Str AA still viable?

Bayne · 11-23-2006, 01:01 AM

With the changes to how stats work and the implimentation of Adornments, is the STR still the choice of DPS monks?

RSZ · 11-28-2006, 07:54 AM

Bayne wrote:
With the changes to how stats work and the implimentation of Adornments, is the STR still the choice of DPS monks?

IMO it wasn't viable to begin with and even less now.

Sslarrga · 11-29-2006, 06:21 AM

The only situation where I would see str still being viable.

Is if you are a Bruiser that is planning on specing for the riposte AA in EoF.

In which case you'd want to spec for 4-4-8-8 Str and 4-4-8-8 Int in order to get as many ripostes as you can.

Otherwise, the only other situation it is still viable is while leveling up to avoid having to replace your weapons constantly.

Warrior's getting up to +86% DA is far superiour to brawlers 96% DA as it scales with weapon quality. 80 DR one hander +86% DA (more with the right gear and set items) is at least 148 DR compared to the best DW combo coming out to around 125 DR. Joy. Or the Strength AA at around 110-ish DR with DA.

Yeah, strength AA is pretty much useless.

Regards,

Croaker

Message Edited by Sslarrga on 11-28-2006 05:21 PM

Raidi Sovin'faile · 11-29-2006, 10:41 AM

Warriors get 76% DA from their AA. Dunno if they get anymore elsewhere or not, but that's all the AA gives (I've played my bro's Zerker).Also, you say "pretty much useless", except that 110 DR is still better than what any non-fabled Monks out there have. Sure, it's not the best.. but unless you are a monk that's going around sporting fabled dual wielders, Strength line will be better for you. And it will be better than anything else up until then. The second ability (debuffing crush mitigation on target, maintainable) does more for damage than Eagle Spin would if you used Dual Wields, so overall the line itself does better than anything except Fabled.I myself have only one of my Twin Calamities, and can't afford to purchase a Fist of Pain or whatever off the broker yet, so I'm sticking with Strength line until then. I still outparse, and beat other Brawlers in duels with my bare hands, so I must be doing something right.

Sslarrga · 11-29-2006, 03:44 PM

I would use Soulspur and Katar of the four Winds (if I remember the name correctly) both easily quested legendary over 4-4-8 or even 4-8-8 str. The loss of DPS is minor assuming you spec 4-4-8 Sta, Wis, Int when using DW weapons over for example 4-4-8 Str, Sta, Int, or Str, Wis, Int or Str, Sta, Wis.

In addition you gain the ability to put adornments on the weapons, and you gain the stats from the weapon, and you gain hps and power from the weapons. Not to mention that Soulspur got a huge upgrade going from a 3% proc to a 9% proc with the launch of EoF.

So yeah, I'm still going with Str. AA line being virtually useless except for a Bruiser going for Riposte/Stoneskin AA. Or in the case of leveling up to avoid frequent weapon upgrades.

Then again there's absolutely nothing wrong with going Str to roleplay a traditional asian unarmed martial artist.

Regards,

Croaker, Deaths Door blah blah blah...

Raidi Sovin'faile · 11-30-2006, 03:34 AM

Quested can't have adornments. Try putting and adornment on the Katar of the Winds.

I have the higher DR Twin Calamities and the Katar of the Four Winds, and I still parse better with Str 4,5,8. I don't have a decent adornment on my TC yet, but regardless, it's gonna take two fabled weapons to beat unarmed with the strength line. I'm talking at least 55+ DR with adornments. Katar of the winds is only 50 DR, and Soulspur is someplace in the high 40s...

The power proc on Soulspur is very nice, but regardless it can't be adorned, so it's a major loss in damage vs unarmed.

Then again, I'm a bruiser... maybe our unarmed damage is better than monks.

Xxooo-Coav · 11-30-2006, 09:10 PM

Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:

Quested can't have adornments. Try putting and adornment on the Katar of the Winds.

I have the higher DR Twin Calamities and the Katar of the Four Winds, and I still parse better with Str 4,5,8. I don't have a decent adornment on my TC yet, but regardless, it's gonna take two fabled weapons to beat unarmed with the strength line. I'm talking at least 55+ DR with adornments. Katar of the winds is only 50 DR, and Soulspur is someplace in the high 40s...

The power proc on Soulspur is very nice, but regardless it can't be adorned, so it's a major loss in damage vs unarmed.

Then again, I'm a bruiser... maybe our unarmed damage is better than monks.

Due to the fact I have yet to acquire any DW weapon over DR 47, I have stuck with the STR AA (unarmed).
If I add my pathetic weapons, my dps drops dramatically (from 400ish hit to 250hit).

I do have Staff of the Flapping Wing, but even that hits a bit less than my attacks combined.

Until then, STR AA line is still very much a viable option, even with the loss of stats.

Jobeson · 12-03-2006, 10:40 AM

invest in the shoulder augment to give you the + damage for every one of your attacks. It greatly ups the damage from the str AA line. True you will not have the weapon augments but with the rate your fists spam attacks you will not care. I believe its around + 100 damage every swing. Yes it works for weapons too but with the high double attacks from no weapons it will improve the str dps even more. Im going weapons myself. I have one twin need to find another lol

Raidi Sovin'faile · 12-03-2006, 12:15 PM

Strange that you post that now, consider it was fixed more than a few days ago to be the reactive damage it was supposed to be. No more proc'ing 100 damage per attack.

KazzySoJaz · 12-03-2006, 05:39 PM

For those who missed my post in another thread, regarding this same matter (three of them up recently with same question don't people use search?)

To add to what I said below, katar of the four wind blows... highest dmg TC and Bonetooth Skewer before EoF were only a tiny tiny bit better and not consistantly (@ most 30 dps better, and at times a hundred or so worse). I used Str line for months and months before EoF, until I got my 63 (now 60.5) dmg rating TC. Str 4-4-8, Int 4-4-8, and Sta 4-4-8 are now the best DPS setup IMO. The only thing you lose is some str, which is almost meaningless with the curve and adornments.

And now my reply fromt his thread... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=38959

Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:

It's closer to ~57 DR now, after the reduction from the big combat update.

Maybe 55 DR if you have level appropriate damage adornments. That's still fairly high... I don't think there's a Legendary drop out there that high on a dual wield, so we are looking at at least fabled.

I don't know where you got the 57 dmg rating thing from, but I am hitting the same as I was pre-EoF with bare fists. Seems like it is the way to go unless you are in a guild that kills princes, and have the better TC. I also noticed when I switched from 4-4-8 str/int/sta to int/sta/wis that my dps didn't change much, and sometimes it was lower (This is because you get to spam, or time, more CA's between hits, allowing you to be more efficient on auto attack).

The only down side to bare fists is the loss of stats, which really doesn't matter unless you are tanking imo. If you are tanking though, you can pull out the weapons to get the +sta +agl +deflection/parry/etc...

Raidi Sovin'faile · 12-04-2006, 10:05 AM

The problem with replying to a post in another thread is that it's taken out of context.I was replying specifically to the quote "you need 60+ DR weapons". That's info from pre-change. After the change, the same weapons have been moved down to about 57-60 DR (previously being 60-63 DR). You can still exceed unarmed with the same weapons, the DR is just a bit different now.And especially with adornments, having a good fabled weapon will start to out damage.One issue is that it may be different between Monks and Bruisers because of the haste factor. As a bruiser, I have very little self haste (+10 from equipment only), so it may end up mixing better with my combat arts. My procs hurt from it though, so who knows.... get some decent adornments and you could be doing much better.Adornments-wise though, nothing can compare to have HP or Power drain effects on your weapons... damage is one thing, but being able to proc 120+ power heal 2.0 times per minute (modifiable by haste, so it can be like 4.0 times per minute, so each procing once per 15s!!)... that's just a heckuva lot of bonus for us power slurping Fighter classes...

KazzySoJaz · 12-04-2006, 07:50 PM

Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:
The problem with replying to a post in another thread is that it's taken out of context.

I was replying specifically to the quote "you need 60+ DR weapons". That's info from pre-change. After the change, the same weapons have been moved down to about 57-60 DR (previously being 60-63 DR). You can still exceed unarmed with the same weapons, the DR is just a bit different now.

And especially with adornments, having a good fabled weapon will start to out damage.

One issue is that it may be different between Monks and Bruisers because of the haste factor. As a bruiser, I have very little self haste (+10 from equipment only), so it may end up mixing better with my combat arts. My procs hurt from it though, so who knows.... get some decent adornments and you could be doing much better.

Adornments-wise though, nothing can compare to have HP or Power drain effects on your weapons... damage is one thing, but being able to proc 120+ power heal 2.0 times per minute (modifiable by haste, so it can be like 4.0 times per minute, so each procing once per 15s!!)... that's just a heckuva lot of bonus for us power slurping Fighter classes...

The only times I had problem with power was in poor group setups. If you are efficient with your class, power should not be an issue (as a monk, afterall this is the monk forum). Also, I would not say go bare handed as a bruiser, because I do not see it being worthwhile without the haste that us monks have(had).

Not having the adornments in the weapon slots does suck, and does make the bare fisted option less viable, but hopefully SoE will get creative and allow us to have something in our weapon slots, or able to have the same type of augments(adornments) on the hand slot. (IMO)

I am a retired monk though so eh... just my 2cp...

Almeric_CoS · 12-04-2006, 09:21 PM

/cry

I just gave up my STR line this weekend. The DPS is huge, and I'm going to miss it terribly, but I'm called upon to tank so often that I needed to go with a stronger tanking build. I'm going to miss it, especially since my best weapon is Grizzlefazzle which, while awesome stat-wise (gain a couple hundred hitpoints to tank with), has a craptacular animation SMILEY

Xxooo-Coav · 12-05-2006, 09:14 PM

With weapon augments, I did not notice much of an 'overall' dps change. Yes, the autoattack dmg went down some, but with as often as I proc (1 weapon has 2 dmg procs, and other has 1 proc), I seem to proc 5-6 times a fight, which seems to make up for the minor dps loss. Not to mention when soloing, the stat gain from having weapons again makes up for it as well.

For tanking, if you have the AA, put them into Deflection/Parry/Riposte options... I have 7 in Deflection and 6 in Parry (I think), and it raised my overall avoidance 8% (from 47.? to 55.2 (base)).

11-28-2006, 07:54 AM	#2
RSZ Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	Bayne wrote: With the changes to how stats work and the implimentation of Adornments, is the STR still the choice of DPS monks? IMO it wasn't viable to begin with and even less now.

11-30-2006, 09:10 PM	#7
Xxooo-Coav Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Permafrost/Venekor Posts: 173	Raidi Sovin'faile wrote: Quested can't have adornments. Try putting and adornment on the Katar of the Winds. I have the higher DR Twin Calamities and the Katar of the Four Winds, and I still parse better with Str 4,5,8. I don't have a decent adornment on my TC yet, but regardless, it's gonna take two fabled weapons to beat unarmed with the strength line. I'm talking at least 55+ DR with adornments. Katar of the winds is only 50 DR, and Soulspur is someplace in the high 40s... The power proc on Soulspur is very nice, but regardless it can't be adorned, so it's a major loss in damage vs unarmed. Then again, I'm a bruiser... maybe our unarmed damage is better than monks. Due to the fact I have yet to acquire any DW weapon over DR 47, I have stuck with the STR AA (unarmed). If I add my pathetic weapons, my dps drops dramatically (from 400ish hit to 250hit). I do have Staff of the Flapping Wing, but even that hits a bit less than my attacks combined. Until then, STR AA line is still very much a viable option, even with the loss of stats. __________________

12-03-2006, 05:39 PM	#10
KazzySoJaz General Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 213	For those who missed my post in another thread, regarding this same matter (three of them up recently with same question don't people use search?) To add to what I said below, katar of the four wind blows... highest dmg TC and Bonetooth Skewer before EoF were only a tiny tiny bit better and not consistantly (@ most 30 dps better, and at times a hundred or so worse). I used Str line for months and months before EoF, until I got my 63 (now 60.5) dmg rating TC. Str 4-4-8, Int 4-4-8, and Sta 4-4-8 are now the best DPS setup IMO. The only thing you lose is some str, which is almost meaningless with the curve and adornments. And now my reply fromt his thread... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=38959 Raidi Sovin'faile wrote: It's closer to ~57 DR now, after the reduction from the big combat update. Maybe 55 DR if you have level appropriate damage adornments. That's still fairly high... I don't think there's a Legendary drop out there that high on a dual wield, so we are looking at at least fabled. I don't know where you got the 57 dmg rating thing from, but I am hitting the same as I was pre-EoF with bare fists. Seems like it is the way to go unless you are in a guild that kills princes, and have the better TC. I also noticed when I switched from 4-4-8 str/int/sta to int/sta/wis that my dps didn't change much, and sometimes it was lower (This is because you get to spam, or time, more CA's between hits, allowing you to be more efficient on auto attack). The only down side to bare fists is the loss of stats, which really doesn't matter unless you are tanking imo. If you are tanking though, you can pull out the weapons to get the +sta +agl +deflection/parry/etc...

12-04-2006, 07:50 PM	#12
KazzySoJaz General Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 213	Raidi Sovin'faile wrote: The problem with replying to a post in another thread is that it's taken out of context. I was replying specifically to the quote "you need 60+ DR weapons". That's info from pre-change. After the change, the same weapons have been moved down to about 57-60 DR (previously being 60-63 DR). You can still exceed unarmed with the same weapons, the DR is just a bit different now. And especially with adornments, having a good fabled weapon will start to out damage. One issue is that it may be different between Monks and Bruisers because of the haste factor. As a bruiser, I have very little self haste (+10 from equipment only), so it may end up mixing better with my combat arts. My procs hurt from it though, so who knows.... get some decent adornments and you could be doing much better. Adornments-wise though, nothing can compare to have HP or Power drain effects on your weapons... damage is one thing, but being able to proc 120+ power heal 2.0 times per minute (modifiable by haste, so it can be like 4.0 times per minute, so each procing once per 15s!!)... that's just a heckuva lot of bonus for us power slurping Fighter classes... The only times I had problem with power was in poor group setups. If you are efficient with your class, power should not be an issue (as a monk, afterall this is the monk forum). Also, I would not say go bare handed as a bruiser, because I do not see it being worthwhile without the haste that us monks have(had). Not having the adornments in the weapon slots does suck, and does make the bare fisted option less viable, but hopefully SoE will get creative and allow us to have something in our weapon slots, or able to have the same type of augments(adornments) on the hand slot. (IMO) I am a retired monk though so eh... just my 2cp...

12-04-2006, 09:21 PM	#13
Almeric_CoS The L.G. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 381	/cry I just gave up my STR line this weekend. The DPS is huge, and I'm going to miss it terribly, but I'm called upon to tank so often that I needed to go with a stronger tanking build. I'm going to miss it, especially since my best weapon is Grizzlefazzle which, while awesome stat-wise (gain a couple hundred hitpoints to tank with), has a craptacular animation __________________ Almeric's Blog: He doesn't know the meaning of the word "concise!"

11-23-2006, 01:01 AM	#1
Bayne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 150	With the changes to how stats work and the implimentation of Adornments, is the STR still the choice of DPS monks?

11-29-2006, 06:21 AM	#3
Sslarrga Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 188	The only situation where I would see str still being viable. Is if you are a Bruiser that is planning on specing for the riposte AA in EoF. In which case you'd want to spec for 4-4-8-8 Str and 4-4-8-8 Int in order to get as many ripostes as you can. Otherwise, the only other situation it is still viable is while leveling up to avoid having to replace your weapons constantly. Warrior's getting up to +86% DA is far superiour to brawlers 96% DA as it scales with weapon quality. 80 DR one hander +86% DA (more with the right gear and set items) is at least 148 DR compared to the best DW combo coming out to around 125 DR. Joy. Or the Strength AA at around 110-ish DR with DA. Yeah, strength AA is pretty much useless. Regards, Croaker Message Edited by Sslarrga on 11-28-2006 05:21 PM

11-29-2006, 10:41 AM	#4
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	Warriors get 76% DA from their AA. Dunno if they get anymore elsewhere or not, but that's all the AA gives (I've played my bro's Zerker).Also, you say "pretty much useless", except that 110 DR is still better than what any non-fabled Monks out there have. Sure, it's not the best.. but unless you are a monk that's going around sporting fabled dual wielders, Strength line will be better for you. And it will be better than anything else up until then. The second ability (debuffing crush mitigation on target, maintainable) does more for damage than Eagle Spin would if you used Dual Wields, so overall the line itself does better than anything except Fabled.I myself have only one of my Twin Calamities, and can't afford to purchase a Fist of Pain or whatever off the broker yet, so I'm sticking with Strength line until then. I still outparse, and beat other Brawlers in duels with my bare hands, so I must be doing something right.

11-29-2006, 03:44 PM	#5
Sslarrga Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 188	I would use Soulspur and Katar of the four Winds (if I remember the name correctly) both easily quested legendary over 4-4-8 or even 4-8-8 str. The loss of DPS is minor assuming you spec 4-4-8 Sta, Wis, Int when using DW weapons over for example 4-4-8 Str, Sta, Int, or Str, Wis, Int or Str, Sta, Wis. In addition you gain the ability to put adornments on the weapons, and you gain the stats from the weapon, and you gain hps and power from the weapons. Not to mention that Soulspur got a huge upgrade going from a 3% proc to a 9% proc with the launch of EoF. So yeah, I'm still going with Str. AA line being virtually useless except for a Bruiser going for Riposte/Stoneskin AA. Or in the case of leveling up to avoid frequent weapon upgrades. Then again there's absolutely nothing wrong with going Str to roleplay a traditional asian unarmed martial artist. Regards, Croaker, Deaths Door blah blah blah...

11-30-2006, 03:34 AM	#6
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	Quested can't have adornments. Try putting and adornment on the Katar of the Winds. I have the higher DR Twin Calamities and the Katar of the Four Winds, and I still parse better with Str 4,5,8. I don't have a decent adornment on my TC yet, but regardless, it's gonna take two fabled weapons to beat unarmed with the strength line. I'm talking at least 55+ DR with adornments. Katar of the winds is only 50 DR, and Soulspur is someplace in the high 40s... The power proc on Soulspur is very nice, but regardless it can't be adorned, so it's a major loss in damage vs unarmed. Then again, I'm a bruiser... maybe our unarmed damage is better than monks.

12-03-2006, 10:40 AM	#8
Jobeson Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 127	invest in the shoulder augment to give you the + damage for every one of your attacks. It greatly ups the damage from the str AA line. True you will not have the weapon augments but with the rate your fists spam attacks you will not care. I believe its around + 100 damage every swing. Yes it works for weapons too but with the high double attacks from no weapons it will improve the str dps even more. Im going weapons myself. I have one twin need to find another lol

12-03-2006, 12:15 PM	#9
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	Strange that you post that now, consider it was fixed more than a few days ago to be the reactive damage it was supposed to be. No more proc'ing 100 damage per attack.

12-04-2006, 10:05 AM	#11
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	The problem with replying to a post in another thread is that it's taken out of context.I was replying specifically to the quote "you need 60+ DR weapons". That's info from pre-change. After the change, the same weapons have been moved down to about 57-60 DR (previously being 60-63 DR). You can still exceed unarmed with the same weapons, the DR is just a bit different now.And especially with adornments, having a good fabled weapon will start to out damage.One issue is that it may be different between Monks and Bruisers because of the haste factor. As a bruiser, I have very little self haste (+10 from equipment only), so it may end up mixing better with my combat arts. My procs hurt from it though, so who knows.... get some decent adornments and you could be doing much better.Adornments-wise though, nothing can compare to have HP or Power drain effects on your weapons... damage is one thing, but being able to proc 120+ power heal 2.0 times per minute (modifiable by haste, so it can be like 4.0 times per minute, so each procing once per 15s!!)... that's just a heckuva lot of bonus for us power slurping Fighter classes...

12-05-2006, 09:14 PM	#14
Xxooo-Coav Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Permafrost/Venekor Posts: 173	With weapon augments, I did not notice much of an 'overall' dps change. Yes, the autoattack dmg went down some, but with as often as I proc (1 weapon has 2 dmg procs, and other has 1 proc), I seem to proc 5-6 times a fight, which seems to make up for the minor dps loss. Not to mention when soloing, the stat gain from having weapons again makes up for it as well. For tanking, if you have the AA, put them into Deflection/Parry/Riposte options... I have 7 in Deflection and 6 in Parry (I think), and it raised my overall avoidance 8% (from 47.? to 55.2 (base)). __________________