Dragoon's Reflexes (AGI Line)

[Sir_Halbarad]

Hi all

 

Finally got my 8 AA points and bought the last skill in the AGI Line: Dragoon's Reflexes.

 

This lets you parry for 12 seconds but stuns you...

 

And the stun part is different to the description of the skill: the description says you can't use any combat art while Reflexes is active. To me this means that you can still auto-attack, or am I reading this wrong.

 

If it really prevents any attack, the only use then would be for Raids after a bad spike.

 

Any MT's out there having Dragoon Reflexes want to share their views on it?

 

[Wabit]

i've not been too impressed by the ability, useful against gorenair and nice for training in PoA...  but i think it has alot to do with your MT group...  swashy is my only help with agro normaly, so that long without any CAs i really do have agro issues, if i had a dirge + coercer it would be alot more use too me...  my dps classes like walking the fine line between max dps and being dead...

but i also rarely use ToS (nice for eating vyemm or tarinax frontal)... 

[Kienn]

initailly when doing my AA i went WIS line (ofcourse) and AGI line but i wasn't too happy with the 12 sec of "save yourself loose hate cuz your semi-stunned so healers die" so my new thing i kept my WIS line to 4/4/8/8 to max dps and mitigation and now for the toy! i went with STR line 4/5/8/8 i have maxed Crit and hate gain. man its awsome to auto attack crit for 1200+ with a 1h and shield  :smileyvery-happy:  I also have a really nice 2h axe from Harla, so when wanting to dps its a nice way to go :smileyhappy:

 

i am toying with the idea of going 4/5/8/8 down the INT line to increase haste and parry that way i still get avoid and dps instead of the hate and dps. There are some nice hate gain gear ingame for us plate tanks

[Aaliamz]

Yes I went STR and WIS. The very thought of any amount of time not using CA's on a mob when jesters-capped brigands are chain dispatching makes me go into a cold sweat. When decently geared, no mobs in KoS hit hard enough to warrant the AA 'Tsunami' and hate is everything for the quick burn.

[TanRaistlyn]

I went down the agility line to start.  I normally have at the very least in my grp a Dirge if not a Coercer too.  I never have agro problems, and yes you still auto attack when using this skill.  Hit rescue, and then Reflexes and it has saved countless raids.  Some encounters I dont think my guild would have been able to beat without it.  Personally I think its the single greatest asset a MT could bring to a raid, Id sacrifice 200-300mitigation for it.

Its also great if MT goes down and you're OT, you can hit rescue then reflexes and give your healers time to adjust and target you for heals.  Also gives you time to reposition the mob.

Fights like the Goo Dragon in DT work out awesome using this skill...and any time a raid might get into trouble : I.E. pulling adds, crazy damage spike, etc.etc.

[Aaliamz]

I am not sure how to say this but... In my opinion, any guardian that claims that they never lose aggro on raid mobs is full of it. Either that or their DPS classes need to stop slacking. Also If you are fighting mem-wipe mobs like Tarinax (and killing them weekly) you need good aggro and every little bit helps. On mobs like the Curor Alluvium DPS is everything and flawless aggro managment is essential, again on the mobs that matter I would say hate is everything. I do agree however, if you have slow healers the Tsunami AA would be useful for offtanking/back up tanking. A lot of your AA descisions depend on the quality of not only you but the rest of your guild.

Message Edited by Aaliamzen on 05-16-2006 11:23 PM

[TanRaistlyn]

I have been too and fought Tarinax.  I still swear by the reflexes skill.  To each his own I suppose just giving my particular account.  I will stick by my statement tho, with a complete set of master Tuants (every single tuant creating skill) and grped with a coercer/dirge combo, I do not lose agro on mobs.  My raids parse currently after the proc nerf between 10-11k dps on average.  I do trust my people to not over extend themselves, and use their agro reducers at the right times.

Does agro stray every once in awhile? Yes it does.  Does it happen on any kind of frequency, or on crucial fights when everyone is paying close attention? No it does not.

[Aaliamz]

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Does agro stray every once in awhile? Yes it does.  Does it happen on any kind of frequency, or on crucial fights when everyone is paying close attention? No it does not.

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Fair comment. I have been told by numerous guardians recently that they never lose aggro and it is getting old.  Your DKP parse is impressive - sta line? Eh. Must remember not to post before work.

Message Edited by Aaliamzen on 05-17-2006 09:06 AM

[Lyrus]

His DPS Parse is for his entire raid, and is a pretty average number.

[Ratty31]

Just grab a cold forged BP, that way you get the benifits of the agi line(slightly longer recast but can use combat arts) and can spend points elsewhere.

[TanRaistlyn]

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Ratty31 wrote:
Just grab a cold forged BP, that way you get the benifits of the agi line(slightly longer recast but can use combat arts) and can spend points elsewhere.

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They sell those at the Qwuick E Mart? :smileyvery-happy:

I dont think I could give up the Black Lotus BP, the 675mitigation plus tons of stats/resists is just too lovely then going back to the coldforged stuff...If I remember correctly CFBP is 475mitigation??? Somewhere around there??

[Ratty31]

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TanRaistlyn wrote:

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Ratty31 wrote:
Just grab a cold forged BP, that way you get the benifits of the agi line(slightly longer recast but can use combat arts) and can spend points elsewhere.

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They sell those at the Qwuick E Mart? :smileyvery-happy:

I dont think I could give up the Black Lotus BP, the 675mitigation plus tons of stats/resists is just too lovely then going back to the coldforged stuff...If I remember correctly CFBP is 475mitigation??? Somewhere around there??

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You only need to wear it when you wanna cast the buff..then switch back

[Finedo]

5 Djinn masters and no BP yet =(

[KAM]

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TanRaistlyn wrote:

I went down the agility line to start.  I normally have at the very least in my grp a Dirge if not a Coercer too.  I never have agro problems, and yes you still auto attack when using this skill.  Hit rescue, and then Reflexes and it has saved countless raids.  Some encounters I dont think my guild would have been able to beat without it.  Personally I think its the single greatest asset a MT could bring to a raid, Id sacrifice 200-300mitigation for it.

Its also great if MT goes down and you're OT, you can hit rescue then reflexes and give your healers time to adjust and target you for heals.  Also gives you time to reposition the mob.

Fights like the Goo Dragon in DT work out awesome using this skill...and any time a raid might get into trouble : I.E. pulling adds, crazy damage spike, etc.etc.

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Not sure what game you're playing but you can't auto attack using it. Annoys me that when you cancel it from the buffs window the stun stays for full 12s duration .. probably will be fixed. Some more fights it's good for are villucide .. gnorble .. tarinax etc. Even if they don't fix the cancelling thing there is no way I'm dropping this AA. IMO most raid tanks would want to pick up this AA.

[Wabit]

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KAMiX wrote:

Some more fights it's good for are villucide .. gnorble .. tarinax etc.

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my agro on tarinax is horrid, memwipe + it feels like my taunts are all hitting for really low, and i can't hit him (yay i'll live but hes off chewing on some random person)...  villucide ya shouldn't need it against, hes the second easiest namd in the zone...  gnorble, can be usefull for one set of pets i guess...

i see it as more useful on the goo dragon (if your tanking the healthy), and gorenair (portal to a different floor), the charged presence to eat one of the debuffs, and split tanking vyemm and alzid for the person on alzid...

[KAM]

Don't know about second easiest .. all the other mobs are cake. But I have had problems a couple of times in stance of terror. Goo dragon was easy with 2 tank groups. Gorenair we use brawlers so they can tsunami/safefall down from top ledge. Charged presence we cure the debuff and alzid ... we've killed him with 5 people before not exactly a hard encounter. Just differences in raid strats I guess. Usually I wouldn't use it for all those mobs but it'll be there as a safety net if needed.

[TanRaistlyn]

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KAMiX wrote:

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TanRaistlyn wrote:

I went down the agility line to start.  I normally have at the very least in my grp a Dirge if not a Coercer too.  I never have agro problems, and yes you still auto attack when using this skill.  Hit rescue, and then Reflexes and it has saved countless raids.  Some encounters I dont think my guild would have been able to beat without it.  Personally I think its the single greatest asset a MT could bring to a raid, Id sacrifice 200-300mitigation for it.

Its also great if MT goes down and you're OT, you can hit rescue then reflexes and give your healers time to adjust and target you for heals.  Also gives you time to reposition the mob.

Fights like the Goo Dragon in DT work out awesome using this skill...and any time a raid might get into trouble : I.E. pulling adds, crazy damage spike, etc.etc.

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Not sure what game you're playing but you can't auto attack using it. Annoys me that when you cancel it from the buffs window the stun stays for full 12s duration .. probably will be fixed. Some more fights it's good for are villucide .. gnorble .. tarinax etc. Even if they don't fix the cancelling thing there is no way I'm dropping this AA.

IMO most raid tanks would want to pick up this AA.

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um.......last I used it I was very able to auto attack using it...it doesnt stun u, it just gives a 12 second recast to all ur skills.

[Athele]

who drops the Black lotus BP if i may ask ?  :smileyhappy:

[Mentin]

You cannot look exclusively on Dragoon's reflexes. You also must look at what the line gives you otherwise.

Fact is that the +defense from Dragoon's avoidance is next to useless. Gear and buffs pushes me way past the 420 defense skillcap, so any additions to defense from aa's is wasted.

Dragoon's cyclone can contribute to keeping aggro in a multimob situation, but contribution will be small and it is pretty restricted(mobs you face within melee range).

Dragoon Spin is useless since good spears are few and far between.

AGI is ok though.. it contributes valuable avoidance in particular to low-agi races.

I respecced away from AGI line to INT and gained some 5% avoidance and 11% haste. Kept 8 points in AGI though since I am a big and unagile troll For extreme raid utility STR line might be better though - if parry is capped by raid buffs.

[Urglu]

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Mentin wrote:

You cannot look exclusively on Dragoon's reflexes. You also must look at what the line gives you otherwise.

Fact is that the +defense from Dragoon's avoidance is next to useless. Gear and buffs pushes me way past the 420 defense skillcap, so any additions to defense from aa's is wasted.

Dragoon's cyclone can contribute to keeping aggro in a multimob situation, but contribution will be small and it is pretty restricted(mobs you face within melee range).

Dragoon Spin is useless since good spears are few and far between.

AGI is ok though.. it contributes valuable avoidance in particular to low-agi races.

I respecced away from AGI line to INT and gained some 5% avoidance and 11% haste. Kept 8 points in AGI though since I am a big and unagile troll For extreme raid utility STR line might be better though - if parry is capped by raid buffs.

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I love Dragoon Spin, I have a crafted spear I have hotkeyed just to use the AE, then I switch back [I do the same with my hammer for Belly Smash].  When adds or a bad peel comes along, having an extra AE attack to couple with Reinforcement is fantastic.  Spin + Plant and Besiege when Reinforcement is up means +3 hate positions.  Generally I get every mob that may have strayed with that combo.

[Lyrus]

Plant won't trigger Reinforcement since it doesn't deal damage. It's a blue background debuff that won't agro most mobs. Go to maj dul and hit it right next to a citizen as they walk and laugh as you root them and they don't attack back.

[mctiger3000]

i dont think i am doing any of the final 8 point aa so and  after hearing you cant taunt for 12 sec there no way i wasteing dat i rather just throw my supper buffs up they do basicly same thing so

[skye12]

Picked up this skill earler in the week:

 

1)  I could not auto-attack when this skill was engaged.  Therefore Reinforcement was not helpful.  Auto-attack button wasn't effected, but I was NOT swinging my weapon.  Tested several times over the course of 2 days.

 

2)  Loosing my % crit and % hate gain was horrid.  Maybe this skill would be useful if you only logged on your guard for MT/Raids, but if you also run groups and/or solo, personally I would choose something else.  I felt like a guard the day after LU13 after dropping the STR line.

 

3)  Most raid configurations can give you back the % hate you would normally loose by going AGI instead of STR.  However, most raid Healers can and do switch from MT to MA (or off tank) quickly enough to keep them up if MT dies.  That is if you have an experienced crew.

 

4)  Trying this skill as a MA/Off tank was not effective, as after you taunt, rescue and hit the skill, someone else can easily pick up the mob off of you unless paying attention / realize your pattern.  Might be more useful here with raid group with more experience with the skill.

 

Conclusion - if you just MT/Raid (no off tanking here - this skill is not very useful IMO as a MA or off tank) then pick up this skill.  If you do anything else (run groups, MA, off tank) I'd suggest STR and max out Crits and Hate.  Combine with WIS line (Max Mit, Max DPS) for optimal experience.

 

Optionally, take this skill and use your guard as MT/Raid only and spend the rest of your time playing an alt, OR get the BP mentioned above.

 

Sakara

70/47 Guardian

[Wabit]

i've been thinking of trying out wis 4/4/8/8, int 4/8/8/5...  i have the reflexes line atm but am unimpressed with it...

[Sir_Halbarad]

Thanks all for your input! I am really interested in the STR Line now and will give it a try... Going WIS 4/4/8/8/- (24) and STR 4/4/8/8/- (24) then

[-Aonein-]

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Sir_Halbarad wrote:
Thanks all for your input!

I am really interested in the STR Line now and will give it a try...

Going WIS 4/4/8/8/- (24) and STR 4/4/8/8/- (24) then

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You wont regret it, i went this line from the get go and havent looked back.

[Nyven]

I also went agi line and took dragoon's reflexes for awhile, but it didn't really impress me.  Once every 10 minutes you'd have a short 100% parry for 12s though you still get hit by spells, and you basically can't do anything while using it.  I respec'd to 4/4/8/8 in str and 8/4/5/8 in wis (extra wis since I'm on pvp server and resists are king there).  My dps went up a good 150-200ish on raids and with the +10% hate gain I was holding agro solidly as MT, much moreso than beforehand.  Because of this I noticed our dps being able to go out much more, raising the overall parse of the raid by more than we are used to causing mobs to drop faster.  I'm also much more viable in grouping and soloing, and all the crits help me out a lot in pvp.  I get all these benefits all of the time, instead of just 12 seconds every 10 minutes.  I'm very happy overall with this respec, as I found Dragoon's Reflexes to be lacking and disappointing.

[Snotz27]

Dragoon Reflexes is one of the most important skills a guardian can have.  It has saved many a wipe and saved tons of time reorganizing on multiple levels.   I see numerous posts about people complaining about being stunned for 12 seconds, but in reality its not even an issue.  By the time you use this skill, you've already spammed your taunts on the mob and like any good guardian you should have at least all adept IIIs in your taunts (if not masters) and you should have gone down your str line giving you an inherant passive hate gain as well (executioner's anger, spend at least 6 pts in this, so when your stunned your still gaining hate).  If you are still worried about losing agro while stunned, simply set up a hotkey that alerts the group you are using dragoon reflexes.  This will be an indicator to your group to "slow" down the spam dps.  You should also by this time spent additional points in the guardian tree maximizing the 5 points in "enhance vindictive strike."  So, with the "correct" build the 12 second stun is not even in the conversation.  The skill is also now usable once every minute, not once every 10 minutes as it used to be.  Very handy...

That said, if you are a solo'er, dragoon reflexes is not at all handy...

[Khrunk]

[Removed for Content] this is an old post.

[Jackula]

Good job on digging up a year old post to make your first post Snotz.  :/   Necro posts FTL./heads back to EQ2Flames, as there's nothing to see here