PvP Issues Thread

[Bryony]

Kiara saved this for PvP issues that we can keep updated as changes are made. Please refrain from bickering and player related issues, it will be deleted. Please post all current PvP issues, mechanics, math, etc. Give solid examples with valid numbers to back them up - or explain your feedback in a way that makes it helpful to those working on PvP for us. Please feel free to respond with any current feedback/issues for PvP and PvP servers. ----- Lots of changes coming. Wiping the slate for issues pending these updates and beyond them. Please post what you encounter and what still needs tweaking moving forward.

[Vlahkmaak]

Lag is much improved since the hardware change.

Keep the writ system - tokens favored burst dps scouts and token leechers.  Faction based I'd be fine with EXCEPT grey leechers could abuse this the same as the writ system.

Allow rally banners to be killed.  Just Make them = to an x4 training dummy.  Allow guilds to purchase a Rally flag guardian with a damage shield similiar to the ones in WF.  This upgrade could be one of the costlier to upgrade.  Maybe make it maintained through PVP faction only.

Passive taunts, at least on guardians, need to stay as it is our grp forte.  We do not heal like every other tank can self heal in pvp.  Even post fighter heal nerf the other tanks retain a significant 1:1 solo advantage over us.  Our stone skins are situational at best and 1:1 amongst the plate tanks, equally geared and skilled, we are at the underdog in any fihgt.   In a grp though we shine pretty well due to our passive taunting provided through hold the Line, Moderate, and Grp moderate.  . 

[Guld_Ulrish]

Bryony@Nagafen wrote:

Kiara and I discussed putting up a thread for current PvP issues that we, and you guys, can keep it updated as changes are made. Please post any feedback and issues and I will update this main post with them.

Please refrain from personal name calling and bickering, it will be deleted. This isn't the place for it. Keep it to current PvP issues, mechanics, math, etc. Give solid examples with valid numbers to back them up - or explain your feedback in a way that makes it helpful to those working on PvP for us in trying to understand our issues.

Please feel free to respond with any issues we have missed, additions/changes and/or feedback. Thanks!!

PvP Issues:*Reinstate fame loss/title loss in pvp.*Remove fame decay from the game.*Give us the option not to show titles until they are fixed. (And, then keep the option once fixed.)*Remove writ system, return to token drops from pvp, or possibly change to faction based gear.*As it stands, increase the time between writ refresh, it is now way too short.*More time in between warfields to promote open pvp in between, tier them out, or remove them altogether.*Restore avatars, or add worthwhile content, to inspire contested pvp.*Rally banners removed or adjusted on PvP servers to where they can be killed or taken down by opposition.Battle Grounds Issues:*Need more maps for each scenerio.*Need more options for types of bg: raid, x2, group v group, and 1v1 duel, deathmatch or battle style options.*Need lobby with the ability to form groups and chat with players from other servers.Gear / Class related issues:*Passive taunt in pvp needs adjustment. Taunts should be active in pvp. Passive too powerful.*Ward gear needs adjustment especially at lower levels.*Assassin shadowstep/assassinate needs adjustment, one shot any class nearly with full pvp gear / possibly just an adjustment to Predator's final trick in PvP.Server specific issues affecting PvP:

*Is lag better, worse, or the same after hardware upgrades?

+1

[Taktoo]

I think WFs should be added somewhere in there, There needs to be more warfields. Maybe even a seperate warfield for every tier, or just multiple zones for warfields to make it more active/interesting.

[Eboncross]

x

[Toxicz]

To the poster above, vitality breach doesn't do [Removed for Content], I have no clue why you would think otherwise. Fettering is broke, it needs to be fixed tbh.

Fighters are also in check now, they can't heal as much as a healer can anymore, which is fine. The only fighter who really got shafted was pally...

Remove toughness or tweak it. The imbalance of DPS vs heals/damage taken is completely broken atm

Only thing about assassins and rangers that needs to be looked at is predators final trick. Either REMOVE the 40% crit bonus mod in pvp, or reduce it to 20%, keep the "no longer needing to stealth" component on it tho. Having 40% CB on a temp is completely outrageous for pvp.

[We_want_your_soul]

PvP Issues:Reinstate fame loss/title loss in pvp.Remove fame decay from the game.I semi agree with this. I personally like fame decay, not the current system obviously, but something to promote a continuous desire to keep a title should remain in game. As it stands with the inability to lose fame directly in a fight, it makes little sense that titles decay. Adding the ability to lose a flat rate of fame from player vs player death + a reasonable decay system would make the titles both meaningful and never a representation of what someone did months and month ago as was the case many times when people would hit Dreadnaught and higher. At the end of the day titles hold little bearing to the name behind the title, but I understand and love the competition involved with the old fame system.Give us the option not to show titles until they are fixed.Give us this option regardless. I personally would like to "hide" my title just to create an illusion of being "weaker" so that I get people to engage more often. Obviously reputation supercedes any title, due to the fact that they are exploitable in any situation, but the average person is more likely to engage a "Apsavage" than a Ultralord Apsavage.Remove writ system, return to token drops from pvp.As it stands, increase the time between writ refresh, it is now way too short.Neither please. I'd rather go back to a faction based system like the original KoS PvP gear. Spend faction to buy gear, pvp for more faction.  More time in between warfields to promote open pvp in between.I know it probably won't happen at this point, but I really wish they'd scrap warfields completely or tier them out. At 90 it isn't so much of an issue, but I haven't touched Warfields for the most part due to the fact that I play t6 toons as of late and nothing pisses me off more than finally finding someone to fight and being swarmed by greys. That stuff really needs to go. Level ranges need to work both ways, and before people cry about stuff like "oh well i solo some red con blah blah blah" they generally are NOT in open pvp zones with unlimited range and have the severely underated advantage of being able to engage at any time with no negative repercussions. I'm sick and tired of engaging someone to get hit by (seemingly) unresistable lowbie spells. In general I am WAAAY over +c/s/p or +disruption etc and I get less resists on red cons than I do people in my level range. This is more of a mechanics issue but an easy fix would be enforcing level ranges to zones. If you want to attack reds, more power to you. Do it in a zone where they can rip your face off the instance they see you instead of the garbage that is currently happening anytime you find a meaningful fight with a swarm of greys waiting.The simple fact of it is, greys are not a challenge one vs one. They're not even really a challenge 6vs1 (unless of course you're 1-2 levels above orange con). They're an outright nuisance when you're fighting someone else and you get the brigade of SKs, Rogues/whatever come in with Insidious Whispers, Soulrends, Cheapshot, Tswipe etc. There isn't much you can do unless you're a broken tank or healer who lives no matter what. If greys want to fight reds, they need to go to Stonebrunt or Sundered Frontier and they can have their fill all day.I enjoy playing my many toons for different reasons, and if I can not join a 30-39 Battleground with a level 58 then there is no reason they should ever be able to attack me unless I'm in a zone that says Unlimited PvP range. All the current system does is promote leaching. Sorry for the rage, but I've been angry about this for an extremely long time.  Restore avatars, or add worthwhile content, to inspire contested pvp.Rally banners removed or adjusted on PvP to where they can be killed or taken down by opposition.agree on both accounts, but not avatars please. i'd like more of a t5 contested system. 7 day respawns, many many mobs in many different zones with independant timers of each other. The t5 contesteds range from x2-x4 where some of the x2s drop really good gear but that is how it should be. x4 doesn't mean end all be all, and it allows for people who would never be able to get into x4 raids a chance meaning more competition and more pvp. I'm not saying make all the x2s the best gear but mix and match stuff where some of the x2s would be blisteringly hard anyways. Since you can't do an x2 with more than 12 people there is no real issue. Obviously making the gear sellable or at least tradeable through guild banks would make sense. Could do DKP/Leader assigned and kill the mob with whoever you want and it still benefits the people who do/can field x4+r />Battle Grounds Issues:px;" />Need more maps for each scenerio.Need more options for types of bg: raid, x2, group v group, and 1v1 duel, deathmatch or battle style options.Need lobby with the ability to form groups and chat with players from other servers.Gear / Class related issues:Passive taunt in pvp needs adjustment. Taunts should be active in pvp. Passive too powerful.Passive taunt abilities have always baffled me, such as Hold the Line etc. It's the only one that I feel is truly broken, but given the fact that it's on Guardians I don't really care. I don't know about all these passives you're talking about but certain ones are inline and just fine. Hold the Line is 50% at it's base, a spell line starting at level 3 iirc, and is the only one I feel should be truly toned down to somewhere around 25%. Zerker passive is 25% and should be around 5%. Shadowknights have 0 passive taunting abilities. Paladins have Amends, which is a 5% single target hate swap chance, Sigil of Heroism which is 15ish or maybe a little more groupwide ability that on incoming damage has a 75% change to force target to change to the paladin. On a 2+ minute recast I feel that as an Ancient Spell it is both class defining and not over the top. Bruisers and Monks both have 0 passive hate abilities for pvp.The problem is all the active taunting that can happen, so I'm not sure what you mean by Passive or if you're just tired of the stupid amounts of active taunting that get tacked onto doing just about anything from damage to healing etc. Stuff like Seething Hatred took Shadowknights from being completely screwed at real pvp agro to being godmode. Add Cavalier's Shout at a 2.4 chance to proc groupwide taunt, Grave Sacrament, Insidious Whisper being a Taunt over time on an extremely short recast and you have the current problems.All of that stuff can happen from hitting Tap Veins, which besides all the taunting will generally heal an SK up to 100% of their HP bar. Given the ridiculous survivability of tanks at this point, I can understand how the taunting just seems overwhelming, but it isn't the real problem. If tanks could actually die like they used to it wouldn't matter if they taunted like fools because you could burst the idiotic tanks who will blow 10 minutes worth of cool downs in 5 seconds. I'm sure Ailen can remember when Zerkers who hit Gibe in the middle of Raid pvp were asking for death. (just an example that I can relate to =P ).Some of the passives are stupid, like Peaceful Link. or Group Moderate but eh, guardians have always had pretty easymode pvp agro and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is a liar. the only thing that really balances out guardians at this point, where as in the past they were the end all be all of tanking, is that most all other tanks have way better abilities to stand up to groups or even raids of people at a time. The 5-10 stoneskin triggers that guardians can pop out are nothing compared to Furor, Tap Veins, Adrenaline Flow etc etc. They're inline to me due to the fact that a 10 damage spell or a million damage takes one of those triggers away. They're usually gone in 2 seconds of group vs group pvp as opposed to the 30+ seconds I can completely negate damage on my SK.Ward gear needs adjustment especially at lower levels.agreed, at higher levels as well. i'm not even well geared on my SK but I can hit over 2-3k of warding through different procs PLUS all of the heals I get naturally. Completely stupid. Regenerating wards are another level of stupid that I don't even want to get into, but honestly the 200 point ward from discord jewelry usually equates to about +50 heals for every 5 second (at level 30+). It seems broken when attatched to healers/tanks/sorcerors but other than that it's honestly not that big of a deal and I would never [Removed for Content] my toon by actually wearing a 5 set of that stuff. It's just not that good but I see people wearing it all the time. Sheep!Assassin shadowstep/assassinate needs adjustment, one shot any class nearly with full pvp gear.Predators Final Trick is the problem, not assassinate itself.My own addition here is Toughness is good in moderation, crit mit is good is moderation. When you're negating 50+% of ANYONES damage outright + all the natural forms of mitigation and damage reduction, it creates massive problems and snooze fests. People cried so hard about fights being to short etc in the past, but atm I'd rather grind grey mobs than fight someone with full toughness gear.Server specific issues affecting PvP:Lagafen.

This is just a copy paste to your original post. It was made before Crit heal changes for tanks.

[Xal]

A few quick thoughts:

+ Make it a rule that once you are engaged in pvp, you can not break the encounter unless a) you score a kill or b) you have neither hit or _been hit_ for 20s  _and_ do not have detrimentals active on another player

+ Have people enter combat when hit. Prevent players from following you around all day, waiting for you to be engaged for an easy kill, running if you attack.

+ Please finally fix the scout detaunt exploit. It is really getting frustrating.

Conji specific: I posted a bunch of conji pvp issues in the class forum several weeks ago. But I'm pretty sure nobody cares anyway.

Regarding the lag: It has been better, but it's not OK. Chasing a guy with a mage is still pretty much pointless. Even if you're right next to him, the second you stop to cast your root you'll be 'too far away'.

[Eboncross]

edit made so not to lock OP thread

[We_want_your_soul]

assassins heal way more from stuff other than vitality breach, it's a pretty tame heal compared to Symphonic Alure, Bloodfeast etc.

[plavem_davem]

To the poster above, the too far away means you are doing something wrong. And honestly why would you root them first. Stun them then root them, then move up to them and go to town.

For the lag, people are always going to complain, with the new hardware I have not lagged not one time. People go buy some decent computers.

As far as fame yeah it would be nice to get credit for what you kill instead of getting a title for how much you pvp.

Tokens are fine leave them alone. As I said in another post. If you join a raiding guild you on adverage will get 1 piece of loot a night... meaning that in 4 hours you may get 1 piece of loot. Some night you may get more some night you may get 0 but it adverages out. In pvp you sepnd 4 hours a night pvpign you should get that 1 piece of loot. Some nights you may not some nights you may. And to those people who cry about afkers..... Lie to me and tell me you never got sat on a raid and still got loot while sittiing in the guild hall listening to vent.

O and I have never been one shotted by an assassin. Half life, sure but i do that with icecomet.

As for the wards. Wards are good, who cares if you have to burn through a bunch to kill someone. Honestly its easy to dispell them, or just to burn through them. If you are solo vsing a group then yeah I can see why you are upset, but honestly 1 v 1 they aren't bad.

The fights lenghts this is a bad subject because most of the time people don't pay enough attention. Most the time in 1v1 the fights are rather short. In group pvp the fights are really long. Thats the way it should be. I mean honestly if your assassin could walk up and one shot my healer and then take out my whole group because the assassin popped temps on my healer what fun would that be.

Like i said people will always whine because they are good enough so they blame the game. Ive heard it all before "hes hacking" I can't catch him. For once stop and look around, you will realize that sometimes your character isn't going to have the upper hand and you just have to deal with that.

[EndevorX]

Bryony@Nagafen wrote:

Kiara and I discussed putting up a thread for current PvP issues that we, and you guys, can keep it updated as changes are made. Please post any feedback and issues and I will update this main post with them.

Please refrain from personal name calling and bickering, it will be deleted. This isn't the place for it. Keep it to current PvP issues, mechanics, math, etc. Give solid examples with valid numbers to back them up - or explain your feedback in a way that makes it helpful to those working on PvP for us in trying to understand our issues.

Please feel free to respond with any issues we have missed, additions/changes and/or feedback. Thanks!!

PvP Issues:1.) Reinstate fame loss/title loss in pvp.2.) Remove fame decay from the game.3.) Give us the option not to show titles until they are fixed. (And, then keep the option once fixed.)4.) Remove writ system, return to token drops from pvp, or possibly change to faction based gear.5.) As it stands, increase the time between writ refresh, it is now way too short.6.) More time in between warfields to promote open pvp in between, tier them out, or remove them altogether.7.) Restore avatars, or add worthwhile content, to inspire contested pvp.8.) Rally banners removed or adjusted on PvP servers to where they can be killed or taken down by opposition.Battle Grounds Issues:9.) Need more maps for each scenerio.10.) Need more options for types of bg: raid, x2, group v group, and 1v1 duel, deathmatch or battle style options.11.) Need lobby with the ability to form groups and chat with players from other servers.Gear / Class related issues:12.) Passive taunt in pvp needs adjustment. Taunts should be active in pvp. Passive too powerful.13.) Ward gear needs adjustment especially at lower levels.14.) Assassin shadowstep/assassinate needs adjustment, one shot any class nearly with full pvp gear / possibly just an adjustment to Predator's final trick in PvP.

1.) Consensus agrees prior PvP title systems were very ingenious, innovative, and infinite for content longevity.

 I. Fame loss/gain from 1-up/1-down/on par w/ your rank rewarded labor with casual PvP fights off the fame record.

 II. Rivalry, competition, the hunt, ability to impact other's work negatively or positively, these are all parts of the thrill in PvP ranks.

 III. End-game players, fully decked out, will have more motivation to be virally engaged, rather than stagnate, once this line of PvP progression is returned.

2.) Fame decay is bad, because it removes player choice from the game.

 I. Attempts at passive enslavery, dictating control, often result in avoidance and the erasing of attachment. 

 II. 90% of the other experience behind EQ2 content is potentially PvE (chatting/decorating/crafting/tinkering/adorning/transmuting/instances/raiding/grinding/questing/AA runs/mentoring/helping newbies).

   · Players need freedom in hobbyism a la carte, as they choose, to reinforce the fact that this should be about leisure, relaxation, and lax socialization.

 III. Fame decay ruins enjoyment of PvP ranks on alternative characters. If your work from a fame hunt will just wash away, many stop caring about fringe characters, and more about particular mains.

 IV. No risk of loss makes titles completely worthless, whereas they used to be an accurate gauge of situational awareness.

 V. No risk of loss trivializes devotion to victory and negating attempts at death.

   · Players become more willing to engage sturdy, resilient groups WITHOUT priests or quality set-ups of their own, often in attempts at ganking a particular proficient grouped engaged with one of similar caliber, careless to how they tend to die 90% of the time as leeches.

   · Less careful players makes for more boring PvP, due to the lack of competitive spirits.

3.) I agree, and have consistently supported, that there should be a 1 week reuse, 30 second casting toggle for participating in the PvP rank system.

   · It should also reset your PvP rank.

   · Remove fame gain while dead.

   · Greys used to not have ANY risk of losing fame to reds if they engaged AFTER someone else did. It used to be considered fair, because it was thought that greys could lose fame if they engaged a red, but this was ONLY if they engaged FIRST.

   · I edited a post elsewhere, to now disagree with a position in which I had said fame gain/loss should be possible from those still on your recent or if you're still on someone's recent. I feel combating respawn zergers should be a component of title progression/maintenance, as engagement location is a very valid strategy.

4.) I completely, strongly disagree. Body drops minimalize competitive strategy and merely make PvP engagements a test of who can click chests faster, rewarding those who take their focus away from the PvP at hand. Faction based systems make the rate of equipping one's self too ambiguous and vague when allowing players the ability to be balanced and competitive is a priority.

5.) I completely, strongly disagree. Writ reuse SHOULD NOT be increased, because the /recent list is now INFINITE, so you can no longer knock those already on it off /recent by getting more than 30 kills within 30 minutes from the 1st kill.

6.) I completely, strongly disagree. Warfields offer guaranteed, consistent PvP when factions are willing to make an effort of attendance.

   · If anything, warfields should all start every hour, simultaneously, at all offensive/defensive locales. This will reinforce healthy population distribution.

   · Warfields population caps must also be removed, as many get demoralized from having to deal with the "exploit" of bypassing the population caps, one SOE hasn't even been willing to comment on.

   · Reward should also not be a charity grant of 5 tokens for getting flagged, but a doubling, or an additional 2 or 1 tokens, for PvP writs completed during an active warfield. New victor bonuses should allow 1 out of 20 choices, all viable in PvE, to promote widespread attraction to this feature.

7.) I, and consensus, strongly agrees. Even group-based, or x2-based, progression PvE encounters retrofitting the Hole, Sundered Frontier, or Stonebrunt Highlands, could make them meaningful chokepoints. x4 raid mobs on the order of Avatars should also return.

8.) I, and consensus, likely, strongly agrees. Eboncross' idea that even enemy players should be able to travel into a guild hall from a rally banner is also good. Guild halls allowing for PvP could be opted for or forced, but I'd consider a poll before forcing.

9.) Destiny of Velious debuting in February will answer your concerns.

10.) Everyone has wanted at least 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3, 4 vs 4, 5 vs 5, or 6 vs 6 deathmatch options. Some worry battlegrounds queues may suffer if 1 vs 1s are put in, or even other vanilla types of encounters, and these concerns may be legitimate.

11.) A battlegrounds lobby has been widely suggested, with some supporting, some not.

   · Many feel this would reinforce elitist cliques and further trod down the casuals who haven't yet invested in mains for token farming.

   · But, even 1 or 2 groupmates of such a lower caliber tend to erase a chance of victory against a stacked group.

   · I support this, as it may add a more positive, communal feel to battlegrounds.

   · Mostly, queues should be segregated based upon premade and solo queuing encounters.

12.) Extremely in-depth, fine, meticulous testing would need be done before managing passive taunt percentages.

13.) Damage mitigation from Toughness, at lower levels, shouldn't scale, but retain the conversion value Toughness has at the top tier.

   · Critical bonus, criticals, and offensive procs are mostly irrelevant and minor minutiae for lowbies, so the excess of 25%+ damage mitigation MUST be reduced to the true, 15 Toughness equals 1% damage mitigation, or less, should Toughness conversion rates be evaluated.

   · Lowbie ward/reflect proc gear must be completely abolished and replaced. Cookie cutter itemization that needlessly extends longevity merely exacerbates the potency of overpowered classes.

   · Return to ability modifier, procs, or critical chance modifications gives greater immersion to roles and class efficiency, rather than the impotent and ineffective feel of invulnerability that ward procs give.

14.) Seems like nitpicking, as I personally find Assassins balanced well, especially given the extreme DPS all the variety of other classes are capable of.

[Toxicz]

Eboncross@Nagafen wrote:

Toxicz@Nagafen wrote:

To the poster above, vitality breach doesn't do [Removed for Content], I have no clue why you would think otherwise. Fettering is broke, it needs to be fixed tbh. You are high.

My main point was more sarcasim to the RANGER that made the original post if you call out to nerf a basic of a class like Amends in PVP then you deserve getting stupid nerfs as well . Leave Paladins alone they are nerfed enough. Also dont try and sell me BS on viatality breach that heal for 2k a proc is lame. I got in a fight with a assassin vs me and a warden and he healed for 500k.  So I suggest you look into this more and quit trying to sell BS. The guys in my guild that play scouts have switched and noticed a big diffrence in lasting longer in fights. Fettering is broken? is like saying SK's are fine. That crap procs so much as soon as its cured another goes on. On a serious side I wouldnt want to see a nerf but dont try and sell me that its broken because Im not buying it. I dont want to see any more class nerfs, the equipment is what the problem is.

fighters are also in check now, they can't heal as much as a healer can anymore, which is fine. The only fighter who really got shafted was pally...

Remove toughness or tweak it. The imbalance of DPS vs heals/damage taken is completely broken atm

Only thing about assassins and rangers that needs to be looked at is predators final trick. Either REMOVE the 40% crit bonus mod in pvp, or reduce it to 20%, keep the "no longer needing to stealth" component on it tho. Having 40% CB on a temp is completely outrageous for pvp.

You have no clue what your talking about. Yes fettering is broken, it doesn't use the same rule as other CC, same with the Assassin stifle and root. Also I'd love to see a parse where vitality breach healed someone for 2k a proc. The items that were healing this Assassin were more than likely Blood Ritual, Blood Symphony or Symphonic Allure. Before you complain get your facts straight.

[Bryony]

Please understand the original post wasn't meant to be *my* specific ideas. It was a compliation of me asking everyone I know in game and on forums, and in me reading these forums extensively to come up with a cumulative list of common issues we all seem to agree on and share. I do not personally agree with all of them but the idea is to keep up with issues based on player desire so that a system can be fixed / created / tweaked that makes us all happy. As much as possible, anyway. I think we can all agree the current system and set up right now is pretty broken and we all want it to be worked on. It seems like the powers that be are looking into it and so voila, this thread!

Yes, I am indeed a ranger. No I am not calling for any specific class to be nerfed. This isn't the place to just cry about a class being OP or getting killed, or defend your class. I do agree Predator's Final Trick needs some looking at in PvP. It is definitely OP - but far more for Assassins than Rangers. Side note I do not, and never have, used vitality breach in PvP.

I will test it though and get back to you with some solid numbers for what it is actually doing on the parse.

Thank you all so much for the responses. I will continue to update the main post with your feedback and issues. Anyone who can show me parses and math to add to this would be fabulous. If you have an issue please back it up with data not just complaining and as always please keep the cursing and personal infighting out of this, it will be deleted.

[Epiph]

Threads like this get ignored by the Devs, might as well just give up & stop trying seeing as they refuse to listen to what the veteran players want.  Instead they only listen to the little noobs that cry, hence why the game is the way it is today.

[Olihin]

The thread is not ignored.

The changes are being made. 

In fairness, I have increased my post count quite nicely.  I am also avoiding the urge to +1 on some without constructive responses.  

The chance that this response will be read by someone seeking answer in another thread is slim.   But I am answering and reading them while trying to do the changes that you guys are asking. 

I need to go update my kill count as well.  LFG anyone pvp?

Olihin

[Toxicz]

Olihin wrote:

I need to go update my kill count as well.  LFG anyone pvp?

Olihin

Yea sure whats your name in-game?

[Notsovilepriest]

Toxicz@Nagafen wrote:

Olihin wrote:

I need to go update my kill count as well.  LFG anyone pvp?

Olihin

Yea sure whats your name in-game?

bubbacajin, ayuk, or sylvanking are my guesses

[DerBomber]

I would like to see a way to make Raid aquired armour a possible choice in pvp. It doesn't have to be as good as the armour from the BG vendors in terms of survivability. Either by, as suggested before, removing thoughness or adding pvp crit mit and/or thoughness. This would promote contested pvp. As it stands now its not exactly difficult to wipe a raid fighting a contested.

Alos, I wnat Warfields in Barren Sky. Ask anyone who has played since launch, Barren Sky pvp is still most peoples favorite.

[Toxicz]

DerBomber wrote:

 Either by, as suggested before, removing toughness or adding pvp crit mit and/or toughness. This would promote contested pvp. As it stands now its not exactly difficult to wipe a raid fighting a contested.

this is another huge thing for pvp. Ohilin with how you made toughness a MUST have for pvp, contested pvp is completely ruined, which I might add is one of the funniest if not THE most fun type of pvp in the game. Your the pvp dev, wouldn't you want to promote a "fair" balance in all types of pvp? With toughness around a full grp of good players can wipe a raid pulling a contested in full pve gear, this doesn't seem fair personally. Atleast make PVE armor viable in PVP to some extent, that is the only way to make it fair in contested pvp.

Also the change your doing to mutilation isn't going to solve anything, its just going to take less strategy and skill out of grp pvp and completely own solo healers. I get it, your trying to go about removing survivability in a different way, but doing this isn't going to help that, its just going to dumb down the game even more, and cause more problems.

Please post a reply on this or PM me.

[Guld_Ulrish]

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Toxicz@Nagafen wrote:

Olihin wrote:

I need to go update my kill count as well.  LFG anyone pvp?

Olihin

Yea sure whats your name in-game?

bubbacajin, ayuk, or sylvanking are my guesses

LOL

[EndevorX]

Toxicz@Nagafen wrote:

DerBomber wrote:

 Either by, as suggested before, removing toughness or adding pvp crit mit and/or toughness. This would promote contested pvp. As it stands now its not exactly difficult to wipe a raid fighting a contested.

this is another huge thing for pvp. Ohilin with how you made toughness a MUST have for pvp, contested pvp is completely ruined, which I might add is one of the funniest if not THE most fun type of pvp in the game. Your the pvp dev, wouldn't you want to promote a "fair" balance in all types of pvp? With toughness around a full grp of good players can wipe a raid pulling a contested in full pve gear, this doesn't seem fair personally. Atleast make PVE armor viable in PVP to some extent, that is the only way to make it fair in contested pvp.

Also the change your doing to mutilation isn't going to solve anything, its just going to take less strategy and skill out of grp pvp and completely own solo healers. I get it, your trying to go about removing survivability in a different way, but doing this isn't going to help that, its just going to dumb down the game even more, and cause more problems.

Please post a reply on this or PM me.

It was officially stated that block forces equipped in PvP gear are now required...but I don't think that matters cause there isn't really anything that good for everyone from contested raid mobs.

[Darkor]

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Toxicz@Nagafen wrote:

Olihin wrote:

I need to go update my kill count as well.  LFG anyone pvp?

Olihin

Yea sure whats your name in-game?

bubbacajin, ayuk, or sylvanking are my guesses

Rofl

[Azekah1]

I would say Celery, but they argue to much in the forums. Of course, I could see him doing that on purpose...

[Notsovilepriest]

I know Ohilin's job is a rough one, but at the same time, when a majority of people are saying something like toughness is an issue and he ignores it because it's basically his little baby that can do no wrong, it frustrates me. Go back to just crit mit, hell even go with 2 types of crit mit still, PvP Crit mit which has 100% Effectiveness in PvP, and PvE crit mit is scaled to 50-60% of effectiveness in PvP but still gives alternate ways to competing.

[Bosconi]

IMO, this thread is redundant and pointless because most concerns were expressed in the Fan Faire Feedback in Action thread, aside from the desire to have more viable, contested content.

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

PvP Ranks

Now for the classic fame system with 1 week reuse/30 sec casting toggle/reset from participating in the PvP rank establishment.

Also restrict fame gain while dead, to avoid greys leeching from mains to sell fame hits.

Warfields Population/Lag/Commmunity Involvement

... - C R O P P E D - ...

Simultaneous initiation for all warfields will ensure population/latency isn't an issue.

Once that's done, warfields instances can have their population caps removed so that many aren't off-put from participating.

It's no wonder that city PvP completely died down from the group vs group and raid vs raid experience that it was after warfields population caps were instated.

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Lowbie PvP Survivability

PvP gear wards/reflect bonuses should be replaced

Toughness' damage mitigation component shouldn't scale, but assume the conversion rate at top tier

Lowbie PvP with enhanced survivability only drastically augments the overpowered classes in tiers below the top, like Wardens and Shadowknights

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Dudoes@Nagafen wrote:

Olihin wrote:

Greetings once again,

In regards to the issues with faction balance and concerns about low levels affecting your experience in Warfields.   I am currently taking some of the suggestions made about tiering them but breaking them into 3 separate sections.  

• T2-T4 commonlands/antonica
• T5-T7 everfrost/lavastorm
• T8-T10 kylong/jarsath

In each case, the tower guardians would be set to not be targetable by anyone over the level range.   Players that choose to visit the other zones can but will not be rewarded based on their level.   I also wish for them to have them spawn at the same time to avoid confusion.   This is something that I hope will decrease the concerns many have with the in combat change.   I am PMing some of you to get more thoughts on this and locations were the towers would fit nicely.  

Please also remember that this is all pending time available from other tasks I am required to do for expansion and battleground duties.  

Olihin

this is great and all but we need to see more incentive to actually win then to just collect 5 tokens win/lose.....

and the fame issue is more of a problem than this wf malfunction

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

1.) Warfields

 D. Reward systems must be revised - NO auto-granting tokens for getting flagged.  - 30 mins w/ the OLD writ poster reuse were worth 15 open world PvP tokens.  - Recent lists are now seemingly infinite, making the writ poster reuse of 5 mins no more efficient, or less efficient, than a writ poster reuse of 10 mins w/ a cap on the recent list.  - AFKers profit from doing NOTHING w/ warfields automatically issuing rewards. These are dead-weight leechers that might negatively impact zone performance, existing due to this flaw in warfields implementation.  - PvP writs completed during active warfields should reward double tokens. THIS would put the focus back on open world PvP & organization.  - Warfields victors should be given their choice of:  · 10% mount speed  · 20% in-combat runspeed  · 5 Crit Bonus  · 15 pet crit bonus  · 5% spell double attack  · 5% flurry  · 15% AOE auto attack  · +5 meters spell/combat art range  · 10% Reuse  · 20% Casting  · +50% Adv./Trade/AA XP (stacks w/ mentoring & potions)  · 30 DPS/Haste proc 2x/min (35 sec duration, stacks w/ all item procs)  · -10% resistability (combat art & spell applicable)  · Potion/Signet/Relic/PvP trinket/Tinkered item reuse HALVED (100% reduced) & failure chances removed  · Fear (5 sec duration, 30 m range, 1 min reuse, no dmg, 1 sec casting [unaffected by casting speed])  · 75% snare (10 sec duration, 30 m range, 1 min reuse, no dmg, 1 sec casting [unaffected by casting speed])  · Single group instance timer reset (usable ONCE a day on ONE instance; players can NOT enter an instance reset w/ this feature if they already have done so that day)  · Adornment extrication (usable ONCE biweekly, every 2 weeks, this would let a player remove an adornment from an item)  · Equipment liberator (usable ONCE monthly, this would let a player unattune 1 item)  - Warfields bonuses would last until that character logged off, or until the opposing faction won a warfields of that player's tier.  - Creating in-demand warfields victor effects, operable in PvE as well, will ensure the attraction to them is strong & consistent.

Apiar wrote:

Remove the cap requirements on the instances.  The new servers are performing nicely so no need to any longer cap zone population making people spam for group invites to get into zone.

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

EQ2Player wrote:

Pretty nice changes, especially the Warfield ideas.

Chakos wrote:

Olihin wrote:

   The balance is community maintained and it fluctuates constantly so it is best to let the players figure out what works best for them.  

Olihin

True, balance IS community maintained. That the balance fluctuates constantly has been false ever since Onyx went Q and WFs were rewarding 15 tokens to the winning side -- ever since those 2 events happened, Q has massively outnumbered FP. You say it is best to let the players figure out what works best for them; right now what works best is being Q, period. As your (meaning SOE) continued dumbing down of the game proves, a great percentage of the population enjoy the easy path to success. The population will not balance itself at this point, particularly with more and more reasons to be a Q are introduced -- there HAS to be some incentive. As long as you, Olihin, our PvP dev has outed himself as a Q, balance is screwed.... who would want to give up their pocket dev? This change will do nothing to make open PvP more challenging; FP is already challenged, and this sure as heck doesn't make it more challenging to be a Q.

Implementing this will kill pvp, particularly if transfers to pve are allowed. Sounds like the more challenging Pvp will consist of finding any open pvp at all.

Incentives, bonuses, or something that can aid in balancing the sides should be on the table. Although I agree that the players should be empowered to take care of this itself, this game and others have proven that mechanics need to be in place to help things along (Examples of RP bonuses: Warhammer, DAOC) etc.

Clearly, a third faction (Exile) would play a balancing act to the sides. This was evidenced in DAOC with three sides keeping a checks-and-balances system, while its removal was also a downfall as evidencied in Wahammer and EQ2 now.

IMO

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Olihin wrote:

• Yes, I know that many will not like the change since it does make open PvP a lot more challenging but there are many ways to avoid PvP in game now that this change will only affect those that want to PvP.  

The change will make being in open PvP a lot more challenging then it currently is.  Although the mindset of most is currently the swarm, evil faction players will currently be at a disadvantage.   The balance is community maintained and it fluctuates constantly so it is best to let the players figure out what works best for them.

I'd like to note that if this is implemented, it should definitely be a major priority to implement a passive faction balance system like the one I've been vying for.

See Part 3 of the "EQ2's PvP Panacea" thread in my signature for the concept fully realized! ;o

I predict many Freeportians shall rage over this, and rightfully so!

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

3.) Faction Balance - Yes, players can choose what faction they play in, but why let the life of the game suffer?

 A. On Nagafen, Qeynos UNDOUBTEDLY outnumbers Freeport at level 90. This results in unenjoyable warfields, due to the lack of a contest. B. Open betrayal ABSENT SPELL LOSS according to the relative tier/faction imbalance. - Players would be warned, UPON STARTING OR PROGRESSING the questline that would make them an Exile, that they would keep their spells if they successfully betrayed to the needy opposite faction & remained the same class. - Players would also be warned that, if they tried to return to the faction w/ an active player surplus/excess, they would lose their spells.  B1. If a player is active (clocking in feats that would award adventurer XP) for 3+ hours a week, they are included in the "balance" tally as "active players". B2. The tally would be recounted every week during a server downtime, to ensure no extra load would be on the server to accomodate this algorithm for equity. - The algorithm would check to see if adventurer XP would've been awarded at 5 minute intervals. - 36+ confirmed 5 minute intervals of adv. XP gain would tag a character an "active player" - After 40 confirmed 5 minute intervals of adv. XP gain, the algorithm would ignore review of that player, to bypass unnecessary strain on the bandwidth performing these calculations. B3. "Welcome_Info" would display how many more players in your tier could betray & keep your spells.  - Active players wouldn't subtract from the allotment of "smuggled" betrayers required to obtain balance UNTIL they SUCCESSFULLY switched from good to evil, or vice versa.  - If the allotment is reached, players would be warned of their impending spell loss UPON STARTING OR PROGRESSING the questline that would make them an Exile.  - Active players already Exiled during the B4. Balance Tally Example:  - Freeport has 593 LVL 90 active players (doing feats that would otherwise award adv. XP for 5+ hrs/week)  - Freeport has 904 LVL 90 inactive players (doing feats that would otherwise award adv. XP for less than 5 hrs/week)  - Qeynos has 864 LVL 90 active players  - Qeynos has 1203 LVL 90 inactive players  - Qeynosian "Welcome_Info" menus would identify 136 spell-reserving slots of SUCCESSFUL betrayal to the opposite faction, as the same class.

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Balancing Offense from the Greys - Revenge Flag

Though I mentioned earlier that I felt the grey zergers/gankers are a strategic component players need to deal with when they consider their engagement location, we can all realize that, for the majority of tiers (T5-T9, 40-89), there are players who are going to be pretty lonely, without many other competitors or allies.

Because of that, I think there should be a system should be implemented to address the concerns that arise when there are massive hoards of greys, on the order of x2s to x8s. A flag system can be created to operate in isolated, direct cases, over faction-wide circumstances.

For instance, this flag could be called the Revenge Flag, and once a grey attacks a red, that red can come back to attack that grey, until that grey dies. If the grey dies after becoming Revenge Flagged from attacking a red considered player, then they lose their Revenge Flag, and the red can no longer hit them.

[Bosconi]

Vymm wrote in Tiered PvP Gear Idea:

Olihin stopped by today for a nice chat and there were some really nice ideas tossed around that hopefully we can see some improvements to promote some more open pvp soon.. As we all know open pvp has been dying lately and in my opinion it's likely because people are nearly all geared out now so there is no need for tokens so nobody comes out anymore.. However in my opinion there is a solution that would promote more open pvp because lets face it people are greedy and just want more gear. As long as there is something to spend tokens on whether it's a tiny upgrade to your current gear or something completely new that will always bring more people out for pvp. 

Basically we would be able to upgrade our current pvp/bg gear into OPEN PVP GEAR ONLY through multiple tiers that would have certain requirements to upgrade them etc.. The reason it would have to be OPEN PVP ONLY once it's upgraded to T2 and beyond is that the [Removed for Content] bluebie servers would complain if we were to use them in BGs.. The easy part is that you would not have to make new gear but could just have further upgraded versions of the current gear that is already mostly balanced. Just as you now have T1-T3 PVE gear you could also have T1-T5 pvp gear.. The more time you put in the better gear you would have instead of everyone having the exact same gear whether they spent 50 hours pvping or 5000 hours. These upgrade requirements are all completely random numbers I made up and can be anything you want as long as it's balanced yet exponentially harder to upgrade tiers.. For instance lets say our current gear is T1 gear.. 

T1 gear + 1000 tokens = T2 gear        (Requires 2000 total pvp kills to upgrade)

T2 gear + 2500 tokens = T3 gear (Requires 5000 total pvp kills and 500 city pvp kills to upgrade)

T3 gear + 5000 tokens = T4 gear (Requires 10000 total pvp kills and 1000 city pvp kills to upgrade)

T4 gear + 10000 tokens = T5 gear (Requires 20000 total pvp kills and 2000 city pvp kills to upgrade)

You would just have a vendor that you trade your current gear + tokens for the next tier gear as long as you passed the kill requirement.. For instance T1 to T2 could upgrade stats slightly or add more HP or make a damage proc hit twice as hard.. Then when you get up to the higher tiers T3+ you could also add unique class specific procs or even stuff like mutilate or something to upgraded gear as you get further up.. Then of course T5 would have to have something really super sick that would make people WANT to spend months of pvping to get.

PLEASE don't criticize this without offering helpful suggestions or modifications to the idea that might be usable because we all want the same thing. MORE OPEN PVP.

- Vymm

Seliri@Nagafen wrote in Re: Tiered PvP Gear Idea:

ULTRA Hardcore PvP Gear Progression

I'm kinda against releasing a progressive development system for gear, as it would only increase the disparity between newbies and veterans.

If there were some form of extreme gear progression like this, then you'd have players that might become as though walking GMs, and that would be very prohibitive for the possibility of enjoying success, given those who are unable to put forth a similarly substantial timesink.

I think, if a system like this was ever introduced, you'd want a flag, maybe call it "Valiant" for Qeynos and "Vindictive" for Freeport (or "Brutal" for Exiles).

Such a flag toggled ON would allow your gear to begin development under higher tier standards, but, you could only attack other players similarly flagged.

The stipulation would be that enabling or disabling this flag would have a 30 second cast time and a 1 week reuse (to avoid abusing toggling the flag to avoid troublesome foes).

Toggling the flag OFF would render unusable gear upgraded/gained through this system, and then you'd only be able to attack other players NOT in the proverbial "hardcore" mode, in the regular types of gear.

 - This gear would have tags like VALIANT VINDICTIVE BRUTAL to represent the state your character would need for usage.

If there are hardcore faction fighters, let them truly define themselves as such, and know that their competition will likewise be seriously, competitively minded.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________

Also, Vymm or any other Freeportians present during the conversation with Olihin, could you please paste the log lines of the discussion and commentary held with him so that we can get a more accurate representation of sentiments on this approach?

[Ilovecows]

Olihin wrote:

The thread is not ignored.

The changes are being made. 

In fairness, I have increased my post count quite nicely.  I am also avoiding the urge to +1 on some without constructive responses.  

The chance that this response will be read by someone seeking answer in another thread is slim.   But I am answering and reading them while trying to do the changes that you guys are asking. 

I need to go update my kill count as well.  LFG anyone pvp?

Olihin

I bet you are that necromancer my friend was telling me about.  a level 35 necro wiped his full group of well/descently twinked 35s in stormhold.  i still don't think i believe him.  but who knows.

[Bryony]

Olihin wrote:

The thread is not ignored.

The changes are being made. 

In fairness, I have increased my post count quite nicely.  I am also avoiding the urge to +1 on some without constructive responses.  

The chance that this response will be read by someone seeking answer in another thread is slim.   But I am answering and reading them while trying to do the changes that you guys are asking. 

I need to go update my kill count as well.  LFG anyone pvp?

Olihin

This thread isn't for people seeking answers on the forums.

This thread is for PvP player/server/mechanics issues and player/dev communication; in an effort to keep an open forum with you, God, and the other pantheon of lovely people there in the sky. ;P Thanks for replying.

When you say the changes are being made? Can you tell us anything about incoming changes, future plans, or your thoughts on what's in store for us?

LFG PVP OMG TBH IMO ASAP NAO KK THX .... If you can hang with these kids Sir, I dunno, but we'll give you a shot. ;P

ps lol toxicz

@bosconi It is never redundant when people have something to say and there are still changes to be made. This is the place to post the issues and things you want to see made. There will also be future mechanics that will need to be updated.

-----

PvP or Die.

[Bosconi]

Bosconi wrote:

Denna@Nagafen wrote:

Simple fix for all PvP issues.  Revert the game back to KoS.  Remove the massive amount of procs that were added since then.  Remove all the changes that have come since then.  This is when PvP was at its height.  Have you not noticed that since then the numbers of people on PvP have been dropping?  Perhaps because every time you change something now it doesn't fix all the other issues, it just creates more.

1.) Well they definitely should do polls on the PvP server to see if they should take away insta-travel bells/portals/guild strategists to replace them with more PvP oriented options.

But, SOE likely isn't going to be accommodating or compromising on this issue.

For instance, the guild strategist could be changed to force pinned, tracked waypoints on peoples' maps, to help find up to 3 enemies in contested zones.

Aside from that, contested/quested content is nowhere near what it was during earlier KoS/EoF ages.

Easy options to cultivate contested content exist.

2.) Create more mobs like Philuphii the Destroyer, the cerberus in Sundered Frontier, and just make them drop components people NEED to purchase/finalize moderate/EXTREME upgrades to PvP gear.

Substantial token costs would still be a prerequisite.

Also give these mobs specific PvP adornment components, recipes, or even more guild trophy, mounted heads.

These could be created for PvE servers as well, given their access to battlegrounds...

3.) All instances could also have CONSTANT, ALWAYS open contested versions scaled per tier (with players restricted to the version of their tier).

Drop rates could be adjusted accordingly, and this feature could be introduced to PvE servers, as well.

4.) Faction balance remains an extreme problem as well, one that requires passive bonuses with no spell/combat art loss for those transferring from stronger-to-weaker tiers to whichever faction.

Those are all, simply, drastic moves SOE might not be willing to commit to due to the casuals they feel are catered to with current implements, on top of the expenditure relative to the amount of population benefit.

And, finances obviously do seem very tight and conservative given timetravelling and many other SOE employees being laid off, as well as the fairly small scale of Destiny of Velious when compared to expansive options introduced in Rise of Kunark.

5.) At the very least, fame decay needs to be entirely abolished and fame loss on death from those ranked 1 up/down/on par with your rank needs to return.

This horse has been beaten and many, many threads have been made multi-page, locked, and abandoned on the issue.

Supposedly the effort to restore this rule set is complicated, but nobody is communicating as to why...O_o

The only 2 changes the old fame system needs are: no fame gain while dead & a 1 week reuse, 30 sec casting toggle to reset your rank and opt in or out of participation in the PvP title system.

I did support fame loss/gain even while on recent or even with someone on your recent, but that's excessive, as the hurdle of building a title is dealing with respawn zergers if you inappropriately make yourself susceptible by engaging in chokepoint, troublesome regions.

(P.S. I obviously ignored your idea to "remove the massive amounts of procs that have since been added post-KoS" because that's an extremely unrealistic, uncompromising request to make, given how expansion content focuses on item progression, as well as the monumental amounts of time players have already spent in an effort to obtain such gear.)

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

But yeah, I'd just like to see tests with the damage mitigation component cut by 50% or 75%, because making mutilate uncurable will just force boring, cookie cutter specifications if there isn't: a way to augment at least 1-2 normal accessories with mutilate, as well as vastly improved weapon offerings (hopefully listed at exorbitant, irreducible token rates to warrant their rarity and demand, see: Re:Re:GU #57: No new PvP/BG accessories? Timetravelling said...).

Bosconi wrote:

Longevity is also being addressed with mutilate being undispellable, but IMO, there should be a yellow slot or some sort, to adorn a limit of 1-2 items with mutilate, in order to avoid forced cookie cutter specifications that nobody likes.

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Olihin wrote:

Gungo wrote:

I lost track of the changes you were talking about.

Will toughness still provide PVP crit mit?

Yes.  1.5 PvP Critical Mitigation for every 1% of Toughness is the formula. 

note: I get lost posting on both BG and here as well.  /sigh

Olihin

Why is this not the case for lower level players?

LVL 35+ lowbies with 25% damage mitigation is SO ridiculously obscene it just DOES NOT make sense.

Lowbies have nothing next to the critical chance or critical bonus values to even warrant such an unacceptable rise in longevity and near annihilation of offensive capability.

i.e. Look in the thread I'd like an explanation.

Bosconi wrote:

Naroc@Nagafen wrote:

Nah, I feel no need to get defensive about my class. It has its strengths and its weaknesses. Unfortunately with the CC nerf and this toughness junk, there are just alot of problems right now. I'm just too tired to go into detail because I feel like im talking to a brick wall when it comes to SOE addressing pvp issues.

Personally, I completely, completely disagree with the crowd control and charm nerfs and think they NEED TO BE UNDONE.

Naroc@Nagafen wrote:

Crowd control nerf needs to be undone yes, the charm nerf I dunno. The ability decided alot of fights and combine it with the Cazic Thule god charm or if used while blocking a contested just seemed entirely OP. I remember single handedly wiping a couple avatar pulls due to charming the MT and god charming the OT. It was so broken lol, can't say it wasn't fun though!

Bosconi wrote:

Mmm charming...I mean, if SOE is such an uncompromising wall on the issue, I'd be okay with charming not being reverted, but the other crowd control nerfs ought be undone fah shoi...but I'd preferably want it all undone.

SOE employees have officially stated that block forces are required to have PvP gear as opposed to PvE gear, so if you let someone get charmed and can't cure it and regain hate, then I would call that noobleriousness.

Bosconi wrote:

Olihin wrote:

Greetings,

In regards to pricing of items on vendors.  The prices are not 300+ tokens anymore since I believe everyone is smart enough to call me on it should Battleground vendors and Open PvP vendors differed drastically.   

At this time the items are about average 90 tokens + coin on BGs, and 150 tokens + status in PvP.   If I priced them at 350 or so like before, then we would have no one joining us in Open PvP since the BGs would be the easiest and most convenient way to get your armor.   As mentioned before, there will not be any items added to Open PvP that is also not added to the BG vendors.   So pricing items how it being done currently is in your best interest.  

I have to look at the overall health of the server and pricing items way to high or putting crazy restrictions on them would not be consistent and looked at fairly by you.  The hope is to get fame working and other in game fun activities set to make your time more enjoyable.

Olihin

I'd just like to extravagantly focus upon what I see to be a very troublesome concern here.

If gear is too easy to obtain and the grind or timesink of PvP isn't lengthy enough for people to have a higher, sustained motivation to PvP for the appropriately desirable items, players are going to be more likely to stagnate and be bored of PvP.

For one, consider the fact that people paid 1,000, 1,250, 1,500, and 2,000 tokens when PvP writs were still requiring specific sub-classes (I think they'd been changed to 5 tokens over 1 per writ at this time, but I'm not 100% sure on that).

Not only should there be raid-quality items priced at such rates, but there should be TOP OF THE LINE raid items selling for 8,000 TO 10,000 tokens (up to 64-88 times normal item cost).

Pricing for battlegrounds isn't an issue, as items that'd be worth 10,000 PvP tokens would multiply the normal armor rate by 66 to 88 times.

For the upper echelon of the high-class PvP items, they'd cost 88 times the normal armor rate (normal cost being 125 tokens).

For the lower echelon of the high-class PvP items, they'd cost 64 times the normal armor rate.

For the echelon of the mid/high-class PvP items, they'd cost 8-20 times the normal armor rate.

All you'd have to do is multiply battlegrounds rates by 8-20, 64, or 88.

Bosconi wrote:

TBH, PvP writ agents should've been left in contested PvP areas only.

Mystic/Fury/Illusionist/Dirge mythical nerfs were unneeded.

Silverzx wrote:

Why is it that Vox are allowed duels for people of the same faction while Nagafen duels are disabled?  I'm not saying whether it should or shouldn't be allowed on a pvp server.  What I'm saying is why do 2 pvp servers have different rules then each other?

Bosconi wrote:

Dueling was allowed on Test Copy when it was PvP enabled once.

It's always been whack to me that there hasn't been appropriate /duel usability on Nagafen, or arena options without potions and with PvP/PvE setting toggles.