Upcoming Removal of Velium Shards Requirement for Rygorr Gear

Bawang · 10-05-2011, 03:51 PM

This was in the Oct. 4 test update notes:

TRADESKILLS

Thurgadin and Ry’gorr armor set recipes no longer require velium shards.

ITEMS

Thurgadin armor sets no longer require velium shards to be purchased. Faction and coin are still required.
Rygorr armor sets no longer require velium shards to be purchased. Faction, refined gems, and coin are still required.

And there's currently a nice write-up of the whole issue in Eq2wire.com:

http://eq2wire.com/2011/10/05/on-te...rds/#more-11156

Yesterday there was a huge flame war on the Antonia Bayle 80-89 chat channel about this possibly upcoming change (of course, things on test are not guaranteed to go live). There seem to be two opposing camps on this: Those who think the game is being terribly watered down to satisfy the care bears and those who welcome this change because they don't have the time (or the stomach) to do countless shard runs to gear up their many alts.

I myself welcome this change for the following reasons:

1. Although I have a few toons raid geared, it seems to me the circle of people who can sucessfully finish zones like EoW and the other Drunder zones is very small. I dread joining people who I don't know because it almost always ends in a lockout with nothing to show for it. We need more people well geared simply so we can have more people to play with in the harder zones.

2. When you have a lot level 90 alts (as I do) it's mind bogling when you count how many shards you will need to put all of them in rygorr gear and extrapolate that to how many shard runs you'll have to do to get all those shards. I simply don't have the time or the stomach for it. This kind of mindless and seemingly eternal grind to fulfill requirements just so you can enter certain zones is not fun.

I'd like others to weigh in on how they view this possible change.

Discuss

Bawango

thewarriorpoet · 10-05-2011, 03:56 PM

Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. SMILEY Getting those books is a pita grind.

urgthock · 10-05-2011, 04:03 PM

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind.

Actually there is a HUGE incentive to get your ry'gorr gear made by a crafter; you don't have to worry about faction.

Bawang · 10-05-2011, 04:11 PM

urgthock wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:
Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind.
Actually there is a HUGE incentive to get your ry'gorr gear made by a crafter; you don't have to worry about faction.

Frankly, with the new series of quests which were introduced in Eastern Wastes recently, getting your Rygorr faction to 40k is piece of cake now. Thurgadin faction is quite another matter. I think Warriorpoet has very valid point and is something I had noted myself although I'm not a crafter. This change lets players totally bypass the crafter (except for making gems scintillating), since the only reason you went to a crafter for armor gear (other than faction) was to save the five shards per item.

yohann koldheart · 10-05-2011, 04:23 PM

urgthock wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:
Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind.
Actually there is a HUGE incentive to get your ry'gorr gear made by a crafter; you don't have to worry about faction.

faction really isnt a issue now, there is more then enough quests to get a toon well over 40k rygor faction, and you can use the faction stone for thurg faction.

they added the heirloom faction token so if you have 1 toon with 40k you just buy the token, heirloom it over and examin it and poof your ally with that faction without ever doing a single quest.

CascadiaHermit · 10-05-2011, 04:27 PM

Bawang wrote:

urgthock wrote:
thewarriorpoet wrote:
Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind.
Actually there is a HUGE incentive to get your ry'gorr gear made by a crafter; you don't have to worry about faction.
Frankly, with the new series of quests which were introduced in Eastern Wastes recently, getting your Rygorr faction to 40k is piece of cake now. Thurgadin faction is quite another matter. I think Warriorpoet has very valid point and is something I had noted myself although I'm not a crafter. This change lets players totally bypass the crafter (except for making gems scintillating), since the only reason you went to a crafter for armor gear (other than faction) was to save the five shards per item.

The very fact that you'll also save yourself the extra plat involved is also another incentive. Although the new faction quests in the Eastern Wastes does make it easier to get 40k, the fact that the quest is 500 faction per completion is still a factor that has to be taken into consideration. I myself have a sizable legion of Alternate characters on mutliple accounts, and the thought that I will have to get at least 1 of these characters on each account to 40k through a series of grinding, still makes me shy away from doing so.

I'm now looking at my Dear crafter friends with a new appreciation and I lust for their talent at the crafter stations.

Then again, This might just be a change specificly for the Test server so that the testers can get the armor for themselves so that they can properly test the effectiveness of the armor, without the hassle of getting the shards.

Ahlana · 10-05-2011, 04:27 PM

Shouldve lowered Thurg armor to like 15 a piece purchased.. 10 crafted.. left Rygorr as it was but increased gem drop rate

Lcneed · 10-05-2011, 04:27 PM

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind.

One way to fix that is to keep the shards requirement on vendor bought armors, and let the crafters make them without shards. It would accomplish the original goal (whatever it is) of accessable shardless armors and keep the crafters happy.

thewarriorpoet · 10-05-2011, 04:35 PM

40k ry'gorr faction takes a few hours of solo questing. They even added that 10p coin if you really don't want to spend those hours. So any and all incentive is gone for using crafters.

Onorem · 10-05-2011, 04:36 PM

Bawang wrote:

I myself welcome this change for the following reasons:
1. Although I have a few toons raid geared, it seems to me the circle of people who can sucessfully finish zones like EoW and the other Drunder zones is very small. I dread joining people who I don't know because it almost always ends in a lockout with nothing to show for it. We need more people well geared simply so we can have more people to play with in the harder zones.
2. When you have a lot level 90 alts (as I do) it's mind bogling when you count how many shards you will need to put all of them in rygorr gear and extrapolate that to how many shard runs you'll have to do to get all those shards. I simply don't have the time or the stomach for it. This kind of mindless and seemingly eternal grind to fulfill requirements just so you can enter certain zones is not fun.
I'd like others to weigh in on how they view this possible change.
Discuss
Bawango

1. I don't dread joining people I don't know for those zones. I just don't do it. I run difficult zones with people I know. I'll sometimes run those easier zones with random groups because at least I can grab a few easy shards to help gear up some alts. Oh...nvm...I won't be running those zones anymore.

2. I have I think 11 90s now. I don't bother to count how many shards it would take to get them all fully equipped in Ry'Gorr gear because I don't assume that just because I've leveled a character to 90 they deserve to be in Ry'Gorr gear. Making plat the only obstacle makes no sense to me. Why stop with Ry'Gorr gear? Drunder gear is time consuming to work for too. I have lots of alts.

Alpharaz · 10-05-2011, 04:58 PM

all that grind for shards...... geared up 2 of my alts with ry'gorr. quite frankly it upsets me to think about that when i could of just waited for them to make the game more easier as they continue to do so....will the ppl who spent all the shards on the gear get their shards back??? lol of course not. mark gear still requires marks, void shard gear still require void shards and yes i know those are from previous expansions that hardly anyone buys anymore anyways, but on this expansion 8 months after DoV launch there is less and less of reasons to grind for primal velium shards and i have wasted too much time on shards that it makes me sick to my stomach to think they are going to take away the need for shards on ry'gorr gear. Its good they are giving everyone a chance to have somewhat decent gear from a merchant without having to run instances for it in one way so people who have been complaining about how hard it is to progress through DoV will have an easier time, but what about the ones who spent a lot of time gearing up ry'gorr from shards? I'm just not following the logic here .... with all the recent changes in itemization in certain gear i'm kind of getting nervous to buy any upgrades becuase i don't know how it will look next update if it will get nerfed or better gear will be incredibly easier to get . As time moves on better gear should be easier to access but completly removing the need for shards on the gear only 8 months after DoV launch seems just a little screwy to me, but oh well it will be good for some people i suppose and if i ever make another alt...

hansomepete · 10-05-2011, 05:08 PM

yohann koldheart wrote:

faction really isnt a issue now, there is more then enough quests to get a toon well over 40k rygor faction, and you can use the faction stone for thurg faction.
they added the heirloom faction token so if you have 1 toon with 40k you just buy the token, heirloom it over and examin it and poof your ally with that faction without ever doing a single quest.

So that's what that was for... I guess I didn't catch it or see it that way. I always wondered why you would want to get that if you already had 50k faction with them.

Bawang · 10-05-2011, 05:17 PM

hansomepete wrote:

yohann koldheart wrote:
faction really isnt a issue now, there is more then enough quests to get a toon well over 40k rygor faction, and you can use the faction stone for thurg faction.
they added the heirloom faction token so if you have 1 toon with 40k you just buy the token, heirloom it over and examin it and poof your ally with that faction without ever doing a single quest.
So that's what that was for... I guess I didn't catch it or see it that way. I always wondered why you would want to get that if you already had 50k faction with them.

Simple. Say you have an account with 7 level 90 toons, but only one has 40k faction with Rygorr and Thurgadin. Now you just BUY the faction tokens for those 2 factions for each of your other toons and presto. No more grinding factions.

kdmorse · 10-05-2011, 05:48 PM

Not overly fond of the change, though I'm not up in arms about it either...

My main's fine, the change is irrelevant to him.

But I have several alts spread across several accounts. (No heirlooming of shards). They don't get out much, they don't earn many shards, so they've only been slowly progressing. But as they do, they get better, can go more places. They make progress, and it keeps my attention...

The day this goes live, they will all instantly go from 1 piece of Ry'Gor armor, to 6 pieces of Ry'Gor armor. Poof, done, large portion of the game skipped right over. I'm just not sure it's the right thing to do, to give me the ability to do that.

I just don't really agree that medium-high gear, that skips progression of 9 zones, should be a pure for-plat endevour. I'll be essentially gearing up Alts with DoV gear, by running OOA...

Grumble69 · 10-05-2011, 06:51 PM

I'm fine with the change. On CB it seems like there have been fewer pools, ascent, CC, etc groups in the past few weeks. Folks are starting to move into the other zones now. So if you're an upcoming player or have a lot of alts (like me), this will help folks from getting left behind.

Anyway, I've never been a fan of grinding shards. It's a bit overkill anyway given that you need the gem for the rygorr. Sure you can always buy it off the broker. But I'm betting with this change, prices are going to go through the roof as folks scoop them up for their alts that they shelved.

S_M_I_T_E · 10-05-2011, 09:15 PM

Bawang wrote:

ITEMS
Thurgadin armor sets no longer require velium shards to be purchased. Faction and coin are still required.
Rygorr armor sets no longer require velium shards to be purchased. Faction, refined gems, and coin are still required.

The real question Smokejumper should be asking himself is:

How many casual subs would still be here in October if DOV launched like this? How many subs would have been lost if it was too easy (see new update notes) to begin with?

I know I took ALOT of heat for running PQ 95 CM for entry X4EM raiding and just letting the X4EM replace the PQ gear. That I didn't 'suffer' like the rest of my guildies grinding 25hrs a week this spring has caused quite a bit of contention for me personally.

Let's not even talk about the difficulty discussed in many threads where raid geared players running heroic instances were having problems not to mention players in less than raid gear for awhile there due to obscene CC and CM requirements that were only then later adjusted.

I knew better than to grind the heroic shard gear given their record of making it too hard to start and casual right before becoming obsolete. Everyone should have.

But the good news is:

Next Exp pack shard gear must be that much more effective if they're making this stuff effectively free like halloween candy.

If they keep doing gear reset they're going to have a problem where some fraction of the population (of characters) are strategic defaulters. Like strategic mortgage default.

Current DOV gear is good enough to duo/solo almost anything SF and below depending on one's class. New gear is going to have to have more inflation power (vs old content) than just more CC and CM to play new zones otherwise the current DOV gear is good enough for the rest of the game without running on a treadmill going nowhere.

Proud_Silence · 10-05-2011, 10:14 PM

still have to pay 150 TSO shards for the "good" items

220 SF heroic marks for the "good" jewelry, and up to 100 SF raid seals for items

But Current content Ry'gorr / thurgadin gear get's it's costs practically deleted ?

I fail to see the path of logic here.

The game shouldn't be altered because people have a dozen alts and think they should be able to have them all geared at the same lvl with no extra time investment.

Elskidor · 10-05-2011, 10:21 PM

Grumble69 wrote:

Anyway, I've never been a fan of grinding shards. It's a bit overkill anyway given that you need the gem for the rygorr. Sure you can always buy it off the broker. But I'm betting with this change, prices are going to go through the roof as folks scoop them up for their alts that they shelved.

If the gems do go way up will people really want to spend a couple k on their dozen alts right before another expansion that will make the gear obsolete? The gear really isn't going to do an alt much good if they're a priest or mage without heroic jewels to make up for the loss of other stats the gear doesn't have.

denmom · 10-05-2011, 10:34 PM

Bawang wrote:

hansomepete wrote:
yohann koldheart wrote:
faction really isnt a issue now, there is more then enough quests to get a toon well over 40k rygor faction, and you can use the faction stone for thurg faction.
they added the heirloom faction token so if you have 1 toon with 40k you just buy the token, heirloom it over and examin it and poof your ally with that faction without ever doing a single quest.
So that's what that was for... I guess I didn't catch it or see it that way. I always wondered why you would want to get that if you already had 50k faction with them.
Simple. Say you have an account with 7 level 90 toons, but only one has 40k faction with Rygorr and Thurgadin. Now you just BUY the faction tokens for those 2 factions for each of your other toons and presto. No more grinding factions.

The price may offset some, tho. It's 10p and change per token. So that's 20p and change for both Rygorr and Thurg per toon.

Not complaining, you earn that 10p and change for that token by running quests etc. But the price can be a factor for some.

sick720 · 10-06-2011, 02:38 AM

its a stupid and pointless change. first they make more than half the heroic dungeons in DoV no longer require crit mit so that the casual whiner types (note: im not saying casual players are whiners, im pointing out the casuals who are also whiners) can enter them without any real preperation required (and lets face it not much preperation was required to start with) and now they are going to make it almost redundant to grind these zones. i fail to see the logic here, but then again soe never were known for thier amazing reasoning capabilities now were they? however it seems to me they are making the worst possible choices at every turn. they are ruining this game.

Eugam · 10-06-2011, 03:31 AM

I dont mind it.

Weapons and armor are tools to begin with, not content. Good gameplay is based on a fun way to obtain the tools to beat the content. Tokens are a good system, but should be supplementary to loot, quest rewards and faction grind. Tokens shouldnt vanish from game, but really be a parallel function to obtain gear.

Say i have enough shards for one piece and can buy the others with faction/money whatever. Just remove the sense of grind from game, even if it still is grind to some degree. It creates an illusion of parallel and multi-success.

Amitee · 10-06-2011, 03:32 AM

Many of you don't understand MMOer "demographics". For the record, a new MMO is scheduled for release on Dec 20th that is attracting huge attention (SW:ToR). Lucas Arts already shut down the license for SWG in an early buy-out, resulting in SoE cancelling the MMO. Also, EQ2 is launching an expansion pack? adventure pack? content pack? in November. EQ2 has been making tons of changes to get rid of "hard mode".

A game developer needs to know their target audience in order to keep an MMO going. There are a couple of groups of players that MMO devs are starting to see as not profitable. One of those groups is the hardcore player: The type of player that blitzes through content quickly, then pushes for more (usually in a disruptive/aggressive manner) content, before rage-quitting the game - or just continuing on with the rage across the forums and generally trying to rile everyone up negatively. Developments costs for this type of player-base is huuuge and with very little pay-off.

Looking at the Station store, I figure they are doing quite profitable on this. As a general rule, casuals (as it were), lore junkies/fanatic fans, and roleplayers tend to be the player-base that spends the most money and stays subscribed the longest with very little aggression/aggro on the forums.

Anyone see where this is leading? The way of the hard-core play-style has been heading out the one-way door since the 72-man, 8+ hr raids of the EQ1 glory days. Games that came out "hard-core" after that didn't do well. "Hard-core" is a shrinking demographic and one that devs are finding it's not profitable to cater to anymore.

Eugam · 10-06-2011, 03:47 AM

Amitee wrote:

Anyone see where this is leading? The way of the hard-core play-style has been heading out the one-way door since the 72-man, 8+ hr raids of the EQ1 glory days. Games that came out "hard-core" after that didn't do well. "Hard-core" is a shrinking demographic and one that devs are finding it's not profitable to cater to anymore.

A good themepark has anything. Little electric ducks to ride for the 5yo. and Hellraiser Rolercoaster for the 17-60 yo and a Ferris wheel for grandma and dad.. It has ready to consume content and sandbox-ish content. It has grind at the Lottery booth and instant gratification at the hotdog booth. It has skill based games at the shooting gallery and pure RNG games.

Most probably there will be always top end endgame and easier content. It is common that SOE nerfes content after a while. It was always like this. Personally i think EQ2's best times have been while double endgame of KoS and Faydwer, right before they introduced the armor set grind. It wasnt that item heavy and had a lot of content. Some raids have been quite difficult and some have been doable by most players without being trivial. Probabyl they should always work on two landmass expansions at the same time. If they had the resources ofc.

Valena · 10-06-2011, 04:21 AM

Amitee wrote:

Many of you don't understand MMOer "demographics". For the record, a new MMO is scheduled for release on Dec 20th that is attracting huge attention (SW:ToR). Lucas Arts already shut down the license for SWG in an early buy-out, resulting in SoE cancelling the MMO. Also, EQ2 is launching an expansion pack? adventure pack? content pack? in November. EQ2 has been making tons of changes to get rid of "hard mode".
A game developer needs to know their target audience in order to keep an MMO going. There are a couple of groups of players that MMO devs are starting to see as not profitable. One of those groups is the hardcore player: The type of player that blitzes through content quickly, then pushes for more (usually in a disruptive/aggressive manner) content, before rage-quitting the game - or just continuing on with the rage across the forums and generally trying to rile everyone up negatively. Developments costs for this type of player-base is huuuge and with very little pay-off.
Looking at the Station store, I figure they are doing quite profitable on this. As a general rule, casuals (as it were), lore junkies/fanatic fans, and roleplayers tend to be the player-base that spends the most money and stays subscribed the longest with very little aggression/aggro on the forums.
Anyone see where this is leading? The way of the hard-core play-style has been heading out the one-way door since the 72-man, 8+ hr raids of the EQ1 glory days. Games that came out "hard-core" after that didn't do well. "Hard-core" is a shrinking demographic and one that devs are finding it's not profitable to cater to anymore.

Without the "hardcore" or "raider" types the game will die. Do you really think that there would be many successful Drunder or EoW runs without either a smattering of these players in most groups (even if 1 or 2 it helps), or people being geared up by them selling loot rights to raid gear? Just look at http://eq2.guildprogress.com to see how many guilds raid in EQ2 .. 396 have gone to the effort of listing themselves and so that is a huge amount of players.

At this stage of EQ's life the Devs should be looking at player retention as few join a game this old.

Tallithia · 10-06-2011, 04:31 AM

Amitee wrote:

Many of you don't understand MMOer "demographics". For the record, a new MMO is scheduled for release on Dec 20th that is attracting huge attention (SW:ToR). Lucas Arts already shut down the license for SWG in an early buy-out, resulting in SoE cancelling the MMO. Also, EQ2 is launching an expansion pack? adventure pack? content pack? in November. EQ2 has been making tons of changes to get rid of "hard mode".
A game developer needs to know their target audience in order to keep an MMO going. There are a couple of groups of players that MMO devs are starting to see as not profitable. One of those groups is the hardcore player: The type of player that blitzes through content quickly, then pushes for more (usually in a disruptive/aggressive manner) content, before rage-quitting the game - or just continuing on with the rage across the forums and generally trying to rile everyone up negatively. Developments costs for this type of player-base is huuuge and with very little pay-off.
Looking at the Station store, I figure they are doing quite profitable on this. As a general rule, casuals (as it were), lore junkies/fanatic fans, and roleplayers tend to be the player-base that spends the most money and stays subscribed the longest with very little aggression/aggro on the forums.
Anyone see where this is leading? The way of the hard-core play-style has been heading out the one-way door since the 72-man, 8+ hr raids of the EQ1 glory days. Games that came out "hard-core" after that didn't do well. "Hard-core" is a shrinking demographic and one that devs are finding it's not profitable to cater to anymore.

When the casuals are paying the money and not slapping the devs dailey, I suspect the devs find more reward to cater to them. Not saying I agree with all the changes, I just see the logic of this kind of direction from a business position.

Elomort · 10-06-2011, 04:39 AM

CascadiaHermit wrote:

Then again, This might just be a change specificly for the Test server so that the testers can get the armor for themselves so that they can properly test the effectiveness of the armor, without the hassle of getting the shards.

Indeed.

Considering all the other changes in the patch notes are being applied in a few hours but not that one... I am starting to believe it was either a toe in the water for SOE or is specific to the Test/Testcopy Servers.

Wirewhisker · 10-06-2011, 05:11 AM

Elomort wrote:

CascadiaHermit wrote:
Then again, This might just be a change specificly for the Test server so that the testers can get the armor for themselves so that they can properly test the effectiveness of the armor, without the hassle of getting the shards.
Indeed.
Considering all the other changes in the patch notes are being applied in a few hours but not that one... I am starting to believe it was either a toe in the water for SOE or is specific to the Test/Testcopy Servers.

I would suggest that if it was designed to be a change that would remain test-only, that a red name would have come along already and calmed the waters.

I also laugh at this idea promulgated by others that Ry'Gorr is somehow a rudimentary, or entry-level armor. Let's review real quick:

When you first enter DoV, you get GreatDiv quest armor (Othmir, Gnolls, etc). That's prime-green-stat of 50ish.

Then there's the more advanced quest armor in GreatDiv, and into EW. That's prime-green-stat of 70ish.

Then there's the TOFS/CC heroic drop armor, the 'shadow' patterns that turn into stat armor when you examine them. That's prime-green-stat of high 70's/low 80's.

Then there's the low-grade PQ armor. also prime-green-stat of 70's/80's.

Then there's the top PQ armor. prime-green-stat of high 80's/90's.

Long story short, there's 5 or 6 'grades' of armor before you reach Ry'Gorr, all of which gradually increase on the others until you reach Ry'Gorr, where you start to introduce focus effects and other bennies. Not to mention the unused Thurgadin shard armor.

If this change goes live, as I've posted in the testing area, you can expect three things to happen in short succession:

First - PQ's will die. There's no reason to run them when you can buy your way into Ry'Gorr as soon as you turn 90.

Which will result in:

Second - The price of gems will skyrocket. Everyone with cash will buy them up to gear themselves and their alts. The super-rich, never averse to a risk, will buy up as much as they can to speculate on the future of the commodity (this happens on AB a lot).

Which will result in:

Third - Kael contested will be camped, constantly. Especially pernicious will be plat farming teams, who generally have a good nose for where the money can be found and will be all over this opportunity.

The devs should seriously consider this.

Cratoh · 10-06-2011, 06:24 AM

Thats a plain 'sky is falling post' about something largely irrelevant.

Peopel will actually be able to go get their own gems. Buy the 2 cheap ones, get 2 pieces of gear, do a bit of running lower dungeon to firm up then into KD zones to get gems to finish rygorr set and off to drunder.

KD contested in a massively underused zone, not lively at all, 'camping' it? Pfft, if it is full of 90s having a blast then great.

Peole saying no to the change are deluded.

Quested G.D entry, quested G.D/EW 2ndry, GU61 questline G.D/EW, shadow armor, low grade pq > hi grade pq> faction/thurg > rygorr. This is a crazy progression - rather than eliminatinmg the quests and removing the crappy 'no one wants' gear they are making it slightly eaiser to get rygorr.

Good for them - good for casuals, good for raiders, good for longevity of game.

simples.

Elomort · 10-06-2011, 06:48 AM

Wirewhisker@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I would suggest that if it was designed to be a change that would remain test-only, that a red name would have come along already and calmed the waters.

You put too much faith in the developers saying what they are doing. I think putting a change on test and then looking what happens in threads like this is a good touchstone of thoughts that remain unpoluted by their "promises".

Flobdeth · 10-06-2011, 07:29 AM

Sorry, but this is pretty idiotic, you add the best non raid gear into game for no effort and people have what reason now to run instances?

Oh wait, they don't need to, you just gave them the shard gear for no effort what so ever!

Not like you need to run them for the shards anymore is it............

10-05-2011, 03:51 PM	#1
Bawang Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 366	This was in the Oct. 4 test update notes: TRADESKILLS Thurgadin and Ry’gorr armor set recipes no longer require velium shards. ITEMS Thurgadin armor sets no longer require velium shards to be purchased. Faction and coin are still required. Rygorr armor sets no longer require velium shards to be purchased. Faction, refined gems, and coin are still required. And there's currently a nice write-up of the whole issue in Eq2wire.com: http://eq2wire.com/2011/10/05/on-te...rds/#more-11156 Yesterday there was a huge flame war on the Antonia Bayle 80-89 chat channel about this possibly upcoming change (of course, things on test are not guaranteed to go live). There seem to be two opposing camps on this: Those who think the game is being terribly watered down to satisfy the care bears and those who welcome this change because they don't have the time (or the stomach) to do countless shard runs to gear up their many alts. I myself welcome this change for the following reasons: 1. Although I have a few toons raid geared, it seems to me the circle of people who can sucessfully finish zones like EoW and the other Drunder zones is very small. I dread joining people who I don't know because it almost always ends in a lockout with nothing to show for it. We need more people well geared simply so we can have more people to play with in the harder zones. 2. When you have a lot level 90 alts (as I do) it's mind bogling when you count how many shards you will need to put all of them in rygorr gear and extrapolate that to how many shard runs you'll have to do to get all those shards. I simply don't have the time or the stomach for it. This kind of mindless and seemingly eternal grind to fulfill requirements just so you can enter certain zones is not fun. I'd like others to weigh in on how they view this possible change. Discuss Bawango

10-05-2011, 04:03 PM	#3
urgthock Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Houston, TX. Posts: 1,308	thewarriorpoet wrote: Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind. Actually there is a HUGE incentive to get your ry'gorr gear made by a crafter; you don't have to worry about faction.

10-05-2011, 04:11 PM	#4
Bawang Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 366	urgthock wrote: thewarriorpoet wrote: Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind. Actually there is a HUGE incentive to get your ry'gorr gear made by a crafter; you don't have to worry about faction. Frankly, with the new series of quests which were introduced in Eastern Wastes recently, getting your Rygorr faction to 40k is piece of cake now. Thurgadin faction is quite another matter. I think Warriorpoet has very valid point and is something I had noted myself although I'm not a crafter. This change lets players totally bypass the crafter (except for making gems scintillating), since the only reason you went to a crafter for armor gear (other than faction) was to save the five shards per item.

10-05-2011, 04:23 PM	#5
yohann koldheart Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: harrisburg,PA Posts: 1,601	urgthock wrote: thewarriorpoet wrote: Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind. Actually there is a HUGE incentive to get your ry'gorr gear made by a crafter; you don't have to worry about faction. faction really isnt a issue now, there is more then enough quests to get a toon well over 40k rygor faction, and you can use the faction stone for thurg faction. they added the heirloom faction token so if you have 1 toon with 40k you just buy the token, heirloom it over and examin it and poof your ally with that faction without ever doing a single quest.

10-05-2011, 04:27 PM	#6
CascadiaHermit Apprentice Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8	Bawang wrote: urgthock wrote: thewarriorpoet wrote: Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind. Actually there is a HUGE incentive to get your ry'gorr gear made by a crafter; you don't have to worry about faction. Frankly, with the new series of quests which were introduced in Eastern Wastes recently, getting your Rygorr faction to 40k is piece of cake now. Thurgadin faction is quite another matter. I think Warriorpoet has very valid point and is something I had noted myself although I'm not a crafter. This change lets players totally bypass the crafter (except for making gems scintillating), since the only reason you went to a crafter for armor gear (other than faction) was to save the five shards per item. The very fact that you'll also save yourself the extra plat involved is also another incentive. Although the new faction quests in the Eastern Wastes does make it easier to get 40k, the fact that the quest is 500 faction per completion is still a factor that has to be taken into consideration. I myself have a sizable legion of Alternate characters on mutliple accounts, and the thought that I will have to get at least 1 of these characters on each account to 40k through a series of grinding, still makes me shy away from doing so. I'm now looking at my Dear crafter friends with a new appreciation and I lust for their talent at the crafter stations. Then again, This might just be a change specificly for the Test server so that the testers can get the armor for themselves so that they can properly test the effectiveness of the armor, without the hassle of getting the shards.

10-05-2011, 03:56 PM	#2
thewarriorpoet Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 235	Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind.

10-05-2011, 04:27 PM	#7
Ahlana Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,238	Shouldve lowered Thurg armor to like 15 a piece purchased.. 10 crafted.. left Rygorr as it was but increased gem drop rate __________________

10-05-2011, 04:27 PM	#8
Lcneed Lord Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 289	thewarriorpoet wrote: Initially I was very much in the doomsday camp. But now the only part that annoys me is that those of us who craft are kind of losing out. There isn't much of an incentive anymore to support your local ry'gorr crafter. Getting those books is a pita grind. One way to fix that is to keep the shards requirement on vendor bought armors, and let the crafters make them without shards. It would accomplish the original goal (whatever it is) of accessable shardless armors and keep the crafters happy. __________________

10-05-2011, 04:35 PM	#9
thewarriorpoet Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 235	40k ry'gorr faction takes a few hours of solo questing. They even added that 10p coin if you really don't want to spend those hours. So any and all incentive is gone for using crafters.

10-05-2011, 04:36 PM	#10
Onorem Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,155	Bawang wrote: I myself welcome this change for the following reasons: 1. Although I have a few toons raid geared, it seems to me the circle of people who can sucessfully finish zones like EoW and the other Drunder zones is very small. I dread joining people who I don't know because it almost always ends in a lockout with nothing to show for it. We need more people well geared simply so we can have more people to play with in the harder zones. 2. When you have a lot level 90 alts (as I do) it's mind bogling when you count how many shards you will need to put all of them in rygorr gear and extrapolate that to how many shard runs you'll have to do to get all those shards. I simply don't have the time or the stomach for it. This kind of mindless and seemingly eternal grind to fulfill requirements just so you can enter certain zones is not fun. I'd like others to weigh in on how they view this possible change. Discuss Bawango 1. I don't dread joining people I don't know for those zones. I just don't do it. I run difficult zones with people I know. I'll sometimes run those easier zones with random groups because at least I can grab a few easy shards to help gear up some alts. Oh...nvm...I won't be running those zones anymore. 2. I have I think 11 90s now. I don't bother to count how many shards it would take to get them all fully equipped in Ry'Gorr gear because I don't assume that just because I've leveled a character to 90 they deserve to be in Ry'Gorr gear. Making plat the only obstacle makes no sense to me. Why stop with Ry'Gorr gear? Drunder gear is time consuming to work for too. I have lots of alts. __________________ _________________________________ "EQ2 is not a "free to play" game, so microtransactions are unlikely to ever have the "front seat" role that they have in F2P games" - SmokeJumper - 4/20/2010

10-05-2011, 04:58 PM	#11
Alpharaz Lord Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 53	all that grind for shards...... geared up 2 of my alts with ry'gorr. quite frankly it upsets me to think about that when i could of just waited for them to make the game more easier as they continue to do so....will the ppl who spent all the shards on the gear get their shards back??? lol of course not. mark gear still requires marks, void shard gear still require void shards and yes i know those are from previous expansions that hardly anyone buys anymore anyways, but on this expansion 8 months after DoV launch there is less and less of reasons to grind for primal velium shards and i have wasted too much time on shards that it makes me sick to my stomach to think they are going to take away the need for shards on ry'gorr gear. Its good they are giving everyone a chance to have somewhat decent gear from a merchant without having to run instances for it in one way so people who have been complaining about how hard it is to progress through DoV will have an easier time, but what about the ones who spent a lot of time gearing up ry'gorr from shards? I'm just not following the logic here .... with all the recent changes in itemization in certain gear i'm kind of getting nervous to buy any upgrades becuase i don't know how it will look next update if it will get nerfed or better gear will be incredibly easier to get . As time moves on better gear should be easier to access but completly removing the need for shards on the gear only 8 months after DoV launch seems just a little screwy to me, but oh well it will be good for some people i suppose and if i ever make another alt...

10-05-2011, 05:08 PM	#12
hansomepete Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 229	yohann koldheart wrote: faction really isnt a issue now, there is more then enough quests to get a toon well over 40k rygor faction, and you can use the faction stone for thurg faction. they added the heirloom faction token so if you have 1 toon with 40k you just buy the token, heirloom it over and examin it and poof your ally with that faction without ever doing a single quest. So that's what that was for... I guess I didn't catch it or see it that way. I always wondered why you would want to get that if you already had 50k faction with them.

10-05-2011, 05:17 PM	#13
Bawang Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 366	hansomepete wrote: yohann koldheart wrote: faction really isnt a issue now, there is more then enough quests to get a toon well over 40k rygor faction, and you can use the faction stone for thurg faction. they added the heirloom faction token so if you have 1 toon with 40k you just buy the token, heirloom it over and examin it and poof your ally with that faction without ever doing a single quest. So that's what that was for... I guess I didn't catch it or see it that way. I always wondered why you would want to get that if you already had 50k faction with them. Simple. Say you have an account with 7 level 90 toons, but only one has 40k faction with Rygorr and Thurgadin. Now you just BUY the faction tokens for those 2 factions for each of your other toons and presto. No more grinding factions.

10-05-2011, 05:48 PM	#14
kdmorse Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 653	Not overly fond of the change, though I'm not up in arms about it either... My main's fine, the change is irrelevant to him. But I have several alts spread across several accounts. (No heirlooming of shards). They don't get out much, they don't earn many shards, so they've only been slowly progressing. But as they do, they get better, can go more places. They make progress, and it keeps my attention... The day this goes live, they will all instantly go from 1 piece of Ry'Gor armor, to 6 pieces of Ry'Gor armor. Poof, done, large portion of the game skipped right over. I'm just not sure it's the right thing to do, to give me the ability to do that. I just don't really agree that medium-high gear, that skips progression of 9 zones, should be a pure for-plat endevour. I'll be essentially gearing up Alts with DoV gear, by running OOA...

10-05-2011, 06:51 PM	#15
Grumble69 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,257	I'm fine with the change. On CB it seems like there have been fewer pools, ascent, CC, etc groups in the past few weeks. Folks are starting to move into the other zones now. So if you're an upcoming player or have a lot of alts (like me), this will help folks from getting left behind. Anyway, I've never been a fan of grinding shards. It's a bit overkill anyway given that you need the gem for the rygorr. Sure you can always buy it off the broker. But I'm betting with this change, prices are going to go through the roof as folks scoop them up for their alts that they shelved.

10-05-2011, 09:15 PM	#16
S_M_I_T_E Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 724	Bawang wrote: ITEMS Thurgadin armor sets no longer require velium shards to be purchased. Faction and coin are still required. Rygorr armor sets no longer require velium shards to be purchased. Faction, refined gems, and coin are still required. The real question Smokejumper should be asking himself is: How many casual subs would still be here in October if DOV launched like this? How many subs would have been lost if it was too easy (see new update notes) to begin with? I know I took ALOT of heat for running PQ 95 CM for entry X4EM raiding and just letting the X4EM replace the PQ gear. That I didn't 'suffer' like the rest of my guildies grinding 25hrs a week this spring has caused quite a bit of contention for me personally. Let's not even talk about the difficulty discussed in many threads where raid geared players running heroic instances were having problems not to mention players in less than raid gear for awhile there due to obscene CC and CM requirements that were only then later adjusted. I knew better than to grind the heroic shard gear given their record of making it too hard to start and casual right before becoming obsolete. Everyone should have. But the good news is: Next Exp pack shard gear must be that much more effective if they're making this stuff effectively free like halloween candy. If they keep doing gear reset they're going to have a problem where some fraction of the population (of characters) are strategic defaulters. Like strategic mortgage default. Current DOV gear is good enough to duo/solo almost anything SF and below depending on one's class. New gear is going to have to have more inflation power (vs old content) than just more CC and CM to play new zones otherwise the current DOV gear is good enough for the rest of the game without running on a treadmill going nowhere.

10-05-2011, 10:14 PM	#17
Proud_Silence Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 342	still have to pay 150 TSO shards for the "good" items 220 SF heroic marks for the "good" jewelry, and up to 100 SF raid seals for items But Current content Ry'gorr / thurgadin gear get's it's costs practically deleted ? I fail to see the path of logic here. The game shouldn't be altered because people have a dozen alts and think they should be able to have them all geared at the same lvl with no extra time investment.

10-05-2011, 10:21 PM	#18
Elskidor Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 509	Grumble69 wrote: Anyway, I've never been a fan of grinding shards. It's a bit overkill anyway given that you need the gem for the rygorr. Sure you can always buy it off the broker. But I'm betting with this change, prices are going to go through the roof as folks scoop them up for their alts that they shelved. If the gems do go way up will people really want to spend a couple k on their dozen alts right before another expansion that will make the gear obsolete? The gear really isn't going to do an alt much good if they're a priest or mage without heroic jewels to make up for the loss of other stats the gear doesn't have.

10-05-2011, 10:34 PM	#19
denmom Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Paradigm Clutch: Never shift reality without one... Posts: 2,490	Bawang wrote: hansomepete wrote: yohann koldheart wrote: faction really isnt a issue now, there is more then enough quests to get a toon well over 40k rygor faction, and you can use the faction stone for thurg faction. they added the heirloom faction token so if you have 1 toon with 40k you just buy the token, heirloom it over and examin it and poof your ally with that faction without ever doing a single quest. So that's what that was for... I guess I didn't catch it or see it that way. I always wondered why you would want to get that if you already had 50k faction with them. Simple. Say you have an account with 7 level 90 toons, but only one has 40k faction with Rygorr and Thurgadin. Now you just BUY the faction tokens for those 2 factions for each of your other toons and presto. No more grinding factions. The price may offset some, tho. It's 10p and change per token. So that's 20p and change for both Rygorr and Thurg per toon. Not complaining, you earn that 10p and change for that token by running quests etc. But the price can be a factor for some. __________________ What I do when not playing EQ2: Paradigm Clutch

10-06-2011, 02:38 AM	#20
sick720 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 47	its a stupid and pointless change. first they make more than half the heroic dungeons in DoV no longer require crit mit so that the casual whiner types (note: im not saying casual players are whiners, im pointing out the casuals who are also whiners) can enter them without any real preperation required (and lets face it not much preperation was required to start with) and now they are going to make it almost redundant to grind these zones. i fail to see the logic here, but then again soe never were known for thier amazing reasoning capabilities now were they? however it seems to me they are making the worst possible choices at every turn. they are ruining this game.

10-06-2011, 03:31 AM	#21
Eugam Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,403	I dont mind it. Weapons and armor are tools to begin with, not content. Good gameplay is based on a fun way to obtain the tools to beat the content. Tokens are a good system, but should be supplementary to loot, quest rewards and faction grind. Tokens shouldnt vanish from game, but really be a parallel function to obtain gear. Say i have enough shards for one piece and can buy the others with faction/money whatever. Just remove the sense of grind from game, even if it still is grind to some degree. It creates an illusion of parallel and multi-success.

10-06-2011, 03:32 AM	#22
Amitee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 476	Many of you don't understand MMOer "demographics". For the record, a new MMO is scheduled for release on Dec 20th that is attracting huge attention (SW:ToR). Lucas Arts already shut down the license for SWG in an early buy-out, resulting in SoE cancelling the MMO. Also, EQ2 is launching an expansion pack? adventure pack? content pack? in November. EQ2 has been making tons of changes to get rid of "hard mode". A game developer needs to know their target audience in order to keep an MMO going. There are a couple of groups of players that MMO devs are starting to see as not profitable. One of those groups is the hardcore player: The type of player that blitzes through content quickly, then pushes for more (usually in a disruptive/aggressive manner) content, before rage-quitting the game - or just continuing on with the rage across the forums and generally trying to rile everyone up negatively. Developments costs for this type of player-base is huuuge and with very little pay-off. Looking at the Station store, I figure they are doing quite profitable on this. As a general rule, casuals (as it were), lore junkies/fanatic fans, and roleplayers tend to be the player-base that spends the most money and stays subscribed the longest with very little aggression/aggro on the forums. Anyone see where this is leading? The way of the hard-core play-style has been heading out the one-way door since the 72-man, 8+ hr raids of the EQ1 glory days. Games that came out "hard-core" after that didn't do well. "Hard-core" is a shrinking demographic and one that devs are finding it's not profitable to cater to anymore. __________________ I'm going to fill this space soon! (tm) Wait... I just did. lol

10-06-2011, 03:47 AM	#23
Eugam Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,403	Amitee wrote: Anyone see where this is leading? The way of the hard-core play-style has been heading out the one-way door since the 72-man, 8+ hr raids of the EQ1 glory days. Games that came out "hard-core" after that didn't do well. "Hard-core" is a shrinking demographic and one that devs are finding it's not profitable to cater to anymore. A good themepark has anything. Little electric ducks to ride for the 5yo. and Hellraiser Rolercoaster for the 17-60 yo and a Ferris wheel for grandma and dad.. It has ready to consume content and sandbox-ish content. It has grind at the Lottery booth and instant gratification at the hotdog booth. It has skill based games at the shooting gallery and pure RNG games. Most probably there will be always top end endgame and easier content. It is common that SOE nerfes content after a while. It was always like this. Personally i think EQ2's best times have been while double endgame of KoS and Faydwer, right before they introduced the armor set grind. It wasnt that item heavy and had a lot of content. Some raids have been quite difficult and some have been doable by most players without being trivial. Probabyl they should always work on two landmass expansions at the same time. If they had the resources ofc.

10-06-2011, 04:21 AM	#24
Valena Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 307	Amitee wrote: Many of you don't understand MMOer "demographics". For the record, a new MMO is scheduled for release on Dec 20th that is attracting huge attention (SW:ToR). Lucas Arts already shut down the license for SWG in an early buy-out, resulting in SoE cancelling the MMO. Also, EQ2 is launching an expansion pack? adventure pack? content pack? in November. EQ2 has been making tons of changes to get rid of "hard mode". A game developer needs to know their target audience in order to keep an MMO going. There are a couple of groups of players that MMO devs are starting to see as not profitable. One of those groups is the hardcore player: The type of player that blitzes through content quickly, then pushes for more (usually in a disruptive/aggressive manner) content, before rage-quitting the game - or just continuing on with the rage across the forums and generally trying to rile everyone up negatively. Developments costs for this type of player-base is huuuge and with very little pay-off. Looking at the Station store, I figure they are doing quite profitable on this. As a general rule, casuals (as it were), lore junkies/fanatic fans, and roleplayers tend to be the player-base that spends the most money and stays subscribed the longest with very little aggression/aggro on the forums. Anyone see where this is leading? The way of the hard-core play-style has been heading out the one-way door since the 72-man, 8+ hr raids of the EQ1 glory days. Games that came out "hard-core" after that didn't do well. "Hard-core" is a shrinking demographic and one that devs are finding it's not profitable to cater to anymore. Without the "hardcore" or "raider" types the game will die. Do you really think that there would be many successful Drunder or EoW runs without either a smattering of these players in most groups (even if 1 or 2 it helps), or people being geared up by them selling loot rights to raid gear? Just look at http://eq2.guildprogress.com to see how many guilds raid in EQ2 .. 396 have gone to the effort of listing themselves and so that is a huge amount of players. At this stage of EQ's life the Devs should be looking at player retention as few join a game this old. __________________

10-06-2011, 04:31 AM	#25
Tallithia Lord Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 772	Amitee wrote: Many of you don't understand MMOer "demographics". For the record, a new MMO is scheduled for release on Dec 20th that is attracting huge attention (SW:ToR). Lucas Arts already shut down the license for SWG in an early buy-out, resulting in SoE cancelling the MMO. Also, EQ2 is launching an expansion pack? adventure pack? content pack? in November. EQ2 has been making tons of changes to get rid of "hard mode". A game developer needs to know their target audience in order to keep an MMO going. There are a couple of groups of players that MMO devs are starting to see as not profitable. One of those groups is the hardcore player: The type of player that blitzes through content quickly, then pushes for more (usually in a disruptive/aggressive manner) content, before rage-quitting the game - or just continuing on with the rage across the forums and generally trying to rile everyone up negatively. Developments costs for this type of player-base is huuuge and with very little pay-off. Looking at the Station store, I figure they are doing quite profitable on this. As a general rule, casuals (as it were), lore junkies/fanatic fans, and roleplayers tend to be the player-base that spends the most money and stays subscribed the longest with very little aggression/aggro on the forums. Anyone see where this is leading? The way of the hard-core play-style has been heading out the one-way door since the 72-man, 8+ hr raids of the EQ1 glory days. Games that came out "hard-core" after that didn't do well. "Hard-core" is a shrinking demographic and one that devs are finding it's not profitable to cater to anymore. When the casuals are paying the money and not slapping the devs dailey, I suspect the devs find more reward to cater to them. Not saying I agree with all the changes, I just see the logic of this kind of direction from a business position. __________________ Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Few are entitled to the facts. Be Careful what you ask for. You may get what you want but at what cost?

10-06-2011, 04:39 AM	#26
Elomort Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 851	CascadiaHermit wrote: Then again, This might just be a change specificly for the Test server so that the testers can get the armor for themselves so that they can properly test the effectiveness of the armor, without the hassle of getting the shards. Indeed. Considering all the other changes in the patch notes are being applied in a few hours but not that one... I am starting to believe it was either a toe in the water for SOE or is specific to the Test/Testcopy Servers. __________________ â˜¸ ÄryÄá¹£á¹*Äá¹…gamÄrga Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared.

10-06-2011, 05:11 AM	#27
Wirewhisker Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Collateral Damage Rank: Leader Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 582	Elomort wrote: CascadiaHermit wrote: Then again, This might just be a change specificly for the Test server so that the testers can get the armor for themselves so that they can properly test the effectiveness of the armor, without the hassle of getting the shards. Indeed. Considering all the other changes in the patch notes are being applied in a few hours but not that one... I am starting to believe it was either a toe in the water for SOE or is specific to the Test/Testcopy Servers. I would suggest that if it was designed to be a change that would remain test-only, that a red name would have come along already and calmed the waters. I also laugh at this idea promulgated by others that Ry'Gorr is somehow a rudimentary, or entry-level armor. Let's review real quick: When you first enter DoV, you get GreatDiv quest armor (Othmir, Gnolls, etc). That's prime-green-stat of 50ish. Then there's the more advanced quest armor in GreatDiv, and into EW. That's prime-green-stat of 70ish. Then there's the TOFS/CC heroic drop armor, the 'shadow' patterns that turn into stat armor when you examine them. That's prime-green-stat of high 70's/low 80's. Then there's the low-grade PQ armor. also prime-green-stat of 70's/80's. Then there's the top PQ armor. prime-green-stat of high 80's/90's. Long story short, there's 5 or 6 'grades' of armor before you reach Ry'Gorr, all of which gradually increase on the others until you reach Ry'Gorr, where you start to introduce focus effects and other bennies. Not to mention the unused Thurgadin shard armor. If this change goes live, as I've posted in the testing area, you can expect three things to happen in short succession: First - PQ's will die. There's no reason to run them when you can buy your way into Ry'Gorr as soon as you turn 90. Which will result in: Second - The price of gems will skyrocket. Everyone with cash will buy them up to gear themselves and their alts. The super-rich, never averse to a risk, will buy up as much as they can to speculate on the future of the commodity (this happens on AB a lot). Which will result in: Third - Kael contested will be camped, constantly. Especially pernicious will be plat farming teams, who generally have a good nose for where the money can be found and will be all over this opportunity. The devs should seriously consider this.

10-06-2011, 06:24 AM	#28
Cratoh Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 458	Thats a plain 'sky is falling post' about something largely irrelevant. Peopel will actually be able to go get their own gems. Buy the 2 cheap ones, get 2 pieces of gear, do a bit of running lower dungeon to firm up then into KD zones to get gems to finish rygorr set and off to drunder. KD contested in a massively underused zone, not lively at all, 'camping' it? Pfft, if it is full of 90s having a blast then great. Peole saying no to the change are deluded. Quested G.D entry, quested G.D/EW 2ndry, GU61 questline G.D/EW, shadow armor, low grade pq > hi grade pq> faction/thurg > rygorr. This is a crazy progression - rather than eliminatinmg the quests and removing the crappy 'no one wants' gear they are making it slightly eaiser to get rygorr. Good for them - good for casuals, good for raiders, good for longevity of game. simples. __________________ Expand Krono! Expacs/Transfers etc! Forum - 1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest Censorship - deleting parts of publications or correspondence. "Where there is official censorship it is a sign that speech is serious"

10-06-2011, 06:48 AM	#29
Elomort Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 851	Wirewhisker@Antonia Bayle wrote: I would suggest that if it was designed to be a change that would remain test-only, that a red name would have come along already and calmed the waters. You put too much faith in the developers saying what they are doing. I think putting a change on test and then looking what happens in threads like this is a good touchstone of thoughts that remain unpoluted by their "promises". __________________ â˜¸ ÄryÄá¹£á¹*Äá¹…gamÄrga Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared.

10-06-2011, 07:29 AM	#30
Flobdeth Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 225	Sorry, but this is pretty idiotic, you add the best non raid gear into game for no effort and people have what reason now to run instances? Oh wait, they don't need to, you just gave them the shard gear for no effort what so ever! Not like you need to run them for the shards anymore is it............