Tradeskill itemization: this is for the masses

Meirril · 09-21-2011, 03:34 AM

I've been thinking about the recent reitemization of the game, and specifically how it impacts tradeskills and vice versa. I think we're at an all time low for how useful our tradeskilled items are when ironically they have never been more powerful.

Part of what use to make tradeskilled items attractive was having some choice. A little wiggle room sort to speak. While that exists in a few items (cloaks and hex dolls come to mind) it has mostly been lost with all the recent changes. I'd like this to reverse directions.

It is my belief that tradeskill made items should have an equal amount of all 5 stats on them. Considering that 3 of those stats are going to be fluff, I don't see why tradeskill items should be charged "points" for them. Maybe after reforging comes out I'll understand how broken that woud be BUT as things sit right now...you gain no benifit so why does it count against the items total points? Not that I have a real clue what item points are, but I know they exist in the developer's world.

Tradeskill items should allow you to specialize a little in variety. Offer a set of equipment with regeneration (power/mana). Offer a set of equipment with crit chance. Offer a set of equipment with multi-attack. Offer a set of equipment with +skills. Offer a set of equipment with DPS mods. Offer a set of equipment with casting speed. Offer a set of equipment with attack speed. Offer sets with extra stamina.

Can't offer enough of each ability due to ballance concerns? No problem: limit the bonuses to a certain number of slots. For instance lets just say crit bonus is a problem for itemization because its too powerful to offer more than 20% at level 50. So split that 20 percent between chest, legs, and wrist slots. 5% each. Just try splitting really powerful abilites between armor and jewelery so none of the craftsmen have a whole lot to complain about.

If you follow this advice you won't have anymore complaints from classes that have optional specs that crafted gear doesn't support. This won't suddenly raise the popularity of tradeskills, but it will let people play with the options and feel better about their own characters because they can make real decisions again.

Oh, and get rid of class restrictions on crafted gear outside of armor type, and things like ranged weapon restrictions. Seeing that pop up on crafted weapons has just made things misserable for no good reason.

Also, what is with giving so much crit bonus and crit mittigation? When your offering NO crit chance, does every peice of gear need to give you crit bonus? Are mobs below t9 starting to crit? Yeah yeah, crit mittigation does improve your defenses against non-critting mobs but we've gotten along without it for 6 years, is having a certain itemization total so important you have to assign near useless abilities on low level gear? Or are you trying to make us all feel better by giving us a little bonus that cost no points because it has no real value at those levels? Whatever the reason, it isn't a good one. Get rid of crit mittigation on gear below 70. Having tiny amounts of crit mittigation and crit bonus before 70 makes absolutely no sense to the people that have been playing for the last few years, probably for good reason.

If your going to keep handing out crit bonus, how about handing out a little crit chance too? Its silly that you can get more crit bonus than you can get crit chance from gear at almost any level. Try exploring other kinds of bonuses that could be applied to gear?

In closing, crafted gear shoud appeal to as large a segment of the leveling players as possible. Making the stats broader means players can choose gear rather than be forced down certain paths. More choices usually leads to playering being more creative, involved, and generally happier as a result. Oh, and the actual crafters might be happier or not. Depends on how much tollerance they have for customers asking them questions.

Finora · 09-21-2011, 09:16 AM

I agree.

Thanks for writing that out so well.

Liandra · 09-21-2011, 10:37 AM

Meirril wrote:

It is my belief that tradeskill made items should have an equal amount of all 5 stats on them. Considering that 3 of those stats are going to be fluff, I don't see why tradeskill items should be charged "points" for them. Maybe after reforging comes out I'll understand how broken that woud be BUT as things sit right now...you gain no benifit so why does it count against the items total points? Not that I have a real clue what item points are, but I know they exist in the developer's world.

I have wondered a few times why adding Int to an item that previously has Wis/Sta makes the values drop. That makes no sence to me as each class can only use one non-Sta primary stat.

An item with 60 Wis and 60 Sta should have the EXACT same points value as an item with 60 Wis/Int/Str/Agi and 60 Sta.

Reducing Wis/Sta when you add Int is nerfing the item for priests as Int is a totally useless fluff stat for them. Sure it means Mages will use the item, but as far as they are concerned Wis is a fluff stat.

Katz · 09-21-2011, 09:02 PM

Well said. I hope this gets read by the current tradeskill person if there is one.

LivelyHound · 09-21-2011, 09:05 PM

I did wonder when they changed stats to one primary and STA why the didnt jsut make it Primary Stat & Sta so that we all have just two main stats. This would then have allieviated the whole item points for green stats issue presented here.

xxFlukexx · 09-21-2011, 11:24 PM

LivelyHound wrote:

I did wonder when they changed stats to one primary and STA why the didnt jsut make it Primary Stat & Sta so that we all have just two main stats. This would then have allieviated the whole item points for green stats issue presented here.

With most items having the same amount of Primary Stat and Sta you might as well cut it down to one stat. If people realized that the 5 stats got dumbed down to basically one stat they'd feel bad and call for a stat revamp.

I agree with the OP. This would make a lot of items identical or near identical which means they could be changed to be something interesting. How about items that take 5-10 times the number of raw non-rare materials for something inbetween HC and MC? Or items that give high offensive stats but little mitigation or high mitigation/def and barely any str/agi/int/primary stat?

LivelyHound · 09-21-2011, 11:45 PM

True with the stats being equal... maybe they should have just combined it all into one It wouldn't actually change anything and would reduce item stat clutter and get rid of the current item point issues. Although if you look at some of the dropped gear it has differing amounts of primary and sta. For example a legendary chest I looted the other day on a lowbie toon had +43WIS, +38STA if I recall.As to the op, nice ideas as usual.

09-21-2011, 09:16 AM	#2
Finora Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,423	I agree. Thanks for writing that out so well. __________________ Lady Finora Mystic of Prism Everfrost(Grobb) Finora of Valiant Knights Test Server

09-21-2011, 10:37 AM	#3
Liandra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Splitpaw Posts: 281	Meirril wrote: It is my belief that tradeskill made items should have an equal amount of all 5 stats on them. Considering that 3 of those stats are going to be fluff, I don't see why tradeskill items should be charged "points" for them. Maybe after reforging comes out I'll understand how broken that woud be BUT as things sit right now...you gain no benifit so why does it count against the items total points? Not that I have a real clue what item points are, but I know they exist in the developer's world. I have wondered a few times why adding Int to an item that previously has Wis/Sta makes the values drop. That makes no sence to me as each class can only use one non-Sta primary stat. An item with 60 Wis and 60 Sta should have the EXACT same points value as an item with 60 Wis/Int/Str/Agi and 60 Sta. Reducing Wis/Sta when you add Int is nerfing the item for priests as Int is a totally useless fluff stat for them. Sure it means Mages will use the item, but as far as they are concerned Wis is a fluff stat. __________________ ____________________________________________ Liandra on Splitpaw Server Lvl 92 Conjuror / Lvl 92 Jeweler Lvl 92 Alchemist / Armorer / Carpenter / Tailor / Provisioner

09-21-2011, 11:24 PM	#6
xxFlukexx Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 34	LivelyHound wrote: I did wonder when they changed stats to one primary and STA why the didnt jsut make it Primary Stat & Sta so that we all have just two main stats. This would then have allieviated the whole item points for green stats issue presented here. With most items having the same amount of Primary Stat and Sta you might as well cut it down to one stat. If people realized that the 5 stats got dumbed down to basically one stat they'd feel bad and call for a stat revamp. I agree with the OP. This would make a lot of items identical or near identical which means they could be changed to be something interesting. How about items that take 5-10 times the number of raw non-rare materials for something inbetween HC and MC? Or items that give high offensive stats but little mitigation or high mitigation/def and barely any str/agi/int/primary stat?

09-21-2011, 03:34 AM	#1
Meirril Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,552	I've been thinking about the recent reitemization of the game, and specifically how it impacts tradeskills and vice versa. I think we're at an all time low for how useful our tradeskilled items are when ironically they have never been more powerful. Part of what use to make tradeskilled items attractive was having some choice. A little wiggle room sort to speak. While that exists in a few items (cloaks and hex dolls come to mind) it has mostly been lost with all the recent changes. I'd like this to reverse directions. It is my belief that tradeskill made items should have an equal amount of all 5 stats on them. Considering that 3 of those stats are going to be fluff, I don't see why tradeskill items should be charged "points" for them. Maybe after reforging comes out I'll understand how broken that woud be BUT as things sit right now...you gain no benifit so why does it count against the items total points? Not that I have a real clue what item points are, but I know they exist in the developer's world. Tradeskill items should allow you to specialize a little in variety. Offer a set of equipment with regeneration (power/mana). Offer a set of equipment with crit chance. Offer a set of equipment with multi-attack. Offer a set of equipment with +skills. Offer a set of equipment with DPS mods. Offer a set of equipment with casting speed. Offer a set of equipment with attack speed. Offer sets with extra stamina. Can't offer enough of each ability due to ballance concerns? No problem: limit the bonuses to a certain number of slots. For instance lets just say crit bonus is a problem for itemization because its too powerful to offer more than 20% at level 50. So split that 20 percent between chest, legs, and wrist slots. 5% each. Just try splitting really powerful abilites between armor and jewelery so none of the craftsmen have a whole lot to complain about. If you follow this advice you won't have anymore complaints from classes that have optional specs that crafted gear doesn't support. This won't suddenly raise the popularity of tradeskills, but it will let people play with the options and feel better about their own characters because they can make real decisions again. Oh, and get rid of class restrictions on crafted gear outside of armor type, and things like ranged weapon restrictions. Seeing that pop up on crafted weapons has just made things misserable for no good reason. Also, what is with giving so much crit bonus and crit mittigation? When your offering NO crit chance, does every peice of gear need to give you crit bonus? Are mobs below t9 starting to crit? Yeah yeah, crit mittigation does improve your defenses against non-critting mobs but we've gotten along without it for 6 years, is having a certain itemization total so important you have to assign near useless abilities on low level gear? Or are you trying to make us all feel better by giving us a little bonus that cost no points because it has no real value at those levels? Whatever the reason, it isn't a good one. Get rid of crit mittigation on gear below 70. Having tiny amounts of crit mittigation and crit bonus before 70 makes absolutely no sense to the people that have been playing for the last few years, probably for good reason. If your going to keep handing out crit bonus, how about handing out a little crit chance too? Its silly that you can get more crit bonus than you can get crit chance from gear at almost any level. Try exploring other kinds of bonuses that could be applied to gear? In closing, crafted gear shoud appeal to as large a segment of the leveling players as possible. Making the stats broader means players can choose gear rather than be forced down certain paths. More choices usually leads to playering being more creative, involved, and generally happier as a result. Oh, and the actual crafters might be happier or not. Depends on how much tollerance they have for customers asking them questions.

09-21-2011, 09:02 PM	#4
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	Well said. I hope this gets read by the current tradeskill person if there is one.

09-21-2011, 09:05 PM	#5
LivelyHound Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 523	I did wonder when they changed stats to one primary and STA why the didnt jsut make it Primary Stat & Sta so that we all have just two main stats. This would then have allieviated the whole item points for green stats issue presented here.

09-21-2011, 11:45 PM	#7
LivelyHound Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 523	True with the stats being equal... maybe they should have just combined it all into one It wouldn't actually change anything and would reduce item stat clutter and get rid of the current item point issues. Although if you look at some of the dropped gear it has differing amounts of primary and sta. For example a legendary chest I looted the other day on a lowbie toon had +43WIS, +38STA if I recall.As to the op, nice ideas as usual.