the ethereals drama

Mermut · 11-13-2015, 09:01 PM

I haven't seen any procs on weapons that are near as nice as the etherals.. all I've seen are straight damage procs.. no group buff procs or anything like that.

11-13-2015, 09:37 PM

And weren't Ethereals from ToV still prized, to a degree, even in the AoM expansion up until the new Ethereals started dropping? Have we truly seen all of the gear that drops from Tier 2 Heroics and above? Tier 2 and up would seem, to me at least, to be a good starting point to have items that were replacing the "Best Of" from the previous expansion.

I, personally, don't see any drama here. They were Ethereal and very hard to obtain, so just because we have a new expansion doesn't mean that they have to be replaced in the basic scenarios or even with the small insight that we've seen of the gear that has dropped so far...

Mermut · 11-13-2015, 09:55 PM

Ethereals aren't 'hard' to obtain, they're a matter of luck or expense. I didn't bother because the healer weapon was totally useless to a druid (even leaving aside it was a one-hander) because the reuse on all but 1 of the heals I us that it would reset is already less then it's duration. The proc, however, is godly for defilers and mystics.
The AoM ethereals didn't have procs, let alone game changing procs (for some classes).

11-13-2015, 11:08 PM

Guildmate looted a purple adorn for secondary slot, Ethereal Siphoning. Lvl 100, prestige classification. I'm willing to bet that you will be able to get those procs on current weapons, thus making the ethereals obsolete.

Mermut · 11-13-2015, 11:21 PM

Except that the adorns are relic, which means you can use only one, and the weapons are not. So, in theory, a player could have 3 ethereal procs on their weapons plus a 4th one from a relic adornment.

Neiloch · 11-13-2015, 11:37 PM

They also said outright that the ethereals will remain 'desirable' even during the new xpac.

And it was pointed out AS SOON as the relic tag was revealed that if ethereal level procs end up being on Relic items the Ethereal will have a distinct advantage in being able to use multiples of them, not to mention you could wear 3 ethereals + 1 relic.

Damage procs dont scale well instantly making them terrible for any decent DPS class. I suppose they could be 'okay' for classes with poor DPS but if they have poor DPS where a proc would make a different they probably have other class roles to worry about. The entire idea of a well performing proc goes against the 'active v. passive' DPS changes being done to auto attack and class damage abilities. AND we were promised procs would be nearly removed outright to help with server performance.

The ways ethereal type procs outpace straight damage ones are numerous.

Mermut · 11-14-2015, 12:03 AM

Neiloch said: ↑

“They also said outright that the ethereals will remain 'desirable' even during the new xpac.

And it was pointed out AS SOON as the relic tag was revealed that if ethereal level procs end up being on Relic items the Ethereal will have a distinct advantage in being able to use multiples of them, not to mention you could wear 3 ethereals + 1 relic.

Damage procs dont scale well instantly making them terrible for any decent DPS class. I suppose they could be 'okay' for classes with poor DPS but if they have poor DPS where a proc would make a different they probably have other class roles to worry about. The entire idea of a well performing proc goes against the 'active v. passive' DPS changes being done to auto attack and class damage abilities. AND we were promised procs would be nearly removed outright to help with server performance.

The ways ethereal type procs outpace straight damage ones are numerous.”

Most straight dps procs are mostly useless, even of healers.There is invariably something better to get, if you can.

11-14-2015, 12:05 AM

Easy fix to this would be to replace current damaging procs with ethereal procs with longer internal cooldowns. That would give people the same ethereal like effects while keeping the current ethereal weapons desirable.

I feel that the relic tag is being misused entirely, but that is a separate issue.

11-14-2015, 04:47 AM

I am so tired of hearing the crying about ethereals. there's a half dozen threads about it. You didn't get one, sorry, but get over it already. Next you'll be crying cause you cant use poisons and get those nerfed....oh wait, you already did that too

Mermut · 11-14-2015, 04:55 AM

I'm not crying about not getting an ethereal. As I pointed out the weapon proc was totally useless to my warden and since I use a 2-hander, the shield wasn't useful either.
That doesn't mean I can't see potential balance issues with making the runes with the procs relic while the ethereals themselves are not. Simply taking the relic proc off the runes would fix the issue of those with weapons having a huge leg up over those that don't.

11-14-2015, 06:15 AM

even if the runes were not relic, etherals would still be better in many cases because you dont have to lose a rune slot to get it.

already overpowered defilers get +50% stronger by the effect while a warden (who is definitly weaker then a defiler atm) gains nothing from it.
the fighter ranged proc is based on their max hp. that makes the item just scale infinatly. a proc doing 30% to 70% of a classes dps (ignoring the healing part) is imo just stupid.
for scouts the bow gives 100% !!! final ability damage every 30 seconds... and so on...
if you compare thm to any other item effects... you just cant.
as i said, they kill class balancing and are way to strong to be as rare/exclusive as they are.
since nerfing would be a marketing nightmare (ppl payed rlmoney to get them) they will have to find another solution.
making them relatively easy available may be a fix for most but not all cases. hey@druids getting the shaft.

11-14-2015, 08:07 AM

they are overpowered as f*** and there is no compensation in sight.
they are going to get even stronger with the new expansions gear.
they kill class balance and make players who dont have them do/enable considerably less damage/healing.

wtf is the plan going forward with this?
can you nerf something people spent loads of money (some only ingame, some real money!) to get?

imo it would be best if those effects were never introduced but its to late now.

i would really like a dev resonse on that issue...

11-14-2015, 08:51 AM

The ethereals are only slightly better than stuff falling in quests and advanced solo dungeons. We have absolutely no reason to think that rare heroic drops and raid drops won't be much better. Do not be Chicken Little, because the sky is NOT falling.

Laserbeak · 11-14-2015, 09:04 AM

Fact is though... they're game breaking. On beta i got my only taste of ethereals... and with the poison nerfs...i didnt even wear bow.. in favor of the dehate ranged relic..But phelony... mortal blade and assassinate up every chain? full time shadow? 4x the smoke bombs? yeah.. i just dont see how a sin with one can get beat by one without.. ill def be taking phelony relic if I can get.. its too good to say no. But they could just say screw us and not give us anything.. so im happy theres atleast some chance to get these procs..

Errrorr · 11-14-2015, 09:53 AM

One of the easiest solutions is to retrospectively make the ethereal weapons relic, and do a mass unattune so people who had more than one can decide which to keep and sell the others.

It'd still give a minor advantage if you had one, but not as much as if you had 3z

11-14-2015, 09:56 AM

exactly

11-14-2015, 10:10 AM

but we did discuss that 3 month ago and nuthin happened ... same with class feedback

11-15-2015, 04:53 PM

Ethereals should be removed/replaced just like all AOM items 2/2 purple Avatar etc

11-15-2015, 04:56 PM

Everytime I read the hate towards players who received an ethereal it makes me want to punch someone in the face. You didn't get one, some of us did. Get over it already

Jokirr · 11-16-2015, 02:47 AM

They had one of the worst drop rates to even exist in the game buddy, so no many will not get over it because they are trulythat game breaking, I find it almost humorous that you can't see just how busted those effects are. (I ended up getting lucky and getting a few but I also know many who ran heroics like crazy and never got one, so I feel bad their hard work didn't pay off)

The resetting spells/CAs is massively overpowered, people who were lucky enough to get one were basically handed a button that reads: "Double your damage forever".
The one major thing I do have a problem with was Kander said on the forums during ToV when they nerfed The Finisher neck from being an after damage multiplier aka Final Damage, into a potency buff, was that effects such as that scaled to hard and restricted item growth since you would never remove the item unless the new item had the same effect.
Then the bow is released and lord and behold it has Final Damage, the very mechanic we were told wasn't going to come back.
(Yes I know the belts and AoM Hat have it too, but 3% isn't going to cause massive chaos)

Now we have ability resetting effects, which sorry everyone whose in disbelief, they are by far the most powerful effect ever granted to players...ever! This truly is ToV finisher neck all over again, only it not only scales damage up by a large amount, it also shapes class balance since some players will get so used to having all their powerful abilities coming up very often.

Only shining light at the end of this tunnel I see is that most item effects on beta are just placeholders, and the devs might reconsider this issue and put them on the T2 Raid items or the hardest Heroic, basically something we have to work fairly hard to obtain.

TLDR; The resetting ethereals broke the game, now pigeonholed into having them on future items.

11-13-2015, 09:01 PM	#1
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Sigrdrifa said: ↑ “The ethereals are only slightly better than stuff falling in quests and advanced solo dungeons. We have absolutely no reason to think that rare heroic drops and raid drops won't be much better. Do not be Chicken Little, because the sky is NOT falling.” I haven't seen any procs on weapons that are near as nice as the etherals.. all I've seen are straight damage procs.. no group buff procs or anything like that.

11-13-2015, 09:37 PM	#2
Sintropy Member Posts: n/a	Mermut said: ↑ “I haven't seen any procs on weapons that are near as nice as the etherals.. all I've seen are straight damage procs.. no group buff procs or anything like that.” And weren't Ethereals from ToV still prized, to a degree, even in the AoM expansion up until the new Ethereals started dropping? Have we truly seen all of the gear that drops from Tier 2 Heroics and above? Tier 2 and up would seem, to me at least, to be a good starting point to have items that were replacing the "Best Of" from the previous expansion. I, personally, don't see any drama here. They were Ethereal and very hard to obtain, so just because we have a new expansion doesn't mean that they have to be replaced in the basic scenarios or even with the small insight that we've seen of the gear that has dropped so far...

11-13-2015, 09:55 PM	#3
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Sintropy said: ↑ “And weren't Ethereals from ToV still prized, to a degree, even in the AoM expansion up until the new Ethereals started dropping? Have we truly seen all of the gear that drops from Tier 2 Heroics and above? Tier 2 and up would seem, to me at least, to be a good starting point to have items that were replacing the "Best Of" from the previous expansion. I, personally, don't see any drama here. They were Ethereal and very hard to obtain, so just because we have a new expansion doesn't mean that they have to be replaced in the basic scenarios or even with the small insight that we've seen of the gear that has dropped so far...” Ethereals aren't 'hard' to obtain, they're a matter of luck or expense. I didn't bother because the healer weapon was totally useless to a druid (even leaving aside it was a one-hander) because the reuse on all but 1 of the heals I us that it would reset is already less then it's duration. The proc, however, is godly for defilers and mystics. The AoM ethereals didn't have procs, let alone game changing procs (for some classes).

11-13-2015, 11:21 PM	#5
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Trivursar said: ↑ “Guildmate looted a purple adorn for secondary slot, Ethereal Siphoning. Lvl 100, prestige classification. I'm willing to bet that you will be able to get those procs on current weapons, thus making the ethereals obsolete.” Except that the adorns are relic, which means you can use only one, and the weapons are not. So, in theory, a player could have 3 ethereal procs on their weapons plus a 4th one from a relic adornment.

11-13-2015, 11:37 PM	#6
Neiloch Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Trivursar said: ↑ “Guildmate looted a purple adorn for secondary slot, Ethereal Siphoning. Lvl 100, prestige classification. I'm willing to bet that you will be able to get those procs on current weapons, thus making the ethereals obsolete.” They also said outright that the ethereals will remain 'desirable' even during the new xpac. And it was pointed out AS SOON as the relic tag was revealed that if ethereal level procs end up being on Relic items the Ethereal will have a distinct advantage in being able to use multiples of them, not to mention you could wear 3 ethereals + 1 relic. Damage procs dont scale well instantly making them terrible for any decent DPS class. I suppose they could be 'okay' for classes with poor DPS but if they have poor DPS where a proc would make a different they probably have other class roles to worry about. The entire idea of a well performing proc goes against the 'active v. passive' DPS changes being done to auto attack and class damage abilities. AND we were promised procs would be nearly removed outright to help with server performance. The ways ethereal type procs outpace straight damage ones are numerous.

11-13-2015, 11:08 PM	#4
Trivursar Active Member Posts: n/a	Guildmate looted a purple adorn for secondary slot, Ethereal Siphoning. Lvl 100, prestige classification. I'm willing to bet that you will be able to get those procs on current weapons, thus making the ethereals obsolete.

11-14-2015, 12:03 AM	#7
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Neiloch said: ↑ “They also said outright that the ethereals will remain 'desirable' even during the new xpac. And it was pointed out AS SOON as the relic tag was revealed that if ethereal level procs end up being on Relic items the Ethereal will have a distinct advantage in being able to use multiples of them, not to mention you could wear 3 ethereals + 1 relic. Damage procs dont scale well instantly making them terrible for any decent DPS class. I suppose they could be 'okay' for classes with poor DPS but if they have poor DPS where a proc would make a different they probably have other class roles to worry about. The entire idea of a well performing proc goes against the 'active v. passive' DPS changes being done to auto attack and class damage abilities. AND we were promised procs would be nearly removed outright to help with server performance. The ways ethereal type procs outpace straight damage ones are numerous.” Most straight dps procs are mostly useless, even of healers.There is invariably something better to get, if you can.

11-14-2015, 12:05 AM	#8
Therein Member Posts: n/a	Easy fix to this would be to replace current damaging procs with ethereal procs with longer internal cooldowns. That would give people the same ethereal like effects while keeping the current ethereal weapons desirable. I feel that the relic tag is being misused entirely, but that is a separate issue.

11-14-2015, 04:47 AM	#9
kluxor Active Member Posts: n/a	I am so tired of hearing the crying about ethereals. there's a half dozen threads about it. You didn't get one, sorry, but get over it already. Next you'll be crying cause you cant use poisons and get those nerfed....oh wait, you already did that too

11-14-2015, 04:55 AM	#10
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	kluxor said: ↑ “I am so tired of hearing the crying about ethereals. there's a half dozen threads about it. You didn't get one, sorry, but get over it already. Next you'll be crying cause you cant use poisons and get those nerfed....oh wait, you already did that too” I'm not crying about not getting an ethereal. As I pointed out the weapon proc was totally useless to my warden and since I use a 2-hander, the shield wasn't useful either. That doesn't mean I can't see potential balance issues with making the runes with the procs relic while the ethereals themselves are not. Simply taking the relic proc off the runes would fix the issue of those with weapons having a huge leg up over those that don't.

11-14-2015, 06:15 AM	#11
q-ruf Member Posts: n/a	Mermut said: ↑ “I'm not crying about not getting an ethereal. As I pointed out the weapon proc was totally useless to my warden and since I use a 2-hander, the shield wasn't useful either. That doesn't mean I can't see potential balance issues with making the runes with the procs relic while the ethereals themselves are not. Simply taking the relic proc off the runes would fix the issue of those with weapons having a huge leg up over those that don't.” even if the runes were not relic, etherals would still be better in many cases because you dont have to lose a rune slot to get it. already overpowered defilers get +50% stronger by the effect while a warden (who is definitly weaker then a defiler atm) gains nothing from it. the fighter ranged proc is based on their max hp. that makes the item just scale infinatly. a proc doing 30% to 70% of a classes dps (ignoring the healing part) is imo just stupid. for scouts the bow gives 100% !!! final ability damage every 30 seconds... and so on... if you compare thm to any other item effects... you just cant. as i said, they kill class balancing and are way to strong to be as rare/exclusive as they are. since nerfing would be a marketing nightmare (ppl payed rlmoney to get them) they will have to find another solution. making them relatively easy available may be a fix for most but not all cases. hey@druids getting the shaft.

11-14-2015, 08:07 AM	#12
q-ruf Member Posts: n/a	they are overpowered as f*** and there is no compensation in sight. they are going to get even stronger with the new expansions gear. they kill class balance and make players who dont have them do/enable considerably less damage/healing. wtf is the plan going forward with this? can you nerf something people spent loads of money (some only ingame, some real money!) to get? imo it would be best if those effects were never introduced but its to late now. i would really like a dev resonse on that issue...

11-14-2015, 08:51 AM	#13
Sigrdrifa Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	The ethereals are only slightly better than stuff falling in quests and advanced solo dungeons. We have absolutely no reason to think that rare heroic drops and raid drops won't be much better. Do not be Chicken Little, because the sky is NOT falling.

11-14-2015, 09:04 AM	#14
Laserbeak Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Fact is though... they're game breaking. On beta i got my only taste of ethereals... and with the poison nerfs...i didnt even wear bow.. in favor of the dehate ranged relic..But phelony... mortal blade and assassinate up every chain? full time shadow? 4x the smoke bombs? yeah.. i just dont see how a sin with one can get beat by one without.. ill def be taking phelony relic if I can get.. its too good to say no. But they could just say screw us and not give us anything.. so im happy theres atleast some chance to get these procs..

11-14-2015, 09:53 AM	#15
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	One of the easiest solutions is to retrospectively make the ethereal weapons relic, and do a mass unattune so people who had more than one can decide which to keep and sell the others. It'd still give a minor advantage if you had one, but not as much as if you had 3z

11-14-2015, 09:56 AM	#16
Wards Member Posts: n/a	q-ruf said: ↑ “already overpowered defilers get +50% stronger by the effect while a warden (who is definitly weaker then a defiler atm) gains nothing from it.” exactly

11-14-2015, 10:10 AM	#17
Wards Member Posts: n/a	but we did discuss that 3 month ago and nuthin happened ... same with class feedback

11-15-2015, 04:53 PM	#18
sonnycheeba New Member Posts: n/a	q-ruf said: ↑ “they are overpowered as f*** and there is no compensation in sight. they are going to get even stronger with the new expansions gear. they kill class balance and make players who dont have them do/enable considerably less damage/healing. wtf is the plan going forward with this? can you nerf something people spent loads of money (some only ingame, some real money!) to get? imo it would be best if those effects were never introduced but its to late now. i would really like a dev resonse on that issue...” Ethereals should be removed/replaced just like all AOM items 2/2 purple Avatar etc

11-15-2015, 04:56 PM	#19
kluxor Active Member Posts: n/a	Everytime I read the hate towards players who received an ethereal it makes me want to punch someone in the face. You didn't get one, some of us did. Get over it already

11-16-2015, 02:47 AM	#20
Jokirr Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	kluxor said: ↑ “Everytime I read the hate towards players who received an ethereal it makes me want to punch someone in the face. You didn't get one, some of us did. Get over it already” They had one of the worst drop rates to even exist in the game buddy, so no many will not get over it because they are trulythat game breaking, I find it almost humorous that you can't see just how busted those effects are. (I ended up getting lucky and getting a few but I also know many who ran heroics like crazy and never got one, so I feel bad their hard work didn't pay off) The resetting spells/CAs is massively overpowered, people who were lucky enough to get one were basically handed a button that reads: "Double your damage forever". The one major thing I do have a problem with was Kander said on the forums during ToV when they nerfed The Finisher neck from being an after damage multiplier aka Final Damage, into a potency buff, was that effects such as that scaled to hard and restricted item growth since you would never remove the item unless the new item had the same effect. Then the bow is released and lord and behold it has Final Damage, the very mechanic we were told wasn't going to come back. (Yes I know the belts and AoM Hat have it too, but 3% isn't going to cause massive chaos) Now we have ability resetting effects, which sorry everyone whose in disbelief, they are by far the most powerful effect ever granted to players...ever! This truly is ToV finisher neck all over again, only it not only scales damage up by a large amount, it also shapes class balance since some players will get so used to having all their powerful abilities coming up very often. Only shining light at the end of this tunnel I see is that most item effects on beta are just placeholders, and the devs might reconsider this issue and put them on the T2 Raid items or the hardest Heroic, basically something we have to work fairly hard to obtain. TLDR; The resetting ethereals broke the game, now pigeonholed into having them on future items.