[Crafting Feedback] Please tell me this is not true...

[Senya]

Please tell me that the new tradeskill apprentice is not acquired thru an adventure instance that requires a 90+ adventurer?  I've not been on test yet today, but seen this thread in the Homeshow section.

[Talathion]

Looks like ya may have to buy loot rights.

[Cloudrat]

PFFFT

[yohann koldheart]

with domino being gone we should have expected things to take a different path.

[Lenanu]

No such thing as loot rights on this apprentice, he's unlocked by rescuing him in a SOLO instence

[Katz]

Does the solo instance scale or is it set at 90+ adventuring?

[Skeez1e]

Lenanu@Oasis wrote:

No such thing as loot rights on this apprentice, he's unlocked by rescuing him in a SOLO instence

If it's a solo that means solo or duo instance like the adventurers is I'll be happy to kill stuff for any on Test that need it.

[songrider]

"Please tell me that the new tradeskill apprentice is not acquired thru an adventure instance that requires a 90+ adventurer?"

+1

Please continue to allow tradeskillers to remain tradeskillers only.

I thought this game was "Play your way"...

[Senya]

Skeez1e wrote:

Lenanu@Oasis wrote:

No such thing as loot rights on this apprentice, he's unlocked by rescuing him in a SOLO instence

If it's a solo that means solo or duo instance like the adventurers is I'll be happy to kill stuff for any on Test that need it.

Pretty sure that a person would need to be a 90 adventurer to enter the instance and that is where the problem lies.  Most of my tradeskillers don't adventure except for the handful of holiday quests I do once in awhile.

[Rijacki]

Is it the elite or the other standard apprentice? If it's the elite, why shouldn't it be a reward for doing -both- adventuring and tradeskilling. If it's the second non-elite, then I agree it's not a good thing. I am, though, suspecting it's the elite.

[Skeez1e]

Senya wrote:

Pretty sure that a person would need to be a 90 adventurer to enter the instance and that is where the problem lies.  Most of my tradeskillers don't adventure except for the handful of holiday quests I do once in awhile.

Oh, well if that's the case - yea, I can see it being a headache for some.  I wonder if they aren't trying to make something, apart from gear, 'special' to get.  EQ has always had that - a unique design, color, speed (if it was a mount), etc - that not everyone could attain - either because of bad rolls, flag needed - that sort of thing.  Maybe this is a new one of those type items?

[yohann koldheart]

just got the new aprentice, its 18 days 7 hours per recipe, you can do nothing to speed it up. no daily shot at a reactant from him either

[Senya]

Rijacki wrote:

Is it the elite or the other standard apprentice? If it's the elite, why shouldn't it be a reward for doing -both- adventuring and tradeskilling. If it's the second non-elite, then I agree it's not a good thing. I am, though, suspecting it's the elite.

Do the elite mercs require the person to be a level 90 tradeskiller to hire them?  If not, then I see no reason why the elite tradeskill apprentice should require level 90 adventuring.

[yohann koldheart]

Senya wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

Is it the elite or the other standard apprentice? If it's the elite, why shouldn't it be a reward for doing -both- adventuring and tradeskilling. If it's the second non-elite, then I agree it's not a good thing. I am, though, suspecting it's the elite.

Do the elite mercs require the person to be a level 90 tradeskiller to hire them?  If not, then I see no reason why the elite tradeskill apprentice should require level 90 adventuring.

there is nothing on the new aprentice the mentions anything about it being "elite" its just a trade skill aprentice that has level 91 and 92 recipes.

and sadly we have a bunch of new devs working this content so there are bound to be things that will be different from the rest of the game.

[Katz]

Well like other  choices made in this update, it would be nice to know what they are doing and why they are doing it, up front and in plain language.  

[Whilhelmina]

To get it:

• you need to run the 3rd Skyshrine solo mission (level 90+, kill Tigloth the conqueror) in a SOLO instance (mercenary + you)
• You don't have to finish the mission or kill any named.
• You have to go into an alley, observe a fight and speak to a fallen droag ( around -405, 0, 35 )
• kill 4 waves of mobs (if you die you just continue where you were killed) and then speak to the droag once again.
• You'll get a no-trade, no-value, no-destroy stone that'll spawn the droag in your house (aITEM -465888017 1448364127 0:[Deshniak's Teleportation Stone]/a)
• Droag gives you recipes to research of your achetype (woodworker/carpenter/provi or sage/alchemist/jeweler or armorer/ws/tailor)
• recipes are 18 days and 16 hours or so. You can currently right-click and coach.
• recipes are asking for boatloads of T10 rares (5+ rares per statue/item and/or skyshrine drops)

(currently researching arcane dragon statue here)

This is WRONG. In EQ2, we ALWAYS could craft without adventuring, even if there were drawbacks. Recipes could be traded (EH, Unrest, Charasis recipes) so it was possible to get them. Back in the days, tradeskill level unlocked the prerequisite to zone in an area without having done the acces quests.

Adding a prerequisite of being 90/90 so late in the game is just awfully wrong.

The components needed are, I hope, bugged (truckloads of T10 rares (up to 7) and/or truckloads of skyshrine drops). There doesn't seem to be any consistency there.

Provi recipes are bugged (making ambrosial stuff).

I would like to be able to test the arrows. Domino said it wasn't possible to make more than 750 in a batch and the recipe says 2000 so it needs testing.

[NiamiDenMother]

The basic question is "Is being a 90/90 adventurer/crafter (or higher), the only planned way to obtain this apprentice?"

If the answer is no, then several of us can breathe a bit easier, and wait for the alternative method to be discovered/patched/what have you.  You can also ignore the rest of this post.  ;D

~~~

If the answer is yes, this is how it is planned, then I respectfully request that the decision be revisited with the following in mind:

EQ2 crafting has been unique in many ways, not the least of which is that it allows players who prefer to create (craft), rather than destroy (adventure) a game where they can get access to all recipes for their crafting class without adventuring. It might not be easy, it might require numerous deaths, it might require the help of adventurers, but it never required that the crafter also be a high-end adventurer.  Every time new crafting content has been added, there are always numerous questions from the community that boil down to "Can a level ___ adventurer who is a high-end crafter get access to it?"  It is one of the sanity checks that we, as testers, use for all things crafting, and have used as a benchmark since the start of the game. The answer might be "it is hard, but doable", but doable it was. 

This has been a HUGE draw to a subset of the crafting community, especially for folks who might not normally be drawn to mmorpg's.  They don't want to go out and adventure. They want to be "pure" crafters. They want to be as expert in their chosen crafting profession as the level 90 raider might be in theirs. Up until this point, it has been allowed, and has lured many new players into the fold. It also isn't something that can be learned from surveys, but has been learned, over the years, by those who are part of the overall crafting community.

These same folks often tend to be completionists. If there's a recipe out there for their crafting class, they want it. They'll go to sometimes-extreme lengths to get it, no matter how convoluted the process.  Call it "OCD" if you must, but it is, and has been, an accepted facet of the crafting community.

Making it so that there is no way, whatsoever, other than leveling their adventuring class to level 90, that they can get this apprentice, so they can research the recipes for themselves, is going to cause quite a bit of unhappiness, and I'd hate to see that level of upset caused unintentionally.  (Not to mention those who have numerous crafters feeling that the game is now "forcing" them to level all of them in order for each to get an apprentice

I understand that "elite" means not everyone should be able to get it, or not without extreme difficulty, but I'm hoping that a bit of tweaking can still be done to make this a bit more palatable to the crafting community.

Thanks for hearing me out. 

~Mum

(For the record, 6 of my dozen-plus level 90 crafters on live servers are also level 90 adventurers. I don't consider myself a "pure" crafter, but with as many feelers in the crafting community as I have, I can well understand the reactions from the community on this one, and it would be great to hear SOE's take on the matter as well.)

[Lenanu]

In my honest opinion I like the fact it requies being at least a 90/90 in order to get (its been proven that if your not at least 90 tradeskill you cannot get the apprentice). After all, there is a ton of house items out there you cannot get with crafters that are low on the adventuring side. Collections are easily bought but some are no-trade, forcing you to go out to get them yourself in sometimes high level areas. Quest rewards, sometimes you can buy them off the broker but most are no-trade as well, again requiring high level adventuring in order to get. If your a decoratior, in my honest to god opinion, its a bit redundent to remain on the low adventure side as you miss out on GREAT house items that require high levels to get. Can't expect non decorators to give up their hard earned rewards just because you don't want to go get it yourself.

[Jazabelle]

Lenanu@Oasis wrote:

In my honest opinion I like the fact it requies being at least a 90/90 in order to get (its been proven that if your not at least 90 tradeskill you cannot get the apprentice). After all, there is a ton of house items out there you cannot get with crafters that are low on the adventuring side. Collections are easily bought but some are no-trade, forcing you to go out to get them yourself in sometimes high level areas. Quest rewards, sometimes you can buy them off the broker but most are no-trade as well, again requiring high level adventuring in order to get. If your a decoratior, in my honest to god opinion, its a bit redundent to remain on the low adventure side as you miss out on GREAT house items that require high levels to get. Can't expect non decorators to give up their hard earned rewards just because you don't want to go get it yourself.

Despite how it feels sometimes, crafters and decorators are not synonymous. I know of some crafters who don't decorate at all. I know of some decorators who refuse to craft. While for the most part there's overlap, they aren't necessarily identical.

To be quite honest, I spent most of my decorating career as a low-level adventurer, high level crafter. Any item I needed that I couldn't get on my own could be purchased for me by my friends. If it was a looted item from a dungeon or raid instance, I could buy it off the broker, or advertise in a channel, and someone would stop by and drop the item in exchange for plat.

The only crafted item I can think of that is from a raid zone that was not (wholly) raid oriented is the flower from the EoF raid. And to be quite honest, that flower really is a raid item--it teleports you to the raid area. There's an identical flower that can be purchased for status and a bit of gold on the Kelethin city merchant. It might even be crafting faction that it takes. In fact, that recipe might not even be no-trade. I can't remember.

With that in mind, I'm behind Mum 100%. The entire reason I chose to play EQ2 was the fact that I could be a level 1 adventurer and be a capped crafter if I wanted. I don't like combat in EQ2. Yes, I do have three level 90 adventurers, but the only reason I have even one is because I was bullied and dragged by friends. My first 90 didn't even hit 90 until after AoD, and that was my first character at combat cap. And I've been playing since the cap was 50.

The difference between the house items you cannot get as a low level adventurer and the tradeskill apprentice you cannot get as a low level adventurer is that the house items can still be obtained via other methods. You can have someone buy them for you. The tradeskill apprentice is different. If it's required that you're a level 90 adventurer, then you're being penalized for neglecting your adventuring--which was one of the selling points of the original EQ2. As I said, if you wanted to be a level 1 adventurer and a capped crafter, you could be. The lack of adventuring levels didn't stop you at all. It would be hard, sure (anyone remember trying to dodge aggro while running through Kylong Plains in order to do the Earring of the Solstice quest while everything was bright red? I remember!) but you could do it.

Combat isn't for everyone. Neither is crafting. Recipes can be commissioned specifically because there are some people who won't touch crafting with a ten foot pole. Some quests require crafted items. How do adventurers get around that? They have a crafter commission it for them. There's no tradeoff like that for tradeskillers.

Why is it okay to ensure that adventurers never have to craft, while possibly forcing crafters to adventure if it turns out this tradeskill apprentice can only be obtained once you're 90/90?

I hope this is all much ado about nothing, and it turns out there will be a crafting method to obtain the tradeskill apprentice that we either haven't found yet, or hasn't been patched in yet. Make it a difficult, several-days long quest for all I care, just make sure that it's fair to those of us who dislike combat.

Here's to hoping.

[Leawyn]

Senya wrote:

Do the elite mercs require the person to be a level 90 tradeskiller to hire them?  If not, then I see no reason why the elite tradeskill apprentice should require level 90 adventuring.

I will never understand this mentality. I don't see why someone who has mastered both adventuring and tradeskilling shouldn't be allowed to aquire something neat that a pure crafter or pure adventurer wouldn't be able to attain. Just because you're a crafter doesn't mean you should have access to every single thing a crafter can do if you choose to purposely ignore half the game. In EQ1, you couldn't get your shawl or solstice earring without both adventuring and crafting. I thought it was cool, and I only ever got the shawl on one character. If this is in fact an elite apprentice that requires both adventure and crafting 90+, I might actually bother to get it. FINALLY a reward for playing the whole game!

[Gneaux]

There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN HADES that I am going to level 9 adventurers to level 90 JUST to be able to have access to crafting recipes. As the leader of a crafting guild on a PVP server I have been consistantly relied upon to be able to provide goods and services to other players BECAUSE I took the time to level my crafters first! Now you are telling me that you are taking that aspect of gameplay away??? 

I NEVER thought I would even be thinking this,, but if that is the case,, then it might be time for me to start considering options in another game. 

The loss of Domino and Rothgar is becoming VERY prevalant and I shudder to think that after 7 years of dedicated game play, you are now FORCING me to PLAY YOUR WAY instead of how I have been playing this game since launch.

I see no further purpose for me even testing this content.

[Cloudrat]

No one thinks twice about adventurers who don't craft. Adventurers  "tip" crafters to do their grunt work.  So  now we bully crafters and say they are missing out on half the game and it's only fitting they should have to adventure to get their recipes.

Baloney.

[Leawyn]

This reaction is really amusing to me. You don't even know yet if there is a way for pure crafters to get 90+ apprentice recipes and you guys are raging like bulls in a china shop. Relax. I highly doubt they'd restrict apprentices to 90+ when all other apprentices are available from early crafting levels.

[Gneaux]

Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:

This reaction is really amusing to me. You don't even know yet if there is a way for pure crafters to get 90+ apprentice recipes and you guys are raging like bulls in a china shop. Relax. I highly doubt they'd restrict apprentices to 90+ when all other apprentices are available from early crafting levels.

Well apparently the only way to get the  next "elite apprentice" is do go do "solo zones" in skyshrine atm. Yeah right!!!

Well my little level 9 wizard 90/sage/450xmuter/adorner braved the wilds of Fens of Nathsar and got the earing of solstice, and survived the Great Divide to get the prayer shawl, but apparently they are saying that our low level crafters cannot get the new apprentice because we need to be adventure level 90 to do the Skyshrine zones.  Sorry Maewyn, I do not find this whole thing amusing at all, and by you doing so, you are probably one of the people who tries to haggle down crafters on their prices, and now, with this new lot of recipes that will soon become by and large "unavailable" to alot of servers as a whole, because pure adventurers don't craft, and pure crafters don't adventure,, point blank, many of these recipes will not be available. 

Then when we see people screaming in the channels "WTB crafter for [randon level 50 apprentice recipe] or [randon new elite apprentice recipe] these players will simply be out of luck. Most of us are STILL to this day, researching level 90 recipes on "SOME" of our apprentices. That said,, poor little player wanting level 50 junk is going to be waiting A VERY LONG TIME,, not to mention,, if anyone want any "elite recipes" made,, whats he going to do,, trade "powerleveling services" for "recipe of choice", just so said crafter can get the recipe? I can see the bargaining exploits being plotted already with this one.

[Rainmare]

I just did it on my 90/90 and to be honest, the guy that gives the quest says that two people can go...or at least two entities. and the mobs were a cakewalk in rygorr gear...save for the last named and the trio, that you don't have to touch if you just want the apprentice.

so I imagine a 90 adv can bring a 90 tser with them...the TSer is just going to have to let the adv person clear out things solo and then get to/activate the apprentice script and sit back adn let the adv do the killing.

[Cloudrat]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

I just did it on my 90/90 and to be honest, the guy that gives the quest says that two people can go...or at least two entities. and the mobs were a cakewalk in rygorr gear...save for the last named and the trio, that you don't have to touch if you just want the apprentice.

so I imagine a 90 adv can bring a 90 tser with them...the TSer is just going to have to let the adv person clear out things solo and then get to/activate the apprentice script and sit back adn let the adv do the killing.

The tradeskiller still has to be level 90 adventurer to be allowed into the zone.

[Leawyn]

Gneaux@Nagafen wrote:

Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:

This reaction is really amusing to me. You don't even know yet if there is a way for pure crafters to get 90+ apprentice recipes and you guys are raging like bulls in a china shop. Relax. I highly doubt they'd restrict apprentices to 90+ when all other apprentices are available from early crafting levels.

Well apparently the only way to get the  next "elite apprentice" is do go do "solo zones" in skyshrine atm. Yeah right!!!

Seriously, HONESTLY, do you think they would not allow crafters access to lvl 90+ apprentice spells without being a 90 adventurer?

[Gneaux]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

I just did it on my 90/90 and to be honest, the guy that gives the quest says that two people can go...or at least two entities. and the mobs were a cakewalk in rygorr gear...save for the last named and the trio, that you don't have to touch if you just want the apprentice.

so I imagine a 90 adv can bring a 90 tser with them...the TSer is just going to have to let the adv person clear out things solo and then get to/activate the apprentice script and sit back adn let the adv do the killing.

Cakewalk in Ry'gorr gear huh? Thats all well and fine since my defiler is in some HM raid gear,, but she's not a crafter, and my armorer and jeweler are in both ry'gorr and better I suppose that would be fine, but what about the other 7 crafters who don't even want to THINK about having to equip ry'gorr armor simply to walk into an instance to get the ability to aquire more crafting recipes. Thats just nuts!

Will said adventurer doing the killing also have to be a 90 crafter + in order to zone into the zone?

I suppose its a good thing I have friends on my server, because it apparently looks like I might have to be calling in several favors, or tradeouts just t get my lowbies through the zone, which is complete and udder rubbish IMHO

[Gneaux]

Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:

Gneaux@Nagafen wrote:

Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:

This reaction is really amusing to me. You don't even know yet if there is a way for pure crafters to get 90+ apprentice recipes and you guys are raging like bulls in a china shop. Relax. I highly doubt they'd restrict apprentices to 90+ when all other apprentices are available from early crafting levels.

Well apparently the only way to get the  next "elite apprentice" is do go do "solo zones" in skyshrine atm. Yeah right!!!

Seriously, HONESTLY, do you think they would not allow crafters access to lvl 90+ apprentice spells without being a 90 adventurer?

Why not????????????? Tradeskilling, whether you want to accept it or not,, IS a playstyle,, and it is HOW I LIKE to play this game. Getting complex or complicated recipes has never been a probem in the past for a crafter who has done the work. Crafters have NEVER been forced to adventure for recipes, or apprentices and it should IN NO WAY shape or form be that way now.

Give up, you're not going to win this debate.

[Bremethor Uthorzant]

Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:

Gneaux@Nagafen wrote:

Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:

This reaction is really amusing to me. You don't even know yet if there is a way for pure crafters to get 90+ apprentice recipes and you guys are raging like bulls in a china shop. Relax. I highly doubt they'd restrict apprentices to 90+ when all other apprentices are available from early crafting levels.

Well apparently the only way to get the  next "elite apprentice" is do go do "solo zones" in skyshrine atm. Yeah right!!!

Seriously, HONESTLY, do you think they would not allow crafters access to lvl 90+ apprentice spells without being a 90 adventurer?

 I am trying to stick up for the crafters here in saying your speaking rather hateful towards someone who is a crafter and if you want to take your anger out on someone for having an opinion maybe you should do so somewhere where they hate is welcomed and even complimented. These are only opinions and i have to agree that its sad that they are making someone who was purely a crafter to start adventuring to get an apprentice. Elite or not there are people here who have worked hard at their crafting and whether you seen to realize it or not at one time you might have needed that aid when you were lacking in a piece of gear or spell upgrade. So basically what i am trying to say here is stop being angry at other people for having an opinion that makes sense to me. There direct your anger on me since i dont' really mind taking hate from something when it protects good people from being attacked for their feelings. Personally i don't really care for this new setup at all either and i have 90s and several of them. But for those lacking 90s if there is anything i can do and i am on the Everfrost server let me know if i can help in any way since it appears that some folks just want to stir the pot and others just want to help. If there is a way or option for a level 90 to help a low level in any way i am going to jump on the oppertunity. Till then i will hold out and see what happens. Heres to hoping that 90 level crafters don't get shafted like this angry person thinks they will.