Zerkers: Not done yet

[Xaviou]

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=6304 Take away 1h weapons and shields. That's what they want, that's what they get. Some level 38 Zerker gonna act all bad [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about parsing 280 DPS against Blue Cons and outparsing scouts in his group, they are begging to get nerfed again. I laugh at this class daily. They beg for the nerfs.

Message Edited by XaviousA on 01-24-2005 11:06 AM

[Radom102]

My brother is a 37 zerker and I group with him daily (i'm a guardian) so I can say for a fact that his dps is at least x2 as high as mine or even x3 on an even con multiple mob group.  I dont care how much dps he can do all I care about is that as a guardian I should by design be the primary tank and  be able to take the beating and help my group survive but under currect condition he can tank as well as I can if buffed with agi/str and kill mobs x2 faster than I can.  To me the whole ac system is not working correctly.

[Reol]

As far as I am to understand it, they haven't fully nerfed the Fighter classes yet, they simply nerfed bloodlust and stuff under lvl 36, so any berserker bragging about being able to have a huge dps score, better sit quiet till they come out with all there planned nerfs.

 

For those of you that don't read Moorgard said in his post, they are going to review dps, and basically if a fighter is doing dps consistant with a scout or caster, they are going to get nerfed, so that will include both bruisers and zerkers, and zerkers dps will be below even a bruiser.

 

So again lvl 36+ berserkers that think the world is perfect, your days are numbered too.

[Bobbubski]

---

Reolas wrote:

 

So again lvl 36+ berserkers that think the world is perfect, your days are numbered too.

---

heh, there should be nerf music to go along w/ it.  kinda like the jaws theme....

 

"just when u thought it was safe to go back in the water".... .*duh-dump..... duh-dump....duh-dump dump-dump dump...*

 

we all just gotta hang tight until the balance issues are sorted out.

[Reol]

My biggest frustration, is I get the impression from other players especially guardians, again this is MY impression.

 

To me there seems to be a total disregard from alot of Guardians, not all, but alot. I get the feeling that most are sitting back happy as a clam that they have overall control of the tanking job, which to me is a selfish attitude and is not constructive to the game. Yes I realize that the game is going through balance issues, however and Im sure there will be those that post here with ignorant posts too, I do think that we all can be alittle bit better behaved on this, I personally don't agree with what SOE is saying, It to me is double talk, or backpeddling, which smells alot like SWG.

[Xaviou]

Everyone that isn't a zerker knows that zerkers are gonna get nerfed again. It has nothing to do with Guardians.

[Padi]

Just wanted to point out that Guardian DPS will likely be nerfed too.  Not sure how many are aware, but when a guardian tries to DPS the usually out DPS scouts and mages post 42ish.

[ChristopherK]

Reolas,

 

If your not going to give Guardians higher DPS or the ability to be the only class to where the highest armor then you have to give them something. The ability to be the best at controling agro is what they get. Take that away or give it to zerks or paly/shdows etc then you have a low DPS class that wears the same armor as a healer. G.. thats fun.

 

It's also anoying to go to 24 man raids where Zerks or Palys are MT because the perception that higher DPS = better agro control. Taunts rule, Guardians should have the best of them and it's not selfish of them to want/have that seeing as they do not get DPS or higher AC.

[Xaviou]

I have no problem with Guardian DPS getting nerfed as I can out DPS a same level wizzy with my 2 hander. It's not balanced.

[Uumuuanu]

---

Padien wrote:

Just wanted to point out that Guardian DPS will likely be nerfed too.  Not sure how many are aware, but when a guardian tries to DPS the usually out DPS scouts and mages post 42ish.

---

That is correct.   Actually its before 42.   In doing some testing for damage parsing over the weekend,  there were multiple times with white/yellow con group mobs that as a 32 guardian I was FAR out damaging everyone in the group other then 1 warlock.  In some testing when I would go all out on DPS as MT, even with taunting,  I could go more damage then a 34 coercer, 33 fury, and a 28 brigand combined and could steadily out damage the fury and coercer even when the shaman in the group did all the healing and the fury went DPS.

I would guess that alot of the DPS will sooner or later be adjusted on all classes.  Interestingly enough, even going full output damage my power use was average and I could easily stay close to full or full for over an our of steady going with decent food/drink and breeze.

Could I out damage a berzerker,  no probably not, but again I don't think guardians are supposed to out damage people, we are supposed to take a beating and ask for 2nds, sometimes 3rds and even 4ths all at the same time.

[CherobylJ]

---

XaviousA wrote:
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=6304

Take away 1h weapons and shields. That's what they want, that's what they get. Some level 38 Zerker gonna act all bad [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about parsing 280 DPS against Blue Cons and outparsing scouts in his group, they are begging to get nerfed again. I laugh at this class daily. They beg for the nerfs.

Message Edited by XaviousA on 01-24-2005 11:06 AM

---

Give it a rest.  Most Guards are tired of seeing these threads about Bers ON THEIR BOARDS.  Come over to that thread and discuss if you must.

[Nemi]

---

ChristopherKee wrote:

Reolas,

Taunts rule, Guardians should have the best of them and it's not selfish of them to want/have that seeing as they do not get DPS or higher AC.

---

Just to be equal here, all defensive tanks should have this, Paladins, Guardians and Monks.

[Reol]

---

ChristopherKee wrote:

Reolas,

 

If your not going to give Guardians higher DPS or the ability to be the only class to where the highest armor then you have to give them something. The ability to be the best at controling agro is what they get. Take that away or give it to zerks or paly/shdows etc then you have a low DPS class that wears the same armor as a healer. G.. thats fun.

 

It's also anoying to go to 24 man raids where Zerks or Palys are MT because the perception that higher DPS = better agro control. Taunts rule, Guardians should have the best of them and it's not selfish of them to want/have that seeing as they do not get DPS or higher AC.

---

Give the Guardians something.......if you were in the room with me i would smack you......the guardians are the best damage mitigators in the game now bar none, and they already hold really good aggro anyways, you talk about guardians as if they can't do there job or something. How does a Guardian NOT have the best ac with all there [Removed for Content] defensive buffs, hell and a shield....Please explain that.

 

[Xaviou]

Reolas is mad because he knows the nerf is coming. Learn to love it Reolas. It will be your friend. Just close your eyes and think of a scenic beach when it comes.

[Reol]

I knew the nerfs were coming long before, its simple...its a game made by sony, they love to nerf.

 

Its also annoying to be blantantly lied to by a company that puts out propaganda that spews out words like versatility, balance, fun. This game is Star Wars Galaxies all over again.

 

 

Message Edited by Reolas on 01-24-2005 02:11 PM

[Xaviou]

Bye. I'd ask for your stuff, but you're a Zerker. They typically have sub-par gear.

Message Edited by XaviousA on 01-24-2005 02:24 PM

[reakshav]

I highly doubt a zerker can out dps a bruiser,  I was with one last night, im a 27 zerker he was a 25 monk, he was doing 50 dps, to my measly 22 dps, he was out dpsing the 29 swashing in our group which was about 40 dps.  When i switched out to my 2hd, i was doing about 30dps.

 

 

 

[Noah]

I dont think guardians are going to get any DPS nerf'd.  Generally I have the worst dps on a raid due to using taunts (that do little damage) and rebuffing every 1-3 mins.  Throw in an occational stun skill and get parry/blocked from the front and watch that dps meter hit about 25dps at 50th lvl.

 

 

[Dart]

---

Reolas wrote:

I knew the nerfs were coming long before, its simple...its a game made by sony, they love to nerf.

 

Its also annoying to be blantantly lied to by a company that puts out propaganda that spews out words like versatility, balance, fun. This game is Star Wars Galaxies all over again.

 

 

Message Edited by Reolas on 01-24-2005 02:11 PM

---

The saddest thing about all of this, is the simple fact that people Expect nerfs and not tuning of a class to bring them up to par. SOE has entrenched the idea that most fixes come in forms of 'nerfs' to create balance, they will scale back hard (in the name of balance) and if it is too much of a nerf, will simply give some back and watch the masses praise them for job well done?

 

Aye that's SOE in a nut shell eh, I have to say in my time of dabbling with WOW, Blizzard gets Kudos for delivering a much more refined product than SOE will ever hope to accomplish in any release. 

 

Yes it is cartoony, possibly less end game content, and I've noticed the leveling pace is faster than EQ2. Can solo allot more content than in EQ2, hell my 36 hunter can solo level 40 stuff effectively, if I am careful.

 

So to close, it is a shame that the expected behavior by SOE is to Nerf and not the opposite to address game balance.

 

Fear the nerf bat foreva'! 

[Mentin]

Most likely some classes will have dps adjusted down, some will be adjusted up. It will not be all nerfage.

 

I see nothing wrong in Sony adjusting class balance after the game has been running a few months, except

that they could have hit the target better in beta maybe.

 

As long as I get the abilities to function in my primary role, keeping aggro and soaking up damage, I am happy.

I expect that to be valid for other classes too, they also want to function well in their primary roles. So I welcome

any game adjustment to that end.

 

[Reol]

---

Mentin wrote:

Most likely some classes will have dps adjusted down, some will be adjusted up. It will not be all nerfage.

 

I see nothing wrong in Sony adjusting class balance after the game has been running a few months, except

that they could have hit the target better in beta maybe.

 

As long as I get the abilities to function in my primary role, keeping aggro and soaking up damage, I am happy.

I expect that to be valid for other classes too, they also want to function well in their primary roles. So I welcome

any game adjustment to that end.

 

---

Have you ever played Star Wars Galaxies???????? Yes its a different game, but its got the same brand name on it S f'ing OE!!!!    This company doesn't understand the meaning of porportional balance. Someone at the soe offices has been spamming the NERF button like they are playing half life or something. As far as putting back, I have rarely seen SOE in any reasonable time frame repair over nerfs, I think once they address an issue unless its still broken, they don't want to bother with it until other matters are dealt with, however the poor smuck that pays his monthly fee just got smacked across the skull and has to live with it.

I don't know about other people, but I have started a WoW account, and I am sorta playing both atm and waiting to see what happens with this game, because like anything else in life, if Im not getting what I paid for I leave.

[Ind]

---

Reolas wrote:

As far as I am to understand it, they haven't fully nerfed the Fighter classes yet, they simply nerfed bloodlust and stuff under lvl 36, so any berserker bragging about being able to have a huge dps score, better sit quiet till they come out with all there planned nerfs.

For those of you that don't read Moorgard said in his post, they are going to review dps, and basically if a fighter is doing dps consistant with a scout or caster, they are going to get nerfed, so that will include both bruisers and zerkers, and zerkers dps will be below even a bruiser.

So again lvl 36+ berserkers that think the world is perfect, your days are numbered too.

---

Which post was this?

[ChristopherK]

 

---

Reolas wrote:

Give the Guardians something.......if you were in the room with me i would smack you......the guardians are the best damage mitigators in the game now bar none, and they already hold really good aggro anyways, you talk about guardians as if they can't do there job or something. How does a Guardian NOT have the best ac with all there [Removed for Content] defensive buffs, hell and a shield....Please explain that.

---

 

It wasn't a request or rant to give guardians "more" of anything. It was a statement that if they do not get more DPS than other fightes or Higher AC mitigation than other fighters than Taunts and Protection should be their defining skills. I always seen this game as a sliding scale. You give up one thing to get another.

My 35 Mystic has higher AC than a druid but less HP, but I have more HP than a cleric who has higher AC, sliding scale. So, try and reread my post taking this perspective on it, and maybe you'll resist wanting to slap me. =)

[WabbitHunt]

---

Reolas wrote:

My biggest frustration, is I get the impression from other players especially guardians, again this is MY impression.

 

To me there seems to be a total disregard from alot of Guardians, not all, but alot. I get the feeling that most are sitting back happy as a clam that they have overall control of the tanking job, which to me is a selfish attitude and is not constructive to the game. Yes I realize that the game is going through balance issues, however and Im sure there will be those that post here with ignorant posts too, I do think that we all can be alittle bit better behaved on this, I personally don't agree with what SOE is saying, It to me is double talk, or backpeddling, which smells alot like SWG.

---

Hey Reolas.

 

You mentioned that you feel most guardians are sitting back happy as a clam that they have overall control of the tanking job, and you think that is a selfish attitude.  Np with your oppinion - What I would hope for is that guardians would be given increased taunt capability and their AC improve over other tanks in exchange for less dps.  Guardians should be the #1 tank but in return for an awesome raw ability to absorb/shrug off damage they should be so busy parrying and shield blocking that their ability to get a sword thrust in should be decreased.  In light of this other fighters should have lesser tanking/ac abilities but their dps should be higher, or like in the case of paladins their spells more beneficial/more powerful.  Each fighter has a roll to play and if one needs to step up and tank they should be able to, but if a Guardian is around that character should be able to be considered the primary candidate for tanking.

 

As for SOE backpeddling...eh, oh well.  One can only be in beta for so long and one can only have so many beta testers before the company needs to turn a profit for their R&D.  Now that the game is live their beta testing pool (us) has increased so significantly that the smaller quirks they didn't catch before are compounded greater.  It happens.

[commandob]

---

ChristopherKee wrote:

Reolas,

 

If your not going to give Guardians higher DPS or the ability to be the only class to where the highest armor then you have to give them something. The ability to be the best at controling agro is what they get. Take that away or give it to zerks or paly/shdows etc then you have a low DPS class that wears the same armor as a healer. G.. thats fun.

 

It's also anoying to go to 24 man raids where Zerks or Palys are MT because the perception that higher DPS = better agro control. Taunts rule, Guardians should have the best of them and it's not selfish of them to want/have that seeing as they do not get DPS or higher AC.

---

first off no one not ever a dev ever said Guardian or the Uber tank so why give guardian anything , all i see on this forum page is Guardian crying Nerf assassins Monk and zerkers , alot of guardian ive meet in game  or very good tank with nice damage , but most i read here just whinne , as a poster said guardian will get nerfed too as you dont do as much damage as zerker +36 but you or close , as for the we need to have better armour , WHY please explain as the devs post all tank or balanced so why give guardian all the Damage mirgration and all the best armour , while nerfing the REst of the tank classes , i play a guardian & and zerker the guardian is hands down the better tank , the aerker cant take as much damage , but you still whine about or damage ?? 

[TunaBoo]

Try the period. It works wonders.

[Raztheorigin]

XaviousA = a pathetic trollenuf said

Message Edited by Raztheoriginal on 01-26-2005 01:30 AM

[Reol]

---

commandobob wrote:

---

ChristopherKee wrote:

Reolas,

 

If your not going to give Guardians higher DPS or the ability to be the only class to where the highest armor then you have to give them something. The ability to be the best at controling agro is what they get. Take that away or give it to zerks or paly/shdows etc then you have a low DPS class that wears the same armor as a healer. G.. thats fun.

 

It's also anoying to go to 24 man raids where Zerks or Palys are MT because the perception that higher DPS = better agro control. Taunts rule, Guardians should have the best of them and it's not selfish of them to want/have that seeing as they do not get DPS or higher AC.

---

first off no one not ever a dev ever said Guardian or the Uber tank so why give guardian anything , all i see on this forum page is Guardian crying Nerf assassins Monk and zerkers , alot of guardian ive meet in game  or very good tank with nice damage , but most i read here just whinne , as a poster said guardian will get nerfed too as you dont do as much damage as zerker +36 but you or close , as for the we need to have better armour , WHY please explain as the devs post all tank or balanced so why give guardian all the Damage mirgration and all the best armour , while nerfing the REst of the tank classes , i play a guardian & and zerker the guardian is hands down the better tank , the aerker cant take as much damage , but you still whine about or damage ?? 

---

T-H-A-N-K------Y-O-U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Someone not sitting under the desk of an SOE employee, Guardians wanting every class nerfed and for SOE to turn around and give them everyone....the phrase Have your cake and eat it too, you guys have taken to heart it seems.

 

This stuff is what pis.ses  me off the most, since my zerker and bruiser are both getting the nerf bat, and Guardians are all of a sudden the golden boy tanks of SOE and YET I hear guardians whining about getting better armor, more ac, whaaaaa!! whaaaa!! whaaaa!!

 

So [FaarNerfed!] about guardians being unwanted or not getting anything....keep asking SOE for something and they will give you a nerf up side the head for being dumb.

[ilikeladi]

"T-H-A-N-K------Y-O-U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!---reolas

Your welcome, you have class's early in the morning now go to bed you little brat.

 

Someone not sitting under the desk of an SOE employee, Guardians wanting every class nerfed and for SOE to turn around and give them everyone....the phrase Have your cake and eat it too, you guys have taken to heart it seems.---reolas

Maybe you havent noticed it but not "all" guardians want "all" class's to get nerfed.  Wake up [Removed for Content] and start taking a look at the big picture, stop sterotyping people and stop being straightup racist.   Dont put "all" guardians in the same basket.  Bad apples are everywhere.  opps your a troll ... why did i even type the above, you just want to start an arguement..idiot.

 

This stuff is what pis.ses  me off the most, since my zerker and bruiser are both getting the nerf bat, and Guardians are all of a sudden the golden boy tanks of SOE and YET I hear guardians whining about getting better armor, more ac, whaaaaa!! whaaaa!! whaaaa!!---reolas

Your still mad about bloodlust it looks, every zerk new it was gonna get changed now shut up about it. Monks arent nerfed, they tank just as good as they ever have.  Beserkers arent nerfed, they also tank just as good as they ever have.  Again your pointing the finger at the guardians becuase "changes" are made.  Seriously your dumber than a box of rocks.

 

So [FaarNerfed!] about guardians being unwanted or not getting anything....keep asking SOE for something and they will give you a nerf up side the head for being dumb." ---reolas

Well i'm not dumb, no one is actually "dumb" well except you evedently.  Ignorent yes all of us are ignorent at times. All of us can be stupid at times also. Maybe you dont know what ignorent/stupid is so i'll explain.

 

Ignorent is when you do something that is wrong but you dont know any better.

 

Stupid is when you do something that is wrong but you did know better.

 

Your proving yourself stupid, you know your statements against guardians are wrong.  But hey you are a troll.

 

So go [FaarNerfed!] yourself you little punk.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Message Edited by ilikeladies on 01-26-2005 08:46 AM

[Teh_n0]

---

Reolas wrote:

---

Mentin wrote:

Most likely some classes will have dps adjusted down, some will be adjusted up. It will not be all nerfage.

 

I see nothing wrong in Sony adjusting class balance after the game has been running a few months, except

that they could have hit the target better in beta maybe.

 

As long as I get the abilities to function in my primary role, keeping aggro and soaking up damage, I am happy.

I expect that to be valid for other classes too, they also want to function well in their primary roles. So I welcome

any game adjustment to that end.

 

---

Have you ever played Star Wars Galaxies???????? Yes its a different game, but its got the same brand name on it S f'ing OE!!!!    This company doesn't understand the meaning of porportional balance. Someone at the soe offices has been spamming the NERF button like they are playing half life or something. As far as putting back, I have rarely seen SOE in any reasonable time frame repair over nerfs, I think once they address an issue unless its still broken, they don't want to bother with it until other matters are dealt with, however the poor smuck that pays his monthly fee just got smacked across the skull and has to live with it.

I don't know about other people, but I have started a WoW account, and I am sorta playing both atm and waiting to see what happens with this game, because like anything else in life, if Im not getting what I paid for I leave.

---

Reolas, if you hate nerfs that bad then do us and yourself a favor and quit.  There is no mmorpg out that hasnt endured nerfs.  It WILL happen, live with it and shut your [FaarNerfed!] mouth.  If you hate SOE so bad, then why are you here?  Once again, QUIT, and do yourself and us a favor. You are by FAR, the biggest crybaby on these boards bar none.