Bleedthru heals issues

I get the need for bleed thru. I agree something needs to be done. I know the dev's are playing with it and tweaking it trying to make so it we aren't warding everything. This is good and needs to be done. But i'm not sure the bleed thru is providing the intended effect.

I recall the old days where you had a healer that focused on keeping the tank alive and then support healers that focused on curing and healing the group from aoe damage. So perhaps it is worth focusing the bleed thru on the aoes so the group takes damage that a secondary healer can mop up. Another option could be to try making the mobs cast a groupwide bleed thru determent that needs to be cured, then have the mobs hit you with aoes. So if the secondary healer does not cure, the group takes damage that is not wardable up to like 75 percent of their health every tic or so. But you would want only one mob in an encounter casting that or have them all cast it but not allow it to stack.

With something like that, the idea is the warder or templar is absorbing/healing the huge direct damage on the tank and the secondary healer is curing and healing the group. Again the key is the damage does not one shot the group but will kill the group if not cured and healed in a timely manor.

I am all for making the healers work and giving them stuff to do and making all healers desirable. I get that you all know this and are working on it.

It really is not easy when you have 3 distinct type of healers, wards/reactives/Hots. This is the way it has always been all healers are not equal and never have been and really never should be.

Druids were never designed to be main healers. Maybe in some instances they can but honestly they are support healers, always have ben always should be. They cure and buff and return the group to green with large fast grp heals. Really druids are fine as they are maybe beef up there buffs some and increase there DPS.

Clerics need something in my opinion, they should be capable of fulfilling the main healer role. Perhaps they are ok, if they maintain a large reactive on the tank to prevent death and follow that with a quick large single target heal. What gets them is the mobs multi attacking in quick succession. If they chew thru all the reactive triggers the tank dies.

shaman are perhaps to powerful with all the stacking wards and group wards. Instead of all the ward bleed thru maybe remove the single target stacking of wards and scale back or even remove the group wards. This way they can go back to keeping the tank alive but have problems solo healing. Which I believe is your goal.

Just some ideas and thoughts.

back in the days u needed few group heals.

mostly group heals were if someone grabbed aggro, a mistake, an add, or to heal AoEs. single target heals were more efficient up to 3 hit players. group heals were costly and not efficient heal wise.

AoEs also were not pulse.

now the group permanently takes damage in named fights. so much that group heals are more used than single target ones. also with potency group heals are large enough and now only the mana drain matters - not the actual spell cost.

in most mmos I've played, one of the big drawbacks of healers is the mana consumption. Usually healers use a LOT of mana to heal, that's what teach them to play smart and not spam heals. and that's what I'd love to see again.

playing smart !

that's also why for exemple that wards and reactives last way longer than HoTs. because hots are reactionary heals, where as wards and reactives were more casted preventively. now with surge ... u'd like HoTs to last longer (they shortened them through AAs) to keep healing through CC.


also shamans were not bad solo healers. or had no issue solo healing. They had issues putting a group back to full life if they didn't play smart --> preward. A shaman wasn't supposed to heal, heals were only backups, but the shaman's goal was to almost never use them.
wardens on the other hand have tools to heal tanks. So when u say druids were never designed to be main healers isn't true. Furies were solo healing mage groups and warden have tons of heals to be main heal. it's just that HoTs always heal last.
and warden issue is they were the defensive druids but if u only wanted 2 healers, shaman + templar was always the way to go --> more defenses overall. It's not coz druids couldn't, but just coz other classes were better suited.


the biggest issue with BT changes is how it changes the shaman playstyle. mystics stacked wards. They have few heals coz they were designed to not need them. And now ... those changes force a class who is bad at pure heals to keep healing on top of warding. wards were slow to cast for a reason, coz it's never an emergency type of heal ... and now shaman's main way of healing will take a serious hit.

if i remember correctly a shaman was prewarding, tank pulled and shaman was first debuffing. knowing he won't need to heal straight at pull. and then damage/refresh wards/debuffs/buffs.
now u can't do that, and shamans have few HoTs most of their heals are plain straight forward heals, useless to preheal like cleric or druid ... which makes them even less of a debuffer/buffer coz they'll have to be more carefull with spaming heals just in case.

the fun part with dps is the mini opener games to get to full damage ASAP and then keep the pace.

the fun with tank is to micromanage mobs, while trying to dps and rotate temps at right time

supports were more about buffing at right time, mana management and back in days CC (some micromanagement too)

the fun with heal (since no opener, no real damage rotation, no heal rotation) is to switch between off and heals. I like when I don't need to heal all the time, check health, dps, debuff, spike damage -> heal/AoE. also knowing fights and prepare what you're gonna do. so making us spam heals just in case doesn't make the job fun

[Mathafern]

All of the healers had a role back when (good old days?) the largest mob hit was smaller than the health of the tank, and the largest ward/reactive was also much smaller, so you couldn't just ward everything with one group ward. That's maybe oversimplified, but with the current mob hitting for more than the tank's health (even at 160 mil plus in group) reactives can't be enough, and straight heals certainly don't do it. Plus the problem with reactives vanishing to small hits. I see how bleedthrough is supposed to fit in here but I'm not sure what the intent of the current implementation is with regard to individual classes.

My "good old days" vision of healers was chain/plate in tank groups, leather in caster groups, any healer in scout groups and any healer managing heroics- with the occasional stacking of all three healers for the MT group in really tough fights. This is where it would be nice to know what the current vision is for the heal structure- so we can comment on ways in which that vision is or isn't being met- and maybe come up with an approach that really works for all three types of healers.

[knine]

4 types :0 with channelers. With stoneskins I guess it won’t matter much and they will still be somewhat solid.