Is it Christmas?

Briz · 12-10-2005, 09:01 AM

Whatever it is, there's certainly something nicer than coal in the stocking: From Test Update #18:

Guardian changes:- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.

Grumpy_Warrior_01 · 12-10-2005, 10:04 AM

*blink blink*

Grond · 12-10-2005, 02:47 PM

I was surprised. You can always count on updates being devoid of Guardian changes. Four changes and a relevant fighter change was a surprise. They're good changes to boot. If updates keep coming at this rate for LO's I can't complain.

Sir Grondax Ix'Thania The Loyal

Tro · 12-10-2005, 05:11 PM

Personally didn't mind the root component of MD but a heavy snare ok .. But, still no utility SMILEY Looks like they tweaked a bit but I was expecting more DPS or something. Something useful for a raid/group when not tanking.. Oh well atleast they are looking at us.. They wont ellaborate prior to obviously but we got something.

Message Edited by Trook on 12-10-2005 04:17 AM

Aven Elonis · 12-10-2005, 05:57 PM

There was another change in Test Update 18:

Paladin changes:
- Amends now siphons slightly less hate.

A nerf which helps Guardians. Not right SOE. Should have raised everyone else's taunts. Or made taunts less or non resisted.

On the actual Guardian changes.

Hmm, so it appears I can move a bit now when using Goading Defense, that would be nice. Not sure Tower of Stone should have had it's damage to shield reduced. Will have to see Entrench and Sentry Watch in action to decide if they will be worth using now.

Still no skills for Guardians when they are not MT on a raid. WOW these benches on the sideline are getting warmer.

Aven Elonis

60 Guardian, Steamfont, Keepers of the Oak

Message Edited by Aven Elonis on 12-10-2005 08:01 AM

RafaelSmith · 12-10-2005, 07:41 PM

Brizzy wrote:
Whatever it is, there's certainly something nicer than coal in the stocking: From Test Update #18:
Guardian changes:- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.

None of those changes help me and my group. -Goading Defense...never really was bothered by the root. -Entrench ...have yet to need to use it -Tower of Stone ...havent needed it yet and i refuse to use an ability that destroys gear..lame concept -Sentry Watch ..i use this but only cause its there not cause it makes any difference in my groups sucess....

Cytrani · 12-10-2005, 08:01 PM

This is far from Christmas. Its more like asking for a nice shiny bike and getting a playschool tricycle.

Greyto · 12-10-2005, 09:17 PM

Brizzy wrote:
Whatever it is, there's certainly something nicer than coal in the stocking: From Test Update #18:

Guardian changes:
- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.
- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.
- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.
- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.

Well I am happy to see we are at least getting some attention, we will have to see how much ToS has reduced damage to our shields.

I like the change to Sentry I do use that CA and it does help, especially for getting agro back from healers who cast a reactive on large mobs just before pull to help get a jump on heals.

Snare instead of root is a good thing IMO so I am very happy to see that change.

Add some haste and DPS to our offensive stance and I guess I wont have any reason to complain here anymore SMILEY .

Jakerf · 12-11-2005, 01:27 AM

Brizzy wrote:

Whatever it is, there's certainly something nicer than coal in the stocking: From Test Update #18:

Guardian changes:
- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.
- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.
- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.
- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.

Wow!

Do any of the developers have any idea of what the day in the life of a guardian is like?

Sure, the snare is better. My guard is only level 51, but I would imagine that the reduced item damage is better when using Tower of Stone. The other changes won't hurt either.

However, Guardians do fine at MT. The problems the guardian has at MT are minor and no worse (except for item damage) then any other fighter class. Guardians are no longer the uber tank, but I think that was more perception then realitiy anyway.

Guardians have no role outside of MT. Anyone who thinks you can solo with this class does not know what it is like with a monk, ranger, or necro (my 3 alternates). Guardians have no role in a group outside of MT. When putting together a group, they are my last choice of the fighters for MA. Certainly not a consideration for any DPS contribution.

Guadians have been saying this since lu13. These new changes are intended the the level 60 guild MT. Does SOE know what percent of their customer base that is? There is nothing in there for the other 90% that would make this class fun to play.

The EQ2 Development team needs an advocate for the less then 60 guard.

RafaelSmith · 12-11-2005, 01:56 AM

Jakerf wrote:

The EQ2 Development team needs an advocate for the less then 60 guard.

More like they need an advocate for the non-raid MT Guard....a.k.a The Majority of us. =P

Greyto · 12-11-2005, 02:46 AM

RafaelSmith wrote:

Jakerf wrote:

The EQ2 Development team needs an advocate for the less then 60 guard.

More like they need an advocate for the non-raid MT Guard....a.k.a The Majority of us. =P

You know I think they must understand this point. that is why they gave us offensive and defensive stances. They just did not follow through on the idea and make offensive stance something that made the non MT a valid group choice. The brawler sub-class's can really do both jobs well. And since balance is the theme, it is hard for me to understand why we can't seem to drive this point home.

I think the majority of guardians understand what SOE was trying to do with LU13. What we just can't seem to get across to them is, they only did the job half way.

Message Edited by Greytoon on 12-10-2005 04:49 PM

Chog · 12-11-2005, 06:47 AM

Am I the only one that finds all of the complaints about the HtL skill line funny?

First it started with being rooted is stupid and should be fixed. Now you are no longer rooted when using the ability and people complain that it is not a fix... :smileyindifferent:

Ladicav · 12-11-2005, 10:17 AM

You won't hear me complain.

I think the snare effect is a better compromise. It grants some mobility, which I find important as an MT. It is inevitable that movement is needed sometimes during a fight, being rooted to the spot is/was an innane penalty for just trying to do a job. The snare also keeps from running away at full speed when feared which should keep the fearphobic population happy.

Holding my reservations until I have tested this for myself, but already for this spell only I might add, it is a step in the right direction.

Guradians on the whole still need some major attention though.

TunaBoo · 12-11-2005, 11:21 AM

Steps in the right direction, still not quite there yet.

Gaige · 12-11-2005, 01:33 PM

Aven Elonis wrote:

Paladin changes:
- Amends now siphons slightly less hate.

A nerf which helps Guardians. Not right SOE. Should have raised everyone else's taunts. Or made taunts less or non resisted.

Do people actually want the game to be so easy that its boring and silly? Honestly. I just don't understand people's desire to be able to hit one button and NEVER lose aggro. How is that even fun?

craized warrior · 12-11-2005, 02:39 PM

i think most people are more worried about the fact that we hit every button and still lose agro (its happened to me on various occasions) people just want a reliable skill.

Allowin · 12-11-2005, 03:04 PM

Gaige wrote:

Do people actually want the game to be so easy that its boring and silly? Honestly. I just don't understand people's desire to be able to hit one button and NEVER lose aggro. How is that even fun?

says the do all monk, who can tank AND do dps AND has utility.

gaige, go troll on another forum. (the monk forums are right above the guardian one) all you do is come here and insert your useless 2 cent on OUR class. your NOT a guardian. go post in your forums.

you dont see me over on the monks forums posting about monks do you? no, why? because im not a monk, your not a guardian. go home!!!!!

Ladicav · 12-11-2005, 03:27 PM

I agree, you have no clue on what Guardians have to go through Gaige, go away. Don't come here preaching that you do.

Aven Elonis · 12-11-2005, 06:17 PM

Yippee, I've been trolled by Gaige, my life is now complete. SMILEY

Honestly, I have Adept 3 and higher aggro spells, use HO for all they are worth, spam aggro and use combat arts in between and will still lose aggro in a group. I use Reinforcement and Rescue as often as they be up to get aggro back.

Although at this time, I begin to worry less about losing aggro, since most of the mages, scouts or healers that get it don't seem to take that much damage from the bad guys when I do lose it. Certainly not as much as I take when the bad guy is on me, still trying to figure that one out.

Note - When I lose aggro, it is on the off targets in a group, so will tab between the target to spread the aggro around. (Of course the tab function combined with people who target thru me, instead of using /assist, can get down right interesting.)

Pre CU, I didn't get away with clicking one aggro button ( I had 8 and used all of them), and I sure as don't get away with one button aggro now.

And as someone else said, power comsumption is a joke for guardians (and maybe all fighters) when it comes to tanking.

Aven Elonis

60 Guardian, Steamfont, Keepers of the Oak

RafaelSmith · 12-11-2005, 08:07 PM

Gaige wrote:Do people actually want the game to be so easy that its boring and silly?

Just look at all the godaweful changes SOE has made to the game since release and you will get your answer. With each patch they make the game easier and easier thus more boring.

Shakir10 · 12-11-2005, 09:03 PM

Blackguard wrote:
We have an achievements system planned, which is in some ways similar to an AA system (in that it allows you to differentiate your character). I know we've said this before, but since some people aren't aware I thought it would be good to throw that out there. When can you expect them? When we're done with them and feel they are worth going live.

Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder

I know we mention utility a lot on these boards. The idea of Guardians having something to do if we are not the main tank. I am just curious if this achievement system Blackguard mentioned may help with that. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it may help with giving viable options. Will see I guess SMILEY

Shakir

Gaige · 12-11-2005, 09:50 PM

To everyone who took that opportunity to jump on the Gaige isn't a Guardian theme... GASP!~

Read it again, its a general statement about aggro management in general. I said nothing specific about your class, I was talking about all of us. Especially considering the poster I quoted said "all fighters taunts should have been upgraded to Amend like levels". So get over yourselves.

RafaelSmith wrote:

Just look at all the godaweful changes SOE has made to the game since release and you will get your answer. With each patch they make the game easier and easier thus more boring.

Really? Sure some things have been made easier, I won't argue that. I will say that the combat system and aggro management is much better now, than pre-LU13. You know the "cast a reactive, taunt once, have aggro forever" system. The comment about upgrading everyone to Amend like aggro, combined with the various ones I've read that state fighters shouldn't lose aggro, especially guardians, just seemed like wanting to revert to the dummy aggro system.

Grumpy_Warrior_01 · 12-11-2005, 11:16 PM

Gaige wrote:

Do people actually want the game to be so easy that its boring and silly? Honestly. I just don't understand people's desire to be able to hit one button and NEVER lose aggro. How is that even fun?

Gaige further wrote:

To everyone who took that opportunity to jump on the Gaige isn't a Guardian theme... GASP!~

Read it again, its a general statement about aggro management in general. I said nothing specific about your class, I was talking about all of us. Especially considering the poster I quoted said "all fighters taunts should have been upgraded to Amend like levels". So get over yourselves.

RafaelSmith wrote:

Just look at all the godaweful changes SOE has made to the game since release and you will get your answer. With each patch they make the game easier and easier thus more boring.

Really? Sure some things have been made easier, I won't argue that. I will say that the combat system and aggro management is much better now, than pre-LU13. You know the "cast a reactive, taunt once, have aggro forever" system. The comment about upgrading everyone to Amend like aggro, combined with the various ones I've read that state fighters shouldn't lose aggro, especially guardians, just seemed like wanting to revert to the dummy aggro system.

There's nothing dummy about holding aggro, Gaige. It's basically the single main objective of fighters as we play this game encounter after encounter, night after night. It's our "job" if you can have such a thing in a video game. And I think what a lot of the fighters object to is the campaign for a built-in failure mechanism for their primary role. Given all of a player's gaming talents, all his Adept III or Master whatevers, all his months of experience, time and plat spent and he STILL can't reliably do his main role just because somebody thought it would be so cool and realistic to program a mechanism into the game that intermittently forces failure onto him no matter what he does... that's asinine.

If I'm doing everything right, using my skills, acquiring decent equipment, grouping carefully and communicating well with my group members, I should be able to perform my role ADMIRABLY, consistently, reliably. No failures. I have no idea why anyone would want to see a system where some percentage of the time, even playing the game perfectly, you would still expect to fail due to some artificial dice roll, and disappoint your fellow players all for the sake of some weird twisted version of virtual realism. Holding aggro, and doing it well, is neither silly nor boring in its current form.

RafaelSmith · 12-11-2005, 11:51 PM

Gaige wrote:
To everyone who took that opportunity to jump on the Gaige isn't a Guardian theme... GASP!~

Read it again, its a general statement about aggro management in general. I said nothing specific about your class, I was talking about all of us. Especially considering the poster I quoted said "all fighters taunts should have been upgraded to Amend like levels". So get over yourselves.

RafaelSmith wrote:Just look at all the godaweful changes SOE has made to the game since release and you will get your answer. With each patch they make the game easier and easier thus more boring.

Really? Sure some things have been made easier, I won't argue that. I will say that the combat system and aggro management is much better now, than pre-LU13. You know the "cast a reactive, taunt once, have aggro forever" system. The comment about upgrading everyone to Amend like aggro, combined with the various ones I've read that state fighters shouldn't lose aggro, especially guardians, just seemed like wanting to revert to the dummy aggro system.

I dont know what everyone else is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about.. Aggro is insanely easy...for me its actually easier than it was pre-LU13. The entire game is too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] easy, too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] boring, too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] controlled by SOE. There is no decisions to be made when forming groups...grab any ol fighter and priest and your golden...doesnt matter who or what they are cause we have all been brought DOWN to being equal....There is no way to suck in this game which actually means there is no way to shine...hense its all boring. This isnt your grandfathers EQ its your grandchilds pet monkey's EQ.

Sirlutt · 12-12-2005, 12:26 AM

Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:

There's nothing dummy about holding aggro, Gaige. It's basically the single main objective of fighters as we play this game encounter after encounter, night after night. It's our "job" if you can have such a thing in a video game. And I think what a lot of the fighters object to is the campaign for a built-in failure mechanism for their primary role. Given all of a player's gaming talents, all his Adept III or Master whatevers, all his months of experience, time and plat spent and he STILL can't reliably do his main role just because somebody thought it would be so cool and realistic to program a mechanism into the game that intermittently forces failure onto him no matter what he does... that's asinine.

If I'm doing everything right, using my skills, acquiring decent equipment, grouping carefully and communicating well with my group members, I should be able to perform my role ADMIRABLY, consistently, reliably. No failures. I have no idea why anyone would want to see a system where some percentage of the time, even playing the game perfectly, you would still expect to fail due to some artificial dice roll, and disappoint your fellow players all for the sake of some weird twisted version of virtual realism. Holding aggro, and doing it well, is neither silly nor boring in its current form.

Absa-fuggin-lootly

Bravem · 12-12-2005, 06:57 AM

Take it easy.

I think Guardian's keeping aggro ability is sufficient now.

In raid, Guardian is good tanker & no problem.

but one problem that self skill & buff is too many decentralize or join ownership to other.

Generally, one target self buff is strong but (AE) target buff is relatively weak.

Guardian's self buff is mainly (AE) target buff or mana cost buff or panalty buff.

And moreover intercept skill is too many unnecessarily.

That is problem.

To conclude, I think If Dev slove Guardian's decentralize buff & skill problem, Guardian's user maybe be satisfy.

I sorry, I am new Zerker user.

But I think it.

When i see skill list, I feel it.

Message Edited by Bravemen on 12-11-2005 06:00 PM

Raahl · 12-12-2005, 08:17 AM

These are steps in the right direction.

Baby steps.

This is what I don't like about LU#18

- Fighter pets now taunt more often, and their taunts have a lower chance of being resisted. Their taunt effectiveness should now scale properly with level.

So fighter pets will now taunt better than players.

Bravem · 12-12-2005, 08:35 AM

These are steps in the right direction.

Baby steps.

This is what I don't like about LU#18

- Fighter pets now taunt more often, and their taunts have a lower chance of being resisted. Their taunt effectiveness should now scale properly with level.

So fighter pets will now taunt better than players.

Don't worry about t.

I have 55 lvl Conju to seal.

52 lvl myrmidon fighter pet have very weak taunt' bug.

Perhaps it mean Dev just will fix it

I think that's it.

EvilIguana9 · 12-12-2005, 10:13 AM

If I'm doing everything right, using my skills, acquiring decent equipment, grouping carefully and communicating well with my group members, I should be able to perform my role ADMIRABLY, consistently, reliably. No failures. I have no idea why anyone would want to see a system where some percentage of the time, even playing the game perfectly, you would still expect to fail due to some artificial dice roll, and disappoint your fellow players all for the sake of some weird twisted version of virtual realism. Holding aggro, and doing it well, is neither silly nor boring in its current form.

So you're saying that we should get rid of damage ranges. Every swing should hit 100% of the time, for full damage. Spells could not be interupted, they could not be resisted. In fact rather than having long boring fights the computer could just calculate the winner beforehand based on the absolute comparison of numerical stats. Sorry, not buying it. There has to be randomness in the game or it would not be a game at all. If you want a game where random numbers have no impact on how well you do you may wish to switch genres. There are not many RPG games built around true real time combat systems, especially not with persistant worlds.

Gaige · 12-12-2005, 01:56 PM

Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:

If I'm doing everything right, using my skills, acquiring decent equipment, grouping carefully and communicating well with my group members, I should be able to perform my role ADMIRABLY, consistently, reliably. No failures.

**removed flame bait**

Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on 12-13-2005 04:50 PM

12-10-2005, 05:11 PM	#4
Tro General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 698	Personally didn't mind the root component of MD but a heavy snare ok .. But, still no utility Looks like they tweaked a bit but I was expecting more DPS or something. Something useful for a raid/group when not tanking.. Oh well atleast they are looking at us.. They wont ellaborate prior to obviously but we got something. Message Edited by Trook on 12-10-2005 04:17 AM

12-10-2005, 07:41 PM	#6
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	Brizzy wrote: Whatever it is, there's certainly something nicer than coal in the stocking: From Test Update #18: Guardian changes:- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer. None of those changes help me and my group. -Goading Defense...never really was bothered by the root. -Entrench ...have yet to need to use it -Tower of Stone ...havent needed it yet and i refuse to use an ability that destroys gear..lame concept -Sentry Watch ..i use this but only cause its there not cause it makes any difference in my groups sucess.... __________________

12-10-2005, 09:17 PM	#8
Greyto Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 203	Brizzy wrote: Whatever it is, there's certainly something nicer than coal in the stocking: From Test Update #18: Guardian changes: - Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root. - Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level. - Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received. - Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer. Well I am happy to see we are at least getting some attention, we will have to see how much ToS has reduced damage to our shields. I like the change to Sentry I do use that CA and it does help, especially for getting agro back from healers who cast a reactive on large mobs just before pull to help get a jump on heals. Snare instead of root is a good thing IMO so I am very happy to see that change. Add some haste and DPS to our offensive stance and I guess I wont have any reason to complain here anymore .

12-11-2005, 01:27 AM	#9
Jakerf Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 15	Brizzy wrote: Whatever it is, there's certainly something nicer than coal in the stocking: From Test Update #18: Guardian changes: - Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root. - Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level. - Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received. - Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer. Wow! Do any of the developers have any idea of what the day in the life of a guardian is like? Sure, the snare is better. My guard is only level 51, but I would imagine that the reduced item damage is better when using Tower of Stone. The other changes won't hurt either. However, Guardians do fine at MT. The problems the guardian has at MT are minor and no worse (except for item damage) then any other fighter class. Guardians are no longer the uber tank, but I think that was more perception then realitiy anyway. Guardians have no role outside of MT. Anyone who thinks you can solo with this class does not know what it is like with a monk, ranger, or necro (my 3 alternates). Guardians have no role in a group outside of MT. When putting together a group, they are my last choice of the fighters for MA. Certainly not a consideration for any DPS contribution. Guadians have been saying this since lu13. These new changes are intended the the level 60 guild MT. Does SOE know what percent of their customer base that is? There is nothing in there for the other 90% that would make this class fun to play. The EQ2 Development team needs an advocate for the less then 60 guard.

12-11-2005, 01:56 AM	#10
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	Jakerf wrote: The EQ2 Development team needs an advocate for the less then 60 guard. More like they need an advocate for the non-raid MT Guard....a.k.a The Majority of us. =P __________________

12-10-2005, 09:01 AM	#1
Briz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 75	Whatever it is, there's certainly something nicer than coal in the stocking: From Test Update #18: Guardian changes:- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer. __________________

12-10-2005, 10:04 AM	#2
Grumpy_Warrior_01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 528	blink blink

12-10-2005, 02:47 PM	#3
Grond Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 90	I was surprised. You can always count on updates being devoid of Guardian changes. Four changes and a relevant fighter change was a surprise. They're good changes to boot. If updates keep coming at this rate for LO's I can't complain. Sir Grondax Ix'Thania The Loyal

12-10-2005, 05:57 PM	#5
Aven Elonis Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 273	There was another change in Test Update 18: Paladin changes: - Amends now siphons slightly less hate. A nerf which helps Guardians. Not right SOE. Should have raised everyone else's taunts. Or made taunts less or non resisted. On the actual Guardian changes. Hmm, so it appears I can move a bit now when using Goading Defense, that would be nice. Not sure Tower of Stone should have had it's damage to shield reduced. Will have to see Entrench and Sentry Watch in action to decide if they will be worth using now. Still no skills for Guardians when they are not MT on a raid. WOW these benches on the sideline are getting warmer. Aven Elonis 60 Guardian, Steamfont, Keepers of the Oak Message Edited by Aven Elonis on 12-10-2005 08:01 AM

12-10-2005, 08:01 PM	#7
Cytrani Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2	This is far from Christmas. Its more like asking for a nice shiny bike and getting a playschool tricycle.

12-11-2005, 02:46 AM	#11
Greyto Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 203	RafaelSmith wrote: Jakerf wrote: The EQ2 Development team needs an advocate for the less then 60 guard. More like they need an advocate for the non-raid MT Guard....a.k.a The Majority of us. =P You know I think they must understand this point. that is why they gave us offensive and defensive stances. They just did not follow through on the idea and make offensive stance something that made the non MT a valid group choice. The brawler sub-class's can really do both jobs well. And since balance is the theme, it is hard for me to understand why we can't seem to drive this point home. I think the majority of guardians understand what SOE was trying to do with LU13. What we just can't seem to get across to them is, they only did the job half way. Message Edited by Greytoon on 12-10-2005 04:49 PM

12-11-2005, 06:47 AM	#12
Chog General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	Am I the only one that finds all of the complaints about the HtL skill line funny? First it started with being rooted is stupid and should be fixed. Now you are no longer rooted when using the ability and people complain that it is not a fix... :smileyindifferent: __________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your food stamps will be stopped effective March 1992 because we received notice that you passed away. May God bless you. You may reapply if there is a change in your circumstances."--Department of Social Services, Greenville, South Carolina

12-11-2005, 10:17 AM	#13
Ladicav Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 212	You won't hear me complain. I think the snare effect is a better compromise. It grants some mobility, which I find important as an MT. It is inevitable that movement is needed sometimes during a fight, being rooted to the spot is/was an innane penalty for just trying to do a job. The snare also keeps from running away at full speed when feared which should keep the fearphobic population happy. Holding my reservations until I have tested this for myself, but already for this spell only I might add, it is a step in the right direction. Guradians on the whole still need some major attention though.

12-11-2005, 11:21 AM	#14
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	Steps in the right direction, still not quite there yet. __________________ www.spiralguild.com

12-11-2005, 01:33 PM	#15
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Aven Elonis wrote: Paladin changes: - Amends now siphons slightly less hate. A nerf which helps Guardians. Not right SOE. Should have raised everyone else's taunts. Or made taunts less or non resisted. Do people actually want the game to be so easy that its boring and silly? Honestly. I just don't understand people's desire to be able to hit one button and NEVER lose aggro. How is that even fun? __________________

12-11-2005, 02:39 PM	#16
craized warrior Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 43	i think most people are more worried about the fact that we hit every button and still lose agro (its happened to me on various occasions) people just want a reliable skill.

12-11-2005, 03:04 PM	#17
Allowin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	Gaige wrote: Do people actually want the game to be so easy that its boring and silly? Honestly. I just don't understand people's desire to be able to hit one button and NEVER lose aggro. How is that even fun? says the do all monk, who can tank AND do dps AND has utility. gaige, go troll on another forum. (the monk forums are right above the guardian one) all you do is come here and insert your useless 2 cent on OUR class. your NOT a guardian. go post in your forums. you dont see me over on the monks forums posting about monks do you? no, why? because im not a monk, your not a guardian. go home!!!!!

12-11-2005, 03:27 PM	#18
Ladicav Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 212	I agree, you have no clue on what Guardians have to go through Gaige, go away. Don't come here preaching that you do.

12-11-2005, 06:17 PM	#19
Aven Elonis Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 273	Yippee, I've been trolled by Gaige, my life is now complete. Honestly, I have Adept 3 and higher aggro spells, use HO for all they are worth, spam aggro and use combat arts in between and will still lose aggro in a group. I use Reinforcement and Rescue as often as they be up to get aggro back. Although at this time, I begin to worry less about losing aggro, since most of the mages, scouts or healers that get it don't seem to take that much damage from the bad guys when I do lose it. Certainly not as much as I take when the bad guy is on me, still trying to figure that one out. Note - When I lose aggro, it is on the off targets in a group, so will tab between the target to spread the aggro around. (Of course the tab function combined with people who target thru me, instead of using /assist, can get down right interesting.) Pre CU, I didn't get away with clicking one aggro button ( I had 8 and used all of them), and I sure as don't get away with one button aggro now. And as someone else said, power comsumption is a joke for guardians (and maybe all fighters) when it comes to tanking. Aven Elonis 60 Guardian, Steamfont, Keepers of the Oak

12-11-2005, 08:07 PM	#20
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	Gaige wrote:Do people actually want the game to be so easy that its boring and silly? Just look at all the godaweful changes SOE has made to the game since release and you will get your answer. With each patch they make the game easier and easier thus more boring. __________________

12-11-2005, 09:03 PM	#21
Shakir10 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 175	Blackguard wrote: We have an achievements system planned, which is in some ways similar to an AA system (in that it allows you to differentiate your character). I know we've said this before, but since some people aren't aware I thought it would be good to throw that out there. When can you expect them? When we're done with them and feel they are worth going live. Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder I know we mention utility a lot on these boards. The idea of Guardians having something to do if we are not the main tank. I am just curious if this achievement system Blackguard mentioned may help with that. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it may help with giving viable options. Will see I guess Shakir __________________

12-11-2005, 09:50 PM	#22
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	To everyone who took that opportunity to jump on the Gaige isn't a Guardian theme... GASP!~ Read it again, its a general statement about aggro management in general. I said nothing specific about your class, I was talking about all of us. Especially considering the poster I quoted said "all fighters taunts should have been upgraded to Amend like levels". So get over yourselves. RafaelSmith wrote: Just look at all the godaweful changes SOE has made to the game since release and you will get your answer. With each patch they make the game easier and easier thus more boring. Really? Sure some things have been made easier, I won't argue that. I will say that the combat system and aggro management is much better now, than pre-LU13. You know the "cast a reactive, taunt once, have aggro forever" system. The comment about upgrading everyone to Amend like aggro, combined with the various ones I've read that state fighters shouldn't lose aggro, especially guardians, just seemed like wanting to revert to the dummy aggro system. __________________

12-11-2005, 11:16 PM	#23
Grumpy_Warrior_01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 528	Gaige wrote: Do people actually want the game to be so easy that its boring and silly? Honestly. I just don't understand people's desire to be able to hit one button and NEVER lose aggro. How is that even fun? Gaige further wrote: To everyone who took that opportunity to jump on the Gaige isn't a Guardian theme... GASP!~ Read it again, its a general statement about aggro management in general. I said nothing specific about your class, I was talking about all of us. Especially considering the poster I quoted said "all fighters taunts should have been upgraded to Amend like levels". So get over yourselves. RafaelSmith wrote: Just look at all the godaweful changes SOE has made to the game since release and you will get your answer. With each patch they make the game easier and easier thus more boring. Really? Sure some things have been made easier, I won't argue that. I will say that the combat system and aggro management is much better now, than pre-LU13. You know the "cast a reactive, taunt once, have aggro forever" system. The comment about upgrading everyone to Amend like aggro, combined with the various ones I've read that state fighters shouldn't lose aggro, especially guardians, just seemed like wanting to revert to the dummy aggro system. There's nothing dummy about holding aggro, Gaige. It's basically the single main objective of fighters as we play this game encounter after encounter, night after night. It's our "job" if you can have such a thing in a video game. And I think what a lot of the fighters object to is the campaign for a built-in failure mechanism for their primary role. Given all of a player's gaming talents, all his Adept III or Master whatevers, all his months of experience, time and plat spent and he STILL can't reliably do his main role just because somebody thought it would be so cool and realistic to program a mechanism into the game that intermittently forces failure onto him no matter what he does... that's asinine. If I'm doing everything right, using my skills, acquiring decent equipment, grouping carefully and communicating well with my group members, I should be able to perform my role ADMIRABLY, consistently, reliably. No failures. I have no idea why anyone would want to see a system where some percentage of the time, even playing the game perfectly, you would still expect to fail due to some artificial dice roll, and disappoint your fellow players all for the sake of some weird twisted version of virtual realism. Holding aggro, and doing it well, is neither silly nor boring in its current form.

12-11-2005, 11:51 PM	#24
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	Gaige wrote: To everyone who took that opportunity to jump on the Gaige isn't a Guardian theme... GASP!~ Read it again, its a general statement about aggro management in general. I said nothing specific about your class, I was talking about all of us. Especially considering the poster I quoted said "all fighters taunts should have been upgraded to Amend like levels". So get over yourselves. RafaelSmith wrote:Just look at all the godaweful changes SOE has made to the game since release and you will get your answer. With each patch they make the game easier and easier thus more boring. Really? Sure some things have been made easier, I won't argue that. I will say that the combat system and aggro management is much better now, than pre-LU13. You know the "cast a reactive, taunt once, have aggro forever" system. The comment about upgrading everyone to Amend like aggro, combined with the various ones I've read that state fighters shouldn't lose aggro, especially guardians, just seemed like wanting to revert to the dummy aggro system. I dont know what everyone else is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about.. Aggro is insanely easy...for me its actually easier than it was pre-LU13. The entire game is too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] easy, too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] boring, too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] controlled by SOE. There is no decisions to be made when forming groups...grab any ol fighter and priest and your golden...doesnt matter who or what they are cause we have all been brought DOWN to being equal....There is no way to suck in this game which actually means there is no way to shine...hense its all boring. This isnt your grandfathers EQ its your grandchilds pet monkey's EQ. __________________

12-12-2005, 12:26 AM	#25
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote: There's nothing dummy about holding aggro, Gaige. It's basically the single main objective of fighters as we play this game encounter after encounter, night after night. It's our "job" if you can have such a thing in a video game. And I think what a lot of the fighters object to is the campaign for a built-in failure mechanism for their primary role. Given all of a player's gaming talents, all his Adept III or Master whatevers, all his months of experience, time and plat spent and he STILL can't reliably do his main role just because somebody thought it would be so cool and realistic to program a mechanism into the game that intermittently forces failure onto him no matter what he does... that's asinine. If I'm doing everything right, using my skills, acquiring decent equipment, grouping carefully and communicating well with my group members, I should be able to perform my role ADMIRABLY, consistently, reliably. No failures. I have no idea why anyone would want to see a system where some percentage of the time, even playing the game perfectly, you would still expect to fail due to some artificial dice roll, and disappoint your fellow players all for the sake of some weird twisted version of virtual realism. Holding aggro, and doing it well, is neither silly nor boring in its current form. Absa-fuggin-lootly __________________ I heart DE Broads

12-12-2005, 06:57 AM	#26
Bravem Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 55	Take it easy. I think Guardian's keeping aggro ability is sufficient now. In raid, Guardian is good tanker & no problem. but one problem that self skill & buff is too many decentralize or join ownership to other. Generally, one target self buff is strong but (AE) target buff is relatively weak. Guardian's self buff is mainly (AE) target buff or mana cost buff or panalty buff. And moreover intercept skill is too many unnecessarily. That is problem. To conclude, I think If Dev slove Guardian's decentralize buff & skill problem, Guardian's user maybe be satisfy. I sorry, I am new Zerker user. But I think it. When i see skill list, I feel it. Message Edited by Bravemen on 12-11-2005 06:00 PM

12-12-2005, 08:17 AM	#27
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	These are steps in the right direction. Baby steps. This is what I don't like about LU#18 - Fighter pets now taunt more often, and their taunts have a lower chance of being resisted. Their taunt effectiveness should now scale properly with level. So fighter pets will now taunt better than players. __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

12-12-2005, 08:35 AM	#28
Bravem Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 55	These are steps in the right direction. Baby steps. This is what I don't like about LU#18 - Fighter pets now taunt more often, and their taunts have a lower chance of being resisted. Their taunt effectiveness should now scale properly with level. So fighter pets will now taunt better than players. Don't worry about t. I have 55 lvl Conju to seal. 52 lvl myrmidon fighter pet have very weak taunt' bug. Perhaps it mean Dev just will fix it I think that's it.

12-12-2005, 10:13 AM	#29
EvilIguana9 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 477	If I'm doing everything right, using my skills, acquiring decent equipment, grouping carefully and communicating well with my group members, I should be able to perform my role ADMIRABLY, consistently, reliably. No failures. I have no idea why anyone would want to see a system where some percentage of the time, even playing the game perfectly, you would still expect to fail due to some artificial dice roll, and disappoint your fellow players all for the sake of some weird twisted version of virtual realism. Holding aggro, and doing it well, is neither silly nor boring in its current form. So you're saying that we should get rid of damage ranges. Every swing should hit 100% of the time, for full damage. Spells could not be interupted, they could not be resisted. In fact rather than having long boring fights the computer could just calculate the winner beforehand based on the absolute comparison of numerical stats. Sorry, not buying it. There has to be randomness in the game or it would not be a game at all. If you want a game where random numbers have no impact on how well you do you may wish to switch genres. There are not many RPG games built around true real time combat systems, especially not with persistant worlds.

12-12-2005, 01:56 PM	#30
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote: If I'm doing everything right, using my skills, acquiring decent equipment, grouping carefully and communicating well with my group members, I should be able to perform my role ADMIRABLY, consistently, reliably. No failures. removed flame bait Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on 12-13-2005 04:50 PM __________________