay Server Order of Marr Crusader/Paladin Guide - In Progress

08-08-2005, 11:40 PM	#14
BlackW Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 496	djhbeek wrote: BW, none of that was anything new, just the same old stuff over again ... look at this thread, look at that thread ... if you have something _new_ to say please tell us, but posting your "evidence" once again on a "please stop the spamming thread" is really annoying. if you want to keep your posting privileges, please listen to your fellow pallies and for heaven's sake, stop monopolizing the pally forums! Message Edited by djhbeek on 08-08-2005 03:18 PM I have compiled several of my posts/threads into one thread. If I could delete the origonals, I would. I am not a forum mod last time I checked __________________ Blackweb, Human Paladin - Lucan Dlere Roleplay Server Order of Marr Crusader/Paladin Guide - In Progress

08-10-2005, 08:39 PM	#15
Ruben Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Maryville, Tennessee Posts: 105	Say what you want, but Black has always been passionate about this class and tried to speak out, yep he can be wrong. But do you realize how many people may now make a character on test to check things out. I know 10 paladins who have just out of the 15 or so I have talked to since black first started making posts. If everyone had taken the sit and wait mood of as it seems alot of you have then we would have less people testing and giving feedback. Most of the people i see backing black are the lower level and solo/duo paladins and the ones discrediting and critizing seem to post alot about MTing and group/raid. Maybe instead of bashing someone you should be stating how you see things from that standpoint, because no matter what two different play styles are not going to see this as having the same effect. If someone post something in error then post what you see as correct, as was done with the ring buffs and leave it at that. Attacking and discrediting anyone you dont agree with only reflects on you. __________________ Ruben - 73 Froglock Monk Rudie Bagle - 73 Gnome Warden 71 Iceheart Half-Elf Swashbuckler BlackBurrow Server CoLeader and CoFounder - Order Of Honor

08-10-2005, 08:51 PM	#16
BdybldKris Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 37	I've never bashed nor condemned BW for his opinions. I'm glad he's willing to put in the time to test and help discuss the Paladin's class. However, when the revamp initially went live, the posts were all so negative they weren't even constructive. Not to mention, there were at LEAST 4 threads that essentially said the exact same thing and carried the same "I QUIT, THE SKY IS FALLING" attitude. With that said, BW has backed off that stance and I think the majority of his posts initially were genuine frustration. Also, now that many are testing the changes that are currently on Test, they are still coming to the assumption that the revamp is in it's final stage there, which it isn't. I tested the changes with my Paly last night and all I can say (due to NDA and beta) is that I've been happy thus far. There's still tweaking to be done, but it's definitely going in the right direction. Continue to test. Continue to post your concerns....but please try to be constructive. BW has definitely tried to move in that direction and I commend him for it. The dev's don't want to read whiny posts that have no merit or solutions. __________________

08-10-2005, 08:59 PM	#17
djhbeek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 679	RubenBlades wrote: If everyone had taken the sit and wait mood of as it seems alot of you have then we would have less people testing and giving feedback. I think there's a difference between feedback and freaking out. Some of what I read every day is freaking out (and I'm not specifically talking about BW here). Most of the people i see backing black are the lower level and solo/duo paladins and the ones discrediting and critizing seem to post alot about MTing and group/raid. This is neither here nor there. I see alot of side-taking as far as the solo/duo vs raiding guild opinions. This is just prejudice or jealously in most cases. And believe me, if you post on the forums enough with a raiding guild in your sig, you realize how stereotypically you get treated (for the most part). I really don't care what lower level pallies say about the low end game, 'cause frankly, alot has changed since I was there, they know more than I do about that subject. Most of the criticism by raiding pallies I see occurs when people who just started raiding make statements that just don't hold up. You would rather those of us that have the experience don't correct these? Maybe instead of bashing someone you should be stating how you see things from that standpoint, because no matter what two different play styles are not going to see this as having the same effect. You know ... if saying that starting alot of threads and I'd like to see less of it is bashing, well then yah I'm guilty, and no I'm not sorry. Whether BW agreed to the sentiment or not, he, too his credit, addressed the issue as far as I understand, so I really don't see the point in continueing that particular discusssion. If someone post something in error then post what you see as correct, as was done with the ring buffs and leave it at that. Attacking and discrediting anyone you dont agree with only reflects on you. Attacking ... discrediting you don't agree with ... hmm ... /em introduces pot to kettle. A certain amount of disagreement is healthy, and I'm not really a big fan of sitting around blowing sunshine up ... . When the signal/noise ratio gets too low though, something has to be said (my opinion). __________________ Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?

08-10-2005, 09:20 PM	#18
Ruben Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Maryville, Tennessee Posts: 105	djhbeek wrote: RubenBlades wrote: If everyone had taken the sit and wait mood of as it seems alot of you have then we would have less people testing and giving feedback. I think there's a difference between feedback and freaking out. Some of what I read every day is freaking out (and I'm not specifically talking about BW here). Most of the people i see backing black are the lower level and solo/duo paladins and the ones discrediting and critizing seem to post alot about MTing and group/raid. This is neither here nor there. I see alot of side-taking as far as the solo/duo vs raiding guild opinions. This is just prejudice or jealously in most cases. And believe me, if you post on the forums enough with a raiding guild in your sig, you realize how stereotypically you get treated (for the most part). I really don't care what lower level pallies say about the low end game, 'cause frankly, alot has changed since I was there, they know more than I do about that subject. Most of the criticism by raiding pallies I see occurs when people who just started raiding make statements that just don't hold up. You would rather those of us that have the experience don't correct these? Maybe instead of bashing someone you should be stating how you see things from that standpoint, because no matter what two different play styles are not going to see this as having the same effect. You know ... if saying that starting alot of threads and I'd like to see less of it is bashing, well then yah I'm guilty, and no I'm not sorry. Whether BW agreed to the sentiment or not, he, too his credit, addressed the issue as far as I understand, so I really don't see the point in continueing that particular discusssion. If someone post something in error then post what you see as correct, as was done with the ring buffs and leave it at that. Attacking and discrediting anyone you dont agree with only reflects on you. Attacking ... discrediting you don't agree with ... hmm ... /em introduces pot to kettle. A certain amount of disagreement is healthy, and I'm not really a big fan of sitting around blowing sunshine up ... . When the signal/noise ratio gets too low though, something has to be said (my opinion). I actually wasnt pointing at any one person in particular or this thread in particular but at the whole mood here lately. discrediting and pointing out errors are two different things, some of the post i seen lately have no bearing on subject at hand except to blow off one person or the other as not credible. In the end SoE is to blame for the intial reactions since they put something this negative on to test after having worked 7+ months on it. Most people arent in beta, so all that time goes by and this is what you get (yes we all noted that it was still in process), most are going to still freak a bit. All I am trying to get across is for the bashing to stop, black and others have admitted they got a bit emotional so lets leave it be and start talking about the tweaks and how they effect all over us. Some will bring info on solo, some on grouping and some on raids so everyone can see how it impacts their style. __________________ Ruben - 73 Froglock Monk Rudie Bagle - 73 Gnome Warden 71 Iceheart Half-Elf Swashbuckler BlackBurrow Server CoLeader and CoFounder - Order Of Honor

08-10-2005, 09:39 PM	#19
djhbeek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 679	THAT i agree with :smileyhappy: __________________ Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?

08-10-2005, 09:57 PM	#20
Gornd Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 93	Lets say I'd never hire BW as a tester for my company. Not only does he pick and choose the extremes to bring forward but he does so with little validifying evidence. It's pretty obvious that everything is so dependant on the whole system that analyzing one specific part to a before/after scenario just won't cut it. Couple this with the fact that his test enviroment is completely one sided and not diversified. Not to mention he's been on test for 40 levels and just today found out that there was a test forum begs me to ask questions. If you really want to do the paladin community a favor then please go out and test out the system with logs, parses, etc. Solo the right mobs, post the time it takes for you to use up all your power, get in a variety of groups and find out how mobs dps is differeniated between past and present, etc. Taking the time to test right and make analytical comparisons will weigh in a lot more with the developers then someone who is far too outspoken in far too little testing time. Gorndax Leader of Legacy Unrest 50 paladin/50 armorer __________________ Gorndax Dragondorf Leader of Legacy Unrest

08-10-2005, 10:44 PM	#21
yzyh Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 489	BlackWeb wrote: strixus wrote: Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already. I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers. Don't take it personaly. But many players just can't handle that some other players can think the wonderfull programmor of their wonderfull PC game could have made a bad move. They rather protect the reputation of the game they play then beeing agaisnt a nerf that wasn't necessairy for the Whole class balance. For most nerf their is poeple complaining agaisnt the nerf. And people that belive more in SoE then God. And what this guy is talking about ? You post screenshot and they scream to miss information ????

08-10-2005, 10:54 PM	#22
celdar Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 31	I agree, enough already. I am done posting on this subject after this last post. We don't know what is going live, so it's all speculation based on what's on Test, end even that may change. For all we know, SoE may take weapons away from us altogether and make us dual-wield shields, with "Shield Bash as our only offense. Fron what I have heard so far, EQ2 sounds like it will not be fun after the revamp for folks who primarily like to solo. If that's the case, I'd expect folks to quit, or Splitpaw to suddenly gain in popularity as it may be the only place where soloing gains exp at anywhere near an acceptable rate. When I'm soloing in Lava on green ^^ MoB's and get a group invite, it's easy to accept. If I get a tell asking me to help and I'm deep in Hargraves? Well, maybe the Assassin can tank for yas.

08-10-2005, 11:21 PM	#23
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	yzyh wrote: BlackWeb wrote: strixus wrote: Amen. I'm getting sick of all of the missinformation and rants posted by certian individual(s). Cool it already. I am trying to respond to posts with screenshots and numbers rather than speculation and opinioin. You can form your own opinions from the numbers. Don't take it personaly. But many players just can't handle that some other players can think the wonderfull programmor of their wonderfull PC game could have made a bad move. They rather protect the reputation of the game they play then beeing agaisnt a nerf that wasn't necessairy for the Whole class balance. For most nerf their is poeple complaining agaisnt the nerf. And people that belive more in SoE then God. And what this guy is talking about ? You post screenshot and they scream to miss information ???? If you're going to argue that "faith" is the wrong approach, then you may wish to avoid putting too much "faith" into another player. Question everyone. Question the developers. Question other players. Question God, if you wish. Ask questions. The moment you just start taking conjecture at face value is the moment you've placed more importance on your faith than on facts. Remember, just because you see a fact doesn't mean anything without pretext or context. Question everything. Ask questions. Take nothing - NOTHING - on faith alone. __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

08-10-2005, 11:46 PM	#24
Vampy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 48	I am comfortable taking a few things on faith, then again I AM a Paladin and this IS the Paladin forum. __________________ Nycrow Vonharauchi-Barbarian-Bruiser-Craftsman-Oggok Server Nyloch Vonharauchi-Barbarian-Paladin-Armorer-Najena Server

08-11-2005, 04:00 AM	#25
STIMCE Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2	i have read and read these posts for awhile now and have finally decided to reply to one.... Just let the changes take place and then decide for yourself whether you are staying or going(this is in general to one person,not the poster of this thread but one he speaks of also). Please spare us of the rest of the banter.:smileymad: __________________ lvl43

08-11-2005, 05:05 AM	#26
Arathan Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	I don't understand why if it bothers the same 3-4 people (you know who you are) everytime a certain someone (you know who he is) posts something...umm just ignore it and it will fall down the forum list. Every time the fanboi rage rises and someone posts "OMG!!!1!! stop posting about the combat changes" you've just bumped the post back up to the top. Remember: Everytime you make a useless post, Domo-kun devours a very cute kitten. THINK OF THE KITTENS!

08-11-2005, 05:19 AM	#27
djhbeek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 679	this is a dead issue ... it has been discussed to death ... __________________ Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?

08-11-2005, 07:52 AM	#28
xIC Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 75	/agree I'm a bit tired of all the threats to quit in the paladin forum. For all i care, more masters for me then. Also tired of the knee jerk reactions to everything. Im guilty of it too and will take a step back as well. Demonslayor

08-11-2005, 06:19 PM	#29
BlackW Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 496	I have just spent the past hour carefully reading the Forum Rules of Conduct by Moorgard: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=rules&message.id=1 and Faarwolf's thoughts concerning forum conduct http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=rules&message.id=14 I think if we follow these rules, it will have a postitive effect on the Paladin forum and the EQ2 community. I for one intend to do so :smileywink: __________________ Blackweb, Human Paladin - Lucan Dlere Roleplay Server Order of Marr Crusader/Paladin Guide - In Progress

08-14-2005, 12:38 PM	#30
Nurta Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Living in York, PA Posts: 185	Holy .... So I see I missed allot while I was out. I'm guessing I should disregard most of the posts on the front page and just read the ones from the level 50 paladins? It looks like someone went on a crusade or should I say tirade? From what I can tell, we keep our rez, we lose DPS, we get a group heal. Is there more or less? I need cliff notes for the paladin forums!