The Alternate Timeline Rears Its Ugly Head [Minor Spoilers]

[Anaogi]

We've known for a while that the current state of lore for EQ1 and EQ2 constitute diverging timelines, starting from Planes of Power on.  There was an in-game acknowledgement of this in the 'Words of Zebuxoruk', but now EQ2 Norrathians have actually seen it, thanks to a minor glitch in the chronomancy used in the Skyshrine quest lines.

The 'money quotes' are in the part where you visit 'Ocean of Tears', in an event suspiciously familiar to the anniversary Chronoportal event (complete with Allizewsaur!), but with one exception...you aren't alone.  The other group of adventurers there talk about events depicted in the recent 'House of Thule' EQ1 expansion, causing some consternation when you return to Skyshrine!

It's effectively a throwaway for now, but one wonders if larger things will come of this...

[Cusashorn]

Wait, the other adventurers' dialogue all consists of your standard out-of-character dialogue that the PLAYERS would usually be having? They weren't Norrathians who just happened to have knowledge of Thule's family?

[Larkverdin]

I'll go ahead and provide the dialogue here for anyone who is lower lvl or isn't playing. So if you don't want the minor spoilers listed on the title of this thread, don't read below:

[Thu Apr 19 15:32:11 2012] a cleric says to you, "Tha other night, me bruther and me were huntin here when me bruther found tha fabled Allizewsaur; or, more ta tha point, tha fabled Allizewsaur found me bruther. Me bruther was kilt in the prime of his adventurin by tha huge lizard beast!"[Thu Apr 19 15:32:20 2012] You say to a cleric, "[Continue Eavesdropping]"[Thu Apr 19 15:32:20 2012] an enchanter says to you, "We'll avenge him tonight!  And I'll get that fabled blue diamond I've set mine eyes upon."[Thu Apr 19 15:32:23 2012] You say to an enchanter, "[Continue Eavesdropping]"[Thu Apr 19 15:32:24 2012] a warrior says to you, "Did you guys hear the rumors about Cazic Thule?  Apparently, murdered by his children?!"[Thu Apr 19 15:32:25 2012] fabled Allizewsaur roars angrily upon seeing what has become of his sacrificial goblin![Thu Apr 19 15:32:26 2012] You say to a warrior, "[Continue Eavesdropping]"[Thu Apr 19 15:32:26 2012] a cleric says to you, "I heard tha too, but I figured it for dragon dung.  Hard ta believe Terris and Morell would turn on them father while mortals weaken him."

[Thu Apr 19 15:32:29 2012] You say to a cleric, "[Continue Eavesdropping]"

Thu Apr 19 15:32:29 2012] an enchanter says to you, "It's no exaggeration, mine friends!  I was there when Cazic met his end in the Plane of Fear.  That's how I acquired my Hoop of Necropotence."[Thu Apr 19 15:32:30 2012] You say to an enchanter, "[Continue Eavesdropping]"[Thu Apr 19 15:32:31 2012] a warrior says to you, "Hail!  This place be camped, friend.  Unless you want to join our group?  We've got room."

Basically when you get back to Skyshrine, the droag who sent you to that timeline specifically says this:

[Thu Apr 19 15:34:11 2012] Jorlak says to you, "Oh, Thank the Wurm Mother!  You've returned, Larkverdin!  Did you get the actuation scroll?""[Thu Apr 19 15:34:16 2012] You say to Jorlak, "No.  Where and when did you send me?!"[Thu Apr 19 15:34:17 2012] Jorlak says to you, "What do you mean?  I sent you... You weren't in the Covenant District here in Dracur, were you? "[Thu Apr 19 15:34:25 2012] You say to Jorlak, "Definitely not.  I was in the Ocean of Tears, long ago.  But it was no past I have ever read about!"[Thu Apr 19 15:34:25 2012] Jorlak says to you, "What do you mean, hero?"[Thu Apr 19 15:34:29 2012] You say to Jorlak, "Was Cazic Thule slain by his children at any time?"[Thu Apr 19 15:34:30 2012] You gain 16011 XP![Thu Apr 19 15:34:30 2012] You receive 51 Gold, 36 Silver, 27 Copper for completing Blast in the Past.[Thu Apr 19 15:34:30 2012] Your faction standing with Claws of Veeshan got better.[Thu Apr 19 15:34:30 2012] Jorlak says to you, "Agggh!  I was afraid of that!  You weren't just sent to the past, you were sent to the distant past - and of an alternate chronostream!  Those events never occurred in this reality."[Thu Apr 19 15:34:39 2012] You say to Jorlak, "I'm glad I was able to return!"

So as the OP mentioned, it's just a little thing for now, but who knows what could come of it later on.

[Celline-Layonaire]

Now the plot thickens.....   

(But I've somewhat imagined a event similar to this. 'Cause EQ2 is not a re-imagining, just alternate universe or that sorta thing.) 

[Cusashorn]

I... Like this. I actually like that. They poke fun at the EQlive timeline without letting it actually affect EQ2's. And considering that the Shiny Metallic Robe HQ is all about correcting the timeline of an alternate dimension contained entirely by itself, the precedent for things like this to happen is already there.

[Mixxit]

The lizardmen were right!

[Mixxit]

The many worlds wrap around us like the smell of the swamp on our tongue. The world with the five moons and the two moons are only real. The worlds that are not real do not exist until they do. The world of the shattered moon and the world of no moons and all moons do not exist

[Meirril]

Alluvial@Antonia Bayle wrote:

The many worlds wrap around us like the smell of the swamp on our tongue. The world with the five moons and the two moons are only real. The worlds that are not real do not exist until they do. The world of the shattered moon and the world of no moons and all moons do not exist

But very specifically the EQ1 world where the House of Thule story line happened DID NOT EXIST. I too think this is an excellent peice of lore, especially since it perty much says "when we're doing time travel in EQ2 it always effects some alternative reality, not the one we live in".

A further example is further down the quest line you go back to a past...where the Drakota you talk to has no idea who the guy your working for is. Now admittedly you arn't working for one of the big names in Skyshrine, but the Drakota goes out of his way to point out that he's never herd of the quest giver. Several times. I think they are trying to give you a hint with a clue-bat.

[Anaogi]

Not to mention the solo mission NPC, who seems to part-time as a giant...and denies anything is up when you bring it up!

Something screwy is up...but Zebuxoruk warned us, all those years ago, didn't he...?

[PsiaMeese]

Is this alluding to how they split the timeline in the most recent Star Trek film? To us, our prime universe is EQ2. Which remains intact anytime we can chronoportal into Norrath's past. While affecting only the past in a divergent EQ1 timeline?

Have I got that right?

[Cusashorn]

Psia@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Is this alluding to how they split the timeline in the most recent Star Trek film? To us, our prime universe is EQ2. Which remains intact anytime we can chronoportal into Norrath's past. While affecting only the past in a divergent EQ1 timeline?

Have I got that right?

Just keep in mind that the residents of Norrath don't know that alternate timelines exist. We only do because we're the adventurers being controlled by the players behind the keyboard. To everyone else in Norrath save for the Developers who put the Words of Zebuxoruk into the game, history and time has advanced forward along it's natural course.

I don't think it's an allusion to the new Star Trek alternate timeline, but it is the same thing that is happening.

[Ragnaphore]

Anaogi@Permafrost wrote:

Not to mention the solo mission NPC, who seems to part-time as a giant...and denies anything is up when you bring it up!

Actually, I was able to advance the dialogue after his initial deny. (No idea how... I was only able to do this once with one character) 

He's really a giant in disguise and is/was a Kael's spy. He lost all contacts with KD a long time ago and isn't sure if he'll ever be able to return home but just in case he sends you to retrieve artifacts/trophies (in the solo missions) to impress his bosses (he hints he wouldn't be welcome in Kael empty handed). If you're uneasy about dealing with him, he argues that the real ennemy is the Awakened and if we do his mission, we would probably help Skyshrine too.

  

[Ragnaphore]

Cusashorn wrote:

Just keep in mind that the residents of Norrath don't know that alternate timelines exist.

Err... they know they exist by this very quest...

"Jorlak says to you, "Agggh! I was afraid of that! You weren't just sent to the past, you were sent to the distant past - and of an alternate chronostream! Those events never occurred in this reality."

[Cusashorn]

One NPC =/= EVERYONE ELSE.

[Ragefighter]

Jorlak is an 'Apprentice Chronomancer' so he is probably more in tune with the flow of time and history in regards to the timeline than other NPC's.  But only being an 'Apprentice' he might be a bit clumsey at times.  He hasn't dinged to adept yet!

(Info about him being an apprentice is taken from some of the quest text thats in the Journal. ('Final Item for Jorlak', for example)

any way it was pretty cool to go in that zone, even though i've been in that actual zone 100's of times (meeting of the minds and assorted other names, bristlebane quest, the heroic version of the normal zone etc).

I wonder if this was only "fluff", for lack of another term, or if we will see more of this cross over in the future.

[Anestacia]

I wonder if they are starting to lay groundwork for EQNext.  We know that it will not be a prequel or sequel but a whole new continuity; compared to the new Star Trek movie.  Keeping that in mind, we do see quite a bit of time travel being dealt with in Skyshrine and perhaps this meddling will cause an unintended side effect.  So far it's been harmless and we have been warned about allowing events to happen without interferance (I can't remember the name of the quest where he said that) but what if some important event in the past is(or will be) changed, thus causing a whole new "world" to come into existance.

[Cusashorn]

Maybe, but I don't think they want EQNext to have *ANY* string connections with the other games. They said they want to just re-imagine the entire world of Norrath. Recreate the lore. Include some new things and exclude some others. Basically start a true alternate universe, much like all the numerous Gundam series (though there was that one that tried to connect all of them together...)

[Ragefighter]

maybe the gods of Norrath will say "aww screw it lets reroll" after we raid into the Plane of Time again!

[PsiaMeese]

Ragnaphore wrote:

Cusashorn wrote:

Just keep in mind that the residents of Norrath don't know that alternate timelines exist.

Err... they know they exist by this very quest...

"Jorlak says to you, "Agggh! I was afraid of that! You weren't just sent to the past, you were sent to the distant past - and of an alternate chronostream! Those events never occurred in this reality."

I note that all of the Timeless Chronomage NPC's are Erudite. By extension, wouldn't the circles of Erudite mages at least be in the know with regard to alternate chronostream theory? At a minimum, might such a theory not at least get out amongst the Mages of Norrath? So maybe not most Norrathians. But some.

[Wurm]

The only problem is 99% of the players are missing this conversation since the Allizewsaur spawns before the conversation is over.

I was helping the 4th group of people through before I finally had a chance to hear it.

[Meirril]

Wurm wrote:

The only problem is 99% of the players are missing this conversation since the Allizewsaur spawns before the conversation is over.

I was helping the 4th group of people through before I finally had a chance to hear it.

More like 86% of all people. At least one person in the group has to advance through the entire conversation to spawn the Fabled Allizewsaur.

[Meirril]

Psia@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Ragnaphore wrote:

Cusashorn wrote:

Just keep in mind that the residents of Norrath don't know that alternate timelines exist.

Err... they know they exist by this very quest...

"Jorlak says to you, "Agggh! I was afraid of that! You weren't just sent to the past, you were sent to the distant past - and of an alternate chronostream! Those events never occurred in this reality."

I note that all of the Timeless Chronomage NPC's are Erudite. By extension, wouldn't the circles of Erudite mages at least be in the know with regard to alternate chronostream theory? At a minimum, might such a theory not at least get out amongst the Mages of Norrath? So maybe not most Norrathians. But some.

Much like some Euradites call themselves Geomancers but arn't throwing around mountains or raising entire cities by themselves I think the Timeless Chronomages we see in the cities of Norrath have a different take on magic. The Euradite Chronomages change your personal "time" (level) so you can experience something that you would miss otherwise. They don't actually send you into the past.

While they are highly in tune with temporal disturbances (thus why they find the chronoportals during the EQ1 anniversary event), we haven't seen any evidence that they are as advanced in time manipulation as the Claws of Veeshan are. Though ever since it was reveiled that Miragul used time travel it has become more and more common.

/sigh, next will be an expansion where we go back to Luclin just after its invaded by Sol Ro and Rallos Zek to prevent them from containing Luclin's spirit and it turns out WE BLEW UP LUCLIN TO SAVE HER.

[Wurm]

Meirril wrote:

Wurm wrote:

The only problem is 99% of the players are missing this conversation since the Allizewsaur spawns before the conversation is over.

I was helping the 4th group of people through before I finally had a chance to hear it.

More like 86% of all people. At least one person in the group has to advance through the entire conversation to spawn the Fabled Allizewsaur.

Don't know about that, we ran straight for the big statue and were getting chomped before we even noticed the group of npcs.

[Cusashorn]

Meirril wrote:

/sigh, next will be an expansion where we go back to Luclin just after its invaded by Sol Ro and Rallos Zek to prevent them from containing Luclin's spirit and it turns out WE BLEW UP LUCLIN TO SAVE HER.

Ahh yes, the Stable Time Loop. You think that by going into the past to prevent a disaster from happening, you can change it and prevent it from happening, but soon find that that no matter what you try to do to alter it, YOU CAUSE THE DISASTER. Always love that one. If they were to introduce Luclin through that method, it'd be interesting to see how we end up effing things up. It would put aside complaints about how Luclin is still blown up in the sky everywhere else in the game.. I think there it was once states that the artwork for it cannot be altered.

[Lodrelhai]

Cusashorn wrote:

Meirril wrote:

/sigh, next will be an expansion where we go back to Luclin just after its invaded by Sol Ro and Rallos Zek to prevent them from containing Luclin's spirit and it turns out WE BLEW UP LUCLIN TO SAVE HER.

Ahh yes, the Stable Time Loop. You think that by going into the past to prevent a disaster from happening, you can change it and prevent it from happening, but soon find that that no matter what you try to do to alter it, YOU CAUSE THE DISASTER. Always love that one. If they were to introduce Luclin through that method, it'd be interesting to see how we end up effing things up. It would put aside complaints about how Luclin is still blown up in the sky everywhere else in the game.. I think there it was once states that the artwork for it cannot be altered.

Well, both Nagafen and the Sage of Ages say that the destruction of Luclin was related to Kerafyrm.  Maybe in order to stop him we pull him into Luclin's past and blow it up with him there?

[Cusashorn]

Quite possible... but we also know that both of them were flat out lying to our faces and we called Nagafen out on it.

[KniteShayd]

Ragefighter@Permafrost wrote:

Jorlak is an 'Apprentice Chronomancer' so he is probably more in tune with the flow of time and history in regards to the timeline than other NPC's.  But only being an 'Apprentice' he might be a bit clumsey at times.  He hasn't dinged to adept yet!

(Info about him being an apprentice is taken from some of the quest text thats in the Journal. ('Final Item for Jorlak', for example)

any way it was pretty cool to go in that zone, even though i've been in that actual zone 100's of times (meeting of the minds and assorted other names, bristlebane quest, the heroic version of the normal zone etc).

I wonder if this was only "fluff", for lack of another term, or if we will see more of this cross over in the future.

It wouldn't be farfetched to see more of this in the future. I would venture to guess that Chronomancy will give the game some room to expand content-wise. i.e. Us finally getting Luclin, via time travel (to perhaps a 3rd timeline)

Afterall, the Nights of the Dead quest didn't seem like a major twist to the game, but ended up giving us a bit more lore and the freebloods as a playable race.

/ponders

Hmm... If Freebloods came about from that, then who's to say we won't get Drakkin soon? Given the direction we are going (Skyshrine, Dragons, them needing help...). Perhaps we bring them from EQLive's timeline into ours via chronomancy. And if not as a playable race, then perhaps as an NPC race, like the Erudites from pre-shattered Odus...

/grin

[feldon30]

Maybe the EQ2 team hired Brannon Braga to write for them. He wrote a lot of Star Trek TNG, Voyager, Enterprise, and created FlashForward. He's big into time travel and alternate realities.

[Meirril]

feldon30 wrote:

Maybe the EQ2 team hired Brannon Braga to write for them. He wrote a lot of Star Trek TNG, Voyager, Enterprise, and created FlashForward. He's big into time travel and alternate realities.

Couldn't be. The time travel here actually makes sense and prevents any paradoxes from happening.

Seriously, most of those shows time travel episodes involved internal inconsistancies and causality loops that make me cross my eyes and wonder if those writers ever looked at their own work after the wrote it. Time travel is a messy business.

Still not happy about Miragul time traveling. But the Skyshrine stuff is done well.

[Mixxit]

Would be cool if they did an event on EQ1 and EQ2 at the same time prior to the launch of eqnext something related to timetravel that would unify the two timelines again so we can start from the beginning

I guess it might need to be done in a way that would prevent the plane of time events in the new eqnext timeline so don't end up with an eq4!