Is there an Avoidance/Defense cap?

[Cusashorn]

I was just in the Halls of Fate with a few guildies. a 70 Conj, a  70 Necro, a 65 Fury, and a 69 Guardian. I was tanking so I switched over to my defensive buffs and equipment. I'm also going defensive with Achievement points. I'm 4-4-4-7-8 in Agility (waiting for one last point the Defense skill) and 4-4-4-8 in Stamina.

 

With all my defense buffs up, and all the +Defense, +Deflection, +Parry equipment I have, my avoidance reaches 74.9%.

 

 

 

Thats when I noticed something interesting. I switched from my Orb of the Warrior to my Dragonscale Earrings. The orb has +4 defense and is one of my more needed defensive items for that reason. When I switched between the two, my avoidance value did not change. It remained 74.9% with both items.

 

Now If I turn off my defensive stance, the avoidance value between the two items becomes apparent... but with defensive stance on, I get stuck at 74.9% and the only way to raise beyond that is with group buffs.

[Asheng]

there is a defense cap, after 420 skill you won't see avoidance change There is no avoidance cap, though its 80% vs a lvl 70. so for lvl 74 you need more.Now im not sure if having 430 defense vs a lvl 74 makes a difference or not.

[Gungo]

presumably 430 defense vs a lvl 74 should add mroe to defense, because afaik there is no skill cap. But there is a defense skill % cap. afaik defense skill caps at 70% vs a blue or higher mob, 80% vs a green mob. Moorgard stated somethign to this effect prior. But yes vs lvl 70 mobs no one notices any improvment over 420 skill in defense. Defense is the eaist avoid skill to raise. Defelction is the second eaiset to raise for a brawler parry is the third. You had both a guard and a conj (or necro) in group. Both which raise defense alot. Our defensive stance raises both defense and defelction (no parry). Most of our items have defense or deflection ( a few have parry). Few class can buff other peoples parry (dirges are the only ones that come to mind). I chose 4/4/8 stamina line and 4/8/8/5/8 in the intellignece lien for this reason. It gives me a nice stamina pulling debuff a nice 24% ~200 dma proc. An extra 3 sec stun attack that allwos me to use backstab tanking. a 22% constant crit rate. 5 ranks in parry, and a 1400 (over 80% miti when it goes off) mitigation buff with 97% (99% w moa neck)crit chance when i hit below 30% health which happens alot when i tank or when flame(other bruiser in guild) off tanks epics or when flame draws agro in raids =p. I was pretty impressed when our guild used a bruiser(mostly) and monk tank gorenaire. Was a great strat that completely controled that fight.  

[Cusashorn]

Ummm. ok. I'm not really sure what the heck either of you two just said, but I have one further question, although it's just a hypothetical.

 

If it were somehow possible to achieve 100% avoidance in the game (not using Tsunami), would that mean that they would have 100% avoidance against higher level mobs as compaired to lower and equal ones? I would think no, but I"m just wondering.

[EasternKing]

avoidence is broken down into 3 checks

so even if your display is shpwing 100% avoidence you wont avoid 100%

a brawler has base / deflection / parry

so if you had the 100% your asking about ...it would probably look like this on a mouse over .....base / 50% / deflection 30% / parry 30%

so when a mob attacks it checks a base roll first ...so in this example ...its a 50 / 50 chance to avoid ...then if it fails it goes to the next check ...if that fails it checks again,  if that fails it his and you then mitigate the damage

defense as stated caps at 420 ...once you have hit that number the skill will do nothing else for you

all said highest avoid i have ever seen in game is 89% and that was the broken warrior line ...and it looked like ...base 40% block 70% parry 25% ...the block being capped at 70% ment that most mobs couldnt hit almost like having 100% avoidence

hope that helps you out.

[Code2501]

Actually, if it were possible to get 100% avoidance one of either base, deflection or parry would need to be 100% regardless of the other two. simply because if all three were even 99.99% there would still be a fraction of a percent chance that an attack could get through all three checks.

[Rrawl]

Naggash has the right of it. Getting your defense skill over 420 does nothing, against any level of mob. The same would be true of Deflection and Parry, although I don't _think_ it's possible to get to 420, much less past it, with those skills at this time.

There is a soft cap of 70% on each component of avoidance... So, you'll never avoid, deflect, or parry more then 70% of hits... But it can help you to surpass those soft caps to cushion against the penalties of higher con mobs, you're just not going to do it by raising defense, deflection, or parry skills over 420. This is why a lot of tanking focused Monks are going with INT and STA to raise parry and deflection, since you can cap Defense without putting any AA's into it.

Message Edited by Rrawl on 05-18-2006 09:39 AM

[Sslarrga]

Actually it checks deflection first, then parry, then defense last.  Check any parse logs of a brawler and you'll see well over twice as many deflections as misses vs an even con or higher.  Against lower cons, parry seems to increase greatly in importance.

 

Anyway, there is an over "general" cap of 80% avoidance in the game.  However, it isn't the overall avoidance that is capped, each indiviual value is cap adjusted such that your overall cap should fall around 80%.

 

When Warriors and Bards were benefitting from the Block AA bug (which capped the block %) it wouldn't be uncommon to see avoidance values vs same level opponents of around 81-83% in the display.

 

Due to the way avoidance is done in the game it's not exactly easy to cap it at exactly 80%

 

In MT groups it's fairly easy to get mine capped at 79.6% avoidance.  Even then I try to get as much as possible due to the fact that the displayed value is vs a solo even con fighter type creature.  Against higher level opponents, epics, nameds, heroics (all cumulative) it will be significantly lower.

 

Regards,

Croaker

[Cusashorn]

Ahh. I'll check my skills when the servers come back up, but thanks for the explanation.

[Gungo]

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Rrawl wrote:

Naggash has the right of it. Getting your defense skill over 420 does nothing, against any level of mob. The same would be true of Deflection and Parry, although I don't _think_ it's possible to get to 420, much less past it, with those skills at this time.

There is a soft cap of 70% on each component of avoidance... So, you'll never avoid, deflect, or parry more then 70% of hits... But it can help you to surpass those soft caps to cushion against the penalties of higher con mobs, you're just not going to do it by raising defense, deflection, or parry skills over 420. This is why a lot of tanking focused Monks are going with INT and STA to raise parry and deflection, since you can cap Defense without putting any AA's into it.

Message Edited by Rrawl on 05-18-2006 09:39 AM

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Um are you saying 420 skill cap is a hard cap vs any lvl?

 

And then saying 70% is a soft cap?

Afaik 70% is hard capped vs a particular lvl.

[Cusashorn]

Well now... this is unusual. I'm checking my skills and it says my defense is only 414... hmmm.

Message Edited by Cusashorn on 05-18-2006 11:43 AM

[Gaige]

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Rrawl wrote:

Naggash has the right of it. Getting your defense skill over 420 does nothing, against any level of mob. The same would be true of Deflection and Parry, although I don't _think_ it's possible to get to 420, much less past it, with those skills at this time.  I'm pretty close to 420 deflection.  I still need 16 parry though for 420 buffed.

There is a soft cap of 70% on each component of avoidance... So, you'll never avoid, deflect, or parry more then 70% of hits... But it can help you to surpass those soft caps to cushion against the penalties of higher con mobs, you're just not going to do it by raising defense, deflection, or parry skills over 420. This is why a lot of tanking focused Monks are going with INT and STA to raise parry and deflection, since you can cap Defense without putting any AA's into it.

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There is no overall avoidance cap.  Defense, deflection and parry cap at 70% each.

[Rrawl]

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Gaige wrote:

 I'm pretty close to 420 deflection.  I still need 16 parry though for 420 buffed.

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I'd love to know what all gear you've got to get Deflection and Parry that high. Obviously you've got 8 points into the INT and STA lines AA's to boost em as well...   How close to 420 Deflection are ya? (Maybe it is possible to reach, probably at the loss of too many other stats... Bonecleave and Marrowgore come to mind...)

[Gaige]

I only have 4 into INT and STA defl/parry lines.

I'll post a screenshot of my skills window and gear next time I tank Gore.

[abdcefg]

Seen myself achieve close to 86% avoidance grouped.  defence was 420+ deflection 420 and parry just over 400, agi was around 380.  

Deflection was 50%, assume that is the cap as the skill was bang on 420

Base was just over 52/53%, think i could push this up a little further capping agi

Parry was around 30%, Hardest one to get up, 8 points in int line helps but i realy on grp buffs to raise this one.

Taking a wild guess, to hit the 'avoidance cap' i would say u needed 420 defence/parry/deflection/510 agi and looking at the numbers i had i would guess it would show around 88-90%.  All i was really missing was parry i dont think the extra 150 agi would make that much of an improvement.

[Rrawl]

Does raising agility raise base avoidance directly or raise the defense skill... I always thought it raised the Defense skill, so I that skill is already capped, does buffing agility actually still raise avoidance?

 

 

[Code2501]

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Gaige wrote:

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Rrawl wrote:

Naggash has the right of it. Getting your defense skill over 420 does nothing, against any level of mob. The same would be true of Deflection and Parry, although I don't _think_ it's possible to get to 420, much less past it, with those skills at this time.  I'm pretty close to 420 deflection.  I still need 16 parry though for 420 buffed.

There is a soft cap of 70% on each component of avoidance... So, you'll never avoid, deflect, or parry more then 70% of hits... But it can help you to surpass those soft caps to cushion against the penalties of higher con mobs, you're just not going to do it by raising defense, deflection, or parry skills over 420. This is why a lot of tanking focused Monks are going with INT and STA to raise parry and deflection, since you can cap Defense without putting any AA's into it.

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There is no overall avoidance cap.  Defense, deflection and parry cap at 70% each.

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If thats the case then the overall avoidance cap would be 97.2%

100 attacks - 70% defended(70) = 30

30 attacks - 70% deflected(21) = 9

9 attacks - 70% parried(6.3) = 2.7 attacks get through.

[Gaige]

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Rrawl wrote:

I'd love to know what all gear you've got to get Deflection and Parry that high. Obviously you've got 8 points into the INT and STA lines AA's to boost em as well...   How close to 420 Deflection are ya? (Maybe it is possible to reach, probably at the loss of too many other stats... Bonecleave and Marrowgore come to mind...)

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Here, this was offtanking Halls I forgot to get a screenshot when I was tanking Gore:

And my persona screen:

That was using a mix of my dps/tank gear but all of my deflection/parry gear.  I normally have around 430 defense and like 4 less deflection.  I was just trying to see what my max deflection/parry was.

Also like I said this was offtank not tanking so my HPs are a bit low as is my sta.

 

[EasternKing]

out of curiosity gaige what are your %'s to :  base /  deflection / parry  ?

while your raid buffed to 423 defense / 415 deflection / 414 parry.

[zabor]

it should be like this: defence and deflection at a bit over 50%, and parry between 15 and 20%.That 83.6% avoidance should be quite close to the cap.Since deflection, parry and defense are capped at 420, and agi at 520. Gaige is only missing 5 deflection and 4 parry, which would add another 3-4% i guess.

[Gaige]

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TheEasternKing wrote:

out of curiosity gaige what are your %'s to :  base /  deflection / parry  ?

while your raid buffed to 423 defense / 415 deflection / 414 parry.

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I didn't look EK sorry, was in the middle of raiding   Next time I'll try to grab [Removed for Content] of those though.

[Gaige]

Update:

This was on Tarinax.  Only had 395 agility though so my overall avoidance was only 82.5%.  I imagne it'd be closer to 84/85 or something with maxed agility also.

I still stand to gain 7 deflection (Hand of Destruction) and 8 parry (Arcane Enchanted Skullcap) from gear too. 

So capping defense/deflection/parry is very possible in KoS.