As a tank I suck. Some advice please....

[waldaz]

Hi

 

I have solo'd to 42 exclusively. Last night i mentored a friends Fury and i quite frankly sucked as a tank. I have read the FAQ at the top of the forum and i am still not entirely sure.  What stance am i better of using (rather than Whispering Blessing), what does Martial Focus really do and do i need to have it on, how does intercede/rescue really work and do i need to have the person i am rescuing targetted first (if i think it works how it does).

 

Equipment wise i am almost full Tier5 ( or is it 4?? lvl40-50) legendary armour and weapons so that's not a problem just my crappy tactics. Any SHOULD HAVE CA upgrades that would help?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[selch]

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waldazie wrote:

Hi

 

I have solo'd to 42 exclusively. Last night i mentored a friends Fury and i quite frankly sucked as a tank. I have read the FAQ at the top of the forum and i am still not entirely sure.  What stance am i better of using (rather than Whispering Blessing), what does Martial Focus really do and do i need to have it on, how does intercede/rescue really work and do i need to have the person i am rescuing targetted first (if i think it works how it does).

 

Equipment wise i am almost full Tier5 ( or is it 4?? lvl40-50) legendary armour and weapons so that's not a problem just my crappy tactics. Any SHOULD HAVE CA upgrades that would help?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

---

First of all..

 

There is no healer that cannot take aggro from you easily. So assuming Fury, healing you + nuking own, easily can get aggro from any tank so FIRST rule "healer needs to learn about hate management"

 

Secondly, what you have to do is, using your Dragon Advance (that adds aggro proc to your every hit) and taunt as much as soon as cooldown timer off. I personally use Area taunt first, area attack as second then if possible at least hitting a few times to each mob. That will keep aggro probably a long time on you, either way, using Area taunts and casual taunt on mobs that I feel I didnt touch much frequently.

 

Use defensive stance first till you get 'spider stance' if you are tanking, that will reduce need for healing to you (which also means lesser hate on healer)

 

 

Well to explain a little further,  what increases aggro...

 

Value of total Damage done to mob + Values of taunts if that value is greater than Value of total Heals done to person who is at mobs aggro list, then should be no problem.

 

If mobs getting hard on healer, they need to use their basic escape plans and try not to do "too much offensive attacks" to help you get aggro easily. (root, stun, decrease hate) and if you focus on mob attacking healer then you would get aggro back too..  Rescue would be "last" option. Use it wisely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message Edited by selch on 03-07-200605:31 AM

[Nemi]

Couple of quick tips:

Buffs

Sweeping Crane - Defensive stance: Until you are more comfortable with tanking, stay in this stance

Quiety Purity - Group haste: Help out your melee dps friends with this buff

Control Breathing - Self buff: Increases your power pool, melee dps and spell resistance

Dragon Advance - Taunt buff: This single spell is your ability to tank

Martial Discipline - Avoidance buff: Cast this on the person most likely to pull aggro from you - Either high DPS or healer

 

Tactics - Single mob, two mobs

Pull the mob you want to kill first of the two mobs with a ranged weapon, while back peddaling to the group use your AoE taunt  - Focus Energy - and position the mobs for the group. You want to position the mobs so that any pet classes are fighting at the back of the mob. Next press TAB to switch to the other mob and use your single target taunt Silent Threat. Loose off a couple of quick DPS arts Biting Mantis and Diving Dragon, then switch back to your original mob and continue meleeing it (your taunt buff Dragon Advance will be proccing to keep aggro). Use only your stun Combat Arts to save power, these being - Charging Tiger, Winters Talon and Biting Mantis. When your single target taunt recycles, TAB to the other mob and use it, then TAB back and continue until the mobs are dead.

You should not lose aggro using this and I wouldn't use your AoE taunt Focus Energy after the initial pull, Why? Because its 20 second refresh and it's far better to save it for adds or the next pull. If an add wanders into the camp, Focus Energy the encounter straight away and you will hold aggro.

If you get an add then its time to put up Walk Like A Mountain and cycle between the targets as described below.

Tactics - 3 or more mobs

Again pull the mob you want to kill and hold aggro on first with a ranged weapon. Back peddle and use your AoE taunt  - Focus Energy - and position the mobs for the group as before. This is where it gets harder. What you need to do is press TAB and use your single target taunt Silent Threat, press TAB and fire off two of your combat arts, press TAB and 2 more and so on as you cycle through the mobs to arrive back at the one you pulled. Your AoE taunt should have recycled round about now so use that. Once your CAs begin to recycle then you need to start the TAB cycle again. Don't waste CA's on a mob if you use Silent Threat on it, you need to even out the punishment and get Dragon Advance to proc to maintain aggro. Once a mob dies, try and target the mob you feel you have the least Hate generated on. With experience you'll get a feel for it.

 

Hope that helps, let me know how you get on or have any more questions.

[nobunaga_x]

What stance you use depends on your group and what you are killing.  If you are duoing and taking on arrow down or even no arrows then use offensive.  If your taking arrow up's use the middle stance.   I would never use defensive with just you and a healer because you will have a hard time hitting anything over blue.

[waldaz]

Cheers folks....forgot all about Dragon Advance..DOH!

 

And you think Quiet Purity instead of Everburining Flame at Master II?  I know EB is self only but ....

[Deathspell]

I'd like to point out that controlling aggro is a GROUP EFFORT and not solely for tanks.For groups of mobs it's also very important that everybody in your group assists you, this means that they target you and this way the group attacks the same mob (the one YOU are targetting).You can be the best tank in the world but if your group does not assist you and everybody starts picking his own mob, then you cannot control aggro.

[waldaz]

I agree. I do come from a background of EQ1 for 3 years and WoW. In EQ i played a shaman and a mage in WoW but never a tank...fortuntely the guys i end up playing with a MMO veterans too. I just had no idea what i should be doing last night

[Wildfury77]

Roll a swashie.......heheSeriously though - in most clefts groups i'll be picked as tank over a monk any day (lvl 57 swash atm) Why?I have 50% avoidance + much higher mitigation in defensive stance - my taunt is master 1. And since i have gone down stamina AA line i have much higher hitpoints, and AoE taunt and i use a good shield. For holding agro i have great DPS and my 2 taunts. If a swash turns off his evade proc and doesn't hate transfer - he will always pull agro anyway....I'm sure monks can tank but i'd rather have a zerker/guard any day of the week. I am open to being persuaded otherwise and would like to here you guys disprove me....i may learn something new Thanks SHADOWSCREAM 57swashie/59jeweler (Befallen)

[Nemi]

Quiety Purity and Everburning Flame are two different spells and can be stacked. Personally I always have Everburning Flame running regardless of the HP drain. The haste will generate aggro for you, only time I'll drop it is on a bad pull and I need every HP.

 

 

[Nemi]

*hammers sign up*

[ DO NOT FEED THE TROLL ]

[Lalerin]

/em reads Nemi's sign and agreees

[waldaz]

Thanks so far.

 

Atm i have 2 T5 legendary DW weapons...is it worth having a T5 legendary 2HB bo staff (Pristine Imbued Cedar Bo Staff) made for when tanking?

[MadBarman]

Dual wielding does more damage and has more stats usually so stick with them. The most useful thing you can learn is when to use which stances.Stances are instant cast/recast use this is swithc during fights. A good way to starts is use offensive stance for some quick hat e generation then switch depending on how well your doing and how much dmage is getting thru. Brawlers get an extra advantage in our combined stances after a certain level. Mixing all 3 in during a fight can really make a difference or it could kill you

[Nemi]

The DW will do more damage than the 2hb but the advantage used to be that 2hb would have less ripostes. Couple of LU#'s back they reduced the riposte chance for dual wielding fast weapons, whether the two are now equal I don't know.

If you were going to get dual wield then I'd get weapons that either do slash or pierce damage for when you come up against crushing resistant mobs.

Personally I prefer the bigger, slower hits and any reduction in riposte chance is welcome.

 

EDIT: Plus it's usually cheaper to buy a 2hb over 2 x dual wielding.

Message Edited by Nemi on 03-07-200603:42 PM

[Tarch]

With all my self buffs and martial discipline on the healer, in offensive stance, with everburning flame, I can hold aggro against a healer, ranger, brigand, whatever it maybe just using auto attack. Just make sure you have dragon stance on and decent attack speed.If you are talking about a big boss (Epic/ Named Heroic ^^^ that is white or up), throw on deffensive stance (Body Like Water line) and taunt every heroic opportunity. When i'm playing main tank to a raid, I have my hotbar setup like so: Heroic Opportunity, Low Power Punch, Highest Taunt (always at master 1), Encounter AE Taunt (Always at master 1), Intercede, Heal, then my normal combat arts and for long fights I simply use the first 3 Buttons: Heroic, then Starter Combo punch, then HO Finisher (Taunt), and I don't lose aggro.If it's an epic with a group of mobs I always save jolting hands + my AE attack and use Hands then AE (Having already used my AE Encounter taunt). I usually drop Rescue on the boss so that when I'm tanking the adds he won't go off and oneshot any of the healers. Then, once all the adds are dead the boss is pretty easy.Quick List: Keep Self buffed at all times, Matrial Discipline at all times, Offensive stance vs non-named ^^^ Heroics, defensive against Named ^^^ Heroics+Epics. Always use Dragon's Advance selbuff, try and keep it adept 3 at least, it's invaluable.Hope that helps.

Message Edited by Tarch on 03-07-200608:23 AM

Message Edited by Tarch on 03-07-200608:23 AM

[Maker]

Dragon Advance at Master II helps a lot.  As does having your taunts at master.  I tank all the time, and though my fury likes to try to steal aggro for fun, he can seldom hold it for long if he manages to get it. 

 I usually pull with a hex on the highest level mob, then AOE taunt, followed by our AE attack CA (can't remember name).  At this point I have pretty good aggro.  If the mobs are easy I'll start tanking in the offensive stance.  If I know it's going to be tough I'll start in defensive.  However, during the fight I will usually switch a bit depending on mana levels and the amount of DPS we need. If health is not an issue keep Everburning up as well.  If you do lose aggro switch to offensive and nail the mob with some CA's.  With Dragon Advance proccing you should get it back fairly quickly.  Of course, as noted above, its also up to your group members to back off a bit and let you take the aggro back.  If your DPSer decides to panick and go all out it's just going to take longer to get the mob of him. 

Also, if you plan on tanking try to get your stamina as high as possible, cause you're going to need hit points.  Full legendary armor is also a big boon.  Our avoidance rocks, but when named mobs do end up hitting us, you'll notice it real fast.  Then its a matter of timing your CA's and making sure you have enough mana to heal yourself if needed and blast of some more taunts.

As for plate over monk as a tank, never seen a need.  One gets hit twice as much but half as hard, the other gets hit half as much but twice as hard...as long as the group knows how to  adapt their styles for their tank type there should be no issue.  I haven't gotten into raiding, so I can't speak to those tanking scenarios, but for regular exp or quest groups Monks make aswesome tanks.  You just need some practice and the right techniques, just like any other tank.

[Wiou]

Last night i mentored a friends Fury and i quite frankly sucked as a tank.With only one other person in your a group, it is bad you cant keep aggro, if thats what you mean by crappy tank?What stance am i better of using (rather than Whispering Blessing)Your defensive stance. Look at the stances appropriate for your level and find the one that decreases crushing and attack and raises defense and mitigation. When tanking you should use this stance. You will later get a stance at 44 called spider stance that gives have the benefits of both offensive and defensive stances with no penalties. And dude - get adepts of the stances., what does Martial Focus really do and do i need to have it on,Been a long time since I used martial focus (its called something else now for me) but if its the wis/agi or whatever buff just keep it on...how does intercede/rescue really work and do i need to have the person i am rescuing targetted first (if i think it works how it does).Intercede you cast on someone you want to interCEDE The damage from. So say you click the priest in your group - you intercede and you have (whatever % chance the spell says) to take some of the damage of that attack from said mob.. if the mob is attacking the person you interceded (the priest)Rescue is a "get out a jail free card" for one of your groupmates. Im not sure EXACTLY how it works, but when one of your teammates are taking damage and shouldnt be, you can rescue (instant taunt) that will automatically raise you either one position in the hate list, or put you at the top.

 

Any SHOULD HAVE CA upgrades that would help?

 All of them.

[jdsmi]

Just my 2 copper...

Try to invest in masters or adept 3's of your stances and hate proc, your group taunt, and then your single target taunt. Also if you are facing a strong enemy, don't forget about about the mit increasing lines which temporarily root or stun you.

If you are in a small group, I use the balanced stance or sometimes the offensive stance, depending on what we're fighting. As a tank for larger groups I use the defensive stance. Also take into consideration which stance is your best(ie you have a master defensive but app 4s on the others).

As was previously mentioned, don't be afraid to switch targets and smack around each mob a bit. This is generally what a tank does, but it can take some practice. If you are in small groups though, I would recommend doing what is minimally required to keep the aggro of everything you are engaged with, as decreasing the number of mobs you're fighting by getting them killed quickly will generally help make small group battles go more smoothly. I'm also a fan of picking off the weakest enemies first and then moving on to the tougher ones, but that is something that is really just one's own choice. There are advantages any way you look at it.

Finally, gear is not everything, but staying upgraded sure can help. Mitigation is already at a handicap as a monk, so having as much as possible can make a difference. And of course, your weapons will serve you better when they pack more of a punch.

Message Edited by jdsmith on 03-08-200608:38 AM

[Drulak]

If you want to tank - forget about monks and roll a guardian   :smileyvery-happy:

Flamers beware , i am being extremely sarcastic here , due to my love of post LU13 Guardians

I love my Monk

[Nemi]

*banishes Drulak back to vile den of iniquity that is the Guardian board*

[lillin]

For the OP's question......

Simply play the game and put yourself in more tank situations, a FAQ gives an idea of what to do but expierence is the true teacher.

If you find yourself losing aggro in a group, switch to full dps stance and have your hate proc on.  This way your doing great dps that builds hate while procing tuants.  If healer cant keep up then switch to the tank/dps stance.  I rarely use the tank stance any more, even in KoS.  Some healers will have trouble at first trying to keep ya healed but they get the hang of it.

THere are so many little tricks our class can do it would honestly take all day to write em all.  So go play as a tank more and see if you come up with your own ways.  Playing as a tank once then saying you dont know how is fine but maybe playing as tank 2, 3, 100 times might teach you better then any of this chat can. =)

Good Luck