Enhance: Mutilate

Talathion · 11-22-2011, 02:29 PM

Enhance: Mutilate is Trash, Notice my Recast... I could never ever get full benefit from the spell because its recast is 2x lower then the spells duration.

instead of reducing the attack speed, it should be more like this

- Increases Damage by 5% Per point spent.

- Hastens the effects of Mutilate, Causing its Damage to occur faster, making the duration 12 Seconds instead of 24, so it inflicts damage every 2 seconds instead of 4, so I get FULL benefit from the spell and am NOT Punished by Stupid Caps.

This is self buffed, the problem extends especially when i'm group buffed by anything that improves reuse.

Jemoo · 11-22-2011, 03:16 PM

You realize that you could just not cast it every time it's up and let it go for the full 24 secs and cast it after that, right?

TalisX1 · 11-22-2011, 03:51 PM

Take a better look at the description. It does not reduce your cast speed. It makes the cast speed debuff on the ability bigger. So your cast speed/recast speed is not pertinent at all.

Silat

Talathion · 11-22-2011, 03:55 PM

Ferk@Butcherblock wrote:

You realize that you could just not cast it every time it's up and let it go for the full 24 secs and cast it after that, right?

No, I would rather cast it again when the timers up, sorry, you get alot more DPS when you actually USE your spells.

Talathion · 11-22-2011, 03:56 PM

TalisX1 wrote:

Take a better look at the description. It does not reduce your cast speed. It makes the cast speed debuff on the ability bigger. So your cast speed/recast speed is not pertinent at all.
Silat

....What?

Where did I say anything about cast speed?

I said: instead of reducing the attack speed, it should be more like this

Now, LOOK at my spell reuse speed, its 12 Seconds, the spell lasts 24 seconds, if the AA made the duration shorter and the damage faster, then that would be WAY better for DPS.

((ALOT OF CLASSES have AA's that do this, so I see no reason why berserkers do not as well.))

Tekadeo · 11-22-2011, 04:02 PM

Dont forget to mention the Focus is insanely weak too. But I guess that goes without saying...

Talathion · 11-22-2011, 10:25 PM

Tekadeo wrote:

Dont forget to mention the Focus is insanely weak too. But I guess that goes without saying...

All our focus effects pretty much suck now that MA's capped... :/

Costa · 11-23-2011, 02:31 PM

Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Ferk@Butcherblock wrote:
You realize that you could just not cast it every time it's up and let it go for the full 24 secs and cast it after that, right?
No, I would rather cast it again when the timers up, sorry, you get alot more DPS when you actually USE your spells.

Actually your wrong as that is not the case for all abilities and all classes. I know of an ability on my coercer i get better dps from if i allow it to run it's duration rather than spamming the ability every time it's up.

Knowing how to play your class is knowing how to get the best out of your abilities, not sit there spamming everything as soon as the icon is clickable again.

I'll agree there are things with the zerk that needs tweeking but a lot of your suggestions will make the class worst off in the long run.

Destraum · 11-23-2011, 10:24 PM

Ok...two points to make.

1) I fail to see how "MA being capped" has any affect on our focus effects. Zerk focus effects are basically enhancing our debuffs on our mob with the exception being Raging Blow which does increase Damage/Hate. So, enlighten us how MA has any affect on those debuffs please O Wise One.

2) Since the Mutilate ability has no large damage proc at the expiration of the ability (like some classes have). It seems to me that if you were to hit the ability once it was refreshed, you would in fact be doing more damage instead of letting it run it's course and finishing. I'll use my numbers that I see on mine (apologies for not posting a pic of it).

Mutilate Focus Dmg: 2349, Initial Variable Dmg: 2111 - 3265, DoT Dmg: Instant 831 with 831 x 4 secs, Duration 24 secs, Recast 13.2 secs

Initial hit now becomes: 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT every 4 Secs for 6 ticks = 11108 - 12262 total over 24 Secs

Now, if you hit it when it's refreshed you get:

6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x + 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 2x = 16399 - 18707 total over 24 Secs

Now, to be totally correct and going by the 13.2 sec refresh timer you get:

6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x + 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x = 17230 - 19538 total over 26.2 Secs

Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I am.

Talathion · 11-24-2011, 02:31 AM

Then add the red slot, and it becomes stupid not to hit when its up, its one of our highest damage combat arts, to bad its a DOT which recast is faster then the duration.

Talathion · 11-24-2011, 02:34 AM

Roehl@Guk wrote:

Ok...two points to make.
1) I fail to see how "MA being capped" has any affect on our focus effects. Zerk focus effects are basically enhancing our debuffs on our mob with the exception being Raging Blow which does increase Damage/Hate. So, enlighten us how MA has any affect on those debuffs please O Wise One.
2) Since the Mutilate ability has no large damage proc at the expiration of the ability (like some classes have). It seems to me that if you were to hit the ability once it was refreshed, you would in fact be doing more damage instead of letting it run it's course and finishing. I'll use my numbers that I see on mine (apologies for not posting a pic of it).
Mutilate Focus Dmg: 2349, Initial Variable Dmg: 2111 - 3265, DoT Dmg: Instant 831 with 831 x 4 secs, Duration 24 secs, Recast 13.2 secs
Initial hit now becomes: 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT every 4 Secs for 6 ticks = 11108 - 12262 total over 24 Secs
Now, if you hit it when it's refreshed you get:
6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x + 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 2x = 16399 - 18707 total over 24 Secs
Now, to be totally correct and going by the 13.2 sec refresh timer you get:
6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x + 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x = 17230 - 19538 total over 26.2 Secs
Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I am.

Focus: Destructive Rage, was what I was talking about.

SOE-MOD-08 · 11-24-2011, 03:45 PM

This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5662911 Trolling

LygerT · 11-29-2011, 12:51 PM

don't use the AA then

it's a debuff, not a DPS increaser. of which it still does it's job as intended.

Talathion · 11-29-2011, 01:59 PM

I guess if you wanna waste 5 AA.

LygerT · 11-29-2011, 08:29 PM

do you think all classes don't have something similar in their trees?

Talathion · 11-29-2011, 09:49 PM

Lyger@Permafrost wrote:

do you think all classes don't have something similar in their trees?

I looked at all fighter classes, no they do not, all there combat art upgrades increase damage.

Destraum · 12-01-2011, 03:19 PM

Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Lyger@Permafrost wrote:
do you think all classes don't have something similar in their trees?
I looked at all fighter classes, no they do not, all there combat art upgrades increase damage.

Better look again, certain monk upgrades do not upgrade dmg. And I am sure that if I really took the time to look, I could find others as well in other classes that do not.

Talathion · 12-02-2011, 12:11 AM

Roehl@Guk wrote:

Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Lyger@Permafrost wrote:
do you think all classes don't have something similar in their trees?
I looked at all fighter classes, no they do not, all there combat art upgrades increase damage.
Better look again, certain monk upgrades do not upgrade dmg. And I am sure that if I really took the time to look, I could find others as well in other classes that do not.

there combat arts do. Which is what we are talking about.

But anyways it doesn't matter, beastlord is basicly a berserker with 2x more dps and a pet.

Destraum · 12-02-2011, 10:05 PM

Wow...BL's gonna do 300k+ dps? I guess I will have to make one up then. I would be giving our swash a run for his money then with parses like that. But, instead of deflecting the loss of your argument onto another subject...let's get back to Mutilate and your false statements.

Just to prove my point, I would suggest you look at Monk Enhance Punch: Artic Talon, Frozen Palm, and Striking Cobra AA options. None of them actually enhance damage. They decrease power cost while increasing hit rates. There is not actual damage upgrade persay to these upgrades. Specially since most monks are more than likely getting almost 100% hit rates to begin with. Probably why those AA's are not likely chosen by most monks.

Talathion · 12-03-2011, 04:47 PM

Roehl@Guk wrote:

Wow...BL's gonna do 300k+ dps? I guess I will have to make one up then. I would be giving our swash a run for his money then with parses like that. But, instead of deflecting the loss of your argument onto another subject...let's get back to Mutilate and your false statements.
Just to prove my point, I would suggest you look at Monk Enhance Punch: Artic Talon, Frozen Palm, and Striking Cobra AA options. None of them actually enhance damage. They decrease power cost while increasing hit rates. There is not actual damage upgrade persay to these upgrades. Specially since most monks are more than likely getting almost 100% hit rates to begin with. Probably why those AA's are not likely chosen by most monks.

Increasing hit rates of combat arts is amazing.

LygerT · 12-05-2011, 03:36 PM

of course beastlords are going to be overpowered, it's one of the main points of this coming expansion! why would anyone buy it or play the class if it sucked?

this is how the raid zones will be cleared in the coming months:

some raiders play the class, find out it's obviously OP and everyone starts rolling one.

soon after...

24 BLs in raid with pets tanking mobs, proccing stoneskins doing 350k DPS each, mob dies, chest pops, loot is distributed!

duh

ok maybe not, but you can bet on them being completely overpowered, that is a no brainer.

11-22-2011, 03:16 PM	#2
Jemoo Server: Kithicor Guild: Faydarks Legion Rank: Guild Officers Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 204	You realize that you could just not cast it every time it's up and let it go for the full 24 secs and cast it after that, right? __________________

11-22-2011, 03:55 PM	#4
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	Ferk@Butcherblock wrote: You realize that you could just not cast it every time it's up and let it go for the full 24 secs and cast it after that, right? No, I would rather cast it again when the timers up, sorry, you get alot more DPS when you actually USE your spells.

11-22-2011, 03:56 PM	#5
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	TalisX1 wrote: Take a better look at the description. It does not reduce your cast speed. It makes the cast speed debuff on the ability bigger. So your cast speed/recast speed is not pertinent at all. Silat ....What? Where did I say anything about cast speed? I said: instead of reducing the attack speed, it should be more like this Now, LOOK at my spell reuse speed, its 12 Seconds, the spell lasts 24 seconds, if the AA made the duration shorter and the damage faster, then that would be WAY better for DPS. ((ALOT OF CLASSES have AA's that do this, so I see no reason why berserkers do not as well.))

11-22-2011, 04:02 PM	#6
Tekadeo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 364	Dont forget to mention the Focus is insanely weak too. But I guess that goes without saying... __________________

11-22-2011, 10:25 PM	#7
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	Tekadeo wrote: Dont forget to mention the Focus is insanely weak too. But I guess that goes without saying... All our focus effects pretty much suck now that MA's capped... :/

11-22-2011, 02:29 PM	#1
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	Enhance: Mutilate is Trash, Notice my Recast... I could never ever get full benefit from the spell because its recast is 2x lower then the spells duration. instead of reducing the attack speed, it should be more like this - Increases Damage by 5% Per point spent. - Hastens the effects of Mutilate, Causing its Damage to occur faster, making the duration 12 Seconds instead of 24, so it inflicts damage every 2 seconds instead of 4, so I get FULL benefit from the spell and am NOT Punished by Stupid Caps. This is self buffed, the problem extends especially when i'm group buffed by anything that improves reuse.

11-22-2011, 03:51 PM	#3
TalisX1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 387	Take a better look at the description. It does not reduce your cast speed. It makes the cast speed debuff on the ability bigger. So your cast speed/recast speed is not pertinent at all. Silat

11-23-2011, 02:31 PM	#8
Costa Server: Nagafen Guild: Black Rose Rank: Officer's Alts Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: UK Posts: 297	Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote: Ferk@Butcherblock wrote: You realize that you could just not cast it every time it's up and let it go for the full 24 secs and cast it after that, right? No, I would rather cast it again when the timers up, sorry, you get alot more DPS when you actually USE your spells. Actually your wrong as that is not the case for all abilities and all classes. I know of an ability on my coercer i get better dps from if i allow it to run it's duration rather than spamming the ability every time it's up. Knowing how to play your class is knowing how to get the best out of your abilities, not sit there spamming everything as soon as the icon is clickable again. I'll agree there are things with the zerk that needs tweeking but a lot of your suggestions will make the class worst off in the long run. __________________

11-23-2011, 10:24 PM	#9
Destraum Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 42	Ok...two points to make. 1) I fail to see how "MA being capped" has any affect on our focus effects. Zerk focus effects are basically enhancing our debuffs on our mob with the exception being Raging Blow which does increase Damage/Hate. So, enlighten us how MA has any affect on those debuffs please O Wise One. 2) Since the Mutilate ability has no large damage proc at the expiration of the ability (like some classes have). It seems to me that if you were to hit the ability once it was refreshed, you would in fact be doing more damage instead of letting it run it's course and finishing. I'll use my numbers that I see on mine (apologies for not posting a pic of it). Mutilate Focus Dmg: 2349, Initial Variable Dmg: 2111 - 3265, DoT Dmg: Instant 831 with 831 x 4 secs, Duration 24 secs, Recast 13.2 secs Initial hit now becomes: 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT every 4 Secs for 6 ticks = 11108 - 12262 total over 24 Secs Now, if you hit it when it's refreshed you get: 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x + 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 2x = 16399 - 18707 total over 24 Secs Now, to be totally correct and going by the 13.2 sec refresh timer you get: 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x + 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x = 17230 - 19538 total over 26.2 Secs Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I am. __________________

11-24-2011, 02:31 AM	#10
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	Then add the red slot, and it becomes stupid not to hit when its up, its one of our highest damage combat arts, to bad its a DOT which recast is faster then the duration.

11-24-2011, 02:34 AM	#11
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	Roehl@Guk wrote: Ok...two points to make. 1) I fail to see how "MA being capped" has any affect on our focus effects. Zerk focus effects are basically enhancing our debuffs on our mob with the exception being Raging Blow which does increase Damage/Hate. So, enlighten us how MA has any affect on those debuffs please O Wise One. 2) Since the Mutilate ability has no large damage proc at the expiration of the ability (like some classes have). It seems to me that if you were to hit the ability once it was refreshed, you would in fact be doing more damage instead of letting it run it's course and finishing. I'll use my numbers that I see on mine (apologies for not posting a pic of it). Mutilate Focus Dmg: 2349, Initial Variable Dmg: 2111 - 3265, DoT Dmg: Instant 831 with 831 x 4 secs, Duration 24 secs, Recast 13.2 secs Initial hit now becomes: 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT every 4 Secs for 6 ticks = 11108 - 12262 total over 24 Secs Now, if you hit it when it's refreshed you get: 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x + 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 2x = 16399 - 18707 total over 24 Secs Now, to be totally correct and going by the 13.2 sec refresh timer you get: 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x + 6122 - 7276 with a 831 DoT that ticks 3x = 17230 - 19538 total over 26.2 Secs Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I am. Focus: Destructive Rage, was what I was talking about.

11-24-2011, 03:45 PM	#12
SOE-MOD-08 Community Moderator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 323	This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5662911 Trolling

11-29-2011, 12:51 PM	#13
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	don't use the AA then it's a debuff, not a DPS increaser. of which it still does it's job as intended.

11-29-2011, 01:59 PM	#14
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	I guess if you wanna waste 5 AA.

11-29-2011, 08:29 PM	#15
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	do you think all classes don't have something similar in their trees?

11-29-2011, 09:49 PM	#16
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	Lyger@Permafrost wrote: do you think all classes don't have something similar in their trees? I looked at all fighter classes, no they do not, all there combat art upgrades increase damage.

12-01-2011, 03:19 PM	#17
Destraum Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 42	Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote: Lyger@Permafrost wrote: do you think all classes don't have something similar in their trees? I looked at all fighter classes, no they do not, all there combat art upgrades increase damage. Better look again, certain monk upgrades do not upgrade dmg. And I am sure that if I really took the time to look, I could find others as well in other classes that do not. __________________

12-02-2011, 12:11 AM	#18
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	Roehl@Guk wrote: Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote: Lyger@Permafrost wrote: do you think all classes don't have something similar in their trees? I looked at all fighter classes, no they do not, all there combat art upgrades increase damage. Better look again, certain monk upgrades do not upgrade dmg. And I am sure that if I really took the time to look, I could find others as well in other classes that do not. there combat arts do. Which is what we are talking about. But anyways it doesn't matter, beastlord is basicly a berserker with 2x more dps and a pet.

12-02-2011, 10:05 PM	#19
Destraum Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 42	Wow...BL's gonna do 300k+ dps? I guess I will have to make one up then. I would be giving our swash a run for his money then with parses like that. But, instead of deflecting the loss of your argument onto another subject...let's get back to Mutilate and your false statements. Just to prove my point, I would suggest you look at Monk Enhance Punch: Artic Talon, Frozen Palm, and Striking Cobra AA options. None of them actually enhance damage. They decrease power cost while increasing hit rates. There is not actual damage upgrade persay to these upgrades. Specially since most monks are more than likely getting almost 100% hit rates to begin with. Probably why those AA's are not likely chosen by most monks. __________________

12-03-2011, 04:47 PM	#20
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	Roehl@Guk wrote: Wow...BL's gonna do 300k+ dps? I guess I will have to make one up then. I would be giving our swash a run for his money then with parses like that. But, instead of deflecting the loss of your argument onto another subject...let's get back to Mutilate and your false statements. Just to prove my point, I would suggest you look at Monk Enhance Punch: Artic Talon, Frozen Palm, and Striking Cobra AA options. None of them actually enhance damage. They decrease power cost while increasing hit rates. There is not actual damage upgrade persay to these upgrades. Specially since most monks are more than likely getting almost 100% hit rates to begin with. Probably why those AA's are not likely chosen by most monks. Increasing hit rates of combat arts is amazing.

12-05-2011, 03:36 PM	#21
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	of course beastlords are going to be overpowered, it's one of the main points of this coming expansion! why would anyone buy it or play the class if it sucked? this is how the raid zones will be cleared in the coming months: some raiders play the class, find out it's obviously OP and everyone starts rolling one. soon after... 24 BLs in raid with pets tanking mobs, proccing stoneskins doing 350k DPS each, mob dies, chest pops, loot is distributed! duh ok maybe not, but you can bet on them being completely overpowered, that is a no brainer.