Diety Changes - Potential disaster if it goes live

Dolgrin · 11-13-2017, 10:28 AM

First of all this is intended as constructive critic.

As I understand, now thithe points are only for diety-spells.

One quest fills the max thithe up. Many additonal points are lost.
You can have only 3 active diety-spells.
One spell costs 4 points.
Starting with 0 points after first quest full. You can train only 2 spells, so 2 points left.
Next quest you will loose even more thithe, because only 8 are counting to max.

Potency, CB, Stamina changes.
Currently i don't know, how to raise them now.

Possible rumors on solutions i heard:
1) Quest Reward. -> Very bad, because the numbers of quests are limited.
2) Random loot drop. -> Very very bad. The ppl with the WI-Flag (http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Wi_Flag, and yes, it exists for RNG-Loot in EQ2) are doomed. Some can raise quickly others are left behind.

More over, i don't see way how quest or loot drop should work.
Panda like i get an item says raise Potency to 51. Now what happens, if i get 3 of these items?

The other way are tokens or something else you have to stack up and combine. But this is same as before, the only change you collect items instead of points.

So here is my solution, change it back as it is live, raise pool and cut down thithe gain by an factor of 10 or 100.

What will happen if it goes live in current state:
First, most ppl starting a flame war because they don't read beta forums.
Second, this will be the second negative impact on judging about this good expansion. The first will be the missing Tradeskill-Line and about excessive harvesting.

There is time to rethink and change.
Thanks in advance.

11-13-2017, 11:36 AM

tithe is getting changed and its not a bad thing. It just wont be the be all and end all of your worries anymore. I wouldnt stress about it

Sure, you can use a few diety abilities every now and again, but they are nerfing the best one (judication), so its not a big deal if they max out at 10 now, you arent losing anything of real value any more.

A cap of 4 diety abilities doesnt make sense to me though. Each one capping at 3 is fine, but having a global max of 4 feels strange (though I understand that is how it has always worked).

Mermut · 11-13-2017, 05:39 PM

I do wish the devs would tell us how (or if) we'll be able to gain further cb/pot/sta tithe boosts.
Aside from that, the changes to tithe do pretty much make the points something we can ignore. None of the abilities make much of a difference, so 'losing' them because we tithe points in chunks that make it impossible not to waste some doesn't really matter.. since we're not losing anything of value.

11-13-2017, 06:14 PM

Having a limit of three or four deity abilities renders them nearly useless even if they were useful. I rarely use them when I only have three, because they might be more useful later in the fight. I'd like to be able to have stacks of ten - then they might be worth using.

Shmogre · 11-13-2017, 07:53 PM

They are already in game...here is one that dropped in Heroic zones (ignore the text bug in them, it's been reported):
[IMG]

(I'm hoping/assuming there will be non-heroic drops as well and possibly other ways to get them, but only time will tell with that.)

Mermut · 11-13-2017, 07:56 PM

Which part is the bug? The boost to 30 or the boost by 1?

Shmogre · 11-13-2017, 07:57 PM

The bug is each item having the descriptive text "Increase Divine Potency to level 30!". That seems to be a copy/paste error, it was also on the Ascension level baubles being granted.

Mermut · 11-13-2017, 07:58 PM

So each bauble only raises it by 1... Good to know. Thanks Smile

11-13-2017, 09:11 PM

Looks like a typo as well. "Diving potency" instead of "Divine potency" lol.

Mermut · 11-13-2017, 09:14 PM

Woo hoo! Divine Dives! Tongue

Shmogre · 11-13-2017, 09:25 PM

Bwah ha ha, my brain auto-corrected that, didn't even see it. Nice catch! BigGrin

knine · 11-14-2017, 04:18 AM

This was put into play to have something to spend XP towards. They need to remove the limit on abilities able to be gained then, as XP will just be wasted once again, with the exception of the small amount that will go into the now static sta/cb/pot.

Shmogre · 11-14-2017, 08:31 AM

Very welcome, Mermut. Here's hoping there are many ways to earn these...

Dolgrin · 11-14-2017, 05:40 PM

Thanks for posting the information Shmorge.

So the worst dreams come true.

RNG-Loot. Now we have to find out if the drop is common, rare or ultra rare.

I fear they are rare to ultra rare like the ascention drops.

If the baubble drops, you have 1:6 (16,6%) chance to get it.
And then a further chance of 1:3 (33,3%) you get the item you need.

So, if the baubble drops, you have a 5% chance you get the item you need.
Taking in account that you need 10 to 20 runs to see a baubble, only 50 to 100 runs to raise the stat you are in need.

Welcome to the new grind!

Pros:
The drop is alt-friendly, because of the heirloom-tag.
This implementation makes it easy to add the item to the marketplace.

Mermut · 11-14-2017, 05:45 PM

The random part is very disappointing Frown

Fyreflyte · 11-14-2017, 09:07 PM

Just to clarify, the numbers and system that Dolgrin posted are entirely made-up.
You're welcome to continue speculating on how this will all work, I just don't want anyone to be mislead simply because someone posted fabricated numbers.

Mermut · 11-14-2017, 10:16 PM

My comments weren't directed toward the perceived rarity, but towards the inability to choose between cb/pot/sta

Dolgrin · 11-14-2017, 10:30 PM

Soory for being fuzzy in my math.

0. Condition: Baubble drops only in Heroic.
1. Condition: Group has set need before greed.
2. Condition: Every one is needing, every time.
3. Condition: Pot, Stam, CB is dropping at an ratio of 1:1:1
4. Condition: I want to raise Pot.

Simple Stochastic says 5% chance to get Pot (as discribed above).
Changing Condition 4, to doesn't matter what drops the chance is 16.6%.
This is set in stone.

Of course you can have luck and win baubble 2 times in a row and get 2 Pot in a row.
But there is also a chance, that your first win is on the 7th or 8th roll.

Changing 3. Condition Pot, Stam, CB to ratio 1:5:10, means Pot is ultra rare, Stam is rare and CB is common.
(This is only an example and i don't know the real values!!!)
So chance to get a CB is much more higher than a Pot. But make it simple for the next part to take original
condition 1:1:1.

Make it easy:
Every Mob/Named drops a baubble.
On 5%, you need 20 mobs to get for a granted drop for a specific baubble. Please take in account, RNG can rise or lower this number.
Of cource if it didn't matter what baubble drops, every 6-7 mobs you get a baubble.

With simple math, you can calculate by yourself, if not every Mob/Named drops a baubble.

To be clear: My calculation is for Heroic only drops.

At current state, we don't know if the baubbles are dropping on mission rewards, Solo, Duo, Heroic, Raid
or only Heroic / Raid. All this are changing number of course.

Guess Mr. Fyreflyte you can't say "entirely made-up" anymore.

Fyreflyte · 11-14-2017, 10:39 PM

Currently these are set as rewards on daily and weekly mission crates, so you've begun the calculation under an incorrect premise. What's going to control the rarity in this case is the drop rate we set, which can be adjusted. We've also discussed the possibility of using them as quest rewards (similar to the way potency was advanced in Days of Summer). I can't say what the final implementation will be just yet, but I encourage you to continue testing and give us feedback based on actual play experience.

Mermut · 11-14-2017, 11:28 PM

Heroic missions? Duo missions? Solo mission?
It also sounds like they'll be 'in the table', so one possibility among many... and of course it's still a random 1 of 3 if you're lucky enough to get the tithe bauble?

knine · 11-14-2017, 11:29 PM

Quest rewards would be great and a guaranteed drop off the mission reward would be great. Complete RNG is Not. We’ve seen how well that worked with ethereals when some people were rocking all ethereals and some hadn’t/didn’t get until you put coins in. While on the RnG thing, leather armor is still dropping at a much higher rate than anything else. So I really hope you all aren’t going with the RNG option. Toons with that awesome RNG will once again getting ahead strictly off luck. If I’m willing to run the zones everyday, especially if this is the only way to get them, then it would be nice to be able to have these guaranteed, not based off luck.

Mermut · 11-14-2017, 11:37 PM

Ironically, the only leather armor I've seen drop with my warden is the brawler only block stuff.. I think the RNG speaks with Murphy frequently Wink

Dolgrin · 11-14-2017, 11:59 PM

@Fyreflyte : Thanks for clarification.

Rarity is the keypoint of success or epic fail for the new system.
Too common and a new inflation, too rare and complainments.

11-15-2017, 11:58 PM

Just to clarify.. I hope the crate itself is not tradable?

11-13-2017, 06:14 PM	#4
Prissetta Active Member Posts: n/a	Leedsen said: ↑ “tithe is getting changed and its not a bad thing. It just wont be the be all and end all of your worries anymore. I wouldnt stress about it Sure, you can use a few diety abilities every now and again, but they are nerfing the best one (judication), so its not a big deal if they max out at 10 now, you arent losing anything of real value any more. A cap of 4 diety abilities doesnt make sense to me though. Each one capping at 3 is fine, but having a global max of 4 feels strange (though I understand that is how it has always worked).” Having a limit of three or four deity abilities renders them nearly useless even if they were useful. I rarely use them when I only have three, because they might be more useful later in the fight. I'd like to be able to have stacks of ten - then they might be worth using.

11-13-2017, 07:53 PM	#5
Shmogre Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Mermut said: ↑ “I do wish the devs would tell us how (or if) we'll be able to gain further cb/pot/sta tithe boosts.” They are already in game...here is one that dropped in Heroic zones (ignore the text bug in them, it's been reported): (I'm hoping/assuming there will be non-heroic drops as well and possibly other ways to get them, but only time will tell with that.)

11-13-2017, 07:56 PM	#6
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Shmogre said: ↑ “They are already in game...here is one that dropped in Heroic zones (ignore the text bug in them, it's been reported): (I'm hoping/assuming there will be non-heroic drops as well and possibly other ways to get them, but only time will tell with that.)” Which part is the bug? The boost to 30 or the boost by 1?

11-13-2017, 07:57 PM	#7
Shmogre Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Mermut said: ↑ “Which part is the bug? The boost to 30 or the boost by 1?” The bug is each item having the descriptive text "Increase Divine Potency to level 30!". That seems to be a copy/paste error, it was also on the Ascension level baubles being granted.

11-13-2017, 07:58 PM	#8
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Shmogre said: ↑ “The bug is each item having the descriptive text "Increase Divine Potency to level 30!". That seems to be a copy/paste error, it was also on the Ascension level baubles being granted.” So each bauble only raises it by 1... Good to know. Thanks

11-13-2017, 10:28 AM	#1
Dolgrin New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	First of all this is intended as constructive critic. As I understand, now thithe points are only for diety-spells. One quest fills the max thithe up. Many additonal points are lost. You can have only 3 active diety-spells. One spell costs 4 points. Starting with 0 points after first quest full. You can train only 2 spells, so 2 points left. Next quest you will loose even more thithe, because only 8 are counting to max. Potency, CB, Stamina changes. Currently i don't know, how to raise them now. Possible rumors on solutions i heard: 1) Quest Reward. -> Very bad, because the numbers of quests are limited. 2) Random loot drop. -> Very very bad. The ppl with the WI-Flag (http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Wi_Flag, and yes, it exists for RNG-Loot in EQ2) are doomed. Some can raise quickly others are left behind. More over, i don't see way how quest or loot drop should work. Panda like i get an item says raise Potency to 51. Now what happens, if i get 3 of these items? The other way are tokens or something else you have to stack up and combine. But this is same as before, the only change you collect items instead of points. So here is my solution, change it back as it is live, raise pool and cut down thithe gain by an factor of 10 or 100. What will happen if it goes live in current state: First, most ppl starting a flame war because they don't read beta forums. Second, this will be the second negative impact on judging about this good expansion. The first will be the missing Tradeskill-Line and about excessive harvesting. There is time to rethink and change. Thanks in advance.

11-13-2017, 11:36 AM	#2
Leedsen Member Posts: n/a	tithe is getting changed and its not a bad thing. It just wont be the be all and end all of your worries anymore. I wouldnt stress about it Sure, you can use a few diety abilities every now and again, but they are nerfing the best one (judication), so its not a big deal if they max out at 10 now, you arent losing anything of real value any more. A cap of 4 diety abilities doesnt make sense to me though. Each one capping at 3 is fine, but having a global max of 4 feels strange (though I understand that is how it has always worked).

11-13-2017, 05:39 PM	#3
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I do wish the devs would tell us how (or if) we'll be able to gain further cb/pot/sta tithe boosts. Aside from that, the changes to tithe do pretty much make the points something we can ignore. None of the abilities make much of a difference, so 'losing' them because we tithe points in chunks that make it impossible not to waste some doesn't really matter.. since we're not losing anything of value.

11-13-2017, 09:11 PM	#9
Wgrace Member Posts: n/a	Mermut said: ↑ “Which part is the bug? The boost to 30 or the boost by 1?” Looks like a typo as well. "Diving potency" instead of "Divine potency" lol.

11-13-2017, 09:14 PM	#10
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Wgrace said: ↑ “Looks like a typo as well. "Diving potency" instead of "Divine potency" lol.” Woo hoo! Divine Dives!

11-13-2017, 09:25 PM	#11
Shmogre Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Wgrace said: ↑ “Looks like a typo as well. "Diving potency" instead of "Divine potency" lol.” Bwah ha ha, my brain auto-corrected that, didn't even see it. Nice catch!

11-14-2017, 04:18 AM	#12
knine Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Leedsen said: ↑ “tithe is getting changed and its not a bad thing. It just wont be the be all and end all of your worries anymore. I wouldnt stress about it Sure, you can use a few diety abilities every now and again, but they are nerfing the best one (judication), so its not a big deal if they max out at 10 now, you arent losing anything of real value any more. A cap of 4 diety abilities doesnt make sense to me though. Each one capping at 3 is fine, but having a global max of 4 feels strange (though I understand that is how it has always worked).” This was put into play to have something to spend XP towards. They need to remove the limit on abilities able to be gained then, as XP will just be wasted once again, with the exception of the small amount that will go into the now static sta/cb/pot.

11-14-2017, 08:31 AM	#13
Shmogre Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Very welcome, Mermut. Here's hoping there are many ways to earn these...

11-14-2017, 05:40 PM	#14
Dolgrin New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Thanks for posting the information Shmorge. So the worst dreams come true. RNG-Loot. Now we have to find out if the drop is common, rare or ultra rare. I fear they are rare to ultra rare like the ascention drops. If the baubble drops, you have 1:6 (16,6%) chance to get it. And then a further chance of 1:3 (33,3%) you get the item you need. So, if the baubble drops, you have a 5% chance you get the item you need. Taking in account that you need 10 to 20 runs to see a baubble, only 50 to 100 runs to raise the stat you are in need. Welcome to the new grind! Pros: The drop is alt-friendly, because of the heirloom-tag. This implementation makes it easy to add the item to the marketplace.

11-14-2017, 05:45 PM	#15
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Dolgrin said: ↑ “Thanks for posting the information Shmorge. So the worst dreams come true. RNG-Loot. Now we have to find out if the drop is common, rare or ultra rare. I fear they are rare to ultra rare like the ascention drops. If the baubble drops, you have 1:6 (16,6%) chance to get it. And then a further chance of 1:3 (33,3%) you get the item you need. So, if the baubble drops, you have a 5% chance you get the item you need. Taking in account that you need 10 to 20 runs to see a baubble, only 50 to 100 runs to raise the stat you are in need. Welcome to the new grind! Pros: The drop is alt-friendly, because of the heirloom-tag. This implementation makes it easy to add the item to the marketplace.” The random part is very disappointing

11-14-2017, 09:07 PM	#16
Fyreflyte Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Just to clarify, the numbers and system that Dolgrin posted are entirely made-up. You're welcome to continue speculating on how this will all work, I just don't want anyone to be mislead simply because someone posted fabricated numbers.

11-14-2017, 10:16 PM	#17
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Fyreflyte said: ↑ “Just to clarify, the numbers and system that Dolgrin posted are entirely made-up. You're welcome to continue speculating on how this will all work, I just don't want anyone to be mislead simply because someone posted fabricated numbers.” My comments weren't directed toward the perceived rarity, but towards the inability to choose between cb/pot/sta

11-14-2017, 10:30 PM	#18
Dolgrin New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	“Just to clarify, the numbers and system that Dolgrin posted are entirely made-up.” Soory for being fuzzy in my math. 0. Condition: Baubble drops only in Heroic. 1. Condition: Group has set need before greed. 2. Condition: Every one is needing, every time. 3. Condition: Pot, Stam, CB is dropping at an ratio of 1:1:1 4. Condition: I want to raise Pot. Simple Stochastic says 5% chance to get Pot (as discribed above). Changing Condition 4, to doesn't matter what drops the chance is 16.6%. This is set in stone. Of course you can have luck and win baubble 2 times in a row and get 2 Pot in a row. But there is also a chance, that your first win is on the 7th or 8th roll. Changing 3. Condition Pot, Stam, CB to ratio 1:5:10, means Pot is ultra rare, Stam is rare and CB is common. (This is only an example and i don't know the real values!!!) So chance to get a CB is much more higher than a Pot. But make it simple for the next part to take original condition 1:1:1. Make it easy: Every Mob/Named drops a baubble. On 5%, you need 20 mobs to get for a granted drop for a specific baubble. Please take in account, RNG can rise or lower this number. Of cource if it didn't matter what baubble drops, every 6-7 mobs you get a baubble. With simple math, you can calculate by yourself, if not every Mob/Named drops a baubble. To be clear: My calculation is for Heroic only drops. At current state, we don't know if the baubbles are dropping on mission rewards, Solo, Duo, Heroic, Raid or only Heroic / Raid. All this are changing number of course. Guess Mr. Fyreflyte you can't say "entirely made-up" anymore.

11-14-2017, 10:39 PM	#19
Fyreflyte Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Dolgrin said: ↑ “Soory for being fuzzy in my math. 0. Condition: Baubble drops only in Heroic. 1. Condition: Group has set need before greed. 2. Condition: Every one is needing, every time.” Currently these are set as rewards on daily and weekly mission crates, so you've begun the calculation under an incorrect premise. What's going to control the rarity in this case is the drop rate we set, which can be adjusted. We've also discussed the possibility of using them as quest rewards (similar to the way potency was advanced in Days of Summer). I can't say what the final implementation will be just yet, but I encourage you to continue testing and give us feedback based on actual play experience.

11-14-2017, 11:28 PM	#20
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Fyreflyte said: ↑ “Currently these are set as rewards on daily and weekly mission crates, so you've begun the calculation under an incorrect premise. What's going to control the rarity in this case is the drop rate we set, which can be adjusted. We've also discussed the possibility of using them as quest rewards (similar to the way potency was advanced in Days of Summer). I can't say what the final implementation will be just yet, but I encourage you to continue testing and give us feedback based on actual play experience.” Heroic missions? Duo missions? Solo mission? It also sounds like they'll be 'in the table', so one possibility among many... and of course it's still a random 1 of 3 if you're lucky enough to get the tithe bauble?

11-14-2017, 11:29 PM	#21
knine Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Fyreflyte said: ↑ “Currently these are set as rewards on daily and weekly mission crates, so you've begun the calculation under an incorrect premise. What's going to control the rarity in this case is the drop rate we set, which can be adjusted. We've also discussed the possibility of using them as quest rewards (similar to the way potency was advanced in Days of Summer). I can't say what the final implementation will be just yet, but I encourage you to continue testing and give us feedback based on actual play experience.” Quest rewards would be great and a guaranteed drop off the mission reward would be great. Complete RNG is Not. We’ve seen how well that worked with ethereals when some people were rocking all ethereals and some hadn’t/didn’t get until you put coins in. While on the RnG thing, leather armor is still dropping at a much higher rate than anything else. So I really hope you all aren’t going with the RNG option. Toons with that awesome RNG will once again getting ahead strictly off luck. If I’m willing to run the zones everyday, especially if this is the only way to get them, then it would be nice to be able to have these guaranteed, not based off luck.

11-14-2017, 11:37 PM	#22
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	knine said: ↑ “Quest rewards would be great and a guaranteed drop off the mission reward would be great. Complete RNG is Not. We’ve seen how well that worked with ethereals when some people were rocking all ethereals and some hadn’t/didn’t get until you put coins in. While on the RnG thing, leather armor is still dropping at a much higher rate than anything else. So I really hope you all aren’t going with the RNG option. Toons with that awesome RNG will once again getting ahead strictly off luck. If I’m willing to run the zones everyday, especially if this is the only way to get them, then it would be nice to be able to have these guaranteed, not based off luck.” Ironically, the only leather armor I've seen drop with my warden is the brawler only block stuff.. I think the RNG speaks with Murphy frequently

11-14-2017, 11:59 PM	#23
Dolgrin New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	@Fyreflyte : Thanks for clarification. Rarity is the keypoint of success or epic fail for the new system. Too common and a new inflation, too rare and complainments.

11-15-2017, 11:58 PM	#24
Aliramar Member Posts: n/a	Just to clarify.. I hope the crate itself is not tradable?