Gear & Tokens?

[Peak]

Since the PVP fame discussion is coming to a close, perhaps we can have a new one.

Hoping Rothgar will join in!

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Are PVP writs changing? Are we going to a faction system like some people have mentioned? Has there been any discussion or planning to eliminate the ability to zerg and vastly outnumber your opponent, yet still gain rewards as if you had 1v1'd someone or 6v6'd or any other fair fight?

I'm sure people want to know about the gear itself as well, but I'm less interested in that and more interested in the mechanics of gaining it.

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Oh, I thought this bit from Paill was something good to add (thoughts?):

None of this will matter, if writs like they currently do, still promote 50 people getting a writ update off of one single same kill, as long as everyone got a hit in.

If you really wanted to make it good, limit pvp gear availiablity based on pvp ranks, then you could use the same pvp tokens also for purchase and not have to add more. Then you could make pvp gear super amayzing because not everyone would be able to buy full sets on day one or for their alts, with the billion saved up tokens.

Also how will you balence BG gear into the mix though? Because the way it seems our best bet will be to grind for full BG sets with no fame risk on the line, before wanting to step out for open pvp being able to lose fame.

Should introduce fame for BG's also, can do the same setup, allow pvp titles to be prefixes like now and add the same titles for BG as a suffix and mirror the gear purchase restrictions.

Othewise this will be all in vain if you make the gear progressing the same with BG's being the lower risk gear path since there currently is no fame gain or loss.

[Peak]

Perfect. This is very similar to the status idea that had been recommended a long time ago - earning a different kind of "PVP" status which would be used to purchase PVP gear. Or using earning a certain amount of it to complete a writ.

This solution (see below) works out the same. Loving it.

Possible to see that for GU60, Rothgar? If the zerg returns to a certain area, much like Lavastorm docks, then people will gear out in new PVP gear very, very quickly unless some kind of fix is implemented.

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Per Rothgar

We're talking about changing the writs so that instead of being based on kill count, they are based on earning a specific amount of fame.  This way the fame gained for killing 1 person would be split among the group and would only count towards 1/6th of the kill credit you need.  However, this will take some additional work since we don't currently support this kind of progress for a quest.

The gear points are valid but unfortunately I don't have the answers at the moment.  My focus is mainly on the mechanics of the fame system, but I will try to pull our item guy into the discussion.

[Oobo]

I LOVE the idea of how he is doing fame...I LOVE the idea of Faction based pvp gear and would LOVE to see them add Class specific pvp gear if they go Faction based....

BUT the new gear AS to be on rqual ground with Raiding Gear... neither should dominate the other.. ANd it HAS to be NEW system no matter if its Tokens or Faction...People should not be able to use the stock piled tokens to geasr out in Day one OR even be able to do a convert...100% reset and new for everone and NON heirloom

BUT the idea of gear purchases from Fame ranks i feel is not best route...fame should be a beast of its own and an aspect of play that you do and NOT required...cause even though we like or love the fame system for some, there are still alot of players who LOVE pvp but dont give 2cents about fame and to limit thier purchasing of gear cause of lack of a certain title is wrong...they spend just as much time pvping as anyone who fame hunts, hell probably more time sinse they will fight anyone 100% of the time....Not to mention requiring fame ranks to buy pvp gear will for sure to cause tons of Fame Selling...

As far as controlling the ZERG like we had in KP or on LS dock., there REALLY isnt anything you can do to stop people from fighting...like i said above some dont give two shakes about fame or dieing and just wanna fight...Some love the zerg cause its a form of CONTROL THE DOCK kinda play like capture the flag...cause if you look at ANY BG, its the exact copy of a Zerg only in a controlled room limiting the number of players that can join in...

Now if you wanna limit the amount of Writ updates people can get on a Zerg that you can do, just make the /recent list a tad bigger and make it so it DOESNT rotate players off it...cause the more NEW players you put on it the more /recent players rotate off...So in a MASS fight like KP dock/WFs/LS dock its a continues /recent refresh as people join the fight.. just lock it...the /recent list DOESNT reset at all for 30mins no matter how many people you kill during that time.. then your just killing to be killing..=)

[Kimber]

I am a PvP not the best and not the worst some where in the middle.  I enjoy the Hunt from the old days full groups finding other full groups in Fens or JW and bashing it out even raid on raid at the doors to VP or waiting to go into Levi.

However the Zerg can be fun too.  Yes it promotes token farming and takes less skill or more skill depending on which side of the zerg you are on.  I am sure we have all been on both sides of it.

All things being equal though including gear a poor player will still lose to the better player unless we are talking OP class's.  Even then the OP class does not always win against a lesser class I have seen decent geard preds and tanks be taken out by well played bards.  Yes there needs to be a reset for the tokens and fame but to say a toon cannot buy a piece of arm cause they are a hunter is not right imo.  Like Oobo said some of us fight no matter what ( cannot believe I agreed with him but hey he has a good point )  I will admit I dont always fight sometimes I just dont want to but those are less than I run so I will prolly be one of those Hunters-Dessy that goes up and down like a yo-yo under the new/old system.

[Peak]

Oobo@Nagafen wrote:

Now if you wanna limit the amount of Writ updates people can get on a Zerg that you can do, just make the /recent list a tad bigger and make it so it DOESNT rotate players off it...cause the more NEW players you put on it the more /recent players rotate off...So in a MASS fight like KP dock/WFs/LS dock its a continues /recent refresh as people join the fight.. just lock it...the /recent list DOESNT reset at all for 30mins no matter how many people you kill during that time.. then your just killing to be killing..=)

They already did that before.

Honestly, Rothgar's proposed writ change of requiring earning a certain amount of fame to complete each writ will do a lot to combat the zerg. I think it will fix most of the issues we're seeing with writs.

It may still be around, but you won't gear out a toon super fast just because you're in the middle of a thousand people fighting.

[Oobo]

still the best way to combat the zerg gearing is LOCK that /recent list so we cant keep rotating people off it as more people show up to the zerg like it did in KP and LS dock zerg.... Letting Fame decide how much gear you get is the WRONG way to go, again not everyone gives two shakes about fame... Fame should be a seperate monster and another aspect of the game for FUN, not a forced action if you want to gear out...

[Costa]

Depending on how they do it trying to calculate the amount of fame players get from a kill could actually cause more lag due to the servers running multiple calculations than what we get now.

If the devs go the simple route in that the higher the title the more fame they give then it would be a pure % base depending on the number of people engaging them at the time of death. So for arguments sake lets say killing a hunter gives 100 fame yet killing an overseer gives 10000 fame. 10 people killing the hunter will get 10 fame each where as those same 10 people killing an overseer will get 1000 fame each.

This would mean though that you get fame for every kill regardless of title and having a higher title will mean giving more fame through death. This could and probably will result in the high titles only going out in full groups and running at the slight chance they could lose

[Peak]

Calculations are already for status when someone is killed.

I highly doubt we'll see lag from very similar calculations for fame.