Compiled List of Guardian Issues (thankfully short)

[pohs]

Threads like this seem to be the popular trend nowadays, and if this will help the developers find and fix issues, I'm happy to do my part.  I can personally vouch for errors level 30 and below.  I'll try and keep this list updated with anything else you guys add.

 

 

Bugs:

 

Ruin, Ferocious Charge  (Fixed on Test Server)

The description for this spell says that it deals damage over time, but all it ever does is an additional 15 damage.  The new extended info shows there should be an XX pt. damage over time, but the interval listed is 0.0 seconds, which most likely explains why this never goes off.

 

Allay  (Fixed)

App4 allay does not work....at all.  No maintained buff, no concentration slot, nada.

 

Taunting Challenge, Slates Invigorating Threat, and Vengeful Strike

In the detailed description it says it increases threat position by X positions.  This should probably increase threat level (not position) by X.

 

Desperate Flurry/Rush

Upgrade past apprentice 3 and the detailed information will say its only a 3% haste buff (vs. the 20+% app1).  Unknown if this is just a description bug or actual bug.

 

Rescue

I've been in groups of two where this has failed to give me aggro.  Sometimes it does give me agro, but that could be just because of the additonal threat level increase it applies.  Does increasing threat positions actually do anything?  Are there some mobs that ignore thier hate list (like undead in eq1)?   If Taunting Challenge description is not lying and it is actually trying to increase my threat position, then threat position adjustment is definately is not working as intended and should be investigated. 

 

Slates Invigorating Threat

Description says it increases guardians attack rate, but the detailed information lists this ability as a slow / AC +.

 

Bury

This ability has blue background icon, denoting it should not be encounter locked, however it is.  Should have a different icon or be encounter-locked.

 

 

Annoyances:

 

Smothering Cry and ALL aoe taunts over 26

Because of the stifle side-effect this cannot be used on raid mobs.  Could raid mobs be made immune to stun/mez/stifle some other way than not letting us use any spells with those side effects?  This is an annoyance to many different classes. 

 

Maintained Debuffs

Many of our combat arts have additional side effects such as lowering resitance or attack speed.  Few of these like Wound and Concussion show us a maintained debuff icon so we know how long the effect lasts, but there is a large amount of combat arts that don't (Ruin, Bury, Shatter, etc) .

 

Single Target Buff Duration

A large portion of the single target buffs in the game have been changed to 15min, however in the last patch ours were shortened to 2:18.   Is this intentional?  I assumed these buffs were to be maintained on allies for the duration of combat and especially when we are not the main tank.  I can understand the damage absorbtion buffs being short, since they seem to be intended for emergency situacions, but Allay and Stand Firm are actually buffing the target.  If they are intended for emergency use only, could the cast time be shortened?  It is usually better to focus on regaining aggro instead of putting emgency buffs on victum.

 

Damage Absorbtion

Combart arts like Intervene and Sentinal let the guardian absorb some of the damage the intended target would've taken, however, the damage taken by the guardian is unmitigated.  We are one of the best damage mitigation classes, but our "guarding" abilities could kill us because we cannot mitigate the damage, just abosrb it full force.

 

Form of the Rook

Spams chat window with "You cannot do that in your current form" if another form changing ability is cast on you (Ex: lion from druid)

 

 

Balance/Wishlist:

 

Shatter

This spell may be off by an order of magnitude.  It does about 40-50 damage and debuffs slashing AC 75-100.  I can understand if you don't want us to have 2000+ debuffs of scouts, but AC debuf of 750-1000 seems a little more reasonable.

 

The True Strike line and The Kick line

Power Cost/Damage ratio makes these spells much less useful than other lines.  They do not scale up well in later levels.

 

Stance Line and Call of...

The defensive buffs from our Stance line does not stack with the buff from any of the "Call of.." line group buffs.  Perhaps the effects should be different to prevent stacking waste.

 

Desperate Flurry -> Desperate Rush

The the haste buff from Flurry is 20%. 14 levels later, the haste buff from Rush is 23%.   The power increase means there is not a good reason to use Desperate Flurry over Desperate Rush.

 

Iron Will -> Iron Conviction

Though they are 14 levels apart, they both buff stamina the same amount.  The lower-level spell is cheaper to cast, thus there is no reason to use Iron Conviction ever.

Race Matters
Racial Traits Do make a major difference (Defense Skill Especially).  Moorguard previously posted that Defense skill was only noticable on green mobs.  Assuming this is true, which I don't, If you can buff +20 defense (4 levels) and other classes debuff a monster -20 attack (4 levels), that even con monster is suddenly looking like a green or grey, thus making Defense noticable even under Moorguards rationalization.

 

 

Message Edited by pohsyb on 03-01-2005 07:19 PM

[Loki_Asham]

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pohsyb wrote:

 

Bugs:

 

Allay

App4 allay does not work....at all.  No maintained buff, no concentration slot, nada.

---

Really?  I have App4 Allay, and I could swear it was showing concentration and a maintained buff in window when I was using it last night.

[pohs]

Ah ok, at one point it was busted, guess its fixed now.  Edited post

[knightinplaid]

Not soley a guardian issue but all tanks, but if you feel it worthy of being put on the list I'd love to have someone look into the encounter agro wipe bug.

 

Just a few of the threads we've gone over it in:

 

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=6516

 

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=6043

 

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=4812

[knightinplaid]

Another thing I'd like to see is more abilities given the "boot" HO icon. Right now all the ones we have are linked to the same 10 second time. We only have one chance to advance with it and because of our lower connect rate as tanks it's pretty common to blow chains.

[English Da Gua]

  Lvl 30 trait choice - Slates Invigorating Threat > Description says it increases guardians attack rate, but the detailed information lists this ability as a slow / AC +. I would still choose it, but this is a contradiction if nothing else. I have bugged it.

[ThramFalc]

Please add to your list the spells in similar lines with the same issues...

 

Slates Invigorating Threat and Vengeful Strike have the same issue as Taunting Challenge.

 

Ferocious Charge has the same issue as Ruin.

 

The numbers aren't important but when a dev reads this thread (and Blackguard has been responding to many bug lists of late), I want to make sure they look at all spells in a line and not just 1.

 

As for Rescue, I think the issue is that threat position is meaningless.  The few times Rescue gets agro is from the 440ish threat it provides.  Yes that means TC, Slates, and Vengeful all do nothing as far as threat is concerned!

 

We also have many arts which are simply lame... The True Strike line, The Kick line etc.  Not sure if its bug worthy but maybe they should be looked at in terms of benefit relative to power cost.  Invade costing 80+ power for 100 damage and an interrupt is ridiculous .

[TunaBoo]

ALL aoe taunts over 26 do not work on ^^^s including protect our 50 spell. Make sure to put that ALL of our aoe taunts are sucking.

[Kilg_]

Also, Rescue has a ridiculously long reuse time to make it any use (not to mention it hardly ever works, so not much of an emergency spell either)

[Morriz]

The reuse timer appears to be correct for Rescue, as it falls in line with the emergency spells of other classes (i.e. Evac), just the effect doesnt justify it.

[Jesper]

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pohsyb wrote:

Threads like this seem to be the popular trend nowadays, and if this will help the developers find and fix issues, I'm happy to do my part. I can personally vouch for errors level 30 and below. I'll try and keep this list updated with anything else you guys add.

Bugs:

Ruin

The description for this spell says that it deals damage over time, but all it ever does is an additional 15 damage. The new extended info shows there should be an 88 pt. damage over time, but the interval listed is 0.0 seconds, which most likely explains why this never goes off.

Allay (Fixed)

App4 allay does not work....at all. No maintained buff, no concentration slot, nada.

Taunting Challenge

In the detailed description it says it increases threat position by 274 positions. This should probably increase threat level (not position) by 274.

Desperate Flurry/Rush

Upgrade past apprentice 3 and the detailed information will say its only a 3% haste buff (vs. the 20+% app1). Unknown if this is just a description bug or actual bug.

Rescue

I've been in groups of two where this has failed to give me aggro. Sometimes it does give me agro, but that could be just because of the additonal threat level increase it applies. Does increasing threat positions actually do anything? Are there some mobs that ignore thier hate list (like undead in eq1)? If Taunting Challenge description is not lying and it is actually trying to increase my threat position, then threat position adjustment is definately is not working as intended and should be investigated.

Annoyances:

Smothering Cry

Because of the stifle side-effect this cannot be used on raid mobs. Could raid mobs be made immune to stun/mez/stifle some other way than not letting us use any spells with those side effects? This is an annoyance to many different classes.

Maintained Debuffs

Many of our combat arts have additional side effects such as lowering resitance or attack speed. Few of these like Wound and Concussion show us a maintained debuff icon so we know how long the effect lasts, but there is a large amount of combat arts that don't (Ruin, Bury, Shatter, etc) .

Single Target Buff Duration

A large portion of the single target buffs in the game have been changed to 15min, however in the last patch ours were shortened to 2:18. Is this intentional? I assumed these buffs were to be maintained on allies for the duration of combat and especially when we are not the main tank. I can understand the damage absorbtion buffs being short, since they seem to be intended for emergency situacions, but Allay and Stand Firm are actually buffing the target. If they are intended for emergency use only, could the cast time be shortened? It is usually better to focus on regaining aggro instead of putting emgency buffs on victum.

Damage Absorbtion

Combart arts like Intervene and Sentinal let the guardian absorb some of the damage the intended target would've taken, however, the damage taken by the guardian is unmitigated. We are one of the best damage mitigation classes, but our "guarding" abilities could kill us because we cannot mitigate the damage, just abosrb it full force.

Balance/Wishlist:

Shatter

This spell may be off by an order of magnitude. It does about 40-50 damage and debuffs slashing AC 75-100. I can understand if you don't want us to have 2000+ debuffs of scouts, but AC debuf of 750-1000 seems a little more reasonable.

Message Edited by pohsyb on 02-23-2005 08:24 PM

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Rescue does what its intended to do. Problem lies elsewhere. Reactive heals and I think Shamans wards both add agro to the recipient when they fire.So imagine you pull a group of mobs. caster starts his aoe nuke right on the get go (cause it takes so long to cast.. riight) and you get stiffled before you get your encounter taunt off. Now with a group ward or a group reactive heal the caster is now getting hit repeatedly for damage and firing the reactive heal/ward. Even if he does nothing the healer agro is sticking the monsters to him like glue. Its a problem with group reactive/ward spells not assigning agro correctly. (to the healer) It is being looked at at the moment so I would wait before crying foul about rescue.My safeguard description (adept 1) says I get 81% of the damage and none to the target. That is 19% mitigation buildt in right there. I would expect sentry to be better. So there is mitigation in the higher level abilities. Sentinel is a great upgrade to intervene if you compare the two abilities. So probably working as intended.Granbar Mountaintall40 Guardian/34 AlchemistSplitpaw server

[mochl]

Not just a Guardian issue but...

 

I use Form of the Rook when I MT, it puts me a head or two above the rest of the party and allows me a better vantage point when it comes to target selection. However, when using rook form (or when in lion or any other shape changing form) i am annoyed endlessly by this message "You cannot do that in your current form". I can be standing in one spot and my chat window will get 4 or 5 lines of that annoying message.

 

More of an annoyance but still.

 

Mochlod Thunderfrost 44 Guardian, Permafrost

[pohs]

Ok added a bunch of stuff.  I left out the single boot HO because I think its by design.  Other tanks have weaknesses too, for instnace, monk/bruiser has very few sword abilities, but multiple fists and boots.

 

If someone wants to list the other taunts beside smothering cry that don't work on raid mobs, I'll add them to the list by name.

Message Edited by pohsyb on 02-24-2005 09:35 AM

[Arpophyllum]

Thanks for this post! Covers all the issues that myself and friends have come across.

 

I've had the same problem with Rescue in small groups where it seems to have no effect. Also, the AoE thing is really deserving of a better explanation of the mechanics, is it bugged or do we just not have as clear an understand as we should?

[Arsen]

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TunaBoo wrote:
ALL aoe taunts over 26 do not work on ^^^s including protect our 50 spell. Make sure to put that ALL of our aoe taunts are sucking.

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IMO, this is one of the biggest issues affecting Guardians.  Most of us picked this class to be MT on Raids, and at the high end, not being able to use our high level taunts is a big hit.

 

 

Also I just wanted to add that the Kick line does seem fairly useful to me because of the fact that it interrupts your enemy.  It is tough to say whether that is enough to justify the power cost, but I definitely use the skill as a defensive measure to try to interrupt the enemy when you absolutely have to buy a couple seconds of breathing room.

Message Edited by Arsenal on 02-24-2005 11:51 AM

[RandomPlay]

I have only witnessed this issue firsthand on a guardian, but it probably impacts other classes - upgrading our spells from App1 to higher quality versions is not predictable.  It's too easy to use up a rare for minimal gain or spend alot of gold for an Adept book only to find out it was wasted money.  Some upgrades provide great benefit, others provide almost none.  It's a roll of the dice when buying Adepts, rares for ink, or even App 4's.

 

One example:

I had an App IV version of a Defense buff.  At level 40 I chose a Training skill that read it was an upgrade to that App IV buff, with the added benefit of increased AC vs crushing.  The upgrade to crushing AC wasn't worth much to me, but the idea of going from App IV to Adept 2 was very nice, since I hadn't yet seen an Adept 1 version of the spell for sale on the broker.  Sadly, after choosing the training and comparing the two, both give exactly the same Defense increase.  Exactly.  The.  Same.  No Defense skill change between App 4 and Adept 2.

 

Another:

Level 40 combat art "Retaliation".  Jumped straight from App I (the freebie) to App IV (cost me 9g).  I didn't write down the exact numbers at the time, but as best I can remember this high damage crushing attack's description went from something like 555hp dmg to 585hp dmg.  Whoop di doo.  That's 5%.  Now I'm considering an upgrade to Adept 3, but 5pp for a ruby.....if I end up with 595hp dmg I'll have to write a letter.   

 

These disappointments could be solved in two ways:

1. The best way, but more time consuming one, would be to scale the skills in a more predictable fashion.

2. In the short term, or if the scaling is as designed, at least provide us with an updated user manual that documents the various skill descriptions at each level of power.

 

Either of these would alleviate some of the feeling of having wasted expensive ink components such as rubies, opals, palladium, and coral.

 

- RP

[the_sys]

The most notable thing I can see left off the list is the bury bug.Bury (Level 21 ability) is a blue background icon, denoting it should not be restricted to encounter, though currently that seems to be how it acts. The ability this replaced (Assualt) wasn't restricted to an encounter, and even though I can't personally verify this, I've heard that the future upgrades of this ability are also not restricted to a single encounter.The most probable solutions are:(Suggested) Make this ability act like the one it replaced (Assault) and take away the restriction of encounter only.(Alternate) Change the icon to a green background to be more in line with other abilities in the game that are encounter only.

[Fafnir]

Is there now a recipie to upgrade Hold the Line to adept III?  There never used to be.  If there isn't, it should be added.

[TunaBoo]

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Fafnir wrote:

Is there now a recipie to upgrade Hold the Line to adept III? There never used to be. If there isn't, it should be added.

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It was JUST added the last patch.Lots of our spells don't upgrade at all past app1, that sucks too.

[Fafnir]

Thanks Tuna - I'll check it out.

 

As an aside, whilst I think it's a different category of issues, there are some item ones which could be addressed:

* apparently the EBBC does not hit certain raid mobs because the magical characteristic of the ebon isn't being included (have EBBC but haven't confirmed this myself);

* SBS heritage quest should provide for buckler, round, kite and tower varieities.

 

I'll jot down the values for the various spells at 50 which I have.  That'll help work out what benefits there are from upgrading and what is broken.

 

Fafnir

48 Guardian

 

[TunaBoo]

Leave SBS alone.. its a POS cleric shield... it is NOT meant to be useable by every class. ;p

[Fafnir]

The stats are: +10 sta +11 str +50 health +19 power (Shield Factor 188 at level 4

No mate, the SBS has no purpose in the game at all.  It's a buckler with high str, sta and health, and low power.  It has no wisdom.  It is clearly tank oriented, but as a buckler it is useless.

 

No priest would touch it (1sp shields have better stats on it).  No class would ever touch it.

 

I have a cedar tower, so I don't really care, but I think that it should be changed for those folks who want to use.

Message Edited by Fafnir on 02-24-2005 03:52 PM

[ThramFalc]

The more I think about it, I think something needs to be done with our Stance line.  The devs seem to think they are useful arts based on a comment Moorgard made the other day and I think we can all agree that Soldier's Stance, Dig In, and Fortified Stance are not worth the effort to cast.

 

The problem is their defense components do not stack with the "Call of" line and the AC they give is so minimal compared to the decrease in speed and offense.

 

The effects on these should be changed... perhaps add more AC or Spell Avoidance or Parry or agro or anything.  Making the defense stack would probably be overpowering so other options should be persued.  These are supposed to be class defining arts and no smart Guardian uses them.

 

Also, as far as the SBS goes... It is entirely useless... Not 1 class uses it.  The Crown of King Tranix has a similar issue... Finally we get a hat with melee stats and its only available in very light armor form... So no caster will wear and if a tank wants to wear (even a monk), he will take a huge hit to his AC (200-300ish).  I propose that we be able to hand in these items to an npc for an appropriate armor type reward... even if the returned item is slightly worse than the original.  Granted some heritage quests give items only useful to certain classes, but these 2 quests give items useful to 0 classes and something should be done to remedy that.

[TunaBoo]

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Fafnir wrote:

The stats are: +10 sta +11 str +50 health +19 power (Shield Factor 188 at level 4

No mate, the SBS has no purpose in the game at all. It's a buckler with high str, sta and health, and low power. It has no wisdom. It is clearly tank oriented, but as a buckler it is useless.

No priest would touch it (1sp shields have better stats on it). No class would ever touch it.

I have a cedar tower, so I don't really care, but I think that it should be changed for those folks who want to use.

Message Edited by Fafnir on 02-24-2005 03:52 PM

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This isn't the place to talk about how SBS sucks. Lots of hertiage items suck.. thems are the breaks.

[pohs]

Updated.   I'm trying to keep it to just specific Guardian Issues. 

 

Tuna, you mentioned lots fo spells don't upgrade past app1, care to name names?

[Schmak]

Just to add Hunker down Master 1 Seems to have a negitive effect,Im unsure if this is supposed to happen as it is a grey spell, buts its working like a self debuff ! (makes note do not use)Return To Battle Adept 3Same buff stats as adept 1 however the the spell effect is spammed 3 times in spell discription, and is no upgrade to adept 1

[Balmore]

Do DEVs read this? Thankies...

[pohs]

Updated to reflect changes on Test Server

[Obmarbe]

Commanding Presence:I obtained this skill at lvl 40 and it is blue at 40 - no growth potential. Is this intentional?

[TunaBoo]

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Obmarbeta wrote:Commanding Presence:I obtained this skill at lvl 40 and it is blue at 40 - no growth potential. Is this intentional?

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Still works at 50, doesn't matter if it grows.