How can I tank?

prand · 11-19-2005, 07:00 AM

I was just in a group with a 47 mage and a couple lower levels. The mage pet kept pullin agro. I thought maybe i wasnt bein on the ball here, so i pulled a single heroic and thought ill go all out this time. So, atk taunt yell htl...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] pet has agro before htl finishes. Im lv 47 guard how can a pet pull and hold aggro? If this is my fault someone please help me out. if this is design [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] a pet can out play a pc? Please let me know what im doin wrong ..playstyle or even playing .

thx

Danan · 11-19-2005, 07:13 AM

tell the mage to hold off with the pet some, or let it take the hits, he will get tired of summoning it all the time. Keeping agro on the tank is a group effort now, dps needs to adjust to you as you have to try and keep up with them.

prand · 11-19-2005, 07:17 AM

So basically this is design, that a PET is a better agro holder than a pc? Really? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] i really thought it was my fault somehow.

Danan · 11-19-2005, 07:23 AM

Could be that his pet and pet buffs are adept3 and your taunts are ap4, and that he uses his tank pet that taunts a lot itself. I would actually ask this in the conjuror forum as well, they might have some pointers.

Xile · 11-19-2005, 07:24 AM

Lots of options. Could be the conj has a master pet or an adept 3 pet

Could fix it by getting your taunt spells to adept 3.

prand · 11-19-2005, 07:27 AM

Thx never thought of that mine are adept1s and app4s.

Thx ill look into that

Chog · 11-19-2005, 08:59 AM

Questions that need to be answered.

What tier was the pet (App / Adet / Master)
What type of pet (Tank / Scout / Mage)
What was the stance the caster was using (Offensive / Defensive)
What was the "tier" of the stance (App / Adept / Master)

The "tier" of a pet is important because all spells / skills used by the pet will be of equal value. (So if it was an Adept3 tank pet all taunts would be of Adept3 quality).

The type of pet is important because some pets (Tank) will taunt whenever possible if the caster wants them to or not.

The stance the caster was in is important because the defensive stance adds hate to every attack / skill / spell used by the pet.

The tier of the stance the caster has is important because this will increase the hate gain of the pet through either DPS increase or Hate gain increase.

Ladicav · 11-20-2005, 09:31 AM

You forget to mention what colour cons the mobs you were fighting. If they were yellows or even oranges, you will get a good number of taunt resists, and HTL line of spells does not activate everytime the mob hits you.

If you were fighting higher level mobs, then you are SOL, since taunt resists are included by design.

Remember Guardians are unsung heroes and excel at hate generation and maintenance, more so than any other fighter, according to Moorgard anyway. The reality is not even close to this, as you seem to have experienced.

Timzil · 11-21-2005, 03:26 AM

Sounds like you had a mage who was pretty dumb. Hate management is a group activity.

LadyDor · 11-21-2005, 06:58 AM

I am a Guardian and was (am) having that happen to me as well. However, as I asked numerous casters to hold off a bit I have been told every time by them AND the healers"no, you let the pet tank". They tell me this is because both the pets master and the healer can heal the pet and that the pet(s) have better Hit Points than I do as well. Apparently my job as "unsung hero" is simply to buff the group *shrug*. For the record the average pet DOES seem to have better HP than I do (and I'm wearing a full set of Pristine Ebon with all imbuable pieces imbued) even when 3 or 4 levels lower than I am. So, basically I just let the Caster send in the pet to pull (no extra mobs agro that way it seems), target the pet to assist it, and whomp away. Occasionally I do pop off a spell to intercept a bit of damage for the pet (in tougher fights) so as to help a bit on Power conservation from the heals. It's a different take on what I thought (expected) my role as Guardian would be when I chose this class to BETA and play from day one....but it keeps me gaming instead of rerolling and loosing the 36 lvls I worked to get prior to LU 13.

Dart · 11-21-2005, 11:26 PM

Sounds like the mage was doing it by choice or he/she was an idiot. Either way after the first time of you telling him/her to wait a couple of seconds to send pet, and they dont listen,then let the pet tank, and Conj re summon it ever fight.

If the pet ends up tanking as good or better than you, well then back to square one for the guards.

Conj pets are crazy, as a warlock I often dup with one. We can duo Sanc, Vault, cache, Heroics level 60'sh. We even cleared Roost one time but couldnt take two of the named (Casters) just too much damage if one of us got agro or snare broke before we could kill it.

In short the mage was sending the pet to early it sounds like, and yes their pets are agro machines, our conj (level 5 SMILEY

can gank agro off our 60th MT paly at times, even while im in the MT group and hes using his agro sponge on me.

Lth · 11-22-2005, 04:04 PM

This actually happend to me yesterday in CT. I let the pet have the agro. It died. Let the conj. get the agro. when close to death I used Rescue (adept3) and got agro. After the fight I told him to control his pet. Its waste of healers mana pool, and a bloody great tank (me).Lthil - 46 Guardian (Splitpaw)

Chog · 11-24-2005, 05:34 AM

LadyDor wrote:
I am a Guardian and was (am) having that happen to me as well. However, as I asked numerous casters to hold off a bit I have been told every time by them AND the healers"no, you let the pet tank".

LadyDor

As a healer that has grouped with many pet classes I can say pets make horrid tanks if fighting anything equal level or higher. Give me a player tank over a pet tank to heal any day of the week.

Baldaena · 11-25-2005, 04:43 PM

interesting thread about pet's agro :

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tips&message.id=5519

What need to be checked :
- type of pet (fighters have taunt)
- stance of pet (defensive stance generates more hate)
- buff on pet (there are damage shield or proc which generates a lot of hate)

Besides the players have to ask the pet to "GUARD HERE" otherwise the pet will attak as soon as possible..

Seth · 11-27-2005, 01:52 AM

Put Assuage on the pet. End of story.

TunaBoo · 11-27-2005, 04:31 AM

"What need to be checked : - type of pet (fighters have taunt) - stance of pet (defensive stance generates more hate) - buff on pet (there are damage shield or proc which generates a lot of hate)" Assassin is usually more hate then fighter. Offensive is usually more hate then defensive. best bet is taunt a lot or assauge the pet.

Baldaena · 11-28-2005, 02:28 AM

oups, I have misread the post of Redorious, it's defensive buff and not defensive stance...

indeed, offensive stance = More hate.

aislynn00 · 11-28-2005, 06:50 AM

Dananeb wrote:

Keeping agro on the tank is a group effort now, dps needs to adjust to you as you have to try and keep up with them.

Or the group could simply get a paladin with Amends (Adept III), in which case everyone could cut loose without ever experiencing an instance of aggro loss.

Let me correct that statement of yours, Dananeb: "If you stick to a guardian tank, keeping agro on the tank is a group effort now."

There. Much better, now.

aislynn00 · 11-28-2005, 06:53 AM

Oh, and for the record, my Adept III/Master II taunts notwithstanding, I still occasionally lose aggro to my 57th level conjuror friend's pets. Which is so ridiculous, I would laugh if only I didn't feel like crying.

Message Edited by aislynn00 on 11-27-2005 05:54 PM

11-19-2005, 07:13 AM	#2
Danan General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 210	tell the mage to hold off with the pet some, or let it take the hits, he will get tired of summoning it all the time. Keeping agro on the tank is a group effort now, dps needs to adjust to you as you have to try and keep up with them. __________________

11-19-2005, 07:23 AM	#4
Danan General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 210	Could be that his pet and pet buffs are adept3 and your taunts are ap4, and that he uses his tank pet that taunts a lot itself. I would actually ask this in the conjuror forum as well, they might have some pointers. __________________

11-19-2005, 07:24 AM	#5
Xile Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 14	Lots of options. Could be the conj has a master pet or an adept 3 pet Could fix it by getting your taunt spells to adept 3. __________________ Entirin of Vox

11-19-2005, 08:59 AM	#7
Chog General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	Questions that need to be answered. What tier was the pet (App / Adet / Master) What type of pet (Tank / Scout / Mage) What was the stance the caster was using (Offensive / Defensive) What was the "tier" of the stance (App / Adept / Master) The "tier" of a pet is important because all spells / skills used by the pet will be of equal value. (So if it was an Adept3 tank pet all taunts would be of Adept3 quality). The type of pet is important because some pets (Tank) will taunt whenever possible if the caster wants them to or not. The stance the caster was in is important because the defensive stance adds hate to every attack / skill / spell used by the pet. The tier of the stance the caster has is important because this will increase the hate gain of the pet through either DPS increase or Hate gain increase. __________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your food stamps will be stopped effective March 1992 because we received notice that you passed away. May God bless you. You may reapply if there is a change in your circumstances."--Department of Social Services, Greenville, South Carolina

11-21-2005, 11:26 PM	#11
Dart Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Sounds like the mage was doing it by choice or he/she was an idiot. Either way after the first time of you telling him/her to wait a couple of seconds to send pet, and they dont listen,then let the pet tank, and Conj re summon it ever fight. If the pet ends up tanking as good or better than you, well then back to square one for the guards. Conj pets are crazy, as a warlock I often dup with one. We can duo Sanc, Vault, cache, Heroics level 60'sh. We even cleared Roost one time but couldnt take two of the named (Casters) just too much damage if one of us got agro or snare broke before we could kill it. In short the mage was sending the pet to early it sounds like, and yes their pets are agro machines, our conj (level 5 can gank agro off our 60th MT paly at times, even while im in the MT group and hes using his agro sponge on me. __________________ Phinny - 68th Warlock of Permafrost Thunderfoot - 70th Bruiser Permafrost You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!" -Monty Python's Holy Grail-

11-19-2005, 07:00 AM	#1
prand Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3	I was just in a group with a 47 mage and a couple lower levels. The mage pet kept pullin agro. I thought maybe i wasnt bein on the ball here, so i pulled a single heroic and thought ill go all out this time. So, atk taunt yell htl...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] pet has agro before htl finishes. Im lv 47 guard how can a pet pull and hold aggro? If this is my fault someone please help me out. if this is design [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] a pet can out play a pc? Please let me know what im doin wrong ..playstyle or even playing . thx

11-19-2005, 07:17 AM	#3
prand Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3	So basically this is design, that a PET is a better agro holder than a pc? Really? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] i really thought it was my fault somehow.

11-19-2005, 07:27 AM	#6
prand Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3	Thx never thought of that mine are adept1s and app4s. Thx ill look into that

11-20-2005, 09:31 AM	#8
Ladicav Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 212	You forget to mention what colour cons the mobs you were fighting. If they were yellows or even oranges, you will get a good number of taunt resists, and HTL line of spells does not activate everytime the mob hits you. If you were fighting higher level mobs, then you are SOL, since taunt resists are included by design. Remember Guardians are unsung heroes and excel at hate generation and maintenance, more so than any other fighter, according to Moorgard anyway. The reality is not even close to this, as you seem to have experienced.

11-21-2005, 03:26 AM	#9
Timzil Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Sounds like you had a mage who was pretty dumb. Hate management is a group activity.

11-21-2005, 06:58 AM	#10
LadyDor Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 34	I am a Guardian and was (am) having that happen to me as well. However, as I asked numerous casters to hold off a bit I have been told every time by them AND the healers"no, you let the pet tank". They tell me this is because both the pets master and the healer can heal the pet and that the pet(s) have better Hit Points than I do as well. Apparently my job as "unsung hero" is simply to buff the group shrug. For the record the average pet DOES seem to have better HP than I do (and I'm wearing a full set of Pristine Ebon with all imbuable pieces imbued) even when 3 or 4 levels lower than I am. So, basically I just let the Caster send in the pet to pull (no extra mobs agro that way it seems), target the pet to assist it, and whomp away. Occasionally I do pop off a spell to intercept a bit of damage for the pet (in tougher fights) so as to help a bit on Power conservation from the heals. It's a different take on what I thought (expected) my role as Guardian would be when I chose this class to BETA and play from day one....but it keeps me gaming instead of rerolling and loosing the 36 lvls I worked to get prior to LU 13.

11-22-2005, 04:04 PM	#12
Lth Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7	This actually happend to me yesterday in CT. I let the pet have the agro. It died. Let the conj. get the agro. when close to death I used Rescue (adept3) and got agro. After the fight I told him to control his pet. Its waste of healers mana pool, and a bloody great tank (me).Lthil - 46 Guardian (Splitpaw)

11-24-2005, 05:34 AM	#13
Chog General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	LadyDor wrote: I am a Guardian and was (am) having that happen to me as well. However, as I asked numerous casters to hold off a bit I have been told every time by them AND the healers"no, you let the pet tank". LadyDor As a healer that has grouped with many pet classes I can say pets make horrid tanks if fighting anything equal level or higher. Give me a player tank over a pet tank to heal any day of the week. __________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your food stamps will be stopped effective March 1992 because we received notice that you passed away. May God bless you. You may reapply if there is a change in your circumstances."--Department of Social Services, Greenville, South Carolina

11-25-2005, 04:43 PM	#14
Baldaena Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 247	interesting thread about pet's agro : http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tips&message.id=5519 What need to be checked : - type of pet (fighters have taunt) - stance of pet (defensive stance generates more hate) - buff on pet (there are damage shield or proc which generates a lot of hate) Besides the players have to ask the pet to "GUARD HERE" otherwise the pet will attak as soon as possible..

11-27-2005, 01:52 AM	#15
Seth General Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New-Brunswick, Canada Posts: 28	Put Assuage on the pet. End of story.

11-27-2005, 04:31 AM	#16
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	"What need to be checked : - type of pet (fighters have taunt) - stance of pet (defensive stance generates more hate) - buff on pet (there are damage shield or proc which generates a lot of hate)" Assassin is usually more hate then fighter. Offensive is usually more hate then defensive. best bet is taunt a lot or assauge the pet. __________________ www.spiralguild.com

11-28-2005, 02:28 AM	#17
Baldaena Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 247	oups, I have misread the post of Redorious, it's defensive buff and not defensive stance... indeed, offensive stance = More hate.

11-28-2005, 06:50 AM	#18
aislynn00 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 560	Dananeb wrote: Keeping agro on the tank is a group effort now, dps needs to adjust to you as you have to try and keep up with them. Or the group could simply get a paladin with Amends (Adept III), in which case everyone could cut loose without ever experiencing an instance of aggro loss. Let me correct that statement of yours, Dananeb: "If you stick to a guardian tank, keeping agro on the tank is a group effort now." There. Much better, now. __________________ Karnoz Deviation Splitpaw

11-28-2005, 06:53 AM	#19
aislynn00 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 560	Oh, and for the record, my Adept III/Master II taunts notwithstanding, I still occasionally lose aggro to my 57th level conjuror friend's pets. Which is so ridiculous, I would laugh if only I didn't feel like crying. Message Edited by aislynn00 on 11-27-2005 05:54 PM __________________ Karnoz Deviation Splitpaw