Class Relic Cloaks - A Balancing Act

Bloodguts · 11-05-2015, 10:39 PM

Disclaimer: Before i go any further, I've asked internally to Gninja and Caith to please provide the full list of Class Relic Cloaks so we can provide a complete list of feedback from player perspective regarding these. One did not respond and the other one refused to provide any help in the matter while spawning a Cloak for a fellow player when they asked for it. I conclude that either the other class cloaks missing are not yet completed to be released or are not yet in-game in Beta or they are not willing to help with this subject. These cloaks need to be tested properly on characters to verify if they're actually working or not and to verify their DPS/Support potentials with one another. I recommended to add them on the Beta Buffer to verify them, but no response.

Either way, here are the 13 cloaks that have been discovered so far. There are 13 cloaks still missing and will be added to this list later on.

1. Beastlord

[IMG]

This looks like not a great Relic Cloak to pick up. Savage Ruin is not a great ability to begin with, and maybe the second line where it says it deals Increased Damage could make it more worthwhile, but being a class that is dependent on it's Warders for it's dps it would have been a better choice to increase the Warders damage and survivability. Losing a Warder mid-fight is catastrophic for a Beastlord compared to any other classes.

Also, Beastlords have the worst aggro management that I've ever seen. Anything to help on that aspect would be greatly welcomed.

In my opinion, a proc that is directed to the aspect that stands out the most when you talk about a Beastlord would have been a much better choice than a simple raid wide dmg proc.

2.Bruiser
[IMG]

Can't really comment on this one. Not sure exactly how it works until it's tested.

What I can say for sure is Bruisers survivability in raids is sub par and anything to increase this would be beneficial if you want them to be a proper tank.

I'll let others comment on this cloak.

3. Channeler
[IMG]

No comment on this one yet, have to test it to verify it's usefulness.

Doublecast chance is nice for a channeler, but it's missing Flurry as well.

4. Fury
[IMG]

While this looks to be a nice group DPS proc, this will end up being the new Elemental Toxicity that got fixed not long ago for Summoners.

I hope this doesn't provide needless lag with these limitless triggers on Fae Fire.

Will have to test to verify.

5. Illusionist

Picture not Available.
It was shown on the October 1 announcement stream on twitch, but that video has been removed from Twitch and Youtube so can't show the picture.

It changed Prismatic Chaos VII to be a Group Wide buff with increased Triggers.

This is a really amazing change for Illusionist dps, since Prismatic Chaos is one of the better DPS abilities they provide. The same concerns come up with the Group Wide Fae Fire from Fury though; hopefully it won't provide needless lag to raids.

6. Inquisitor
[IMG]

This looks to be a really powerful heal but would have to test to verify. Sadly, this expansion still looks like a Shaman expansion.

Would also like to know how much Potency and what duration will that Potency have when cast on groups.

Also, where's the Flurry? Inquisitors are known for their Auto Attacks, and this has no Flurry whatsoever.

7. Paladin
[IMG]

I don't see any benefits to this cloak. First of all, Crusaders use both Flurry and Doublecast.

Second of all, Lay on Hands is a personal paladin survivability temp, so when the Paladin has to use it on himself, the group doesn't necessarily need it. Lay on Hands also has too long of a Recast for this to actually be worth anything.

There are much better choices of abilities to be included on a Relic Cloak than this. But what paladins need the most is an increase in their own personal survability to compete with the likes of other tanks.

8. Shadowknight
[IMG]

Raid wide Death March? No thanks. We don't need more Ability Casting Speed or Int or Multi Attack.

The only benefit i see to this is the Raid Wide CC immunity and that doesn't happen too often unless you're deliberately planning on adding Raid Encounters that CC a lot.

Shadowknights still need more survivability to compete with Berserkers.

Also, the Doublecast is missing.

9. Swashbuckler
[IMG]

This is an amazing Relic Cloak.

My only concerns is if this affects the Prestige ability Spinning Flurry and if it adds the debuff to all targets affected by Spinning Flurry.

If so, this relic cloak is hands down the best I've seen. Good job on this one.

10. Troubador
[IMG]

Seems like a good cloak, need to test to verify. At least Aria of Magic will work on scout classes that are grouped with the Troubador now.

11. Warden
[IMG]

Seems okay. Sandstorm is just a defensive ability, so having this go raid wide could be beneficial on encounters where we have multiple tanks actively tanking.

How much ability modifier are we getting for the 30s of Sandstorms's duration? Would be good to know.

Also, it's missing Flurry that Wardens use for their Autos.

12. Warlock

[IMG]

Same thing as the Fury, Illusionist and Beastlord, more needless lag for the entire raid with this proc.

While it looks to be a good relic cloak to increase the raid's DPS, it does almost nothing for the Warlock, unlike the Wizard cloak which increases the Wizard's personal dps and does nothing for the raid.

13. Wizard
[IMG]

Just a personal DPS upgrade for Wizards, but an amazing one at that. Would have been nice to get some raid support from Wizards like raid wide Frigid Gift if raid wide procs are going to be used and not cause lag.

Doesn't seem fair that Warlocks get raid wide DPS and nothing for their personal dps, while Wizards get personal dps and nothing for raid wide.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll add the rest of the cloaks once they get discovered or the Developers are nice enough to provide them to us so we can test them and give them more feedback now before Live.

Anunnaki · 11-05-2015, 10:49 PM

I saw the coercer one earlier, but I logged and didn't grab a picture.

If I remember correctly:
Channel increases the groups potency by 25% of their current potency.

Bloodguts · 11-05-2015, 10:55 PM

That looks pretty amazing, honestly, since you can cast it on other groups. It really needs a lower base recast timer on Channel though, since it has such a horrible long recast.

Anunnaki · 11-05-2015, 10:57 PM

I asked this in the itemization thread, but I ask here also.

Question about the class relics. Are there multiple tiers of these? Or are the cloaks that are dropping *the* exclusive class effect?

11-05-2015, 10:57 PM

Was hoping to see the assassin cloak but still no info on that one, hope its not super bad. Some of these are amazingly good while some are downright bad. No mit on the tank cloaks? Flurry and doublecast should just both remain on all the cloaks to avoid issues with hybrid classes and since a lot of scouts ca are classified as spells too.

Bloodguts · 11-05-2015, 11:01 PM

I cannot give you a informed answer on this, but I assume we will see this cloaks in the same manner we saw Malkonis' Cloaks. 1 from Adv Solo, 1 from Heroic with better stats, and 1 from Raid zones with much better stats.

Beyoncia · 11-05-2015, 11:01 PM

The Inquisitor cloak looks realy good. Need to check the "increased healing ofcourse". And why there is no flurry? I'm a mele focused class after all.

Errrorr · 11-05-2015, 11:05 PM

Channel is self group only. Manaflow can be used on other groups.

SDA isn't that useful for a Channeler. They have limited spells. Most of their frequent DPS abilities are Combat Arts.

11-05-2015, 11:11 PM

They really really really need to keep sda and flurry on ALL of the cloaks. There's way too many hybrid classes that can or do benefit from both. Adding only one or the other limits the personalization of said classes, or makes the cloak not even worth using at all

11-05-2015, 11:19 PM

The Warden cloak would have to be removed any time there is a Scout tank component to a fight or it would remove sandstorm from the list of spells a warden could use in the fight.

Bloodguts · 11-05-2015, 11:19 PM

You are correct on the Channel. I confused it with Channeled Focus which can be casted on other group's. Still Channel has a seriously long recast which makes this relic cloak pretty useless as is when compared to the Illusionist one.

On the SDA/Flurry for Channelers, if you spec a Channeler for DPS (which rarely happens) they can dish out a great amount of damage from Poison Bolt and Dissonant Decimation and they use SDA for these spells. So both Flurry and SDA are useful for channelers, just Flurry is used more often because not many Channelers spec for pure DPS.

11-05-2015, 11:26 PM

This.

it is not getting more stats and better gear... it is about getting the same gear as damage is split across two aspects of the class.

at the least you should do 2/3 flurry 2/3 double cast of the base number.

11-05-2015, 11:50 PM

It isn't too difficult to think of applications for an instant-cast, cross-party, groupwide stoneskin with a full heal attached.

11-06-2015, 12:57 AM

I'm surprised to see all these group damage procs being added to items, I say this because both summoners don't even have a group damage proc anymore ever since they changed Elemental Toxicity to a regular aoe spell. Are the summoners the only class in the game with no group damage proc?
This is especially horrible when you have two or three summoners in the same group for heroic or raid. Its just a huge nerf to the whole group. Please give the summoners a group damage proc on their good until cancelled spell hotbar, even if its a weak one, but something, anything is better than a ZERO. And please no BS comments about our horrible weak utility making up for the lack of damage procs, its a joke especially for the conjuror, it couldn't be any worse. Again the utility that summoners have is horrible and it doesn't stack, so again if you have more than one summoner in your group the utility is a joke. Why not allow the group utility from multiple summoners to stack so only one summoners tiny utility isn't all the group gets.

The tiny utility doesn't make up for the fact we have no damage proc, in contrast the sorcerers both have two (the warlock has Miasma and Curse of Darkness and the wizzy has Arcane Tyrant and Frigid gift) Can the summoners please get atleast one?

Tabri · 11-06-2015, 05:18 AM

What are you saying with the warden cloak? Like when a tank and a scout are in same group tanking?

Tabri · 11-06-2015, 05:18 AM

Warden cloak
Do the AA abilities added to sandstorm also work on the entire raid like for example the chance for ae immunity when hit?

Ingerimm · 11-06-2015, 06:19 AM

I can only agree with my class like this.

Ajjantis · 11-06-2015, 10:05 AM

Please give us an update when ya find the brigand one. Thanks in advance!

11-06-2015, 01:55 PM

The warden cloak makes sandstorm hit the entire raid. So if you have some scouts tanking part of the encounter they are going to get hit with Negative Threat and possibly lose agroo because of sandstorm.

Tabri · 11-06-2015, 02:35 PM

True but its probably minimal if the scouts have all the hate increase buffs from group added to them guess it depends on circumstance and group makeup.

Genghes · 11-06-2015, 02:39 PM

I would love to get my hands on the bruiser cloak and test that effect to see if it's a double cast, adds more hits, or just increases the likelihood that it will hit instead of miss

Lemilla · 11-06-2015, 02:41 PM

Weapon and casting skills are a lot lower than the other Relic cloaks. Channelers (and Mystics, Wardens, Inquisitors) should get Flurry instead of Doublecast.

As for the effect:

Reducing the HP cost of the slot-3 Ward from 15% to 10% doesn't help much. Combined with the huge Dissonance cost (4800 if also spending AA on it), it's still too expensive to be worth casting.
The reduced Dissonance cost can be useless or OP, depending on what it really does.
If it only affects Siphoned Protection, it's useless. That spell will still be too expensive to cast.
If it affects all conduits, this is seriously OP. For many conduits, this halves the casting cost. This nearly doubles the healing potential of the Construct, while making any dissonance management while dpsing irrelevant, negating one of the important aspects of the entire class.

Daalilama · 11-06-2015, 02:58 PM

I would love to see what they gave the Templar's...among the other ones not listed...this close to release putting mediocre abilities on the new cloaks even with raid wide benefit is a no no.

11-06-2015, 04:19 PM

Question:

Where are these cloaks dropping?

People have been repeating on the beta forums, and in game that they 'heard' that they drop in AS zones. Is this correct, and not just a rumor? Can anyone confirm these items are dropping in AS zones?

Alphonsus · 11-06-2015, 04:31 PM

Since you can only equip 1 relic item at a time, I doubt it will be the cloak for many classes.

Mermut · 11-06-2015, 04:50 PM

Very true... even if they don't find another relic. For many of the classes the cloak abilities seem.... unimpressive.

Mermut · 11-06-2015, 04:57 PM

A good warden already knows not to cast sandstorm if they've got a scout tanking.. and if their tank doesn't have aggro, sandstorm is pointless anyway.

If the prestige boost to sandstorm are NOT included in what is shared, the warden cloak goes from 'not interesting' to 'completely useless'.

11-06-2015, 05:03 PM

There are still cloaks missing from this list. I have also suggested this before but the squeaky wheel gets the grease: If you want these items tested especially in a raid setting where there could and will be multiply players of the same class wearing this cloak you cannot rely on the drop rate to effect this. Hand them out and get some real feedback from your player base and have them find any stacking issues, bugs. etc. so that you have an opportunity to get them fixed prior to launch of the xpac. Help us help you. Thank you.

11-06-2015, 05:38 PM

inquisitor one is pathetics Frown

11-06-2015, 08:28 PM

Making lay on hands groupwide and *if* the stoneskina is also groupwide (especially if it can be cast on other groups) this has the effect of removing it from a paladins personal rotation as you'll be be casting it on someone elses sceduale, not your own.

Here are a few alternative suggestions:

* add increased block chanxe to demonstration of faith and significantly increase its ward
* increase damage, threat and duration of holy ground
* significantly increases potency on heretics destruction
* Add 100% block chance to the caster of heretics destruction
* crusade now increases incoming heal %
* [group damage proc] is now raid wide and has its damage significantly increased
* Raid arnament now gives 5% damage reduction (for none fighters)

Pretty much any of the above would be better.

11-05-2015, 10:39 PM	#1
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Disclaimer: Before i go any further, I've asked internally to Gninja and Caith to please provide the full list of Class Relic Cloaks so we can provide a complete list of feedback from player perspective regarding these. One did not respond and the other one refused to provide any help in the matter while spawning a Cloak for a fellow player when they asked for it. I conclude that either the other class cloaks missing are not yet completed to be released or are not yet in-game in Beta or they are not willing to help with this subject. These cloaks need to be tested properly on characters to verify if they're actually working or not and to verify their DPS/Support potentials with one another. I recommended to add them on the Beta Buffer to verify them, but no response. Either way, here are the 13 cloaks that have been discovered so far. There are 13 cloaks still missing and will be added to this list later on. 1. Beastlord This looks like not a great Relic Cloak to pick up. Savage Ruin is not a great ability to begin with, and maybe the second line where it says it deals Increased Damage could make it more worthwhile, but being a class that is dependent on it's Warders for it's dps it would have been a better choice to increase the Warders damage and survivability. Losing a Warder mid-fight is catastrophic for a Beastlord compared to any other classes. Also, Beastlords have the worst aggro management that I've ever seen. Anything to help on that aspect would be greatly welcomed. In my opinion, a proc that is directed to the aspect that stands out the most when you talk about a Beastlord would have been a much better choice than a simple raid wide dmg proc. 2.Bruiser Can't really comment on this one. Not sure exactly how it works until it's tested. What I can say for sure is Bruisers survivability in raids is sub par and anything to increase this would be beneficial if you want them to be a proper tank. I'll let others comment on this cloak. 3. Channeler No comment on this one yet, have to test it to verify it's usefulness. Doublecast chance is nice for a channeler, but it's missing Flurry as well. 4. Fury While this looks to be a nice group DPS proc, this will end up being the new Elemental Toxicity that got fixed not long ago for Summoners. I hope this doesn't provide needless lag with these limitless triggers on Fae Fire. Will have to test to verify. 5. Illusionist Picture not Available. It was shown on the October 1 announcement stream on twitch, but that video has been removed from Twitch and Youtube so can't show the picture. It changed Prismatic Chaos VII to be a Group Wide buff with increased Triggers. This is a really amazing change for Illusionist dps, since Prismatic Chaos is one of the better DPS abilities they provide. The same concerns come up with the Group Wide Fae Fire from Fury though; hopefully it won't provide needless lag to raids. 6. Inquisitor This looks to be a really powerful heal but would have to test to verify. Sadly, this expansion still looks like a Shaman expansion. Would also like to know how much Potency and what duration will that Potency have when cast on groups. Also, where's the Flurry? Inquisitors are known for their Auto Attacks, and this has no Flurry whatsoever. 7. Paladin I don't see any benefits to this cloak. First of all, Crusaders use both Flurry and Doublecast. Second of all, Lay on Hands is a personal paladin survivability temp, so when the Paladin has to use it on himself, the group doesn't necessarily need it. Lay on Hands also has too long of a Recast for this to actually be worth anything. There are much better choices of abilities to be included on a Relic Cloak than this. But what paladins need the most is an increase in their own personal survability to compete with the likes of other tanks. 8. Shadowknight Raid wide Death March? No thanks. We don't need more Ability Casting Speed or Int or Multi Attack. The only benefit i see to this is the Raid Wide CC immunity and that doesn't happen too often unless you're deliberately planning on adding Raid Encounters that CC a lot. Shadowknights still need more survivability to compete with Berserkers. Also, the Doublecast is missing. 9. Swashbuckler This is an amazing Relic Cloak. My only concerns is if this affects the Prestige ability Spinning Flurry and if it adds the debuff to all targets affected by Spinning Flurry. If so, this relic cloak is hands down the best I've seen. Good job on this one. 10. Troubador Seems like a good cloak, need to test to verify. At least Aria of Magic will work on scout classes that are grouped with the Troubador now. 11. Warden Seems okay. Sandstorm is just a defensive ability, so having this go raid wide could be beneficial on encounters where we have multiple tanks actively tanking. How much ability modifier are we getting for the 30s of Sandstorms's duration? Would be good to know. Also, it's missing Flurry that Wardens use for their Autos. 12. Warlock Same thing as the Fury, Illusionist and Beastlord, more needless lag for the entire raid with this proc. While it looks to be a good relic cloak to increase the raid's DPS, it does almost nothing for the Warlock, unlike the Wizard cloak which increases the Wizard's personal dps and does nothing for the raid. 13. Wizard Just a personal DPS upgrade for Wizards, but an amazing one at that. Would have been nice to get some raid support from Wizards like raid wide Frigid Gift if raid wide procs are going to be used and not cause lag. Doesn't seem fair that Warlocks get raid wide DPS and nothing for their personal dps, while Wizards get personal dps and nothing for raid wide. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll add the rest of the cloaks once they get discovered or the Developers are nice enough to provide them to us so we can test them and give them more feedback now before Live.

11-05-2015, 10:55 PM	#3
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Anunnaki said: ↑ “I saw the coercer one earlier, but I logged and didn't grab a picture. If I remember correctly: Channel increases the groups potency by 25% of their current potency.” That looks pretty amazing, honestly, since you can cast it on other groups. It really needs a lower base recast timer on Channel though, since it has such a horrible long recast.

11-05-2015, 11:01 PM	#6
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Anunnaki said: ↑ “I asked this in the itemization thread, but I ask here also. Question about the class relics. Are there multiple tiers of these? Or are the cloaks that are dropping the exclusive class effect?” I cannot give you a informed answer on this, but I assume we will see this cloaks in the same manner we saw Malkonis' Cloaks. 1 from Adv Solo, 1 from Heroic with better stats, and 1 from Raid zones with much better stats.

11-05-2015, 11:05 PM	#8
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Bloodguts said: ↑ “That looks pretty amazing, honestly, since you can cast it on other groups. It really needs a lower base recast timer on Channel though, since it has such a horrible long recast.” Channel is self group only. Manaflow can be used on other groups. “3. Channeler No comment on this one yet, have to test it to verify it's usefulness. Doublecast chance is nice for a channeler, but it's missing Flurry as well.” SDA isn't that useful for a Channeler. They have limited spells. Most of their frequent DPS abilities are Combat Arts.

11-05-2015, 11:19 PM	#10
Reevar Member Posts: n/a	“Seems okay. Sandstorm is just a defensive ability, so having this go raid wide could be beneficial on encounters where we have multiple tanks actively tanking. How much ability modifier are we getting for the 30s of Sandstorms's duration? Would be good to know. Also, it's missing Flurry that Wardens use for their Autos.” The Warden cloak would have to be removed any time there is a Scout tank component to a fight or it would remove sandstorm from the list of spells a warden could use in the fight. “When damaged with a melee weapon this spell has a 20% chance to cast Dust Storm on target's attacker. • Decreases Threat to target encounter by 4,498 - 5,497 • If not fighter • Increases Threat to target encounter by 4,988 - 5,987 • If fighter”

11-05-2015, 10:49 PM	#2
Anunnaki Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	I saw the coercer one earlier, but I logged and didn't grab a picture. If I remember correctly: Channel increases the groups potency by 25% of their current potency.

11-05-2015, 10:57 PM	#4
Anunnaki Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	I asked this in the itemization thread, but I ask here also. Question about the class relics. Are there multiple tiers of these? Or are the cloaks that are dropping the exclusive class effect?

11-05-2015, 10:57 PM	#5
kluxor Active Member Posts: n/a	Was hoping to see the assassin cloak but still no info on that one, hope its not super bad. Some of these are amazingly good while some are downright bad. No mit on the tank cloaks? Flurry and doublecast should just both remain on all the cloaks to avoid issues with hybrid classes and since a lot of scouts ca are classified as spells too.

11-05-2015, 11:01 PM	#7
Beyoncia Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	The Inquisitor cloak looks realy good. Need to check the "increased healing ofcourse". And why there is no flurry? I'm a mele focused class after all.

11-05-2015, 11:11 PM	#9
kluxor Active Member Posts: n/a	They really really really need to keep sda and flurry on ALL of the cloaks. There's way too many hybrid classes that can or do benefit from both. Adding only one or the other limits the personalization of said classes, or makes the cloak not even worth using at all

11-05-2015, 11:19 PM	#11
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Errrorr said: ↑ “Channel is self group only. Manaflow can be used on other groups. SDA isn't that useful for a Channeler. They have limited spells. Most of their frequent DPS abilities are Combat Arts.” You are correct on the Channel. I confused it with Channeled Focus which can be casted on other group's. Still Channel has a seriously long recast which makes this relic cloak pretty useless as is when compared to the Illusionist one. On the SDA/Flurry for Channelers, if you spec a Channeler for DPS (which rarely happens) they can dish out a great amount of damage from Poison Bolt and Dissonant Decimation and they use SDA for these spells. So both Flurry and SDA are useful for channelers, just Flurry is used more often because not many Channelers spec for pure DPS.

11-05-2015, 11:26 PM	#12
Boli Active Member Posts: n/a	kluxor said: ↑ “They really really really need to keep sda and flurry on ALL of the cloaks. There's way too many hybrid classes that can or do benefit from both. Adding only one or the other limits the personalization of said classes, or makes the cloak not even worth using at all” This. it is not getting more stats and better gear... it is about getting the same gear as damage is split across two aspects of the class. at the least you should do 2/3 flurry 2/3 double cast of the base number.

11-05-2015, 11:50 PM	#13
Koko Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Bloodguts said: ↑ “7. Paladin I don't see any benefits to this cloak...Second of all, ...There are much better choices ...” It isn't too difficult to think of applications for an instant-cast, cross-party, groupwide stoneskin with a full heal attached.

11-06-2015, 12:57 AM	#14
Skulls Member Posts: n/a	I'm surprised to see all these group damage procs being added to items, I say this because both summoners don't even have a group damage proc anymore ever since they changed Elemental Toxicity to a regular aoe spell. Are the summoners the only class in the game with no group damage proc? This is especially horrible when you have two or three summoners in the same group for heroic or raid. Its just a huge nerf to the whole group. Please give the summoners a group damage proc on their good until cancelled spell hotbar, even if its a weak one, but something, anything is better than a ZERO. And please no BS comments about our horrible weak utility making up for the lack of damage procs, its a joke especially for the conjuror, it couldn't be any worse. Again the utility that summoners have is horrible and it doesn't stack, so again if you have more than one summoner in your group the utility is a joke. Why not allow the group utility from multiple summoners to stack so only one summoners tiny utility isn't all the group gets. The tiny utility doesn't make up for the fact we have no damage proc, in contrast the sorcerers both have two (the warlock has Miasma and Curse of Darkness and the wizzy has Arcane Tyrant and Frigid gift) Can the summoners please get atleast one?

11-06-2015, 05:18 AM	#15
Tabri Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Reevar said: ↑ “The Warden cloak would have to be removed any time there is a Scout tank component to a fight or it would remove sandstorm from the list of spells a warden could use in the fight.” What are you saying with the warden cloak? Like when a tank and a scout are in same group tanking?

11-06-2015, 06:19 AM	#17
Ingerimm Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Bloodguts said: ↑ “7. Paladin I don't see any benefits to this cloak. First of all, Crusaders use both Flurry and Doublecast. Second of all, Lay on Hands is a personal paladin survivability temp, so when the Paladin has to use it on himself, the group doesn't necessarily need it. Lay on Hands also has too long of a Recast for this to actually be worth anything. There are much better choices of abilities to be included on a Relic Cloak than this. But what paladins need the most is an increase in their own personal survability to compete with the likes of other tanks.” I can only agree with my class like this.

11-06-2015, 10:05 AM	#18
Ajjantis Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Please give us an update when ya find the brigand one. Thanks in advance!

11-06-2015, 01:55 PM	#19
Reevar Member Posts: n/a	Tabri said: ↑ “What are you saying with the warden cloak? Like when a tank and a scout are in same group tanking?” The warden cloak makes sandstorm hit the entire raid. So if you have some scouts tanking part of the encounter they are going to get hit with Negative Threat and possibly lose agroo because of sandstorm.

11-06-2015, 02:35 PM	#20
Tabri Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Reevar said: ↑ “The warden cloak makes sandstorm hit the entire raid. So if you have some scouts tanking part of the encounter they are going to get hit with Negative Threat and possibly lose agroo because of sandstorm.” True but its probably minimal if the scouts have all the hate increase buffs from group added to them guess it depends on circumstance and group makeup.

11-06-2015, 02:39 PM	#21
Genghes Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I would love to get my hands on the bruiser cloak and test that effect to see if it's a double cast, adds more hits, or just increases the likelihood that it will hit instead of miss

11-06-2015, 02:41 PM	#22
Lemilla Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Bloodguts said: ↑ “3. Channeler No comment on this one yet, have to test it to verify it's usefulness. Doublecast chance is nice for a channeler, but it's missing Flurry as well.” Weapon and casting skills are a lot lower than the other Relic cloaks. Channelers (and Mystics, Wardens, Inquisitors) should get Flurry instead of Doublecast. As for the effect: Reducing the HP cost of the slot-3 Ward from 15% to 10% doesn't help much. Combined with the huge Dissonance cost (4800 if also spending AA on it), it's still too expensive to be worth casting. The reduced Dissonance cost can be useless or OP, depending on what it really does. If it only affects Siphoned Protection, it's useless. That spell will still be too expensive to cast. If it affects all conduits, this is seriously OP. For many conduits, this halves the casting cost. This nearly doubles the healing potential of the Construct, while making any dissonance management while dpsing irrelevant, negating one of the important aspects of the entire class.

11-06-2015, 02:58 PM	#23
Daalilama Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I would love to see what they gave the Templar's...among the other ones not listed...this close to release putting mediocre abilities on the new cloaks even with raid wide benefit is a no no.

11-06-2015, 04:19 PM	#24
dngrmse Active Member Posts: n/a	Question: Where are these cloaks dropping? People have been repeating on the beta forums, and in game that they 'heard' that they drop in AS zones. Is this correct, and not just a rumor? Can anyone confirm these items are dropping in AS zones?

11-06-2015, 04:31 PM	#25
Alphonsus Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Since you can only equip 1 relic item at a time, I doubt it will be the cloak for many classes.

11-06-2015, 04:50 PM	#26
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Alphonsus said: ↑ “Since you can only equip 1 relic item at a time, I doubt it will be the cloak for many classes.” Very true... even if they don't find another relic. For many of the classes the cloak abilities seem.... unimpressive.

11-06-2015, 04:57 PM	#27
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Reevar said: ↑ “The Warden cloak would have to be removed any time there is a Scout tank component to a fight or it would remove sandstorm from the list of spells a warden could use in the fight.” A good warden already knows not to cast sandstorm if they've got a scout tanking.. and if their tank doesn't have aggro, sandstorm is pointless anyway. If the prestige boost to sandstorm are NOT included in what is shared, the warden cloak goes from 'not interesting' to 'completely useless'.

11-06-2015, 05:03 PM	#28
Kamea New Member Posts: n/a	There are still cloaks missing from this list. I have also suggested this before but the squeaky wheel gets the grease: If you want these items tested especially in a raid setting where there could and will be multiply players of the same class wearing this cloak you cannot rely on the drop rate to effect this. Hand them out and get some real feedback from your player base and have them find any stacking issues, bugs. etc. so that you have an opportunity to get them fixed prior to launch of the xpac. Help us help you. Thank you.

11-06-2015, 05:38 PM	#29
Chilton0585 Member Posts: n/a	inquisitor one is pathetics

11-06-2015, 08:28 PM	#30
Boli Active Member Posts: n/a	Making lay on hands groupwide and if the stoneskina is also groupwide (especially if it can be cast on other groups) this has the effect of removing it from a paladins personal rotation as you'll be be casting it on someone elses sceduale, not your own. Here are a few alternative suggestions: * add increased block chanxe to demonstration of faith and significantly increase its ward * increase damage, threat and duration of holy ground * significantly increases potency on heretics destruction * Add 100% block chance to the caster of heretics destruction * crusade now increases incoming heal % * [group damage proc] is now raid wide and has its damage significantly increased * Raid arnament now gives 5% damage reduction (for none fighters) Pretty much any of the above would be better.