Coldain Prayer Shawl combine order - a guide

EQ2Magroo · 03-16-2011, 11:23 AM

To assist in this somewhat confusing series of combines, I have put together this flowchart which shows the order of the combines, and the classes and recipe components required.

I have yet to complete the quest, so can't confirm if the fuel numbers are correct (the single fuels look to be bugged to me, they should most likely all be 5) but I will update once I have confirmed.

In theory you can have the combines made for items on the same horizontal layer in any order you like as they should update their respective part of the quest when you take out of shared bank. You must get the complete update for everything on a horizontal layer though before moving down the vertical axis.

i.e. you can make Liquid Velium & Cutlassfish Oil whenever you like ahead of time if you want to. However, do not get them combined into the Sacred Velium Ink until you have gotten the updates for part 5 & 6 in your quest journal.

Hope this helps make it a bit clearer !

Rijacki · 03-16-2011, 11:30 AM

Great flow chart!

Katz · 03-16-2011, 11:55 AM

Thanks, I'm just getting started on this and greatly appreciate you sharing the chart with us.

EQ2Magroo · 03-18-2011, 09:11 AM

I'm even less of a fan of this quest mechanic than I was at the start.

If you have an army of alts, I'm sure it's fine, but for the rest of the players out there it is an exercise in frustration and wasted time.

The server I currently play on is stuck waiting for an armorer to log on so we can get a combine. We have all the other classes standing around doing nothing, we're not even able to help on the other steps until the armorer appears. Every day the chat is full of "Looking for Armorer for HQ combine". We have all other 8 classes available, but none of them can do anything. Assuming an armorer ever shows up and doesn't get /telled to death, then we're all then going to be looking for a Woodworker at the same time, and then a Sage, Tailor, Jeweler...

Yes I know people are going to start with "if you don't like it, make an armorer and spend 2 weeks grinding faction" but that's not the point (I have actually started this now, and have 11 days left)

The PoP quest at least allowed you to work on other sections of the quest if the one class you needed wasn't on. We all know how frustrating that part of the quest was, so why take a much hated gameplay mechanic and then make it even worse ? It doesn't make the quest harder, or more challenging, or anything other than simply more frustrating. Is that the best gameplay we can come up with after months and months of development ?

In my view what I hoped would have happened with this quest was something like this:

1. Have 9 different items crafted for you, one from each TS class. These could be done in any order.

2. Take 3 of those items and have them combined by an Adorner to make an item.

3. Take another 3 of those 9 items and have them combined by a Tinkerer.

4. Take the final 3 items and have them broken down by a Transmuter to obtain 3 special raws.

5. You then take those 2 crafted items and the 3 raws and make the final item in a times/instant death crafting zone event.

Please please please, do think carefully about the impact on the sanity of your players of using these additional artificial roadblocks in any future quests.

Katz · 03-18-2011, 10:26 AM

Just to be clear that I'm interpreting the combines correctly. You could have the carpenter, weaponsmith, alchemist, provisioner, and tailor items made and waiting in your inventory until you find a armorer, woodworker, sage, and jeweler?

Senya · 03-18-2011, 10:46 AM

Katz wrote:

Just to be clear that I'm interpreting the combines correctly. You could have the carpenter, weaponsmith, alchemist, provisioner, and tailor items made and waiting in your inventory until you find a armorer, woodworker, sage, and jeweler?

Yes. But after you have those items waiting in your inventory you'd have to do things in a very specific order so that everything updates correctly:

1. If you had the carpenter piece pre-made you should get an update as soon as you reach this point of the quest. Once your quest dings that update your quest should be asking for the armorer.

2. Have the armorer make their piece. That would update you to the point of needing the burin (weaponsmith) which would update from the item already in inventory. At this point your quest should ask for the woodworker combine.

3. Then you'd need the woodworker of course. That piece should update the quest to the alchemist piece which should auto update from items in inventory, which would then update you to need the provisioner item, which should auto update from items already in inventory. After everything updates from this point your quest should be asking for the ink (sage).

4. Have the sage make the ink. This should update your quest to the thread (tailor), which should auto update from the piece already in inventory.

5. Get the jeweler to do the last combine before you have to take the quest over and stitch the random pieces together on the loom.

Liandra · 03-18-2011, 10:47 AM

Katz wrote:

Just to be clear that I'm interpreting the combines correctly. You could have the carpenter, weaponsmith, alchemist, provisioner, and tailor items made and waiting in your inventory until you find a armorer, woodworker, sage, and jeweler?

That is correct.

Wasuna · 03-18-2011, 11:22 AM

Armor class is tough to be motivated to level. My wife and I had all tradeskill classes maxed at RoK but after that there was just very little use to leveling up the classes that didn't make consumables or spells/CA's.

Provisioner, Alchemists, Carpenters, Sages, Jewelers and Woodworkers definatly have an advantage. Weaponsmith, Armorer and Tailor people just leave behind.

wullailhuit · 03-18-2011, 11:32 AM

We have similar problems on Splitpaw , except it appears to be jewellers that are the rare breed here , I've seen many , myself included looking for a jeweller for days.

EQ2Magroo · 03-18-2011, 11:38 AM

Wullail@Splitpaw wrote:

We have similar problems on Splitpaw , except it appears to be jewellers that are the rare breed here , I've seen many , myself included looking for a jeweller for days.

The good news is as soon as they come online you are finished SMILEY

GussJr · 03-18-2011, 11:46 AM

Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I'm even less of a fan of this quest mechanic than I was at the start.
If you have an army of alts, I'm sure it's fine, but for the rest of the players out there it is an exercise in frustration and wasted time.
The server I currently play on is stuck waiting for an armorer to log on so we can get a combine. We have all the other classes standing around doing nothing, we're not even able to help on the other steps until the armorer appears. Every day the chat is full of "Looking for Armorer for HQ combine". We have all other 8 classes available, but none of them can do anything. Assuming an armorer ever shows up and doesn't get /telled to death, then we're all then going to be looking for a Woodworker at the same time, and then a Sage, Tailor, Jeweler...
Yes I know people are going to start with "if you don't like it, make an armorer and spend 2 weeks grinding faction" but that's not the point (I have actually started this now, and have 11 days left)
The PoP quest at least allowed you to work on other sections of the quest if the one class you needed wasn't on. We all know how frustrating that part of the quest was, so why take a much hated gameplay mechanic and then make it even worse ? It doesn't make the quest harder, or more challenging, or anything other than simply more frustrating. Is that the best gameplay we can come up with after months and months of development ?
In my view what I hoped would have happened with this quest was something like this:
1. Have 9 different items crafted for you, one from each TS class. These could be done in any order.
2. Take 3 of those items and have them combined by an Adorner to make an item.
3. Take another 3 of those 9 items and have them combined by a Tinkerer.
4. Take the final 3 items and have them broken down by a Transmuter to obtain 3 special raws.
5. You then take those 2 crafted items and the 3 raws and make the final item in a times/instant death crafting zone event.
Please please please, do think carefully about the impact on the sanity of your players of using these additional artificial roadblocks in any future quests.

This is exactly why I am pushing for something like this http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=497158 .

I don't mean to derail, but I am a level 90 armorer and just got my master armorer achievement which took over 2 months!...I would LOVE to be able to help all of you guys, but sadly I can't!

If you folks on AB are having this much trouble, I am dreading this quest on Nagefen...

d1anaw · 03-18-2011, 12:10 PM

I have to say, I too, am not a fan of the order requirement. I'm stuck with two of mine because of no armorer. I guess I will have to spend the time leveling mine before I can progress and hubbie dearest doesn't seem to be embracing getthing his faction up to speed.

Kizee · 03-18-2011, 12:13 PM

I am assuming that since the items are heirloom.... I can drag the items to a crafter make it and put the finished item back in the shared bank and it should update as soon as I take it out of bank with toon I need?

I have 3 characters that i am going to run through at the same time (alch, woodworker and armorer) and I would hate to flub something up since some crafters are crazy hard to find. =(

EQ2Magroo · 03-18-2011, 12:34 PM

Shimmer@Befallen wrote:

I am assuming that since the items are heirloom.... I can drag the items to a crafter make it and put the finished item back in the shared bank and it should update as soon as I take it out of bank with toon I need?
I have 3 characters that i am going to run through at the same time (alch, woodworker and armorer) and I would hate to flub something up since some crafters are crazy hard to find. =(

Yes that is fine, but make sure you follow the flowchart and Senya's advice above and don't get ahead of yourself and make a combine using an item that item has updated its part in your quest journal.

tkia · 03-18-2011, 01:14 PM

Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Wullail@Splitpaw wrote:
We have similar problems on Splitpaw , except it appears to be jewellers that are the rare breed here , I've seen many , myself included looking for a jeweller for days.
The good news is as soon as they come online you are finished

Don't count on it. I have 9 level 90 crafters currently working through faction. For the past week almost every time I log one of them on I'm getting tells within 5 minutes asking if I can do shawl updates. It's getting so bad I'm seriously considering setting all my toons to /anon for the first time in 11 years. If everybody does that you'll never be seeing your needed crafters come online.

What I don't understand is why there is so much hassling over this? Back on pudding updates people would just ask in channel and then *wait* for responses. I don't think I got a single tell asking me to do those updates.

GussJr · 03-18-2011, 01:35 PM

tkia wrote:

Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Wullail@Splitpaw wrote:
We have similar problems on Splitpaw , except it appears to be jewellers that are the rare breed here , I've seen many , myself included looking for a jeweller for days.
The good news is as soon as they come online you are finished
Don't count on it. I have 9 level 90 crafters currently working through faction. For the past week almost every time I log one of them on I'm getting tells within 5 minutes asking if I can do shawl updates. It's getting so bad I'm seriously considering setting all my toons to /anon for the first time in 11 years. If everybody does that you'll never be seeing your needed crafters come online.
What I don't understand is why there is so much hassling over this? Back on pudding updates people would just ask in channel and then *wait* for responses. I don't think I got a single tell asking me to do those updates.

Sounds like your just in a areally good position to make some plat...

Nindaene · 03-18-2011, 01:56 PM

Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I'm even less of a fan of this quest mechanic than I was at the start.
If you have an army of alts, I'm sure it's fine, but for the rest of the players out there it is an exercise in frustration and wasted time.
The server I currently play on is stuck waiting for an armorer to log on so we can get a combine. We have all the other classes standing around doing nothing, we're not even able to help on the other steps until the armorer appears. Every day the chat is full of "Looking for Armorer for HQ combine". We have all other 8 classes available, but none of them can do anything. Assuming an armorer ever shows up and doesn't get /telled to death, then we're all then going to be looking for a Woodworker at the same time, and then a Sage, Tailor, Jeweler...
Yes I know people are going to start with "if you don't like it, make an armorer and spend 2 weeks grinding faction" but that's not the point (I have actually started this now, and have 11 days left)
The PoP quest at least allowed you to work on other sections of the quest if the one class you needed wasn't on. We all know how frustrating that part of the quest was, so why take a much hated gameplay mechanic and then make it even worse ? It doesn't make the quest harder, or more challenging, or anything other than simply more frustrating. Is that the best gameplay we can come up with after months and months of development ?
In my view what I hoped would have happened with this quest was something like this:
1. Have 9 different items crafted for you, one from each TS class. These could be done in any order.
2. Take 3 of those items and have them combined by an Adorner to make an item.
3. Take another 3 of those 9 items and have them combined by a Tinkerer.
4. Take the final 3 items and have them broken down by a Transmuter to obtain 3 special raws.
5. You then take those 2 crafted items and the 3 raws and make the final item in a times/instant death crafting zone event.
Please please please, do think carefully about the impact on the sanity of your players of using these additional artificial roadblocks in any future quests.

While I understand your frustration, this quest wasn't meant to be easy - neither in creating the shawl itself or in doing the work to find a crafter to make the items.

On Crushbone, Senya and I worked the faction on all of our toons at the same time and got the discos on the very first day that anyone could get the shawl. Since that time, we've offered a combined service to anyone that needs the shawl and many have taken us up on our offer (for a price of course). I realize that we (and Crushbone) are the exception, not the rule - but we've taken all the work that we've put in and made it easier for others to get theirs.

I've also leveled 2 more toons of my own and am 3 days short of having the faction on those.

Your scenario above would mean that any crafter could have made it completely by themselves, with a lot less work than it took to level 9 crafters and grind the faction on all of them. I expect that people would have grinding out Tinkering and Adorning instead of bothering with any other classes/faction.

And yes... having to search out crafters to make the pieces you can't does make it harder to complete. You want to talk frustrating? Try having to re-do the steps because you didn't update it as you went or because you tried to sew the rune onto the shawl and failed. Failure results in having to find the crafters all over again. Now THAT is frustrating.

At least the items are Heirloom - there was a time that you couldn't even do PoP without others, even if you DID have alts of your own that could make them.

EQ2Magroo · 03-18-2011, 02:18 PM

Nindaene wrote:

While I understand your frustration, this quest wasn't meant to be easy - neither in creating the shawl itself or in doing the work to find a crafter to make the items.
On Crushbone, Senya and I worked the faction on all of our toons at the same time and got the discos on the very first day that anyone could get the shawl. Since that time, we've offered a combined service to anyone that needs the shawl and many have taken us up on our offer (for a price of course). I realize that we (and Crushbone) are the exception, not the rule - but we've taken all the work that we've put in and made it easier for others to get theirs.
I've also leveled 2 more toons of my own and am 3 days short of having the faction on those.
Your scenario above would mean that any crafter could have made it completely by themselves, with a lot less work than it took to level 9 crafters and grind the faction on all of them. I expect that people would have grinding out Tinkering and Adorning instead of bothering with any other classes/faction.
And yes... having to search out crafters to make the pieces you can't does make it harder to complete. You want to talk frustrating? Try having to re-do the steps because you didn't update it as you went or because you tried to sew the rune onto the shawl and failed. Failure results in having to find the crafters all over again. Now THAT is frustrating.
At least the items are Heirloom - there was a time that you couldn't even do PoP without others, even if you DID have alts of your own that could make them.

I think you also misread my alternative solution. I did not suggest that a player could make it all themselves, but rather than any of the initial 9 steps could be done at any time (you would need other players to craft the item for you still). Then if you had the 3 items made that were needed by the tinkerer, you could go get that made even if still waiting for one of the other initial parts. That way you could steadily progress through the quest without standing around doing nothing for days on end. You may not get the quest completed any quicker, but it would "feel" more enjoyable which is afterall why we are all here.

Making me wait around for days on end on the off chance that an armorer with faction logs on at the precise moment I am on that part of the quest isn't hard. It's frustrating and poor design. I feel sorry for those who only log on for a few hours at a time, they are going to have a nightmare time catching that one class at the time when they are not doing anything else. Sure, after 6 months it will probably be easier to find all the classes, but you will still be faces with the problem of having to get just the right class at just the right time. If you can't find an armorer, you can't even progress on any of the subsequent stages that you could actually complete even though there are plenty of woodworkers, sages etc. all online just wanting to help you.*

(*My gut feel is that this quest was supposed to work like PoP, but the quest update trees weren't coded correctly and then it was too late to go back and get it changed. That's just gut feel, but based on past expansions this quest just feels wrongly coded to me)

However, if it is correct and after the months and months of delay we had for this expansion, with all the extra time they had to get it right, the best way that SoE can come up with to make a quest "hard" and "challenging" and worthy of the title "Heritage Quest", is to put this sort of roadblock in, well it makes me feel sad for what could have been...

At the end of the day the purpose of the quests should be to be fun, challenging and rewarding. If they also happen to take a long time this is OK, but simply taking a long time is not the primary goal of a quest and should not be done at the expense of all the other goals.

EQ2Magroo · 03-23-2011, 07:49 PM

Well I finally got to finish this quest tonight, after waiting 2 days for a Jeweler to become available. This was of course the same Jeweler who had been on for the past week, but no use because the combines have to be done in an enforced order.

This is without doubt one of the most poorly implemented Heritage quests I have ever done and was a very poor tradeskill quest compared to, for example, the PoP quest. In fact I would even go as far to say that the harvest cloak quest was a better quest that this

There was no skill, no challenge, no risk, no community building, and no sense of accomplishment when I reached the end. The only "hard" part was the pointless waiting around for a week hoping I happened to be logged on at the same time as the right class. That's lazy RNG mechanics of the very worst kind.

The final series of crafting 5 orbs wasn't at all difficult, and indeed the sequence has a great big design flaw in it which means everyone can complete the quest before even 10 seconds has elapsed on the timer. I don't know who beta tested this quest, but I can't believe nobody has found/reported that bug.

Sorry to sound so down about this quest as I know Domino puts a lot of effort into the tradeskill area, but I for one was very disappointed in how it all turned out in the end.

Alienor · 03-24-2011, 04:21 AM

Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:

The only "hard" part was the pointless waiting around for a week hoping I happened to be logged on at the same time as the right class.

Isn't that what is all about DoV, waiting for this, waiting for that, waiting till the quest comes available? I am waiting 4 days now for the Tupta clay quest and I think I missed it because I had actually to work yesterday. I am waiting for the daily quest, I am waiting for Capru, I am waiting for the mount quest.... I just log on for 30mins in the morning and that's it. From an economic perspective that looks good at first glance, but it is as you mentioned poorly implemented, probably due to the manpower they have at their hands.

Senya · 03-24-2011, 04:29 AM

Alienor wrote:

I am waiting 4 days now for the Tupta clay quest

You can get the clay on any day that the daily is not the one to just click on the houses. As long as the daily is to make something you can see and pick up the clay.

QuestingCrafter · 03-24-2011, 11:39 AM

I've completed the Shawl on five of my ten level 90 crafters -- and the other five probably today. =D

* Clay: If you take the Tupta daily, and scribe the recipe book, you should see the clay just fine. It's handy for lowbie adventuring crafters, to use your crafter flying mount to get to the cliff's edge.

* Crystal combines: In total, I've died six times to server lag ... and twice to my own inattentiveness (hitting the wrong reaction). Overall toughness is moderate, but certainly do-able -- even dying three times on one toon, I had time to complete five crystals in the time alloted. I should mention that I waited until the end to click the table five times (not clicking after each success).

* If anyone wanted to know, you can do it all with one account; you just have to move each piece in-and-out of inventory at its time. That is WS, Alch, Prov, and Tailor can be in-inventory whenever -- but don't try to short-cut by making 9 Carpenter products, then loading your Armorer to turn those into the next piece (nine times), because the armorer result won't update your other toons still at the Carpenter step.

Alienor · 03-24-2011, 12:36 PM

Senya wrote:

Alienor wrote:
I am waiting 4 days now for the Tupta clay quest
You can get the clay on any day that the daily is not the one to just click on the houses. As long as the daily is to make something you can see and pick up the clay.

Never checked this SMILEY Thanks a lot! /hugs

03-16-2011, 11:30 AM	#2
Rijacki Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,842	Great flow chart! __________________

03-18-2011, 10:46 AM	#6
Senya Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Ironforge Exchange Posts: 1,754	Katz wrote: Just to be clear that I'm interpreting the combines correctly. You could have the carpenter, weaponsmith, alchemist, provisioner, and tailor items made and waiting in your inventory until you find a armorer, woodworker, sage, and jeweler? Yes. But after you have those items waiting in your inventory you'd have to do things in a very specific order so that everything updates correctly: 1. If you had the carpenter piece pre-made you should get an update as soon as you reach this point of the quest. Once your quest dings that update your quest should be asking for the armorer. 2. Have the armorer make their piece. That would update you to the point of needing the burin (weaponsmith) which would update from the item already in inventory. At this point your quest should ask for the woodworker combine. 3. Then you'd need the woodworker of course. That piece should update the quest to the alchemist piece which should auto update from items in inventory, which would then update you to need the provisioner item, which should auto update from items already in inventory. After everything updates from this point your quest should be asking for the ink (sage). 4. Have the sage make the ink. This should update your quest to the thread (tailor), which should auto update from the piece already in inventory. 5. Get the jeweler to do the last combine before you have to take the quest over and stitch the random pieces together on the loom. __________________ Click image for a list of my completed projects.

03-18-2011, 10:47 AM	#7
Liandra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Splitpaw Posts: 281	Katz wrote: Just to be clear that I'm interpreting the combines correctly. You could have the carpenter, weaponsmith, alchemist, provisioner, and tailor items made and waiting in your inventory until you find a armorer, woodworker, sage, and jeweler? That is correct. __________________ ____________________________________________ Liandra on Splitpaw Server Lvl 92 Conjuror / Lvl 92 Jeweler Lvl 92 Alchemist / Armorer / Carpenter / Tailor / Provisioner

03-18-2011, 11:22 AM	#8
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	Armor class is tough to be motivated to level. My wife and I had all tradeskill classes maxed at RoK but after that there was just very little use to leveling up the classes that didn't make consumables or spells/CA's. Provisioner, Alchemists, Carpenters, Sages, Jewelers and Woodworkers definatly have an advantage. Weaponsmith, Armorer and Tailor people just leave behind. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

03-18-2011, 11:32 AM	#9
wullailhuit Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,007	We have similar problems on Splitpaw , except it appears to be jewellers that are the rare breed here , I've seen many , myself included looking for a jeweller for days. __________________

03-16-2011, 11:23 AM	#1
EQ2Magroo Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 756	To assist in this somewhat confusing series of combines, I have put together this flowchart which shows the order of the combines, and the classes and recipe components required. I have yet to complete the quest, so can't confirm if the fuel numbers are correct (the single fuels look to be bugged to me, they should most likely all be 5) but I will update once I have confirmed. In theory you can have the combines made for items on the same horizontal layer in any order you like as they should update their respective part of the quest when you take out of shared bank. You must get the complete update for everything on a horizontal layer though before moving down the vertical axis. i.e. you can make Liquid Velium & Cutlassfish Oil whenever you like ahead of time if you want to. However, do not get them combined into the Sacred Velium Ink until you have gotten the updates for part 5 & 6 in your quest journal. Hope this helps make it a bit clearer !

03-16-2011, 11:55 AM	#3
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	Thanks, I'm just getting started on this and greatly appreciate you sharing the chart with us.

03-18-2011, 09:11 AM	#4
EQ2Magroo Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 756	I'm even less of a fan of this quest mechanic than I was at the start. If you have an army of alts, I'm sure it's fine, but for the rest of the players out there it is an exercise in frustration and wasted time. The server I currently play on is stuck waiting for an armorer to log on so we can get a combine. We have all the other classes standing around doing nothing, we're not even able to help on the other steps until the armorer appears. Every day the chat is full of "Looking for Armorer for HQ combine". We have all other 8 classes available, but none of them can do anything. Assuming an armorer ever shows up and doesn't get /telled to death, then we're all then going to be looking for a Woodworker at the same time, and then a Sage, Tailor, Jeweler... Yes I know people are going to start with "if you don't like it, make an armorer and spend 2 weeks grinding faction" but that's not the point (I have actually started this now, and have 11 days left) The PoP quest at least allowed you to work on other sections of the quest if the one class you needed wasn't on. We all know how frustrating that part of the quest was, so why take a much hated gameplay mechanic and then make it even worse ? It doesn't make the quest harder, or more challenging, or anything other than simply more frustrating. Is that the best gameplay we can come up with after months and months of development ? In my view what I hoped would have happened with this quest was something like this: 1. Have 9 different items crafted for you, one from each TS class. These could be done in any order. 2. Take 3 of those items and have them combined by an Adorner to make an item. 3. Take another 3 of those 9 items and have them combined by a Tinkerer. 4. Take the final 3 items and have them broken down by a Transmuter to obtain 3 special raws. 5. You then take those 2 crafted items and the 3 raws and make the final item in a times/instant death crafting zone event. Please please please, do think carefully about the impact on the sanity of your players of using these additional artificial roadblocks in any future quests.

03-18-2011, 10:26 AM	#5
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	Just to be clear that I'm interpreting the combines correctly. You could have the carpenter, weaponsmith, alchemist, provisioner, and tailor items made and waiting in your inventory until you find a armorer, woodworker, sage, and jeweler?

03-18-2011, 11:38 AM	#10
EQ2Magroo Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 756	Wullail@Splitpaw wrote: We have similar problems on Splitpaw , except it appears to be jewellers that are the rare breed here , I've seen many , myself included looking for a jeweller for days. The good news is as soon as they come online you are finished

03-18-2011, 11:46 AM	#11
GussJr Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,061	Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote: I'm even less of a fan of this quest mechanic than I was at the start. If you have an army of alts, I'm sure it's fine, but for the rest of the players out there it is an exercise in frustration and wasted time. The server I currently play on is stuck waiting for an armorer to log on so we can get a combine. We have all the other classes standing around doing nothing, we're not even able to help on the other steps until the armorer appears. Every day the chat is full of "Looking for Armorer for HQ combine". We have all other 8 classes available, but none of them can do anything. Assuming an armorer ever shows up and doesn't get /telled to death, then we're all then going to be looking for a Woodworker at the same time, and then a Sage, Tailor, Jeweler... Yes I know people are going to start with "if you don't like it, make an armorer and spend 2 weeks grinding faction" but that's not the point (I have actually started this now, and have 11 days left) The PoP quest at least allowed you to work on other sections of the quest if the one class you needed wasn't on. We all know how frustrating that part of the quest was, so why take a much hated gameplay mechanic and then make it even worse ? It doesn't make the quest harder, or more challenging, or anything other than simply more frustrating. Is that the best gameplay we can come up with after months and months of development ? In my view what I hoped would have happened with this quest was something like this: 1. Have 9 different items crafted for you, one from each TS class. These could be done in any order. 2. Take 3 of those items and have them combined by an Adorner to make an item. 3. Take another 3 of those 9 items and have them combined by a Tinkerer. 4. Take the final 3 items and have them broken down by a Transmuter to obtain 3 special raws. 5. You then take those 2 crafted items and the 3 raws and make the final item in a times/instant death crafting zone event. Please please please, do think carefully about the impact on the sanity of your players of using these additional artificial roadblocks in any future quests. This is exactly why I am pushing for something like this http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=497158 . I don't mean to derail, but I am a level 90 armorer and just got my master armorer achievement which took over 2 months!...I would LOVE to be able to help all of you guys, but sadly I can't! If you folks on AB are having this much trouble, I am dreading this quest on Nagefen... __________________ Collametta, 91 HE Ranger, 90 Mstr Armorer Siame, 90 K. Zerk, 90 Alchemist Palayna, 34 Fae Monk, 90 Master Carpenter Beastmastress, 90 WE BL, 31 Prov

03-18-2011, 12:10 PM	#12
d1anaw Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,139	I have to say, I too, am not a fan of the order requirement. I'm stuck with two of mine because of no armorer. I guess I will have to spend the time leveling mine before I can progress and hubbie dearest doesn't seem to be embracing getthing his faction up to speed.

03-18-2011, 12:13 PM	#13
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	I am assuming that since the items are heirloom.... I can drag the items to a crafter make it and put the finished item back in the shared bank and it should update as soon as I take it out of bank with toon I need? I have 3 characters that i am going to run through at the same time (alch, woodworker and armorer) and I would hate to flub something up since some crafters are crazy hard to find. =(

03-18-2011, 12:34 PM	#14
EQ2Magroo Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 756	Shimmer@Befallen wrote: I am assuming that since the items are heirloom.... I can drag the items to a crafter make it and put the finished item back in the shared bank and it should update as soon as I take it out of bank with toon I need? I have 3 characters that i am going to run through at the same time (alch, woodworker and armorer) and I would hate to flub something up since some crafters are crazy hard to find. =( Yes that is fine, but make sure you follow the flowchart and Senya's advice above and don't get ahead of yourself and make a combine using an item that item has updated its part in your quest journal.

03-18-2011, 01:14 PM	#15
tkia Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 577	Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote: Wullail@Splitpaw wrote: We have similar problems on Splitpaw , except it appears to be jewellers that are the rare breed here , I've seen many , myself included looking for a jeweller for days. The good news is as soon as they come online you are finished Don't count on it. I have 9 level 90 crafters currently working through faction. For the past week almost every time I log one of them on I'm getting tells within 5 minutes asking if I can do shawl updates. It's getting so bad I'm seriously considering setting all my toons to /anon for the first time in 11 years. If everybody does that you'll never be seeing your needed crafters come online. What I don't understand is why there is so much hassling over this? Back on pudding updates people would just ask in channel and then wait for responses. I don't think I got a single tell asking me to do those updates.

03-18-2011, 01:35 PM	#16
GussJr Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,061	tkia wrote: Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote: Wullail@Splitpaw wrote: We have similar problems on Splitpaw , except it appears to be jewellers that are the rare breed here , I've seen many , myself included looking for a jeweller for days. The good news is as soon as they come online you are finished Don't count on it. I have 9 level 90 crafters currently working through faction. For the past week almost every time I log one of them on I'm getting tells within 5 minutes asking if I can do shawl updates. It's getting so bad I'm seriously considering setting all my toons to /anon for the first time in 11 years. If everybody does that you'll never be seeing your needed crafters come online. What I don't understand is why there is so much hassling over this? Back on pudding updates people would just ask in channel and then wait for responses. I don't think I got a single tell asking me to do those updates. Sounds like your just in a areally good position to make some plat... __________________ Collametta, 91 HE Ranger, 90 Mstr Armorer Siame, 90 K. Zerk, 90 Alchemist Palayna, 34 Fae Monk, 90 Master Carpenter Beastmastress, 90 WE BL, 31 Prov

03-18-2011, 01:56 PM	#17
Nindaene Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 282	Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote: I'm even less of a fan of this quest mechanic than I was at the start. If you have an army of alts, I'm sure it's fine, but for the rest of the players out there it is an exercise in frustration and wasted time. The server I currently play on is stuck waiting for an armorer to log on so we can get a combine. We have all the other classes standing around doing nothing, we're not even able to help on the other steps until the armorer appears. Every day the chat is full of "Looking for Armorer for HQ combine". We have all other 8 classes available, but none of them can do anything. Assuming an armorer ever shows up and doesn't get /telled to death, then we're all then going to be looking for a Woodworker at the same time, and then a Sage, Tailor, Jeweler... Yes I know people are going to start with "if you don't like it, make an armorer and spend 2 weeks grinding faction" but that's not the point (I have actually started this now, and have 11 days left) The PoP quest at least allowed you to work on other sections of the quest if the one class you needed wasn't on. We all know how frustrating that part of the quest was, so why take a much hated gameplay mechanic and then make it even worse ? It doesn't make the quest harder, or more challenging, or anything other than simply more frustrating. Is that the best gameplay we can come up with after months and months of development ? In my view what I hoped would have happened with this quest was something like this: 1. Have 9 different items crafted for you, one from each TS class. These could be done in any order. 2. Take 3 of those items and have them combined by an Adorner to make an item. 3. Take another 3 of those 9 items and have them combined by a Tinkerer. 4. Take the final 3 items and have them broken down by a Transmuter to obtain 3 special raws. 5. You then take those 2 crafted items and the 3 raws and make the final item in a times/instant death crafting zone event. Please please please, do think carefully about the impact on the sanity of your players of using these additional artificial roadblocks in any future quests. While I understand your frustration, this quest wasn't meant to be easy - neither in creating the shawl itself or in doing the work to find a crafter to make the items. On Crushbone, Senya and I worked the faction on all of our toons at the same time and got the discos on the very first day that anyone could get the shawl. Since that time, we've offered a combined service to anyone that needs the shawl and many have taken us up on our offer (for a price of course). I realize that we (and Crushbone) are the exception, not the rule - but we've taken all the work that we've put in and made it easier for others to get theirs. I've also leveled 2 more toons of my own and am 3 days short of having the faction on those. Your scenario above would mean that any crafter could have made it completely by themselves, with a lot less work than it took to level 9 crafters and grind the faction on all of them. I expect that people would have grinding out Tinkering and Adorning instead of bothering with any other classes/faction. And yes... having to search out crafters to make the pieces you can't does make it harder to complete. You want to talk frustrating? Try having to re-do the steps because you didn't update it as you went or because you tried to sew the rune onto the shawl and failed. Failure results in having to find the crafters all over again. Now THAT is frustrating. At least the items are Heirloom - there was a time that you couldn't even do PoP without others, even if you DID have alts of your own that could make them.

03-18-2011, 02:18 PM	#18
EQ2Magroo Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 756	Nindaene wrote: While I understand your frustration, this quest wasn't meant to be easy - neither in creating the shawl itself or in doing the work to find a crafter to make the items. On Crushbone, Senya and I worked the faction on all of our toons at the same time and got the discos on the very first day that anyone could get the shawl. Since that time, we've offered a combined service to anyone that needs the shawl and many have taken us up on our offer (for a price of course). I realize that we (and Crushbone) are the exception, not the rule - but we've taken all the work that we've put in and made it easier for others to get theirs. I've also leveled 2 more toons of my own and am 3 days short of having the faction on those. Your scenario above would mean that any crafter could have made it completely by themselves, with a lot less work than it took to level 9 crafters and grind the faction on all of them. I expect that people would have grinding out Tinkering and Adorning instead of bothering with any other classes/faction. And yes... having to search out crafters to make the pieces you can't does make it harder to complete. You want to talk frustrating? Try having to re-do the steps because you didn't update it as you went or because you tried to sew the rune onto the shawl and failed. Failure results in having to find the crafters all over again. Now THAT is frustrating. At least the items are Heirloom - there was a time that you couldn't even do PoP without others, even if you DID have alts of your own that could make them. I think you also misread my alternative solution. I did not suggest that a player could make it all themselves, but rather than any of the initial 9 steps could be done at any time (you would need other players to craft the item for you still). Then if you had the 3 items made that were needed by the tinkerer, you could go get that made even if still waiting for one of the other initial parts. That way you could steadily progress through the quest without standing around doing nothing for days on end. You may not get the quest completed any quicker, but it would "feel" more enjoyable which is afterall why we are all here. Making me wait around for days on end on the off chance that an armorer with faction logs on at the precise moment I am on that part of the quest isn't hard. It's frustrating and poor design. I feel sorry for those who only log on for a few hours at a time, they are going to have a nightmare time catching that one class at the time when they are not doing anything else. Sure, after 6 months it will probably be easier to find all the classes, but you will still be faces with the problem of having to get just the right class at just the right time. If you can't find an armorer, you can't even progress on any of the subsequent stages that you could actually complete even though there are plenty of woodworkers, sages etc. all online just wanting to help you.* (*My gut feel is that this quest was supposed to work like PoP, but the quest update trees weren't coded correctly and then it was too late to go back and get it changed. That's just gut feel, but based on past expansions this quest just feels wrongly coded to me) However, if it is correct and after the months and months of delay we had for this expansion, with all the extra time they had to get it right, the best way that SoE can come up with to make a quest "hard" and "challenging" and worthy of the title "Heritage Quest", is to put this sort of roadblock in, well it makes me feel sad for what could have been... At the end of the day the purpose of the quests should be to be fun, challenging and rewarding. If they also happen to take a long time this is OK, but simply taking a long time is not the primary goal of a quest and should not be done at the expense of all the other goals.

03-23-2011, 07:49 PM	#19
EQ2Magroo Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 756	Well I finally got to finish this quest tonight, after waiting 2 days for a Jeweler to become available. This was of course the same Jeweler who had been on for the past week, but no use because the combines have to be done in an enforced order. This is without doubt one of the most poorly implemented Heritage quests I have ever done and was a very poor tradeskill quest compared to, for example, the PoP quest. In fact I would even go as far to say that the harvest cloak quest was a better quest that this There was no skill, no challenge, no risk, no community building, and no sense of accomplishment when I reached the end. The only "hard" part was the pointless waiting around for a week hoping I happened to be logged on at the same time as the right class. That's lazy RNG mechanics of the very worst kind. The final series of crafting 5 orbs wasn't at all difficult, and indeed the sequence has a great big design flaw in it which means everyone can complete the quest before even 10 seconds has elapsed on the timer. I don't know who beta tested this quest, but I can't believe nobody has found/reported that bug. Sorry to sound so down about this quest as I know Domino puts a lot of effort into the tradeskill area, but I for one was very disappointed in how it all turned out in the end.

03-24-2011, 04:21 AM	#20
Alienor Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,393	Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote: The only "hard" part was the pointless waiting around for a week hoping I happened to be logged on at the same time as the right class. Isn't that what is all about DoV, waiting for this, waiting for that, waiting till the quest comes available? I am waiting 4 days now for the Tupta clay quest and I think I missed it because I had actually to work yesterday. I am waiting for the daily quest, I am waiting for Capru, I am waiting for the mount quest.... I just log on for 30mins in the morning and that's it. From an economic perspective that looks good at first glance, but it is as you mentioned poorly implemented, probably due to the manpower they have at their hands.

03-24-2011, 04:29 AM	#21
Senya Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Ironforge Exchange Posts: 1,754	Alienor wrote: I am waiting 4 days now for the Tupta clay quest You can get the clay on any day that the daily is not the one to just click on the houses. As long as the daily is to make something you can see and pick up the clay. __________________ Click image for a list of my completed projects.

03-24-2011, 11:39 AM	#22
QuestingCrafter Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 517	I've completed the Shawl on five of my ten level 90 crafters -- and the other five probably today. =D * Clay: If you take the Tupta daily, and scribe the recipe book, you should see the clay just fine. It's handy for lowbie adventuring crafters, to use your crafter flying mount to get to the cliff's edge. * Crystal combines: In total, I've died six times to server lag ... and twice to my own inattentiveness (hitting the wrong reaction). Overall toughness is moderate, but certainly do-able -- even dying three times on one toon, I had time to complete five crystals in the time alloted. I should mention that I waited until the end to click the table five times (not clicking after each success). * If anyone wanted to know, you can do it all with one account; you just have to move each piece in-and-out of inventory at its time. That is WS, Alch, Prov, and Tailor can be in-inventory whenever -- but don't try to short-cut by making 9 Carpenter products, then loading your Armorer to turn those into the next piece (nine times), because the armorer result won't update your other toons still at the Carpenter step.

03-24-2011, 12:36 PM	#23
Alienor Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,393	Senya wrote: Alienor wrote: I am waiting 4 days now for the Tupta clay quest You can get the clay on any day that the daily is not the one to just click on the houses. As long as the daily is to make something you can see and pick up the clay. Never checked this Thanks a lot! /hugs