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10-11-2005, 09:02 AM
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#1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18
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Since this particular board seems to only have attracted those who hate thier character, I feel obligated to create a post expressing my likes with the new Guardian. No doubt pretty much everyone else here will disagree with me, and to keep from getting flamed any more than I am likely too, I will try to refrain from posting my opinion as to why I feel that they are incorrect in the majority of their complaints. Guardian +'s Power Consumption Pre LU13 I was endlessly out of power...soloing...grouping...or Raid Tanking. A typical day soloing consisted of draining all my power on one mob, then standing around for 2 minutes to regen. Rinse repeat. Grouping required extensive use of the manastone, or forego trying to help with any DPS and just stand their taunting. Raid tanking you were left with no choice but to limit to taunts, use Manastone, slivers, hearts, breeze, and get fed by anyone willing. Anything else and bob the epic was killing softies. Post LU13 my power pool is perfectly balanced. Whilst soloing I can pretty much lay into a mob with all my "DPS" and spam the abilities as fast as they refresh for a full 1.5 to 2 minutes...and still have power to spare. As a 52, I can easily take down anything solo 58 and down. On the high level mobs I will generally have 1/3 power left, on the even cons I have well over 1/2 power left and can move on to the next without waiting for regen. FINALLY, I can solo without going insane...I'm no warlock mowing down fields of greens and blues, but I could easily get faction solo by killing 400 Yellows in Maj'dul in just 2 nights time. Not bad for a meatshield. Pre-LU13 it would have taken me a week. Agro Pre-LU13 this was dropdead simple. Taunt Taunt Group Buff Group Buff Taunt Taunt Taunt....go get a pepsi and come back when the fight is over. Any Guardian that lost agro to even level group members didn't know what they were doing. I think agro management pre patch was a bit boring. Post-LU13 this is still pretty simple, but the heal agro has made things a bit more challenging. Methodology has changed significantly, but with a little practice, this is still really pretty simple to do. Solos, groups, multiple groups. Not a problem really. And in the off chance you do lose agro, we have an awesome "OH Crap" spell in rescue now. Every 10 minutes and we can generate 2500 hate and move up 3 positions. Softies...feel free to nuke your head off, Yahkin has the mobs. It's a blast challenging mage classes to take agro from me and keep it. Mitigation/Avoidance Pre-LU13 was sickening really. If it conned white or below...solo or heroic...didn't matter...it was nothing more than a nuisance to us as we ran around. I could wander around KOS zones harvesting and collecting to my hearts content. That wasn't plate I was wearing, that was a fricken force-field. We didn't need invis, we just didn't care about the mobs. Post-LU13. Woot! A kos mob is now a danger to me...what a concept. White's stun me pretty regularly, greens and blues rarely do, and oranges are off the chart. While grouping, I actually need a healer or two. I need a mage class to put some mit buffs on me....maybe a reactive damage shield or two as well. I can't run up to anything with impunity knowing that he will only do a small amount of damage to me and my non healer mystic can keep up just fine...even with his broken wards. Give me those wards. Buff me to 3k Mit and 7k HP. Raiding - Old raid mobs are still off balance with the change, so they do some serious damage...many of them are still doable now. Definately more of a challenge, but that has more to do with changing all classes but not the mobs. Every new raid mob that I have had the chance to fight has been pretty similiar to how old raiding was. A well balanced raid did well. The MT group makeup has changed...but still very similiar. Balance with other fighters Pre-LU13 we were it. You wanted the best tank, call us. Post-LU13 well, I can't speak to all of the other fighter classes, but so far I have not seen any other class tanking as well as us. I do believe that they were balanced to our tanking ability, and once they learn HOW to tank that they will rival us for positions as group MT. But the learning curve is steep from what I've seen. They are so used to being off tank or just utility that they don't know what they are doing. If groups have a choice...they are still going with us. The same holds true for raiding. I'd be quite surprised if any serious raiders have dumped the Guard MT for another class...and if they have, I would argue that the reason was not a class difference, but rather a player ability issue. This seems to be much of the focus of the naysayers, but I really feel that they are selling themselves short. Playability Pre-LU13 we were cookie cutter. Deck yourselve out in ebon, get a nice 1 handed weapon, shiny brass shield, a doll or two, and a couple ruby rings. Woot, 8kHP in a group and 10 in a raid. Taunt Taunt Taunt Buff Buff Taunt Taunt...woot, you are an uber guardian...just like the 150 others that look just like you. Post-LU13 ah...a challenge. Cool, now our ability to change tactics, adjust to multiple group pulls, deal with stuns, rescue softies, etc. is quite important. No longer can I be half asleep and tank or I will find myself fighting heroics with no DPS all alone. Player skill means something. Using the right abilities at the right time means something. Timing target changes with the mage casting is important. Knowing when it's ok to let an add run to the warlock who is about to lay waste to it with devastation is knowledge that makes you a better guard than the next guy. Taking the time to pull with a Debuff matters. Knowing who to put specific buffs on can make or break an encounter. All in all, I feel that LU13 really brought new life into our class while providing a role for the other fighters as well. I love a challenge, so making my job as MT a bit harder has been rejuvinating. Please consider what people are saying here, but please also temper your response to their complaints. I guess my sole suggestion would be this: If you decide to add utility to us, make those things only usable when we are not the target of an enemy. In other words, if we are MT'ing. Then we are what we are now. If we are supporting someone else tanking, then give us some utility. "How can you think about buffing at a time like this?"  Message Edited by Yahkin on 10-10-2005 10:03 PM
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10-11-2005, 09:32 AM
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#2 |
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Community Relations
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 406
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Yahkin, Right now I'm gathering data so be it good or bad it's all welcome. I appreciate all the input on this situation as it's you all that help make the game better with all your creative and well thought out input. Thank you again!
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Regards, Joel "Raijinn" Sasaki 
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10-11-2005, 10:14 AM
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#3 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 167
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Yahkin, no one is trying to deny the CU didn't need to happen and in some respects most of us will agree that things are a bit better overall. What we're seeing here though is the boiling down of an age-old question... who are you going to take for your team? Most Guardians these days are surviving and leveling due to their guild. By now most of the general populace has figured out the changes and have adjusted accordingly, meaning that most everyone understands that Guardians simply aren't as good as the other Fighter sub-classes. The either have better Utility (Berserkers, Paladins), better damage (Bruisers, SKs), or better avoidance (Monks). Mitigation is pretty much out the window because all plate tanks are equal in that regard. So what do Guardians have? Well, for about 30 seconds we can raise our Mitigation by about 10%. Oooh, so instead of getting hit by that Epic for 5000 damage I'm getting hit for 4500! Oh! Oh! And don't forget that by doing so we also decrease our DPS (which is already very low) and root outselves in place! Isn't that exciting! I'm tired of this. I'm tired of the arguments, of the Guardians who aren't looking at the bigger picture, and of the fact that the devs seem to be missing our points. We need help. On the baseball diamond of EQ2, Guardians are that skinny kid with glasses that you take because there's no one else left to fill out the team. And then you stick him in Right Field. Do you like being that kid? I don't.
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Regards, Trayson, Guardian of Gnomish Marine Corps Writer in Progress Current Project: Daryn. 21k written out of 100k planned. |
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10-11-2005, 10:18 AM
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#4 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 167
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Well there ya go. Nothing wrong with the guardian class. You can go blow off some other forum now.
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10-11-2005, 10:18 AM
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#5 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,792
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I believe its safe to say 60%+ Of all Guardians are unhappy.
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10-11-2005, 10:20 AM
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#6 |
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Community Relations
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 406
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I'm looking at all views on the situations so no ones input is more or less important than anyone else's. Please keep these threads from degenerating as I'd like to see everyone's views on the situations at hand. Thank you.
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Regards, Joel "Raijinn" Sasaki
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10-11-2005, 10:36 AM
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#7 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 167
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While you're looking at the data, how bout buffing guardian DPS 10 percent now. Everyone knows a guardian revamp is going to happen. Give us something to work with during the 2 months that it's going to take to get around to proper fixes.
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10-11-2005, 10:46 AM
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#8 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,792
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My Thoughts, Coming from a Raid MT, MA, and even a space filler (sadly yes on some raids. Lol).
DPS: Personally, I feel our DPS did go up a little, but not too noticable really. We never did put out much, it was always considered pathetic, now its terrible rather than pathetic.  Utility: Umm, We don't really have any. If you consider are "Protecting our group" skills utility, please re-look them as they aren't too useful. The idea of the Guardian always was (and IMHO should still be) the tank that takes the least ammount of damage, the biggest, baddest tank there is. By using our 'utility' CA's, we are essenstially making the group take MORE damage. Not only ourself (with un-mitigated damage flowing to us), but also whoever we are re-directing the damage from. In old world raids I actually did make use of this (/sigh.) When we were to raid something like.. Say Borxx, with a nasty AE. I was actually put in group 3 or something simply to increase the groups HP. When the coercer was going down in G3, I through everything I had on him to prevent him from dying (But in the end really just killing the both of us). Raid Use: We aren't good enough dps to be considered DPS. If Monks/Bruisers/Zerkers/SKs/Paladins can tank mobs just as well as us, what is the point of having a Guardian in a raid? Be buff bots? In raids we are useless if we aren't the main tank. We can't be the main tank if we aren't the best tank. We lack DPS, We lack useful skills in raids (seeing as how stuns are useless now, we lost our power drains, we can only re-direct and die for other group members). Why even put one guardian in a raid? What about 2? Definetly not 2. Where you could put countless of the same DPS classes or other fighter classes in the raid because they actually are useful. Tankage: Well, We lost most of this. The key ability of the Guardian was to be the best tank, tower above all with our low DPS, big towershield and took hits, Nothing more than a meatshield. All of us knew that was our destined role from day 1 and enjoyed it. If we didn't, we knew to re-roll because thats what guardians were and their job entirely. Aggro Management: We are supposdly "the best" at holding aggro. IMHO I dissagree, we have 1 skill that makes us able to hold aggro and its MD. MD has a root (I have all master 1 taunts, taunting assault, protect, deafen, vengeful strike), anyways. This root on MD really does kill the skill. Pull, Root, Pull, Root, Pull, Root. Needless to say (I have all Mast1 Taunts), Chain-Spamming them as soon as they are up it doesn't matter, without MD up we lose aggro, and we lose it fast. Protect needs to be heavily upped, MD root needs to be taken away, Taunting Assault needs the cast time reduced back to what it was before (or I would rather see it be an OOC(out of encounter) aoe hitting everything around it, if that happened it could keep the same cast time). IMHO ATM Zerkers can hold aggro best in groups due to their huge AoE skills, Bruisers can hold aggro best on single targets due to their raw damage. As long as I can hold the aggro on the mob, I am relativly happy. This is just the main thoughts I have about my ...err Guardians.. the class that is retiring more and more every day. If you read anything in this post read: What is the point of having one guardian in a raid, will guardians even be invited to raids anymore? |
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10-11-2005, 12:11 PM
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#9 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 644
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10-11-2005, 12:15 PM
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#10 |
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General
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 69
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Taking 5 healers to Sotl and doing it with 18 overall is overpowered( pre Cu 13). Either you guys need to be the best tank or give you dps, but better yet just make you guys have a slight edge so people actually want to have you on a raid to tank.
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 3rd level 70 Berserker on Nektulos |
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10-11-2005, 12:33 PM
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#11 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,507
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The problem is, they won't give us a slight edge.. they gave it to BRAWLERS instead... brawlers get near double the dps, a slight tanking edge, and tons of group utility. Ho hum... We give up our DPS to tank well.. why can't we tank well, and not worse then bruce lee and friends?
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10-11-2005, 12:36 PM
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#12 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 79
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Im sorry but my hats off to whoever took 5 healers and 18 people total into SOTL. They did a bloody good job, however that zone was still a big big challenge for my guild, with a full raid we had just got as far as beating Atrius. I was never immortal as a guardian, I died repeatedly on our first attempt at Darathar, we finally after about 5 hours of learning and retrying different tactics got him down to 20% before we were all naked. I will never get another shot as that was just before the CU. We were gradually working our way up the ladder in difficulty of raids, it was by no means easy but with our less than perfect group makeups that we had available to us we did it. Sure it was easy for the uber guilds who have all the classes available to them, hundreds of hours of raiding experience and many masters/adept3's and fabled's that they earned over the course of time, but they had encounters like krathuuk to keep them entertained. The point of my post is Im sick of being told how easy I had it pre CU, I wasn't immortal but I did at least feel like my character could be a hero at times (from a rp perspective) now he just feels like me standing on screen in some tin armor that gets smacked around as I would in rl by a giant (whatever).
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10-11-2005, 12:52 PM
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#13 |
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General
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 69
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I think we started with 24 but people were leaving and one healer left like as soon as we zoned in. First time we did it we got venekor down to 8% with 18 people half of which were naked or close to it. I was doing most of the damage due to 4 people on the totem.
At 60 tanking should be Mitigation Guard>paladin>berserker=SK>monk>bruiser but give guards and paladins about 3.5-5% more mitigation than Sk's and zerkers. Avoidance Monk>Bruisers>Sk's=berserkers>paladin=Guards but give zerkers and SK's 3.5-5% more avoidance then guards and pallies. So would make tanking equal if not close to equal.
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3rd level 70 Berserker on Nektulos |
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10-11-2005, 12:58 PM
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#14 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 259
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The balance of avoidance / mit fixxes nothing. Avoiding a hit entirely is better than cutting off a few % off a hit fyi. IMO the things tuna posted about special skills monk vs guardian is where you see alot of bs. Resist gear is highly important now so is wis for fighters. Would like to see resist for fighters shifted to sta or str personally. Also you can read moorgard post sevin why those numbers dont fix anything. Your basically listing things how they are but you dont take into credit skill utility dps etc.
Message Edited by blueduckie on 10-11-2005 02:01 AM |
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10-11-2005, 01:01 PM
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#15 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,507
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*also to be noted. All the avoid buffs now.. make your avoid X % better then it already is. So a guard has 20% avoid, a monk has 60%. This buff that guards get at 60 to make a target players avoid 50% better then it already is.. makes another guard go up to 30% avoidance, but makes a monk go up to 90% avoidance... Totally unbalanced the way they have avoidance change by buffs.
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10-11-2005, 01:10 PM
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#16 |
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General
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 69
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Who cares about DPS , were tanks not scouts. With utility warrior classes get screwed period. I have three group buffs(one that is broken), thus leaving me with two at least you have self buffs besides the two we zerkers get which last about 1 fight and you have to wait three fights later to use again. Plus I use my intervene on my mushroom pet since I would rather not take another fighters damage.(bonus 43 AGI that helps a little when soloing). I have on other buff that is worthless cause the dps modifier on the group buff that is weaker takes place of the stronger on that is M2 quality. Why should I explain dps when we know who has it and who doesn't. Utility is easy to see with brawlers and crusaders having more, while like I said earlier warriors get screwed on. And how do you have 20% avoidance, unless you run around shieldless when tanking for a group, Fully buffed I get to 49.5% avoidance, which is about 30% more then you exagerated at having though it is dumb that your lvl 60 buff does that for monks but not other mitigation tanks. Message Edited by Spike92 on 10-11-2005 02:13 AM Message Edited by Spike92 on 10-11-2005 02:14 AM
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3rd level 70 Berserker on Nektulos |
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10-11-2005, 02:49 PM
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#17 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 259
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That is the whole point Sevin. SoE devs have made it clear they want tanking balanced. However they cant legitamtly do this to be actually balanced. However things they can do is not toss a favored type of physical dmg such as brawlers who take less dps from a mob by gving them best dmg reduction special abilities also. It is relevant on dps / utility because to be teqnical a brawler shouldnt do more dmg should just swing faster but not as hard. However i didnt pick a guardian to be dps. I picked it to tank and hold aggro. Our single target aggro is about 1/3 - 1/2 the capability of a brawlers. This is a huge cripple on a raid. Also our abilties to cut down dmg etc are insufficent compared to a brawler. So we take more dmg across the board. Also dont forget monks still have a high wis buff which helps alot when resists is highly crucial for raids now. All of this adds up. Your avoidance / mit numbers dont work tho because in order for avoidance tanking to work mit has to be with in a certain range for all fighters. This the problem with them trying to balance. They really should closen up the gaps. Raising brawler mit / lowering avoidance and raising plate tanks shield blocking some. So dps taken becomes more balanced. I do not agree that a brawler should have more utility. They get dps over us that is all it should be. Crusaders should be high utility which they are. They made brawlers the ideal tank set up. A brawler with good gear that can boost his resists and keep mit decent is going to be the over all best tank choice in most likely every raid. Some tweaking needs to be set up. Tower of Stone should be a set time frame like tsunami IMO. It should shield block all frontal dmg and set off shield procs each time for 12 sec. It would be even to monk 360 tsunami. I also think each fighter should get a type like that. Just my opinion tho. I think sk's should be a reactive lifetap based off % of dmg taken like 50% of dmg done is lifetapped out of the mob so it does dmg and covers half the dmg taken. Paladins should do something like heal entire group for 50% of all dmg type taken including spells etc. I dont feel any of that is over powering. Thats just my 2 cents tho i feel all fighters should have gotten a equal tanking bonus while sk paladin could be well used outside of tanking to benefit also sk adding offense while paladin adds a more defensive wave. Over all they didnt balance skills well and the new special skills are very disappointing when comparing to a monk. Hopefully some things get tweaked and changed but from devs word of mouth i am not holding my breath because alot dont seem to feel guardians need anything. And we also have pro Yahtin or whatever acting like we are cream of crop and are totally balanced to others. So it is hard to say what will come or what the over all consensus will be. |
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10-11-2005, 03:52 PM
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#18 |
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General
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 46
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Tunaboo why dont you research other classes before you make misguided and uninformed statements. The problem is, they won't give us a slight edge.. they gave it to BRAWLERS instead... brawlers get near double the dps, a slight tanking edge, and tons of group utility. Ho hum... First off we get one, ONE group buff that slightly boosts damage. Second we get a mez thats useless in a group. Third we got a short duration fear. If as a bruiser im using either my fear or mez while grouped something is wrong with my group. Neither of these last any length of time. By the time you target and cast it on a mob and switch back to main mob they are broke so I dont call that utility. People like you are fueling this flame war with uninformed statements. I raid every night and every night I am MA with a guardian as Mt. He holds agro on the big guys while me and rest of raid take out smaller mobs. I took agro off of him on rognog who is a blue con to me and got 2 shotted after he had been tanking him for 5 minutes and never dropped below yellow. Fact is avoidance is like gambling. You might get lucky or you may not but let me tell you if we dont get lucky its over cause we get hit mega hard. Tons of utility huh? This is getting old. All you people do is assume things. Why dont you study up before typing anything causei t makes you look stupid when all you do is spew untruths and assumptions. |
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10-11-2005, 04:14 PM
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#19 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,808
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Thank you, For what its worth here is my view on things...from a small group MT perspective. AGGRO: Aggro is just fine..I really can't complain about my ability to hold aggro and keep mobs off my groupmates in anything ive attempted so far. Removing ROOT effect from HTL line would be a nice bone to throw us. DPS: DPS seems ok when im grouped...When soloing/duoing it is lacking...not by much but lacking...I have often found myself saying..."If I only had 1 more high dmg attack". It could be a result of too many resists...maybe that would be the first place to look. TANKING: Mitigation IMHO isnt working correctly...Cant really say specifically but I seem to be mitigating against a BLUE mob what my persona says I should against a WHITE con. Resists are big concern of mine. Across the board they dont seem to match up well against the massive non-trauma mobs do. Maybe its the mobs that need tweaking..I dont know but its extremely hard to reach a adequate level of resists in most groups im in. Avoidance would be ok if Mitigation/Resists worked better. UTILITY/"Everything else" This is where I believe the Guardian class is suffering the most. Our "utility" as described by SOE just doesnt match up to that of the other fighters. Especially in single group situations like mine...The utility of the other fighters help them solo better and are most useful in smaller groups whereas mine just isnt. I have nothing besides my tanking stats, my DPS to use when soloing....whereas they have a few "flashy" tricks that actually make a difference. SUGGESTIONS: -Take a good look at mitigation and make sure its actually working the way it should then perhaps up plate mitigation across the board by 10% or so. -Remove the ROOT portion of our HTL line and our 30sec buffs. Even a large snare would be better -Maybe give us 1 more DMG art to use -Add a "stun" proc component to our Stances. With the recent changes to Raids this would only be useful in groups and really useful when soloing. -Add a "increase to stun resist" bonus to using a Tower Shield. -Take a good look at our protection buffs...they just dont work in practice like they do on paper. Refelction, using mitigation, not sure what but something needs to be fixed. If protection buffs is to be our nitch then it really needs to be something worth using across all levels of play...solo-duo-group-raid -Give a larger DPS boost to our Offense stance...something that is noticable...even giving it a larger defense penalty to balance things out. When I am not MT or just out killing lowbie mobs for quests, i dont need my Defense, i just need to DPS. And finally something that isnt really "Guardian specific" but nevertheless important is gear. We need a much large variety of gear to pick from...we are 100% gear based class yet we essentially share gear with Clerics and Crusadors...its hard to focus ones character on specific stats when the gear is designed to meet the needs of a very different set of classes.
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10-11-2005, 04:18 PM
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#20 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 35
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Why do all the monks and bruisers come here defending their class. We are not asking for a Bruiser or a monk nerf. We are asking to be brought up to the level or close to a Monk or Bruiser. You guys far exceed any fighter class. The whole purpose of a revamp is to make classes even. And they couldnt have been any farther from the truth. Here is a great test: Both Guardian and Monk are level 52. I logged into my Guardian last night and tanked a solo Red Piranha in DOF. No buffs. At the end of the fight I have 3/4 Health, and 1/2 my power. I logged into a friends Bruiser last night, and tanked the same con fish, with no buffs. At the end of the fight I have 99% of my health, and 95% of my mana. The fish was killed almost 4 times as fast, and for the first time ever I thought about making a bruiser cause they just rock. This is a simple test for SOE, the DEVS and anyone else who has a Guardian and Bruiser friend. You will see the Bruiser far outscore the guardian, which makes the guardian next to useless. Again if being even is the key here, lets make it even. Right now its a huge gap.
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10-11-2005, 05:29 PM
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#21 |
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Tester
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 498
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Re: Raijinn - Not All Guardians Feel There Are Major Problems Title says it all. Problem is, the only ones that dont see a problem are the ones decked out in fabled and master CAs Sunrayn, 41 guardian, leader of The Noble Kindred--Test
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10-11-2005, 05:34 PM
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#22 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 125
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I'm going to have to disagree with power consumption being adequate. All that was pointed out in the OP was power pertaining to soloing, but in a group i find my power to hit lows very quickly. I have done tests, and i've seen at least another guardian posting the same, that the HTL spells appear to be consuming power over time. If you find a grey mob, any type, turn off auto-attack but put up a HTL spell you'll notice your power decreasing over time, even though you're just standing there. Pre-cu i found the same thing with the HTL spells, so i never used them because i ran out of power so easily, noticably different than when i didn't use them. Now i feel pretty much required to use them to hold aggro, but after one cycle of abilities i'm at 20% power, so i have to manage the rest of the battle, typically just taunting. If the HTL spells are supposed to be draining our power, please put it in the description. Otherwise please fix this.
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10-11-2005, 06:12 PM
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#23 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,792
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Not quite, Most people are happy with how guardians are for groupping, but HORRIBLE for raiding, most of the raiders are unhappy and they generally are decked out in fabled, etc. |
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10-11-2005, 06:22 PM
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#24 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18
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Re-read the post. Staying alive in raid was obviously hard. But your job was braindead simple. Taunt Taunt Taunt Group Buff Group Buff Taunt Taunt Taunt Manastone. As for your comment on which raids I have done, you are just plain wrong. I did every raid mob that you did, and would argue more since LU13. It'd be pointless really, but we can list them if you want. As for our immortality, again, re-read the post. Not many other classes could run around by themselves through con mobs and just ignore them. I was able to make the feerrot run for jboots at lvl36 without invis. Most mobs were orange and red...I'd say that's pretty overpowered.
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10-11-2005, 06:24 PM
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#25 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 351
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What are you talking about? Unless a mob drained me ie AL or Nagalik I had 80%+ power after each raid pre lu 13. I never used manastone at a raid...what were you raiding exactly? If you look at each class fighters have a pretty low power pool, i'm sure soloing your not burning all your power but then again your not usuing single taunt every 8 seconds aoe taunt every 20 seconds or any taunts for that matter. While xp'ing I had botm, prismatic regen, was drinking and wearing gebs and my power still sucks. I don't think power issue is a guardian thing, a monk in my guild is also constantly low on power while tanking I think it's a fighter thing.
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10-11-2005, 06:43 PM
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#26 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 34
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Great post Yahkan. I myself find that LU13 are pretty sweet. Sure agro management may be a little harder if that, but is funnner now, and isnt that what most of yall want to, to have fun while playing a great game. For all the people who say Guardians are not the best, not the perfered, tank is just bieng a little ignorant. Sure monks have avoidence and bruisers heav dps but when they actuall do get hit they get hit HARD. When i get home from work most time i hit the LFG button and start inviteing having no problem getting a group. Last night i grouped with 2 lvl 50 Bruisers a 55 assassin 48 swashy and a 43 Templar. We were lvling off 48-52 ^^^'s. I lost agro a couple times but got it back easily, in fact the only one that died the whole night was the templar and that was due to a 50 ^^^ add and the temp ran towards the wall and the mob was unseeable to be able to taunt. Other than that we were perfect. I dont know what most other Guardians are complaining about all the raids ive been on, a Guard has been tanking. Show me a any other fighting class that can tank a x4 mob. I normally group with a 56 paladin, we have a normal group we do at late at nights, and hes MT which i dont care were doing things like scornfeathers roost, heroic cache, shimmering citadel, and living tombs easily im all for but when i get to his lvl im MT. But till then im somewhat DPS, i know we might not be the best DPS but when im duel wielding 2 cobalt leafblades and im buffed with offensive stance i do mad damage for a guard. When a guard is tanking they dont need to DPS they need to keep agro and not let anyone steal it and die. That is the role of a guardian. So overall i like the changes it makes the actuall good Guards rise above the ones that have been lvl 50 for months thinking they are the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] but really they just used to spam taunts and buffs no they have to do some work and they get [Removed for Content]. As for power pool, i like not running out every fight and have to wait to pull again. I am open to comments and im NOT TRYING TO FLAME.
Melissaford LvL 50 Guardian The Fury Council Lavastorms First LvL 30 Guild |
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10-11-2005, 06:55 PM
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#27 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 408
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Well, it is certainly human nature that some people are going to like the new changes. I have a feeling I know why you like the changes, but I will just get lambasted for telling the truth so I will only say that I am glad you like the new changes.
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10-11-2005, 06:57 PM
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#28 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 243
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Good job OP. I agree with most said. I do feel that a small dps improvement or some adjusting on our protection line of spells tho... I read in another thread that when our interception type spells work, we take the full dmg of the attack minus our PROTECTOR's mitigation. I would like to see our mitigation taken into account as we are the ones taking a bullet so to speak.
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Grissil Blockhead, Guildleader Smoke "If you build a family with snakes, then expect to be bitten" |
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10-11-2005, 07:11 PM
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#29 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 34
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GO ahead Prynn tell me what u think im not the kinda guy to flame at anyone for any reason. Like i said im open to comments :smileyhappy:
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10-11-2005, 08:06 PM
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#30 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18
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Total agreement on the non mitigated protection lines. If damage is being passed to both parties unmitigated, then this is obviously a problem....just like the Mystic wards pre-LU13 were a problem. As for power consumption, I'd love to hear how you had 80% power at the end of a raid. Take Drayek for example. I can't think of a time pre-LU13 that I didn't have to manastone to have enough power to keep the taunts rolling on him.
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