New AC display = guardian screwed over

a · 02-01-2005, 10:44 PM

I know 'technically' that nothing has changed with our defenses or AC etc etc.Now with the new AC display i have around 3100 at lvl 26. Comparing this with a lvl 23 Monk who hasnt even got a helmet, shield or a good chest plate. He has 3000. Now i know this is because Deflection is taken into account but come on..... he even has the same jewlery and he is 3 lvls lower than me with worse items.Have we not mitigation taken into account for our new AC display?. People with brains will still pick a Guardian I hope but when just looking at the AC of each character will they pick the Monk?

Pola · 02-01-2005, 11:19 PM

I dunno..I'll take 3100 360 degree protection against 3000 90 degree protection any day.

Remember.. /ALL/ tanks are supposed to be able to play the MT role, this is per the Devs.

Guardians should just be the most defensive.

Just cos the numbers are similar, that doesn't mean anything has changed.. If anything, the accuracy for which the number represents the brawlers tanking ability is over-inflated..

Brawlers make decent takes for 1 mob, or 2 mob senarios.. pull 3 or 4, where some are behind you.. deflection isn't gonna help ya very much..at all

However, heavy armor, will SMILEY

yettey · 02-02-2005, 12:43 AM

i dont care if it says they have 10x the ac we have, if they cant preform they will not MT over you

Salgo · 02-02-2005, 02:12 AM

I have to agree with the previous post. Groups may initially choose based on AC alone, but inevitably they will soon find out that this new AC tally isn't all that its cracked up to be. From all that I have read...Level is still King. Yes, we can all tank but IMHO different subclasses will tank better in certain situations. However, when they want an all around tank, I don't think you can go wrong with a Guardian. We can tank single mobs, we can tank multiple mobs, the damage we take is pretty consistent.... it's what we do. I'm sure the other subclasses excel in certain situations, maybe when fighting a named etc... I don't know. All I can say is that I haven't had any complaints fighting any type of mob. Granted, I'm only Lvl 25, but so far so good.

All that being said, I truly believe that the different AC categories should be broken out. Now, I'm a newb so I don't know all the different categories but the ones that keep popping up are: Mitigation, Deflection, and Avoidance. I'm sure there are others so maybe some should be combined, but certainly not all combined into one like it is now.

Dren · 02-02-2005, 03:42 AM

I was very surprised when I logged in and noticed that the scouts in my guild, all had about 25-30% higher ac then me. And Im wearing 3 pieces of aq armor, and the rest orange vanguard and a shield. And atleast 1 level higher, then the highest level scout. I havent compared myself to monks, or other fighter classes yet, but I would think they even got higher ac then the scouts...

I had an aprox of 2000ac, the scouts where about avarage of 2600..

SuRF · 02-02-2005, 04:07 AM

Dren wrote:

I was very surprised when I logged in and noticed that the scouts in my guild, all had about 25-30% higher ac then me. And Im wearing 3 pieces of aq armor, and the rest orange vanguard and a shield. And atleast 1 level higher, then the highest level scout. I havent compared myself to monks, or other fighter classes yet, but I would think they even got higher ac then the scouts...

I had an aprox of 2000ac, the scouts where about avarage of 2600..

u shouldnt have 2000 ac.

at lvl 28 i had 3400+ without buffs but with shield

and i got 3600 ac self buffed.

there wasnt anymonk that i saw that had more AC then me, not pally or any other plate wearer in my lvl.

also, AQs are alot better then crafted armors (exept rare).

Bruge · 02-02-2005, 04:34 AM

The good thing about the new AC. If it actually fools the group you join, then you know right off the bat its time to find another group.....

The groups that actually understand whats going on..... usually equals good xp and fun times.

ThramFalc · 02-02-2005, 05:16 AM

The AC value still underweights the effects of our defense buffs. These buffs have a huge impact and at level 41 blue mobs can't touch me with them up, but destroy me with them down.

These buffs are why we are the best tanks and they barely move AC... so AC is effectively meaningless for guardians.

TunaBoo · 02-02-2005, 06:30 AM

ThramFalcox wrote:
The AC value still underweights the effects of our defense buffs. These buffs have a huge impact and at level 41 blue mobs can't touch me with them up, but destroy me with them down.

These buffs are why we are the best tanks and they barely move AC... so AC is effectively meaningless for guardians.

And furthermore, shields aren't treated right. My shield adds 800ac + a lot of block. But it only raises my defense by 800.This is what I feared. Unless the defense value is computed perfectly and works for all mobs, it is meaningless. Stuff is STILL left out and under-reported.. it just made the situation even MORE confusing the before./sigh

Corasik · 02-02-2005, 08:36 AM

Thats interesting, Im a fairly well equipped Bruiser, and I group every day with a Guardian of the same level.

His AC since the patch over 7100 with all his buffs, and group buffs. Im struggling to break 6100 with my buffs and group buffs. Anyway its all beside the point, the AGI change seems to have had a knock on effect on defence and deflection, as a result bruisers and monks cant tank at all. Probably better off with a scout tanking. At least they wear medium armor.

fur · 02-02-2005, 09:34 AM

As of this patch you will never , ever, see a bruiser tank for a group unless there is absolutely no other alternative, at 44 i got my [Removed for Content] handed to me by Harbinger (blue 2 arrow mob) which could barely hit me yesterday, he hit me so hard it was like useless for the healers to even try and keep up..blue ++ mob here guys, yesterday this blue group mob was like a trivial stop on the way when we cleared obelisk. We tried with a guardian same level as me (44) and sure he also got hit more then yesterday but healers could easily maintain his health. I had about the same ac as the Guardian (both dw'n) 300 or so less, however that fancy little number on our persona dont mean nothin (for a bruiser at least) cause even if we are on par with you ac wise , when we get hit it hurts us 10X more cause of our light armor.

Im a offensive bruiser myself so i actually prefer the 2nd tank role, however they should not keep calling Bruisers tanks from now on cause we aint that in any shape or form, unless you also call wizards tanks.

PS, this is NOT intended to lessen guardians in any way, actually im very glad they are finally defining our roles better, Guardians at the fore bruisers at the back and vice versa in the dps department =).

Skull - Kithicor

Wulfe · 02-02-2005, 11:17 AM

So monks have better visible AC now. That I can accept becouse I have seen one tank better (ok say superior) than me in some situations. What I was really supriced was that other tanks seem to have exactly the same ac than we, guardians have. Not anything against paladins (ok, maybe a little becouse they still seem to whine like in eq1) but I was hoping to see guardian with same gear have a little bit better ac, to balance paladins heals and other crap. But no. Also some say that we have superior taunt. Well, if you have a group that knows how to play, no MT is going to have taunt problems. No monk or paladin.

So now I don't really know what to think. Is it so that all we have is the ability to use all armor and weapons ... I like my guardian and don't really have an problem being 2nd tank (out dps is better than generally belived) but I don't think we were really created that in mind. well, maybe some higher lv guards can tell if its still the same when your lv45+

Wulfeen

lv38 Barbarian Guardian

Wulfe · 02-02-2005, 11:19 AM

double post

Message Edited by Wulfeen on 02-01-2005 10:20 PM

TerasDeathBla · 02-02-2005, 12:33 PM

22 monk with 2801 defense here

since the agility nerf i cant tank crap but before that i was MT for my group, now you are better off getting a scout, at least until they fix the problem before then we could tank as well as guardians just in a different way where you are slow [Removed for Content] and just take the dmg and hope your armor protects you we dodge the attacks before patch we could tank as well as a guardian/pally if the monk/bruiser knew what they were doing

Nazo · 02-02-2005, 01:11 PM

SoE declared that new AC values will reflect how the game calculates defense much better then old system.

ROFL so this means all our Scouts now can tank :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:

Instead of clarifying things it made things worse. In the past people were able to judge by ACs now they will start judging by class. Everyone knows that a Bruiser or Scout with AC values approaching a Guardian because of insane Agility factor in cannot MT.

Either SoE left out something when displaying AC values once again or their algorithms are so lame

SELECT CASE PLAYER_CLASS

CASE "GUARDIAN": MOB_DAMAGE = MOB_DAMAGE * 0.7

CASE "BERSERKER": MOB_DAMAGE = MOB_DAMAGE * 0.8

etc.....

END SELECT

it may be as lame as this lol

Message Edited by Nazowa on 02-02-2005 12:12 AM

TunaBoo · 02-02-2005, 01:14 PM

Nah they left out shields for sure. I think they under-accounted for defense. I don't think there is a hidden defense factor, guards tank well because we self buff defense.

Nazo · 02-02-2005, 01:25 PM

I still see same trend as EQ where as a plate class you maybe getting hit more often lets say then a monk it is predictable damage making healers life easier. With classes dependant on AGI or purely avoidance it is miss miss miss dead...

TunaBoo · 02-02-2005, 02:06 PM

Nazowa wrote:
I still see same trend as EQ where as a plate class you maybe getting hit more often lets say then a monk it is predictable damage making healers life easier. With classes dependant on AGI or purely avoidance it is miss miss miss dead...

Yah but I think right now overall damage/minute is really high on monks, they may have overnerfed. Time will tell.BTW guards have highest def still. Asked a lot of pals and monks in the 50 range, no one could beat me.

Tarskin · 02-02-2005, 02:49 PM

--- Tuna quote ---

I don't think there is a hidden defense factor, guards tank well because we self buff defense.

--- end quote ---

Tuna hit it spot on imo, it's buffs like commanding presence, do or die and call of protection and dig in which makes us tank so well, i couldn't care less what the new ac figure says now.

We all just know we will tank better then any non-guardian with close to our AC because of these buffs.

Bottomline is that i'm not really worried bout this i guess SMILEY

PS: Tuna, i noticed the odd thing with my shield as well (which i hardly ever use tho) so i think they somehow forgot to put in account the block% with a shield *shrugs*

ThramFalc · 02-02-2005, 05:27 PM

The new AC value means nothing. A poorly equipped guardian with 5000ac can outtank most all other classes with AC of 7000 or more. Scouts with high AC get hit by gray mobs and blue mobs don't even touch me regardless of what my AC is.

This cosmetic change to AC is just stupid... AC made little sense before and it makes no sense now. When looking for a tank ask yourself this... who in the group has the highest defense?

Gala · 02-02-2005, 08:53 PM

Shields do count in the new AC numbers.So does Agility, which is why the numbers seem so huge for scouts and other classes. This is NOT their armor factor, but defense factor, AKA being able to avoid getting hit in the first place supposedly is just as good for raising defense as being able to take hits.NOT

Hecklerko · 02-02-2005, 09:08 PM

Not trying to rekindle the flame wars in the Monks vs Guards/Zerkers as MT debate but........... You are now seeing what the Monks have been claiming for a long time, they have defensive capabilities that many other Tank classes have laughed at by simply saying "just look at my AC I'm the only true tank". With the patch yesterday it is now obvious the Monks were right and that many will need to rethink their definition of "tank".

CherobylJ · 02-02-2005, 10:31 PM

TunaBoo wrote:

And furthermore, shields aren't treated right. My shield adds 800ac + a lot of block. But it only raises my defense by 800.

This is what I feared. Unless the defense value is computed perfectly and works for all mobs, it is meaningless. Stuff is STILL left out and under-reported.. it just made the situation even MORE confusing the before.

/sigh

Well put Tuna, this new number really leaves alot to be desired.

Dart · 02-02-2005, 10:55 PM

furok wrote:

As of this patch you will never , ever, see a bruiser tank for a group unless there is absolutely no other alternative, at 44 i got my [Removed for Content] handed to me by Harbinger (blue 2 arrow mob) which could barely hit me yesterday, he hit me so hard it was like useless for the healers to even try and keep up..blue ++ mob here guys, yesterday this blue group mob was like a trivial stop on the way when we cleared obelisk. We tried with a guardian same level as me (44) and sure he also got hit more then yesterday but healers could easily maintain his health. I had about the same ac as the Guardian (both dw'n) 300 or so less, however that fancy little number on our persona dont mean nothin (for a bruiser at least) cause even if we are on par with you ac wise , when we get hit it hurts us 10X more cause of our light armor.

Im a offensive bruiser myself so i actually prefer the 2nd tank role, however they should not keep calling Bruisers tanks from now on cause we aint that in any shape or form, unless you also call wizards tanks.

PS, this is NOT intended to lessen guardians in any way, actually im very glad they are finally defining our roles better, Guardians at the fore bruisers at the back and vice versa in the dps department =).

Skull - Kithicor

This is not Bruiser specific. I noticed a huge change as a Guardian since last patch, mobs I could normally tank with ease are draining healer mana far faster than before. Solo content that I could kill is giving me a much tougher time. I haven't done any extensive testing but last night sucked(

Go SOE with the stealth changes, this is not just the way AC is being displayed, they changed the mobs and or the way damage is issued to PC's, in general.

Dalthenn · 02-02-2005, 11:06 PM

Yes, I agree. Encounters are way too hard now and even with two healers it's very difficult to take on yellow ^^ mobs. Mobs in Runnyeye that were yellow ^^, even named ones, were not as hard to kill prior this patch.They definetly broke something and I'm sure they'll have to fix it.From experience in EQ1, if it takes me over 5 minutes for a patch to download - I know that something will brake.I hope they fix this soon.

TunaBoo · 02-02-2005, 11:18 PM

1 healer on yellows is fine. Just need a good healer. No idea if a monk needs 2 healers but guards don't.

ArgosyAxeGrind · 02-02-2005, 11:22 PM

As a level 27.8 guardian, we were hunting level 30-33 ^^ clay golems in RoV just fine the other day with a single healer (level 28 templar). It's completely doable pre-30. Not sure about you post-30 guardians ....

Message Edited by ArgosyAxeGrinder on 02-02-2005 01:46 PM

Deeds · 02-02-2005, 11:42 PM

Some are not getting it:

Not yellow, we talkin about tankin yellow^^. Try tanking that with one healer, and then tell me everything is OK, and that you have no down time.

Braxus 39 berserker

Sophilia 39 fury

TunaBoo · 02-02-2005, 11:56 PM

Deedbit wrote:
Some are not getting it:

Not yellow, we talkin about tankin yellow^^. Try tanking that with one healer, and then tell me everything is OK, and that you have no down time.

Braxus 39 berserker
Sophilia 39 fury

I do it. EF and CT is full of yellow^^. No problem.

Deeds · 02-03-2005, 12:08 AM

Well Tunaboo, I hope you are right, but your case seems to be in the minority here. Tell me, what was your group make up, and how many & what healers did you have? I duo a Berserker & fury, my brother duos a guardian & inquisitor, we BOTH had to heal A LOT more on mobs that we were pretty easily killin pre-patch.

Braxus 39 berserker

Sophilia 39 fury

02-02-2005, 12:43 AM	#3
yettey Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4	i dont care if it says they have 10x the ac we have, if they cant preform they will not MT over you __________________ border="0" width="500" height="100" alt="This is my sig!">

02-02-2005, 04:07 AM	#6
SuRF Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Isr Posts: 4	Dren wrote: I was very surprised when I logged in and noticed that the scouts in my guild, all had about 25-30% higher ac then me. And Im wearing 3 pieces of aq armor, and the rest orange vanguard and a shield. And atleast 1 level higher, then the highest level scout. I havent compared myself to monks, or other fighter classes yet, but I would think they even got higher ac then the scouts... I had an aprox of 2000ac, the scouts where about avarage of 2600.. u shouldnt have 2000 ac. at lvl 28 i had 3400+ without buffs but with shield and i got 3600 ac self buffed. there wasnt anymonk that i saw that had more AC then me, not pally or any other plate wearer in my lvl. also, AQs are alot better then crafted armors (exept rare).

02-02-2005, 04:34 AM	#7
Bruge Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	The good thing about the new AC. If it actually fools the group you join, then you know right off the bat its time to find another group..... The groups that actually understand whats going on..... usually equals good xp and fun times. __________________

02-02-2005, 06:30 AM	#9
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	ThramFalcox wrote: The AC value still underweights the effects of our defense buffs. These buffs have a huge impact and at level 41 blue mobs can't touch me with them up, but destroy me with them down. These buffs are why we are the best tanks and they barely move AC... so AC is effectively meaningless for guardians. And furthermore, shields aren't treated right. My shield adds 800ac + a lot of block. But it only raises my defense by 800.This is what I feared. Unless the defense value is computed perfectly and works for all mobs, it is meaningless. Stuff is STILL left out and under-reported.. it just made the situation even MORE confusing the before./sigh __________________ www.spiralguild.com

02-02-2005, 12:33 PM	#14
TerasDeathBla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 33	22 monk with 2801 defense here since the agility nerf i cant tank crap but before that i was MT for my group, now you are better off getting a scout, at least until they fix the problem before then we could tank as well as guardians just in a different way where you are slow [Removed for Content] and just take the dmg and hope your armor protects you we dodge the attacks before patch we could tank as well as a guardian/pally if the monk/bruiser knew what they were doing __________________

02-01-2005, 10:44 PM	#1
a Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22	I know 'technically' that nothing has changed with our defenses or AC etc etc.Now with the new AC display i have around 3100 at lvl 26. Comparing this with a lvl 23 Monk who hasnt even got a helmet, shield or a good chest plate. He has 3000. Now i know this is because Deflection is taken into account but come on..... he even has the same jewlery and he is 3 lvls lower than me with worse items.Have we not mitigation taken into account for our new AC display?. People with brains will still pick a Guardian I hope but when just looking at the AC of each character will they pick the Monk?

02-01-2005, 11:19 PM	#2
Pola Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 8	I dunno..I'll take 3100 360 degree protection against 3000 90 degree protection any day. Remember.. /ALL/ tanks are supposed to be able to play the MT role, this is per the Devs. Guardians should just be the most defensive. Just cos the numbers are similar, that doesn't mean anything has changed.. If anything, the accuracy for which the number represents the brawlers tanking ability is over-inflated.. Brawlers make decent takes for 1 mob, or 2 mob senarios.. pull 3 or 4, where some are behind you.. deflection isn't gonna help ya very much..at all However, heavy armor, will

02-02-2005, 02:12 AM	#4
Salgo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 90	I have to agree with the previous post. Groups may initially choose based on AC alone, but inevitably they will soon find out that this new AC tally isn't all that its cracked up to be. From all that I have read...Level is still King. Yes, we can all tank but IMHO different subclasses will tank better in certain situations. However, when they want an all around tank, I don't think you can go wrong with a Guardian. We can tank single mobs, we can tank multiple mobs, the damage we take is pretty consistent.... it's what we do. I'm sure the other subclasses excel in certain situations, maybe when fighting a named etc... I don't know. All I can say is that I haven't had any complaints fighting any type of mob. Granted, I'm only Lvl 25, but so far so good. All that being said, I truly believe that the different AC categories should be broken out. Now, I'm a newb so I don't know all the different categories but the ones that keep popping up are: Mitigation, Deflection, and Avoidance. I'm sure there are others so maybe some should be combined, but certainly not all combined into one like it is now.

02-02-2005, 03:42 AM	#5
Dren Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5	I was very surprised when I logged in and noticed that the scouts in my guild, all had about 25-30% higher ac then me. And Im wearing 3 pieces of aq armor, and the rest orange vanguard and a shield. And atleast 1 level higher, then the highest level scout. I havent compared myself to monks, or other fighter classes yet, but I would think they even got higher ac then the scouts... I had an aprox of 2000ac, the scouts where about avarage of 2600..

02-02-2005, 05:16 AM	#8
ThramFalc Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 209	The AC value still underweights the effects of our defense buffs. These buffs have a huge impact and at level 41 blue mobs can't touch me with them up, but destroy me with them down. These buffs are why we are the best tanks and they barely move AC... so AC is effectively meaningless for guardians.

02-02-2005, 08:36 AM	#10
Corasik Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 91	Thats interesting, Im a fairly well equipped Bruiser, and I group every day with a Guardian of the same level. His AC since the patch over 7100 with all his buffs, and group buffs. Im struggling to break 6100 with my buffs and group buffs. Anyway its all beside the point, the AGI change seems to have had a knock on effect on defence and deflection, as a result bruisers and monks cant tank at all. Probably better off with a scout tanking. At least they wear medium armor.

02-02-2005, 09:34 AM	#11
fur General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	As of this patch you will never , ever, see a bruiser tank for a group unless there is absolutely no other alternative, at 44 i got my [Removed for Content] handed to me by Harbinger (blue 2 arrow mob) which could barely hit me yesterday, he hit me so hard it was like useless for the healers to even try and keep up..blue ++ mob here guys, yesterday this blue group mob was like a trivial stop on the way when we cleared obelisk. We tried with a guardian same level as me (44) and sure he also got hit more then yesterday but healers could easily maintain his health. I had about the same ac as the Guardian (both dw'n) 300 or so less, however that fancy little number on our persona dont mean nothin (for a bruiser at least) cause even if we are on par with you ac wise , when we get hit it hurts us 10X more cause of our light armor. Im a offensive bruiser myself so i actually prefer the 2nd tank role, however they should not keep calling Bruisers tanks from now on cause we aint that in any shape or form, unless you also call wizards tanks. PS, this is NOT intended to lessen guardians in any way, actually im very glad they are finally defining our roles better, Guardians at the fore bruisers at the back and vice versa in the dps department =). Skull - Kithicor

02-02-2005, 11:17 AM	#12
Wulfe Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 82	So monks have better visible AC now. That I can accept becouse I have seen one tank better (ok say superior) than me in some situations. What I was really supriced was that other tanks seem to have exactly the same ac than we, guardians have. Not anything against paladins (ok, maybe a little becouse they still seem to whine like in eq1) but I was hoping to see guardian with same gear have a little bit better ac, to balance paladins heals and other crap. But no. Also some say that we have superior taunt. Well, if you have a group that knows how to play, no MT is going to have taunt problems. No monk or paladin. So now I don't really know what to think. Is it so that all we have is the ability to use all armor and weapons ... I like my guardian and don't really have an problem being 2nd tank (out dps is better than generally belived) but I don't think we were really created that in mind. well, maybe some higher lv guards can tell if its still the same when your lv45+ Wulfeen lv38 Barbarian Guardian

02-02-2005, 11:19 AM	#13
Wulfe Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 82	double post Message Edited by Wulfeen on 02-01-2005 10:20 PM

02-02-2005, 01:11 PM	#15
Nazo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 254	SoE declared that new AC values will reflect how the game calculates defense much better then old system. ROFL so this means all our Scouts now can tank :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy: Instead of clarifying things it made things worse. In the past people were able to judge by ACs now they will start judging by class. Everyone knows that a Bruiser or Scout with AC values approaching a Guardian because of insane Agility factor in cannot MT. Either SoE left out something when displaying AC values once again or their algorithms are so lame SELECT CASE PLAYER_CLASS CASE "GUARDIAN": MOB_DAMAGE = MOB_DAMAGE * 0.7 CASE "BERSERKER": MOB_DAMAGE = MOB_DAMAGE * 0.8 etc..... END SELECT it may be as lame as this lol Message Edited by Nazowa on 02-02-2005 12:12 AM

02-02-2005, 01:14 PM	#16
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	Nah they left out shields for sure. I think they under-accounted for defense. I don't think there is a hidden defense factor, guards tank well because we self buff defense. __________________ www.spiralguild.com

02-02-2005, 01:25 PM	#17
Nazo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 254	I still see same trend as EQ where as a plate class you maybe getting hit more often lets say then a monk it is predictable damage making healers life easier. With classes dependant on AGI or purely avoidance it is miss miss miss dead...

02-02-2005, 02:06 PM	#18
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	Nazowa wrote: I still see same trend as EQ where as a plate class you maybe getting hit more often lets say then a monk it is predictable damage making healers life easier. With classes dependant on AGI or purely avoidance it is miss miss miss dead... Yah but I think right now overall damage/minute is really high on monks, they may have overnerfed. Time will tell.BTW guards have highest def still. Asked a lot of pals and monks in the 50 range, no one could beat me. __________________ www.spiralguild.com

02-02-2005, 02:49 PM	#19
Tarskin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	--- Tuna quote --- I don't think there is a hidden defense factor, guards tank well because we self buff defense. --- end quote --- Tuna hit it spot on imo, it's buffs like commanding presence, do or die and call of protection and dig in which makes us tank so well, i couldn't care less what the new ac figure says now. We all just know we will tank better then any non-guardian with close to our AC because of these buffs. Bottomline is that i'm not really worried bout this i guess PS: Tuna, i noticed the odd thing with my shield as well (which i hardly ever use tho) so i think they somehow forgot to put in account the block% with a shield shrugs

02-02-2005, 05:27 PM	#20
ThramFalc Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 209	The new AC value means nothing. A poorly equipped guardian with 5000ac can outtank most all other classes with AC of 7000 or more. Scouts with high AC get hit by gray mobs and blue mobs don't even touch me regardless of what my AC is. This cosmetic change to AC is just stupid... AC made little sense before and it makes no sense now. When looking for a tank ask yourself this... who in the group has the highest defense?

02-02-2005, 08:53 PM	#21
Gala Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7	Shields do count in the new AC numbers.So does Agility, which is why the numbers seem so huge for scouts and other classes. This is NOT their armor factor, but defense factor, AKA being able to avoid getting hit in the first place supposedly is just as good for raising defense as being able to take hits.NOT __________________

02-02-2005, 09:08 PM	#22
Hecklerko Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	Not trying to rekindle the flame wars in the Monks vs Guards/Zerkers as MT debate but........... You are now seeing what the Monks have been claiming for a long time, they have defensive capabilities that many other Tank classes have laughed at by simply saying "just look at my AC I'm the only true tank". With the patch yesterday it is now obvious the Monks were right and that many will need to rethink their definition of "tank".

02-02-2005, 10:31 PM	#23
CherobylJ Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 395	TunaBoo wrote: And furthermore, shields aren't treated right. My shield adds 800ac + a lot of block. But it only raises my defense by 800. This is what I feared. Unless the defense value is computed perfectly and works for all mobs, it is meaningless. Stuff is STILL left out and under-reported.. it just made the situation even MORE confusing the before. /sigh Well put Tuna, this new number really leaves alot to be desired. __________________ ---------------------- Flair Fifteenpiece - 54 Berserker of Guk, - Co-GL Infernal Requiem formerly Flair Shieldrender 70 Overlord of Fennin Ro "And as the Overlord raised his fist to the sky, the crowds cheered below. The soldiers began their familiar chant as the citizens joined in: "Strength in unity; unity in Lucan!"

02-02-2005, 10:55 PM	#24
Dart Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	furok wrote: As of this patch you will never , ever, see a bruiser tank for a group unless there is absolutely no other alternative, at 44 i got my [Removed for Content] handed to me by Harbinger (blue 2 arrow mob) which could barely hit me yesterday, he hit me so hard it was like useless for the healers to even try and keep up..blue ++ mob here guys, yesterday this blue group mob was like a trivial stop on the way when we cleared obelisk. We tried with a guardian same level as me (44) and sure he also got hit more then yesterday but healers could easily maintain his health. I had about the same ac as the Guardian (both dw'n) 300 or so less, however that fancy little number on our persona dont mean nothin (for a bruiser at least) cause even if we are on par with you ac wise , when we get hit it hurts us 10X more cause of our light armor. Im a offensive bruiser myself so i actually prefer the 2nd tank role, however they should not keep calling Bruisers tanks from now on cause we aint that in any shape or form, unless you also call wizards tanks. PS, this is NOT intended to lessen guardians in any way, actually im very glad they are finally defining our roles better, Guardians at the fore bruisers at the back and vice versa in the dps department =). Skull - Kithicor This is not Bruiser specific. I noticed a huge change as a Guardian since last patch, mobs I could normally tank with ease are draining healer mana far faster than before. Solo content that I could kill is giving me a much tougher time. I haven't done any extensive testing but last night sucked( Go SOE with the stealth changes, this is not just the way AC is being displayed, they changed the mobs and or the way damage is issued to PC's, in general. __________________ Phinny - 68th Warlock of Permafrost Thunderfoot - 70th Bruiser Permafrost You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!" -Monty Python's Holy Grail-

02-02-2005, 11:06 PM	#25
Dalthenn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 124	Yes, I agree. Encounters are way too hard now and even with two healers it's very difficult to take on yellow ^^ mobs. Mobs in Runnyeye that were yellow ^^, even named ones, were not as hard to kill prior this patch.They definetly broke something and I'm sure they'll have to fix it.From experience in EQ1, if it takes me over 5 minutes for a patch to download - I know that something will brake.I hope they fix this soon.

02-02-2005, 11:18 PM	#26
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	1 healer on yellows is fine. Just need a good healer. No idea if a monk needs 2 healers but guards don't. __________________ www.spiralguild.com

02-02-2005, 11:22 PM	#27
ArgosyAxeGrind Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	As a level 27.8 guardian, we were hunting level 30-33 ^^ clay golems in RoV just fine the other day with a single healer (level 28 templar). It's completely doable pre-30. Not sure about you post-30 guardians .... Message Edited by ArgosyAxeGrinder on 02-02-2005 01:46 PM

02-02-2005, 11:42 PM	#28
Deeds Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 116	Some are not getting it: Not yellow, we talkin about tankin yellow^^. Try tanking that with one healer, and then tell me everything is OK, and that you have no down time. Braxus 39 berserker Sophilia 39 fury

02-02-2005, 11:56 PM	#29
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	Deedbit wrote: Some are not getting it: Not yellow, we talkin about tankin yellow^^. Try tanking that with one healer, and then tell me everything is OK, and that you have no down time. Braxus 39 berserker Sophilia 39 fury I do it. EF and CT is full of yellow^^. No problem. __________________ www.spiralguild.com

02-03-2005, 12:08 AM	#30
Deeds Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 116	Well Tunaboo, I hope you are right, but your case seems to be in the minority here. Tell me, what was your group make up, and how many & what healers did you have? I duo a Berserker & fury, my brother duos a guardian & inquisitor, we BOTH had to heal A LOT more on mobs that we were pretty easily killin pre-patch. Braxus 39 berserker Sophilia 39 fury