Whats the master plan for Bruisers?

[ShinmaRyche]

Is there one? Im just not sure what my role in the future will be, and its kind of disheartening. Where do we fit in "the vision"? Ive been playing since launch day, and every 5 LUs or so, our job seems to change. Its fine by me really, but it just doesnt seem that there is that "master plan" for us. 

 

Maybe its because im in a small guild with real life friends, I dont get a chance to do much high end raiding. (If all of our high level players are on all at the same time (yeah right), we can make exactly one full group, but not really that balanced, @ Bruiser (67), SK(65), Wizard(63), Assassin(61), Inq(67), Warden62)) We didnt intentionally have 2 people make healers, everyone created what the really WANTED to play, and i feel were fortunate in that aspect.

 

We were a huge secondary "adjustment" with the proc change to Rangers, and, with LU21, they are getting a bump back in dps, which is fine. I assume "someone" will eventually get to looking at our class.

 

The problem that I have is this. Im finding it hard to find a group at times. A large majority of the time, people prefer plate tanks, which is fine, I guess, but people seem to be filling groups according to a "cookie cutter" Tank-DPS-DPS-Utility (Read:Coercer)-Healer-Healer. Now, I dont get in a group as a tank unless there are none to be found. People "deal" with me as MT, then find out "zomg, bruisers actually can tank xp groups".

 

 Ok, so I have a hard time finding a group, make my own right? Ok. Ive had numerous people blind drop the group after finding out that A. im MT, or B. I only look for one healer. Also, most groups actively seek out a SECOND healer. (as previously mentioned above) Why? Has the quality of player gone down SO MUCH that a second healer is needed?

 

Yeah, so this post is kind of random, but I cant be the only one that feels like this.

 

BTW: The best group ive ever been in was Bruiser-Bruiser-Bruiser-Monk-Monk-Inquis. Can you say Buzzsaw? Heh.

Message Edited by ShinmaRyche on 03-18-200606:51 PM

[Raz]

just responding to your best group.. change out 1 monk and 1 bruiser for a coercer and a zerk (for the group bezerk) and there you have a fun group

[Adewale]

The problem isn't with SOE's "master plan," it's with the masses not knowing we can tank effectively in groups.

[sarsippi]

I was in sanctum last night. As tank. Lvl 63 to start and ended out the night lvl 64.

It was me, a warlock, a paladin, a necro and a warden. We had another bruiser early on but he had to head out. Everyone was around 60-62, except the warden who was lvl 57 and me, starting out at 63 then 64. The toughest mob we took out was a lvl 67, Glyton, some annoying little dragon thing that wasnt even named, sadly. He was pretty tough, lol, he was for some quest, but fought like a named. We really only had troubles once, and it was cause of Glyton, we climbed up and he agroed our healer 1st and I just FD'ed. The only time we had to take a power break was cause of some dog things that drained my power, two fights and I was tapped, heh. The healer, spite only being lvl 57 never had to take a power break, never even got low except against Glyton. Only a couple times did I lose agro to some one else, and was mainly because of an out of an encounter agro, whether he was an add or just one that got pulled with the encounter. But it wasnt often, and not bad ratio specially considering the ony way I tautned those out of encounter mobs were with AE's. Oh and I pretty much doubled everyones dps every fight, I had ACT going, lol. Some of my parses came up as 800+, but thats not very reliable, I prolly used savage blows on mutiple mobs those fights. But accurate ones parsed as high as 550.

So, as a tank and doubling the other members of the groups dps and only once getting the low lvl healer low power, I'd say we make pretty fine tanks, lol. And I think we fit dps role just fine.

So to answer your question.. whats in the future for bruisers, us. Well, I think our future is fine, just need players to realize that we are a class that do well at what we do. Of course, there might be some bruisers out there who are horrible and give the bruisers as a whole a bad name, but im sure theres some guardians or zerkers who do that also, but theres not a lot we can do about that.

And to comment your best group... I think a group of bruisers could take out anything as long as it wasnt epic, heh. Can you say never ending stun? lol

[Zigmun]

 

Unfortunately most people would rather sit around for an hour wasting time waiting for the "perfect" group rather than just going out and doing it.

 

How many groups I have been in where some bozo has "insisted" we need a plate tank... and I'm only lvl 24...

 

some things never change

 

 

 

 

[Mantua1]

It can be a culmanation of a lot of things.

Players really dont know what our class does - really. I have had groups of 2 bruiser (one at the MT) warlock, assasian and inquis. Sanctum of scale and we had no problem and 2 player leveled in to their mid 60's.

Bruisers can do some raid tanking - which as a point of contention and subject of good discussion. I was in a raid last night in a T6 zone. When our raid tank lost aggro or died for whatever reason I was the next in line to get aggro long enough to rez the tank and let him get aggro back. Yup I took a beating but remember Bruisers give as good as the get ! We have a lot of things we can do. Read around the forums - we have some Bruisers that really know their class.

The other thing you will encounter is the times you use one of your Mezzes ir Fear. You will hear other group members say "why do you switch targets?" After a short explaination they find it most useful. If its a really good group they will think your king when the adds come you you mezz one and fear one. It can be fun to be a Bruiser.

Master plan for our class - kill everything thats not bruiser friendly

[PhozFa]

I put together a group for Halls Of Fate Last night. Two people insisted that we needed a plate tank and that a bruiser couldn't tank it. By the end one of those 2 said it was the smoothest run they ever had. Few points i'm trying to make is for one our role is tanks, while we can dish out some mild dps if we need to we are offensive tanks (offensive doesn't mean worse).  Another is  alot of people are un informed. I dunno if its because they had bad  things happen with another bruiser or even a monk or what but there are people who don't think we can tank at all. Last point is since people are uninformed we need learn what we can do and prove we can do our jobs where a class such as gaurdian (or any plate tank rather) doesn't have to. I guess this is one thing i like about being a bruiser other than the fact i kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. I'm the underdog.

Message Edited by PhozFate on 03-19-200605:23 AM

[Pnaxx]

Well, unless we have changed....it's been a month or so since I played...our taunts suck. Period. I used to play my zerker like mad all over and almost always hold agro even with very large mobs, but I did that with the Bruiser and I couldn't hold agro fer nothing. 

 

Can it be done...yea I suppose....but it is dang hard....much harder than plate tanks have....or at least guards and zerks. Tank with my Bruiser reminded me of tanking with my Pally.....was just plain old hard to hold agro. You have to try every trick in the book and then pray. Or make sure you have adept3 or above taunts...and most people don't have the money to get those. So if you are stuck with adept 1/app4 taunts, gooooooooood luck holding agro with multiple mobs of6 or more...it aint happening.

 

So groups roaming Norrath lfg SHOULD be cautios about using Bruiser to MT, unless the said Bruiser has all Adept3/Master taunts. Just the way it is right now. I know.

 

I was known for being a very very good tank with Zerk...it was my pride to do great, keep group alive, die first and get great xp. Course when your pushing the envelope you will have fare share of group wipes or your playing too conservativly. But anyway.......as a soloer or OT, we rule, but as MT we suck, unless taunts are maxed...and I mean every taunt maxed.

[ganjookie]

The majority of the players will NEVER understand that we can tank, and they never will.  Its been that way since 2004. Sorry you feel frustrated OP

[Pheeb]

I've a 58sk on live which I played since day 1 - I swtich to a bruiser who is now 37 - I can definitely see the difference when fighting a group of mobs - first I have no problem keeping aggro on a single mob - the problem with my bruiser is keeping aggro with a  group of mobs - However I just don't rely on my taunts (none are adept 3 right now - they are adept 1 and I also use Goading of Gesture from Splitsaw expansion) - The technic I use to compensate is I switch in-between mobs in a group by using intimidate and fear at least on 2 and then resuming fighting on the 3rd one with some single taunt - I group taunt as well when I have the opportunity of course...if there is a 4th mob, I will just switch quick and try to keep aggro with the 3rd by stunning him or using some CA's cauing some nice bruises Yes it is much harder to keep group aggro but my point for a bruiser (and am only 37) is that you need to rely on other CA's (and we have some great one) to compensate - Do we completely compensate? no, but it is better than just relying on taunts...Of course, if something goes nuts, I'll use rescue amongs other avoiddance and mitig spell to prevent some mage/healer to go down...Again this is coming from someone having been a plate tank and now playing a bruiser - I started doing this after I reached 30's as I went to a conclusion that a bruiser can't just rely on taunts to MT with a group of mobs....Now if the technic that I use is a wrong one please let me know - sorry for the thread derailement...

---

Pnaxx wrote:

Well, unless we have changed....it's been a month or so since I played...our taunts suck. Period. I used to play my zerker like mad all over and almost always hold agro even with very large mobs, but I did that with the Bruiser and I couldn't hold agro fer nothing. 

 

Can it be done...yea I suppose....but it is dang hard....much harder than plate tanks have....or at least guards and zerks. Tank with my Bruiser reminded me of tanking with my Pally.....was just plain old hard to hold agro. You have to try every trick in the book and then pray. Or make sure you have adept3 or above taunts...and most people don't have the money to get those. So if you are stuck with adept 1/app4 taunts, gooooooooood luck holding agro with multiple mobs of6 or more...it aint happening.

 

So groups roaming Norrath lfg SHOULD be cautios about using Bruiser to MT, unless the said Bruiser has all Adept3/Master taunts. Just the way it is right now. I know.

 

I was known for being a very very good tank with Zerk...it was my pride to do great, keep group alive, die first and get great xp. Course when your pushing the envelope you will have fare share of group wipes or your playing too conservativly. But anyway.......as a soloer or OT, we rule, but as MT we suck, unless taunts are maxed...and I mean every taunt maxed.

---

[Forsaken1]

To the OP, I feel your pain. I love my Bruiser. But I'm so freakin tired of spending whole evenings trying to find a group or even worse, seeing someone repeatedly trying to get people for a group on the same channel I'm advertising LFG on. So I /t the person asking to join their group and am told "sure, come to..." only to have them send me a tell a minute later saying 'sorry, someone just invited a real tank, were full"....  :smileysad:

[ganjookie]

guild groups FTW!

[Greavous]

I really don’t believe what I’m hearing

Ok here's the thing.

We have a guild of over 250 players. We raid all T6 content and are hitting T7 slowly as we get peeps lvl'd.

We have 2 Raiding tanks in our guild. A Guard and Me, the Bruiser.

I tank a lot of our raids depends on epic type. Some require Mit tanks and some Avoidance tanks.

Point in case, it took us a few attempts to kill the vamps in The Gates of Ahket Aken until I stepped up and tanked them. They are avoidance mobs.

The Gardner in The Court of Al'Afaz is an avoidance mob. Just last night I was MT for Captain Graul Ana[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]e in the Fountain of life while the other tanks picked up the adds plus I tanked the 2 offsiders of the God King while our Guard took him.

I have never been without a group. So much so that I find it impossible to just solo anymore.

I'm continually one of the top dps's in any raid and that’s not because I play with bunnies.

In MT group I'm around 11000 health, 5000 mit and 79.2% avoidance.

I’m sick of hearing bland who are we statements thrown out there.

 

Being a Bruiser rocks. Best class in the game.

We kick butt and can take a beating.

I never lose hate on a single mob. I'm always telling everyone to go hard out cause its not going anywhere.

Problem is you guys are trying to hold hate with your taunts

That’s not how we work

We are damage/hit agro holders

Yes I have rescue at master 1 and my group taunt is master 1 but my single is only Adept 3. They are not the way I hold hate. They are extra and great for holding hate against multi mobs.

Best way to run it for most mobs is GuardMT and Bruiser OT.

If the Guard is in trouble I can pull any mob off him when ever I want to before he dies and the avoidance you can give to your MT is huge.

Your job as an OT is to take the agro if there is a problem and direct all the damage to one focal point.

That leaves the MT to “hold” the mob in place to get the bash.

 

In single groups you are never going to lose agro on a single mob ever.

Multi mobs are different. Yes you can mezz and fear but I very rarely resort to that.

As long as you lay a ton of hit on each mob they aren’t going anywhere. Use your taunts if they break onto someone else if you want, but smashing them with some heavy damage I’ve found gets them back a lot faster.

 

Cant remember how many times I’ve saved a whole raid group from having to revive and run all the way back. Sometimes through repops, that just blows.

Feign death rocks.

 

How many times have you jumped off a high ledge that would kill a normal person and landed casting your true AE and ripping the heart out of a mob before they even know that they are prey.

 

Guys rejoice in the fact that Bruisers rock.

Don’t let the whinging whining “ yeah but we can’t………” deadheads make you feel anything but the truly Uber class that is the BRUISER

 

Before you flame understand this is not a look at me I’m cool post. This is a look at what a fantastic figure the Bruiser is. Half my guild wants to be one. Most had never run into one or grouped with one before me. That’s the problem and the glory.

Ever have a Bruiser tanking your group and you will look for one every time you go out.

[TheSummoned]

That's the spirit Greavous! Bruisers do need a different aproach both from healers and the guy playing the bruiser when it comes to tanking. I've had templars say Wow! and they are the worse of the healers for us. I often even forget that I have a taunt, but even then I rarely loose aggro (mostly it's to the brigand throwing his big debuffs around). Often on nameds I would say to go all out, I'd put up my KB combo and the mob would be dead within 10 seconds (nameds have 3x bigger hp pools than normal mobs).

[ShinmaRyche]

Look. You're preaching to the choir. I know were great tanks for 90% of the content out there, and ive even tanked terrorantuala once. Its just that no one else does. Sitting at nearly 68, most of my skills are adept III, except for a couple. I have a couple techs that help me control agro on multimob encounters. BUT. There is a world of difference between your character, and mine. You could only group with your guildmates, and always have a group. Also, im pretty sure a raiding bruiser doesnt have an issue getting pickup groups if there were ever the need.

I have some pretty decent equipment for a 67, but I KNOW ill probably never see any fabled, and the renegade set is a pipe dream. 

Maybe its because I dont mind soloing, if i get subbed by a "real tank" it doesnt really tick me off, although it probably should. Considering that both times this happened, I was tanking fine, and no one in the group had died to that point. If i cant get another group right away, fine, I run off and do my solo thing.

Also, I can MT just fine, Pnaxx, you might want to work on your tech a little. All fighters that consider themselves tanks, need to upgrade skills and taunts, or you will be hurting yourself.

Eventually, the general player base will understand that we can tank.

[Gladesman]

---

Greavous wrote:

Being a Bruiser rocks. Best class in the game.

We kick butt and can take a beating.

---

*nods* Bruisers FTW!!

Generally I play with guildies, but even when I'm out harvesting without my LFG tag on I get invites from everywhere.. I feel just as popular as my guardian felt a year ago.

With each new level I love my bruiser more.. and I love showing other players that my bruiser is often a better tank (in keeping aggro and healing wise (yay for self heal and immune buffs!)) than other fighters AND if I'm not the tank I love showing off my DPS or saving the tank's behind when he/she either loses aggro or when adds come into play.

My guild has never had issues with appreciating the brawler class, even before LU13, my then regular group had 2 monks / 1 guard (me) / 1 swash / 1 chanter and 1 mystic.. far from the supposed ideal group, but melee power is highly underestimated by most players.. who needs a root when you can stun/stifle the mob for the entire fight and the healer can actually twiddle his thumbs or throw in a nuke for a change?

The bruisers in my guild are actually contemplating an all bruiser guild.. we'd be our own tanks, healers and dps-ers and the mobs would run away scared :smileyvery-happy:

I do understand that some people think we lack a single purpose.. but I look at it from this perspective: we have multiple purposes and we're really quite handy in either a DPS, utility or a tanking role; or all of them at the same time even!

I feel sorry for the OP feeling bad about the class, but demonstrate your skills and abilities to others and educate the people who just don't know.. they'll start to appreciate you (both as a player and your class) just like they should.. because bruisers are awesome!

[Gladesman]

---

ShinmaRyche wrote:

Maybe its because I dont mind soloing, if i get subbed by a "real tank" it doesnt really tick me off, although it probably should. Considering that both times this happened, I was tanking fine, and no one in the group had died to that point. If i cant get another group right away, fine, I run off and do my solo thing.

---

Oh yeah! I forgot.. we also rock at soloing!! We may not be the fastest at it, but still..

I really don't mind not tanking in a group, but the tank should then not expect me to hold in for him just because he can't keep aggro.. if the mob turns on me and the healers aren't fast enough and I've spent my self-heal I can still FD and not die.. it's the advantage of not being a mage class; I've yet to come across a regular mob that can single-shot me :smileytongue: [don't want to try this with Hurricanus or something..]

[DarkMirrax]

---

Greavous wrote:

I really don’t believe what I’m hearing

Ok here's the thing.

We have a guild of over 250 players. We raid all T6 content and are hitting T7 slowly as we get peeps lvl'd.

We have 2 Raiding tanks in our guild. A Guard and Me, the Bruiser.

I tank a lot of our raids depends on epic type. Some require Mit tanks and some Avoidance tanks.

Point in case, it took us a few attempts to kill the vamps in The Gates of Ahket Aken until I stepped up and tanked them. They are avoidance mobs.

The Gardner in The Court of Al'Afaz is an avoidance mob. Just last night I was MT for Captain Graul Ana[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]e in the Fountain of life while the other tanks picked up the adds plus I tanked the 2 offsiders of the God King while our Guard took him.

I have never been without a group. So much so that I find it impossible to just solo anymore.

I'm continually one of the top dps's in any raid and that’s not because I play with bunnies.

In MT group I'm around 11000 health, 5000 mit and 79.2% avoidance.

I’m sick of hearing bland who are we statements thrown out there.

 

Being a Bruiser rocks. Best class in the game.

We kick butt and can take a beating.

I never lose hate on a single mob. I'm always telling everyone to go hard out cause its not going anywhere.

Problem is you guys are trying to hold hate with your taunts

That’s not how we work

We are damage/hit agro holders

Yes I have rescue at master 1 and my group taunt is master 1 but my single is only Adept 3. They are not the way I hold hate. They are extra and great for holding hate against multi mobs.

Best way to run it for most mobs is GuardMT and Bruiser OT.

If the Guard is in trouble I can pull any mob off him when ever I want to before he dies and the avoidance you can give to your MT is huge.

Your job as an OT is to take the agro if there is a problem and direct all the damage to one focal point.

That leaves the MT to “hold” the mob in place to get the bash.

 

In single groups you are never going to lose agro on a single mob ever.

Multi mobs are different. Yes you can mezz and fear but I very rarely resort to that.

As long as you lay a ton of hit on each mob they aren’t going anywhere. Use your taunts if they break onto someone else if you want, but smashing them with some heavy damage I’ve found gets them back a lot faster.

 

Cant remember how many times I’ve saved a whole raid group from having to revive and run all the way back. Sometimes through repops, that just blows.

Feign death rocks.

 

How many times have you jumped off a high ledge that would kill a normal person and landed casting your true AE and ripping the heart out of a mob before they even know that they are prey.

 

Guys rejoice in the fact that Bruisers rock.

Don’t let the whinging whining “ yeah but we can’t………” deadheads make you feel anything but the truly Uber class that is the BRUISER

 

Before you flame understand this is not a look at me I’m cool post. This is a look at what a fantastic figure the Bruiser is. Half my guild wants to be one. Most had never run into one or grouped with one before me. That’s the problem and the glory.

Ever have a Bruiser tanking your group and you will look for one every time you go out.

---

Completely agree with you grev , however .... WE know we can Tank , others dont and thats the point of the OP , im in the same situatuion lucky enough to be in a good guild with a lot of members (only brusier ) and I never ever struggle to get a group , simple guild tell and its like ... ohhh grind time

 

Point is other players think :-

 Guardian, Zerker , Pali (SK) = Tank

Brusier/Monk = DPS

We just gotta keep proving them wrong , example i was tanking in pof for a nice giants grind back when 58 and we were rocking the shop .... until i needed to take an hour afk so someone invited a high level guard to take my place .. came back to about 100 tells saying how long was i going to be as other tank was so much slower etc etc etc etc .. joined back up and someone said "finally a proper tank" hehe good to be loved.  Spread the word We brusiers are our way :smileyvery-happy:

[PhozFa]

---

Pnaxx wrote:

Well, unless we have changed....it's been a month or so since I played...our taunts suck. Period. I used to play my zerker like mad all over and almost always hold agro even with very large mobs, but I did that with the Bruiser and I couldn't hold agro fer nothing. 

 

Can it be done...yea I suppose....but it is dang hard....much harder than plate tanks have....or at least guards and zerks. Tank with my Bruiser reminded me of tanking with my Pally.....was just plain old hard to hold agro. You have to try every trick in the book and then pray. Or make sure you have adept3 or above taunts...and most people don't have the money to get those. So if you are stuck with adept 1/app4 taunts, gooooooooood luck holding agro with multiple mobs of6 or more...it aint happening.

 

So groups roaming Norrath lfg SHOULD be cautios about using Bruiser to MT, unless the said Bruiser has all Adept3/Master taunts. Just the way it is right now. I know.

 

I was known for being a very very good tank with Zerk...it was my pride to do great, keep group alive, die first and get great xp. Course when your pushing the envelope you will have fare share of group wipes or your playing too conservativly. But anyway.......as a soloer or OT, we rule, but as MT we suck, unless taunts are maxed...and I mean every taunt maxed.

---

Trouble with agro? I'm sorry thats your fault for not knowing your toon. sure warriors are easier to hold agro but bruiser has great agro. Single target agro if i don't hold back i'll pull it off ANY tank (maybe beside a monk) without taunts. Reality is our AE agro is weak. Well what to do? SWITCH TARGETS. If our single target is that strong we can afford to spread the taunts while waiting for refresh. This may be hard on gorups of 5 or more but then healers shouldn't get agro if you use AEs and group taunt. AE'ers if they get agro the mob should be just about dead anyway so i'll switch to that mob and finish it quick. Then if you still that worried about it go your WIS line and carry a staff. Being a warrior doesn't make you a good tank. Knowing what your doing does.

[Gladesman]

On the aggro thing: the amount of hate savage blows/bruising, and to a lesser extent slap around, generates is amazing. I hardly even have to use a taunt to maintain aggro from a group after I drop these two AE's on them (granted I have savage blows at M1 and slap around at AdeptIII, but still..). Combine it with your single target and group taunts and you should not lose aggro any easier than a warrior/crusader does.

[Parasite]

I was just about to start a topic with the name

 

"Bruiser Identity Crisis !"

 

But then i saw this :p It hits me to, What role are we supposed to be playing ?When i started my bruiser i saw myself as an equivalent tank to guardian and all other classes but just in a different way.

Instead of tauntingwe have to keep agro by doing damage, Instead of having heavy armour we would elegantly avoid all hits,and on a bad luck streak we would die a terrible death ...

 

Now looking at the AA's i have the impression that i'm some sort of scout class ment to do damage.Saddest thing is that Monks will be double advantaged on this as well !!

Haste kicks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and with just a few low haste items i can't start dreaming of having any.

 

Wich there would at least be one main obvious tank line in the AA settings but they all seem te be focussing on Damage.

Why oh why did guardians bug us in beta when we had the mitigation line.

 

Anyway i hope or good friend

 

Moorguard !

 

Will respond to this.

Having boosted DPS is nice, but i rather offer the group/raid a good tank that does a bit more damage then other tanks.

Hence me going for 8 ranks in agi for Defense and 8 ranks in Parry and Crits from INT because that's the only thing that's getting close to what i need. What i would realy need is a permanent Mitigation boost, like Guardians gaining avoidance trough their AA ... What is wrong with us getting mitigation then?

 

[Jezekie]

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ShinmaRyche wrote:

 Ok, so I have a hard time finding a group, make my own right? Ok. Ive had numerous people blind drop the group after finding out that A. im MT, or B. I only look for one healer. Also, most groups actively seek out a SECOND healer. (as previously mentioned above) Why? Has the quality of player gone down SO MUCH that a second healer is needed?

---

The quality of players have always been this poor, I never understood the need for two healers for single group exp grinding. To me it was slack from either the one healer already present or other members currently in the group. Step it up a notch and you won't need two healers, even with a brawler as tank.

---

ShinmaRyche wrote:Masterplan

---

The masterplan? The "Vision"? Honestly? I don't think there's been one for a long time. I find it quite worrying, least from what I understand, that only one person on the Design team is in charge of class balancing in regards to Combat Arts/Spells, not certain about other aspects of the classes but what I definitely see is a lack of consistency in designs. Even if this isn't the case, there hasn't been any clear case about where Brawlers fits in to the big picture. Moorgard used to be a frequent front guard for the two brawler subclasses and often vocal about where we fit in (Launch -> LU#13), not to mention assorted members of the community often times almost crusading for equality between the tank classes, beating Pro DPS supporters or moaning plate classes with a stick. Looking back, it seems it was mostly a waste of time. Has there come anything good from it? *shrugs*, there hasn't been any support for a long time in the regard that all Fighters are meant to tank equally, I'm certain that mantra has been scrapped and it's now plate tanks, more so Guardians then any other, that are continuously going to be the #1 desired raid tank.Certain individuals of the Brawler community sometimes claimed the classes were fine at raids, which arguably, is the most important aspect for the more vocal Brawlers when it comes to class balance, and that annoys me when the classes end up in situations where there clearly is a huge difference in desirability and usefulness.Moorgard, or anyone from the design team is of course welcome to shine light on this situation.Personally I lost faith in Brawlers being balanced as Raid tanks anytime soon, the Achievement system and Itemization is a clear, to me, sign that things are heading, and have been, in a direction towards completely removing brawlers from tanking raids at the end game.

[Gladesman]

My question is: just how many pure tanks does this game really need? When's the last time you've seen a group with 2 plate tanks in them happily moving along? It hardly ever happens, because it is incredibly ineffective. Now, a brawler may not be the preferred raid tank, but in exp groups I don't know a single player who would rather have 2 guardians in a group than 2 brawlers.

 

I'm perfectly satisfied with my regular tanking abilities and I'm overjoyed with my DPS/utility.. it makes our class the best in game imo. I don't care that some of the other fighter classes can tank the epic content better, I know I do fine on everything else (and this just because I haven't raided much with this char)   

 

If we all tank exactly the same (whether it's based on avoidance or mitigation).. then what will we offer guardians and zerkers to a lesser extent whose only real flavour at the moment is raid tanking? I mean, pally's can heal and SK's have that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] tasty HT, but what will we give guards/zerkers? Give them extra DPS or utility like our stuns/FD/heal/fear and we'd all be screaming for a nerf as well. Or would it be fair to keep them as the buffbots or non-participants they currently are when not being the MT?

 

I love the fact that I bring something else other than just tanking skills.. unlike our plate friends we have DPS good enough that exp groups will have you tag along and some of our abilities make us desirable to group with even if there's another tank in there already. I cherish my special status as tank/DPS-er.. yes, I may not be considered the best tank or the best DPS-er in the game, but I do just fine tanking for normal exp groups and I never have an issue finding a group being 2nd tank or DPS or whatever.

If brawlers want to tank epic content just as well as warriors then we should have to give up some of our other benefits OR give warriors the same kind of benefits that we have and that would just mean that most of the fighter population would be sitting on the sidelines because a group or a raidforce really doesn't need more than two tanks at most.

 

Sure, I can imagine some bruisers would like to see an AA line that increases your mitigation and I would maybe like that myself..  but I would think that this would also have to mean a serious decrease in our DPS. Right after LU13 I (as a guardian at the time) already suggested to make the difference between offensive and defensive stances bigger/different for all fighters so that we'd all have some sort of other role when we're not tanking OR design content so that situational tanking is really required and more diverse.

 

Just my 2cts.