About Tiers and Equipment

Axor · 12-01-2005, 09:47 PM

well i just want to let you all see something that maybe not all feeling.

Right now with the tier sistem that EQ2 is using i feel like i wasted load of DKPs for my guardian.

The sistem right now is :

Tier 1 2 3 4 .. those are grind lvls so i will focus on raiding points.

Tier 5 : From March to September i been rading and got full fabled t5 equipment. all was neat.. things were working good and the guild was progressing as well as myself.

Tier 6 : DoF comes out. In the grinding i find out that Legendary equipment has a higher AC and a higher effect on the mitigation formula than T5 equipment. That means i vendor all my T5 fableds like trash and i BUY new equipment. At this time i feel like i wasted 35k Rps of my guild raid points, of a total of 48k earned ( something arround that ) with a 90% attendance.

So what now? does that mean that being MT means to drop all of my items every 10 months ?

Yes it means that.

Let's see the diference with someone on another archetype or even on same but not a tank focused character.

There are nice items, for those who dont care that much of mitigation.

FT items like prismatic 1hs, Udalan Tablet with Power Regen, Drayek Ring, some neat effects on other items like haste bracers or K'dal leggins, are amazing items that i would keep if i was a class who bases his job on his mitigation.

With that pointed out i wonder what will happen in lets say 3 expansions beyond by the day 4th expansion launches.

Utility class will have arround 8 items of great usefull ( saying they get 2 of those on each expansion, as FT items, Haste or other neat effects, RoI for example, etc.)

Tank will have 0, will drop all his fableds obtained in last 10 month and get legendary T9 equipment for that expansion.

Is that fair ? no i dont think so

Is that the reason that plate drops are 5 times the rest all together? Yes prolly thats the reason.

Do i like it ? No i dont and that keeps the idea of quiting the tank, or only looting the most important things saving DKPs since in 10 month, well 8 since 2 passed since launch of DoF, i will need to sell it all.

what do you guys think ?

RafaelSmith · 12-02-2005, 06:36 PM

Excellent summation of what I have always thought was a basic flaw with EQ2 and its tiering system. I dont raid much like I didnt really raid in EQ1....The difference here is that back in EQ1 i was always jealous of the raid gear people were getting and it sorta provided me with a twisted form of incentive to keep playing and trying to better my character....In EQ2 that doesnt exist...once I have harvested enough rocks and logs im set..sure Ill see a nice Fabled item on someone from time to time but in the back of my mind i know that come next expansion it will be vendor trash....That provided little incentive to do much of anything besides chat with friends. "In EQ1 I couldnt raid much but i wished I could" "In EQ2 I cant raid much and I am glad cause im not missing out on anything" THat may have very well been their intent with EQ2 but I think its having far far reaching negative effects on the longevity and "coolness/fun" factor of the game....many of which we wont really realize for another 2-3 expansions....assuming any of us are around that long.

aislynn00 · 12-02-2005, 07:11 PM

It is one of the primary reasons (alongside the lack of challenge and any semblance of class balance) why I have been looking around for alternative games the last month and a half.

Perhaps Vanguard will prove the solution, perhaps EQ2 will eventually strike a new course--as the game has already done several times--and will finally become what I once hoped it would be: a fresher, better version of EQ1 with many of the flaws gone but with the challenge and sense of achievement preserved.

The sense of achievement is probably what I miss the most. I don't really feel my character is going anywhere. At the end of August, after spending a lot of time gearing up, he was getting pretty cool, but then, the slate was effectively wiped clean, making me feel cheated, robbed--all the time invested in the game after reaching 50th suddenly seeming a waste, with me having nothing to show for it.

Hell, I don't even have any AA points to give me an edge over all those players who reached 50th a week or two before the level cap was raised.

Figfore · 12-04-2005, 12:15 AM

I agree, imo you would start with your first set of armor and quest to make it better. You could harvest some rares take it to a armor have it improved, Do a raid for a magic potion and take it an alchem to get it imbued. It would become better with tier level items you put into it and still most would have need of the crafters. This would not stop with just armor, have rings and belt coated, plated, etc. And you still could have from the big raids finial drop that was good at next tier not the one your in. Like killing vox would drop a Tier 6 fable item that could also be made better into tier 7.

Aethane · 12-04-2005, 01:06 AM

As the tiering system stands it is plain stupid.

Right now we have this;

Tier 5 treasured > Tier 6 handcrafted, this just shouldnt be

Tier 6 treasured > tier 5 legendary and in some cases > tier 5 fabled

Tier 6 Legendary > Tier 5 Fabled this should be almost equal, these people put in alot of work to be ready for the next expansion and shouldnt have to smash rocks.

What was great in eq1 was that you went to dungeons to get most of the pieces you would need, like arms, bracers, gauntlets, boots, helms, then you raided to get your chest and legs and weapons. It was a nice progression. Imo all handcrafted should be for is to get a good enough set of gear to "start" your way in the dungeons then when finished you would have most of the good armor you will need to get your chest, legs, weapons. Usually the previous expansions top end chest and legs would get you by till you could raid and get the best of the current expansion.

As it stands now there is no reason other than to level to even experience dungeons. Smash rocks , level, and if lucky enough to be in a strong enough guild, raid.

So eq1 you killed named mobs for most of your upgrades in dungeons, leveled along the way, then raided to get your chest, legs, weapons. Good fun system.

In eq2 we smash rocks, then we get to level, then maybe get to raid for a whole new set of armor that we will throw away in the next expansion right away. No progression here, You get all your gear you will need right off then you level, then if your guild cannot raid due to size etc... the game is over for you.

Now dont get me wrong i will give credit where it is due, i love how named mobs in dungeons are dropping legendary gear now, makes you feel alot more special than smashing rocks and you get to have fun getting the upgrades. But they have alot of work to do and anybody in fabled shouldnt have to smash rocks in the next expansion.

I personally have np with crafters having special stuff they can make from rare harvests, but dungeons should hold items every bit as good and not just for raiding. The items on your back from a roleplay perspective tell a story about where your character has been and what he/she has done. Currently it tells people i smashed rocks or /bought it or /bought ebay plats to buy it, pristine to me = twink, but i am old school, unfortunately i have no choice about wearing that crap in eq2 at the moment.

Aar · 12-04-2005, 08:26 AM

From what I've seen, the t5 fabled greying is a bit of a one-time issue. The req level on it all is 40....so it goes grey at 55, and cobalt is better, even though they have similar mitigation. t6 fabled has at least 56-58 level requirement, so it will grey out at 70. As such, it will get you through against level 70-72 monsters (assuming that monster level affects mitigation - might be character level only *shrug*)...which should handle all the xp mobs in the next level expansion. The stats and hps should provide a relative bonus over the legendary t7 stuff at that point, though higher end raid monsters 72+ may require t7 legendary, if in fact it is the monster's level that causes the 'greying' effect instead of player level.

KAM · 12-07-2005, 09:55 AM

Aaric devs have repeatedly stated that greying armour does nothing .. it still provides the full mitigation it's just a good time to go buy something with a higher value. You could wear a set of t1 rare armour against a level 60 mob and still use all the mitigation from the item (not recommended though).

RafaelSmith · 12-08-2005, 03:03 AM

KAMiX wrote:Aaric devs have repeatedly stated that greying armour does nothing .. it still provides the full mitigation it's just a good time to go buy something with a higher value. You could wear a set of t1 rare armour against a level 60 mob and still use all the mitigation from the item (not recommended though).

Im not entirely sure that is the case. I have experimented with different peices of armor and sometimes even though the actual total mitigation shown in my persona window is HIGHER the %mitigated is lower. So I could put on some armor that would display my mitgation as 2000 and have it show X% mitigation against even con mob...then i can put on some other "older" armor that ends up with a total mitigation higher than 2000 yet give a % mitigated against even con mob less than X.

12-02-2005, 06:36 PM	#2
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	Excellent summation of what I have always thought was a basic flaw with EQ2 and its tiering system. I dont raid much like I didnt really raid in EQ1....The difference here is that back in EQ1 i was always jealous of the raid gear people were getting and it sorta provided me with a twisted form of incentive to keep playing and trying to better my character....In EQ2 that doesnt exist...once I have harvested enough rocks and logs im set..sure Ill see a nice Fabled item on someone from time to time but in the back of my mind i know that come next expansion it will be vendor trash....That provided little incentive to do much of anything besides chat with friends. "In EQ1 I couldnt raid much but i wished I could" "In EQ2 I cant raid much and I am glad cause im not missing out on anything" THat may have very well been their intent with EQ2 but I think its having far far reaching negative effects on the longevity and "coolness/fun" factor of the game....many of which we wont really realize for another 2-3 expansions....assuming any of us are around that long. __________________

12-02-2005, 07:11 PM	#3
aislynn00 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 560	It is one of the primary reasons (alongside the lack of challenge and any semblance of class balance) why I have been looking around for alternative games the last month and a half. Perhaps Vanguard will prove the solution, perhaps EQ2 will eventually strike a new course--as the game has already done several times--and will finally become what I once hoped it would be: a fresher, better version of EQ1 with many of the flaws gone but with the challenge and sense of achievement preserved. The sense of achievement is probably what I miss the most. I don't really feel my character is going anywhere. At the end of August, after spending a lot of time gearing up, he was getting pretty cool, but then, the slate was effectively wiped clean, making me feel cheated, robbed--all the time invested in the game after reaching 50th suddenly seeming a waste, with me having nothing to show for it. Hell, I don't even have any AA points to give me an edge over all those players who reached 50th a week or two before the level cap was raised. __________________ Karnoz Deviation Splitpaw

12-04-2005, 01:06 AM	#5
Aethane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 98	As the tiering system stands it is plain stupid. Right now we have this; Tier 5 treasured > Tier 6 handcrafted, this just shouldnt be Tier 6 treasured > tier 5 legendary and in some cases > tier 5 fabled Tier 6 Legendary > Tier 5 Fabled this should be almost equal, these people put in alot of work to be ready for the next expansion and shouldnt have to smash rocks. What was great in eq1 was that you went to dungeons to get most of the pieces you would need, like arms, bracers, gauntlets, boots, helms, then you raided to get your chest and legs and weapons. It was a nice progression. Imo all handcrafted should be for is to get a good enough set of gear to "start" your way in the dungeons then when finished you would have most of the good armor you will need to get your chest, legs, weapons. Usually the previous expansions top end chest and legs would get you by till you could raid and get the best of the current expansion. As it stands now there is no reason other than to level to even experience dungeons. Smash rocks , level, and if lucky enough to be in a strong enough guild, raid. So eq1 you killed named mobs for most of your upgrades in dungeons, leveled along the way, then raided to get your chest, legs, weapons. Good fun system. In eq2 we smash rocks, then we get to level, then maybe get to raid for a whole new set of armor that we will throw away in the next expansion right away. No progression here, You get all your gear you will need right off then you level, then if your guild cannot raid due to size etc... the game is over for you. Now dont get me wrong i will give credit where it is due, i love how named mobs in dungeons are dropping legendary gear now, makes you feel alot more special than smashing rocks and you get to have fun getting the upgrades. But they have alot of work to do and anybody in fabled shouldnt have to smash rocks in the next expansion. I personally have np with crafters having special stuff they can make from rare harvests, but dungeons should hold items every bit as good and not just for raiding. The items on your back from a roleplay perspective tell a story about where your character has been and what he/she has done. Currently it tells people i smashed rocks or /bought it or /bought ebay plats to buy it, pristine to me = twink, but i am old school, unfortunately i have no choice about wearing that crap in eq2 at the moment. __________________

12-08-2005, 03:03 AM	#8
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	KAMiX wrote:Aaric devs have repeatedly stated that greying armour does nothing .. it still provides the full mitigation it's just a good time to go buy something with a higher value. You could wear a set of t1 rare armour against a level 60 mob and still use all the mitigation from the item (not recommended though). Im not entirely sure that is the case. I have experimented with different peices of armor and sometimes even though the actual total mitigation shown in my persona window is HIGHER the %mitigated is lower. So I could put on some armor that would display my mitgation as 2000 and have it show X% mitigation against even con mob...then i can put on some other "older" armor that ends up with a total mitigation higher than 2000 yet give a % mitigated against even con mob less than X. __________________

12-01-2005, 09:47 PM	#1
Axor Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 134	well i just want to let you all see something that maybe not all feeling. Right now with the tier sistem that EQ2 is using i feel like i wasted load of DKPs for my guardian. The sistem right now is : Tier 1 2 3 4 .. those are grind lvls so i will focus on raiding points. Tier 5 : From March to September i been rading and got full fabled t5 equipment. all was neat.. things were working good and the guild was progressing as well as myself. Tier 6 : DoF comes out. In the grinding i find out that Legendary equipment has a higher AC and a higher effect on the mitigation formula than T5 equipment. That means i vendor all my T5 fableds like trash and i BUY new equipment. At this time i feel like i wasted 35k Rps of my guild raid points, of a total of 48k earned ( something arround that ) with a 90% attendance. So what now? does that mean that being MT means to drop all of my items every 10 months ? Yes it means that. Let's see the diference with someone on another archetype or even on same but not a tank focused character. There are nice items, for those who dont care that much of mitigation. FT items like prismatic 1hs, Udalan Tablet with Power Regen, Drayek Ring, some neat effects on other items like haste bracers or K'dal leggins, are amazing items that i would keep if i was a class who bases his job on his mitigation. With that pointed out i wonder what will happen in lets say 3 expansions beyond by the day 4th expansion launches. Utility class will have arround 8 items of great usefull ( saying they get 2 of those on each expansion, as FT items, Haste or other neat effects, RoI for example, etc.) Tank will have 0, will drop all his fableds obtained in last 10 month and get legendary T9 equipment for that expansion. Is that fair ? no i dont think so Is that the reason that plate drops are 5 times the rest all together? Yes prolly thats the reason. Do i like it ? No i dont and that keeps the idea of quiting the tank, or only looting the most important things saving DKPs since in 10 month, well 8 since 2 passed since launch of DoF, i will need to sell it all. what do you guys think ?

12-04-2005, 12:15 AM	#4
Figfore Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 19	I agree, imo you would start with your first set of armor and quest to make it better. You could harvest some rares take it to a armor have it improved, Do a raid for a magic potion and take it an alchem to get it imbued. It would become better with tier level items you put into it and still most would have need of the crafters. This would not stop with just armor, have rings and belt coated, plated, etc. And you still could have from the big raids finial drop that was good at next tier not the one your in. Like killing vox would drop a Tier 6 fable item that could also be made better into tier 7.

12-04-2005, 08:26 AM	#6
Aar Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 61	From what I've seen, the t5 fabled greying is a bit of a one-time issue. The req level on it all is 40....so it goes grey at 55, and cobalt is better, even though they have similar mitigation. t6 fabled has at least 56-58 level requirement, so it will grey out at 70. As such, it will get you through against level 70-72 monsters (assuming that monster level affects mitigation - might be character level only shrug)...which should handle all the xp mobs in the next level expansion. The stats and hps should provide a relative bonus over the legendary t7 stuff at that point, though higher end raid monsters 72+ may require t7 legendary, if in fact it is the monster's level that causes the 'greying' effect instead of player level.

12-07-2005, 09:55 AM	#7
KAM Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 73	Aaric devs have repeatedly stated that greying armour does nothing .. it still provides the full mitigation it's just a good time to go buy something with a higher value. You could wear a set of t1 rare armour against a level 60 mob and still use all the mitigation from the item (not recommended though).