6/28/10 - Rangers officially "fine"

[Sydares]

Xelgad wrote:

The reason that rangers have not seen tweaks to their class is because according to our investigation and data from other sources (including parses) there are rangers that are able to parse even with assassins. When their abilities are timed correctly, and standing in the correct range, rangers are a mighty force. Obviously gear and buffs play a factor as well. That isn’t to say that there will be no adjustments to rangers or mechanics that work differently for bows in the future.

 

EQ2Wire - Eleven Questions for Xelgad

So, in case anyone was wondering, the most efficient betrayal is to Neriak, doing the spider quest repeatedly.

[kartikeya]

I had one of those 'I'm laughing because if I don't I'm going to cry' reactions to this. I just. I mean. Okay. Well there we have it. Clearly, every top level ranger in the game, especially those who betrayed because they still wanted to be able to get a raid slot, were just doing it wrong. Clearly, folks, were just not standing in the right place. Clearly it's a timing issue. Clearly there's a magical spot to stand when fighting raid mobs that causes the game to ignore basic math.

Because, even though melee autoattack does more DPS than ranged, even before things like flurry and AE autoattack, and even though ranger combat art damage is unbelievably pathetic in comparison to assassins, and even though bow damage ratings are stupidly low, and even though our mythical buff is absolutely ridiculously underpowered, somehow, magically, rangers can keep up with other DPS classes in the magical fun land of sugar and happy that is SOE's brain. I get it now! If we just time things right and stand in the right spot, two plus two will equal five and we'll be able to keep up with classes who have the advantage on us in every way, shape and form imaginable.

Sorry guys. I'm afraid we're just not elite enough to figure out the mystical formula that will allow us to play our class effectively. We'd best leave that to the privileged few.

Of course, I asked for an answer, and I got one. I don't like the answer, but I did get one. Thank you, SOE, for that. It really lets me have a clear view of my choices from here on out.

[glowsintheda]

Well looks like it is time to switch mains. my ranger will still be fun for soloing and possibly the occasional group, but been playing a lot more of my SK recently anyway.  Shame he isn't nearly as geared as my ranger but he has been a lot more fun to play recently.

[Writer Cal]

Well, thank you kindly for finally making a statement on the matter, Xelgad.  We've been asking for some sort of response, and we got one.  At least we are no longer in the dark on it and can know that the class will remain in its current state for the most part.  This allows players whose mains are rangers to know what their choices are, and we can now proceed forward with those choices, instead of holding back and waiting for changes that are not coming.  We now know we can either continue with the class as is, betray or change mains, or to put our subscription money into another gaming company.

So.  Thank you.

[glowsintheda]

On the plus side, bonus exp weekend coming up for those of you wanting to level up new mains

[Boise]

How can you say this??? Have you even seen some of the assassin parses??? Have you seen some of their asassinate hits (almost 400k)???

I would love to see some of this data personally because I do not believe you. I can post some parses from flames and show you the large gap between the classes.

You just basically killed the class with that statement.

[Krodos]

All I can say is wow...  Where the F#$^ do they get thier numbers from?

Clearly when I group with [Removed for Content] wearing worse gear than me, and doing 10-20K or more DPS then me in groups and raids there's obviously nothing wrong with that at all...

I don't claim to be the best at the class, or even have any real decent gear (mostly BG, and T1 SF raid gear) when I get in a decent group I can hit 20-22k regularly (which I think is doing pretty good given the gear) But when an assassin comes in wearing 90% legendary gear, and is regularly hitting 20-25K, and heaven forbid he has the same amount of gear I do then they push like 30-36k regularly... Clearly clearly it's just becasue he knows how to play the toon better then I....

Man I must just suck at the class...  Thanks for pointing that out Xelgad

Edit:  I Figured it out!!  He didn't say WHAT gear and AA that his 'rangers vs assassins' compare at, No doubt those Uber fully T4 SF raid geared 250 AA rangers are holding thier own VS those uber SF legenday 180AA Assassins  Good for them!

[Nevao]

kartikeya wrote:

I had one of those 'I'm laughing because if I don't I'm going to cry' reactions to this. I just. I mean. Okay. Well there we have it. Clearly, every top level ranger in the game, especially those who betrayed because they still wanted to be able to get a raid slot, were just doing it wrong. Clearly, folks, were just not standing in the right place. Clearly it's a timing issue. Clearly there's a magical spot to stand when fighting raid mobs that causes the game to ignore basic math.

Because, even though melee autoattack does more DPS than ranged, even before things like flurry and AE autoattack, and even though ranger combat art damage is unbelievably pathetic in comparison to assassins, and even though bow damage ratings are stupidly low, and even though our mythical buff is absolutely ridiculously underpowered, somehow, magically, rangers can keep up with other DPS classes in the magical fun land of sugar and happy that is SOE's brain. I get it now! If we just time things right and stand in the right spot, two plus two will equal five and we'll be able to keep up with classes who have the advantage on us in every way, shape and form imaginable.

Sorry guys. I'm afraid we're just not elite enough to figure out the mystical formula that will allow us to play our class effectively. We'd best leave that to the privileged few.

Of course, I asked for an answer, and I got one. I don't like the answer, but I did get one. Thank you, SOE, for that. It really lets me have a clear view of my choices from here on out.

I simply don't know what to say at this point. I'm completely flabbergasted. An entire community apparently has no idea what it is supposed to do or just the right way to do it. Our opinions are apparently meaningless and and we are too stupid to figure out the game. That or we are completely missing all the appropriate gear.

The only thing I can think of is that they are basing this opinion of simple group content or easy mode raid content (in terms of raiding) or off previous tiers. That or the amount of effort for an Assassin to reach certain numbers compared to what we have to do is completely irrelevant. Who cares if AA's and CA's are all skewed in their favor, some ranger (or some small group of them) somewhere can parse just as well so we're not going to make any significant changes even if a large number of Rangers can't .

Thank you Xelgad. Glad you finally told us, but seriously if you're going to tell us we have no idea what we're talking about, or that our perceptions are completely off base, why could you not at least have come and told us in the official forums and not on some fan site? Obviously we don't agree with your studies, but I'm just as disapointed that after three years of us trying to convince the devs that this how it gets communicated to us...

[Solaar Wynd]

Sydares wrote:

Xelgad wrote:

The reason that rangers have not seen tweaks to their class is because according to our investigation and data from other sources (including parses) there are rangers that are able to parse even with assassins. When their abilities are timed correctly, and standing in the correct range, rangers are a mighty force. Obviously gear and buffs play a factor as well. That isn’t to say that there will be no adjustments to rangers or mechanics that work differently for bows in the future.

 

EQ2Wire - Eleven Questions for Xelgad

So, in case anyone was wondering, the most efficient betrayal is to Neriak, doing the spider quest repeatedly.

Maybe Xelgad would be willing to demonstrate these dps techniques for all of us scrubs who obviously can't play our class.

Really, I must insist.  What timings?  What ranges?  If there's some secret way to play Rangers that give them Assassin dps, please let us know!  How?!  How?!

Hey, I know!  SOE could offer Ranger lessons through the Station Store!  YES!  Win / Win all around!  Sony makes more money off of us and we become the uber Rangers of Assassin Power!

Sigh...

[Boise]

The problem is Xelgad does not understand how rangers are played and used in a raid setting (where our dps sucks).

1) Rangers do not have a self DPS buff like assassins. So, we are dependant on certain classes to max out our auto attack like Coercers, dirges, and Inq.

2) Rangers are never thrown into the MT (main tank group) because we do not have a hate transfer utility like assassins. Therefore, rangers will not get that huge HP boost that assassins will get in a MT group. So, when rangers are within the "sweet" spot, they are usually dead due to AoEs or in this case...lack of HP. With that said, are rangers expected to sacrifice dps AAs in order to get HP AAs? Kinda stupid?

3) Ranger do not have a chain CA ability that allows them to chain cast (fast) CAs in order to build up for their big attack: Fatal Followup.

4) Assassinate is doing almost 400k in damage in comparison to Sniper Shot which is doing @255k. That is not right.

5) Assassins have much faster casting CAs and better refreshers than rangers.

[Neiloch]

Xelgad wrote:

The reason that rangers have not seen tweaks to their class is because according to our investigation and data from other sources (including parses)

We've been investagting for years. How long have you, your person, been doing it? Tell me how long you have been raiding 12 hours a week disecting every hour of it.

there are rangers that are able to parse even with assassins.

Crap assassins. Another flaw in your research. Yes if you take the worst assassins and put them against the best rangers, the rangers will win. You put them up against the best assassins I seriously doubt they will come close to even.

When their abilities are timed correctly, and standing in the correct range, rangers are a mighty force.

So you mean when we attack around auto attack, have a good rotation and stand at 4-5 meters so we can do all our CA's without moving? Yeah every decent ranger i know does this already. Try again.

Obviously gear and buffs play a factor as well. That isn’t to say that there will be no adjustments to rangers or mechanics that work differently for bows in the future.

True. Though the only way I can put out what I would call proper numbers is in a severely stacked group. Even then you give a ranger, assassin and wizard their ideal setups, rangers will come in third every time.

 

EQ2Wire - Eleven Questions for Xelgad

lol.

What ever data you are basing this on, is not available to concerned rangers, or we have never ever looked in the right place for it. Or your basing it on bad/incorrect data in the sense of scenarios. Look at high end raids. And don't average it out with low end raids, PvP, BG's or groups. JUST high end raids. And don't look at your calculators, equations and spreadsheets either, those things have been spouting out bad numbers and items for years. And I don't want to hear WORD ONE about PvP or soloing, I MIGHT entertain numbers from groups. Honestly the only way I can see this being true is rangers that are 'playing correctly' and performing well either never ever visit this forum or the 'other' forum, or don't know they are performing well for some reason.

This is why I hate it when people use averages. If you were able to sample from several 10's of thousands of rangers and the same amount of assassins you might have some decent numbers to go on, otherwise averages aren't going to be good enough.

I submit this be put in the general forum as well. Because not only is he calling the ranger community wrong, he is calling the bulk of the EQ2 community wrong. You think guilds don't take rangers because of personal reasons? they know they can do just as well as assassins, they just don't like stick throwers taking up all their harvest depot stuff and void warped wood. Some unexplainable vibe they give off people just don't like that's out of the dev teams control?

Only way what he said can be true without him just being flat out wrong is if his standards are much much lower than playing, raiding rangers. He sees rangers beat assassins a few select times, and otherwise not getting completely blown out of the water by other DPS classes and thinks its good enough.

[Writer Cal]

Yes.  Well.  Maybe I should just stand at max range and wildly spam moar buttons in any random order.  'Cause this whole stand in the sweet spot, timing CAs between auto-attacks, and using a good rotation thing isn't working out so well.

And about the buffs.  Sure, our dps goes up with the right buffs.  I won't even get into whether or not it goes up enough, since it's pretty much a he said/she said deal when we don't know Xelgad's uber ranger numbers.  But we rarely ever get those buffs because we're not put in the right groups, because no one gives a crap about our utility, Focus Aim and the hawk-that-dies-when-mobs-sneeze.  No one notices.  No one cares.  No one ever says, "It'd be nice if we had a ranger for that" the way they say "It'd be nice if we had an assassin or swashy for hate transfer."  No one ever says, "Yays, the ranger cast focus aim!" the way they say, "Yays, the assassin gave me poison!"  It's utility that's invisible or not desired by players.

I can stop casting Focus Aim and the hawk at various points, and the only thing anyone notices is that my own dps goes down without Focus Aim.  They don't notice the lack of it and the hawk for their own performance at all.

And when we are put in the right groups, preferred buffs go to assassins, rogues, dirges, or fighters, because either everyone believes it will give a greater benefit to most any class but the ranger or it actually does give a greater benefit (flurry, aoe auto-attack) so rangers STILL don't get the same buffage as many other classes.  Technically, a ranger can't get the same about of buffage as other scouts because there's no equivalent to make up for the buffs that simply don't work on us due to mechanics.

[kartikeya]

Daenee@Antonia Bayle wrote:

And about the buffs.  Sure, our dps goes up with the right buffs.  I won't even get into whether or not it goes up enough, since it's pretty much a he said/she said deal when we don't know Xelgad's uber ranger numbers. 

I can tell you from a great deal of experience that it doesn't. Rangers don't get nearly the gain from those kinds of buffs that any other DPS class does, that's half the reason rangers rarely get put into the groups where they will get those buffs. Our DPS does go up a fair amount, and it's a beautiful thing, but not nearly as much as an assassin or swashy or sorcerer with the right buffs will see. In fact, I have been on raids where I had the most ideal buffs, and the assassin had crap buffs in a crap group. This is the only time I managed to give him any competition, and the swashy and warlock continued to soar far far above us both.

This is not rocket science, which is why it's so infuriating. All anyone has to do to see the problem is 1) do their own tests to realize that ranged autoattack does less DPS than melee autoattack, even if you ignore flurry and AE autoattack, and with crap legendary melee weapons versus the mythical, 2) Get a 90 ranger, look at their combat art numbers, look at their mythical buff, look at their AA choices, 3) get a 90 assassin, look at their combat art numbers, look at their mythical buff, look at their AA choices. As a bonus, you can also compare damage ratings between raid bows and raid 2handers, then look at dual wield options. If you can look at that and not see the problem, you failed basic grade school math where you learned certain numbers were greater than other numbers.

There is no magical formula that will suddenly net you the necessary DPS. Sure, there are things you can do to perform better, and I'm willing to bet any raiding ranger here already knows them by heart, because we are so desperate to try and keep up and justify a raid slot. I really can't stand this idea that doing decent DPS is a mystical secret that only a precious few can obtain. I hate it when other players spout it, I really don't like it when a dev does. But, well, I'm not sure what else can be done. We've said all that can be said a thousand times over, just since January.

[Odysia]

Sydares wrote:

Xelgad wrote:

The reason that rangers have not seen tweaks to their class is because according to our investigation and data from other sources (including parses) there are rangers that are able to parse even with assassins. When their abilities are timed correctly, and standing in the correct range, rangers are a mighty force. Obviously gear and buffs play a factor as well. That isn’t to say that there will be no adjustments to rangers or mechanics that work differently for bows in the future.

 

EQ2Wire - Eleven Questions for Xelgad

Fixed

[Nevao]

Odysia@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Sydares wrote:

Xelgad wrote:

The reason that rangers have not seen tweaks to their class is because according to our investigation and data from other sources (including parses) there are rangers that are able to parse even with assassins. When their abilities are timed correctly, and standing in the correct range, rangers are a mighty force. Obviously gear and buffs play a factor as well. That isn’t to say that there will be no adjustments to rangers or mechanics that work differently for bows in the future.

 

EQ2Wire - Eleven Questions for Xelgad

Fixed

No, I have no doubt that mechanic fixes are coming for Ranged Flurry and/or Ranged AE Auto Attack. We were told those by Rothgar whom I've never known to give bad information. It might take forever (or in this case 6 months) but it typically happens or he posts and says what changed/why it can't happen.

But in the end all Ranged Flurry and Ranged AE Auto Attack are going to do is give us access to tools that every other scout and fighter has, closing that particular avenue of complaint. The core of the Ranger issues is actually much deeper (and deal a good bit with scaling issues and lagging CA's/excessive cast/reuse) and won't be fixed with these. But hey!, we're a pretty mighty force! Just not as mighty as Assassins, Warlocks and Wizards with less utility.

Edit: random spelling (though I bet I still missed some)

[irbi]

His answers is a full nonsense. I'm once again convinced that "this developers" nothing understand in this game.

[Krodos]

Nevao wrote:

Odysia@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Sydares wrote:

Xelgad wrote:

The reason that rangers have not seen tweaks to their class is because according to our investigation and data from other sources (including parses) there are rangers that are able to parse even with assassins. When their abilities are timed correctly, and standing in the correct range, rangers are a mighty force. Obviously gear and buffs play a factor as well. That isn’t to say that there will be no adjustments to rangers or mechanics that work differently for bows in the future.

 

EQ2Wire - Eleven Questions for Xelgad

Fixed

No, I have no doubt that mechanic fixes are coming for Ranged Flurry and/or Ranged AE Auto Attack. We were told those by Rothgar whom I've never known to give bad information. It might take forever (or in this case 6 months) but it typically happens or he posts and says what changed/why it can't happen.

But in the end all Ranged Flurry and Ranged AE Auto Attack are going to do is give us access to tools that every other scout and fighter has, closing that particular avenue of complaint. The core of the Ranger issues is actually much deeper (and deal a good bit with scaling issues and lagging CA's/excessive cast/reuse) and won't be fixed with these. But hey!, we're a pretty mighty force! Just not as might as Assassins, Warlocks and Wizards with less utility.

You forgot, Coercers, Necros, Conjys, Swashes, Brigs, SKs, Zerkers (those 2 in AOE fights.).. ahh well lets just say 75% of the classes. WITH less utility.. But hey it's just because we're not standing in the right place.

[Chanson]

Sydares wrote:

Xelgad wrote:

The reason that rangers have not seen tweaks to their class is because according to our investigation and data from other sources (including parses) there are rangers (the uber raid-geared ones) that are able to parse even with assassins (the casual legendary geared ones). When their abilities are timed correctly, and standing in the correct range, rangers are a mighty force. Obviously gear and buffs play a factor as well. That isn’t to say that there will be no adjustments to rangers or mechanics that work differently for bows in the future.

 

EQ2Wire - Eleven Questions for Xelgad

So, in case anyone was wondering, the most efficient betrayal is to Neriak, doing the spider quest repeatedly.

Seriously, why do you/we/any of us think they care? Yeah we don't like it, but how many people have really quit the game, vs. how many of us are just playing alts? They are still getting our money even if they don't fix it.

[Noob1974]

I give xelgad the benefit of a doubt  as  i find a very strange not making a statement on the official forum and using the "our data" argument.

I have a feeling that devs dont want to waste much time and resources on class balance and rather put the resources in the upcoming Velious Expansion. I would even go sofar that his statement is  reaction on that " Radio Silence on class balances" thread. It was said that class balances only happene in GUs and hes only saying therers is not much coming in GU57 like the last 10 GUs.........

Another thought is when they ever balanced classes in the past , SK's and Conjys comes to mind, they have overdone it and somehow they fear opd ranger.

The question is if he uses the PVP/BG/Solo Argument, because than although im not an advocate of nerfing other classes, nerf 5-10 classes (inlc. SK's and such) and judge all the same.

Thats the benefit of a doubt.

If hes for real, than hes one of the most ignorant persons i ever encountered, hiding behing his data while the player base can prove otherwise.

With a statement like this he single handly destroyed a class RAIDWISE !!!!!! No one in their right mind is leveling a ranger for high end purposes....

I would preferably have an explantion by smokejumper as to why ONE class gets blatlanty disadvantaged over the last years and the devs are ignorant to it.

[Laenai]

Dear Xelgad,

Nut up and roll a ranger. You just destroyed an entire class with that statement.

[Striikor]

Unbelievable!!!!

A: The reason that rangers have not seen tweaks to their class is because according to our investigation and data from other sources (including parses) there are rangers that are able to parse even with assassins. When their abilities are timed correctly, and standing in the correct range, rangers are a mighty force. Obviously gear and buffs play a factor as well. That isn’t to say that there will be no adjustments to rangers or mechanics that work differently for bows in the future 

What a [Removed for Content] joke, occasionally I too run across a ranger  (myself) in full raid gear, mastered out and in a group with a dirge troub coercer, warden and inquisitor who can compete with a badly equipped assassin who's in mastercrafted gear and Adept 1's, in the mage group. Hey Xelgad you know what? I see that happen too!

He even indicates that 'some' rangers can provide assassin like average parses, Though it says nothing about all Predators being lower on the DPS scale than mages.

Xelgad it should be proportional "less utility = more DPS" conversely "more utility = less DPS". Point to a class with less group/raid utility than a Ranger. Then show us how you are offsetting that lack that with our tremendous DPS. I will even accept ivory tower math. 

Easy to see that your view of class balance and that of the ranger community are vastly different. It is incredible that developers could be so absolutely clueless as to fail to understand that it is the ranger that is put in the Mage or group 4 not the assassin because EVERY OTHER 'DPS' has something to offer the group that they need.

It is incredible that developers could be so absolutely clueless as to fail to understand that it is not the assassin topping the parses it is the mages.

You say you play a Ranger, for what harvesting? How can you know so little about the reality? How can you understand so little about grouping logic.

SOE made DPS a commodity, you can get it anywhere now. Tanks and healers can do good to great DPS. Traditional utility classes compete with predator's for DPS.

Predators have to do TOP NOTCH DPS to be viable, PERIOD. Even you indicate that Rangers and assassins are not on par DPS wise (with your qualification of 'some' rangers) let alone in desired utility. And Predators in general are not parsing well against Mages.

Xelgad=Major Fail

Now how the heck to you spell death knell ?

UNBELIEVABLE!

[Nevao]

Noob1974 wrote:

I have a feeling that devs dont want to waste much time and resopurces on class balance and rather put the resources in the upcoming Velious Expansion. I would even go sofar that his statement is  reaction on that " Radio Silence on class balances" thread. It was said that class balances only happene in GUs and hes only saying therers is not much coming in GU57 like the last 10 GUs.........

Now that I've calmed down a bit I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this was the case. Velious and wanting to get the "New User" experience just right. If I had to make a serious guess as to what happened I would say that they probably pulled out the master design docs and said we're fairly balanced at the baseline and then looked and found that we do excel in certain areas (mostly solo and BGs). The problem is that the most significant amount of complaints and concern deal not with those areas but rather raiding. And when looking at raid balance you can find parses that prove anything you want if you look hard enough and isolate your sampling properly, especially if it's not something you wanted to do to begin with.

But it no longer matters. We have expressed our thoughts and concerns and a good number of the non ranger community (or at least the raiding aspect of it) agreed. A large number of our best players have either betrayed so they do more DPS with less work, switched to alts or just quit the game. The dev team is showing that they do not agree and/or simply do not care what we think. As long as that is the case nothing is going to get done and I'm afraid we're going have to wait until we are as broken or worse than Coercers and Summoners were before they can be bothered to take a real look and make adjustments. Better in the end that they spend time and make sure that fighters don't get confused by that taunt button at level 1.

[Magnethjelmen2]

WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHAT IS GOING ON?

How on earth can you pull this on us Xelgad? After so much time... Seriously? I will show you every single parse I have from the last 5 months I have.I will allways lose to an equal assassin in a raid. I CANT BELIVE  THIS! JESUS

Why do you think no endgame guilds are looking for rangers? It is a very simple answer. The assassin does more DPS and comes with a pretty nice hate transfer and apply poisons. Did you take a look at what other guilds are recruting here? I am talking endgame raidguilds.

Did you even compare our CA's?

1. assassin CA's does more dmg

2. assassin CA's you can cast faster

3. They even have more CA's than the ranger do.

HOW IS THAT BALANCED? Its so obvious it is not balanced WHAT so ever. [Removed for Content], I am starting to cry now

Go to your freaking CA database, and fix our CA's. It will take one of your devs 10 mins to fix it. How can it be so hard?

I will quote what one of your devs said a couple of months ago about people complaining about the 0m buff.

Fyreflyte wrote:

Rangers are not intended to be tanks. The fact that a bow with 0 range was put into the game as a bandaid for a larger class issue is unfortunate, but I'd rather fix the root of the problem than continue to perpetuate it. Nobody is removing your ability to use the mythical bow (which is still 0 range; I am not changing it). If you feel unable to function without a 0 min range bow, the mythical is still a perfectly viable option. The fact remains that rangers are intended to be a ranged class, and and we are going to make some changes that make this more viable than it has been. In the mean time, I am not creating any more 0 range bows. You have a number of abilities to help keep mobs at range; rangers were using these long before any 0 range bow was available.

Get your facts and communication togheter @SOE. You admitted that there was a prob. AND NOW YOU PULL THIS BS?

Oh yeah, and one more thing while we are at it here Xelgad. WHY, and I repeat WHY! Do you think 90% of the serious endgame rangers betrayed to Assassins? Think about it....

[crumpledmonkey]

troll here!!

what you need to do is get off the forums and learn to play your class.

rangers can and do out parse assasins with the same gear and aa on end raiding.

I do it all the time and the class is more fun to play.

so if you cant cut it then roll to easy mode assasin or LTP.

[Ranja]

thank you for letting me know I can cancel my sub.

[Chanson]

crumpledmonkey wrote:

troll here!!

what you need to do is get off the forums and learn to play your class.

rangers can and do out parse assasins with the same gear and aa on end raiding.

I do it all the time and the class is more fun to play.

so if you cant cut it then roll to easy mode assasin or LTP.

Please post some screenshots of your parses, I'm sure a lot of us would like to see them.

[Neiloch]

crumpledmonkey wrote:

what you need to do is get off the forums and learn to play your class.

rangers can and do out parse assasins with the same gear and aa on end raiding.

I do it all the time and the class is more fun to play.

so if you cant cut it then roll to easy mode assasin or LTP.

This is essentially what I see Xalgad saying. I doubt that was his actual intention but its what his statements seem like. Apparently people who have been complaining for literally years including 'above and beyond' players and contributors like Safana just have no idea how to actually play a ranger.

I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt and think he is talking from a 'on average' standpoint including casual and PvP type stuff. Or in the sense of 'good enough' since we are DPS class and aren't getting consistently beat by healers and some other classes in DPS. Even with that margin its still no where even close to correct for results rangers get on raids.

[Jaremai]

Amongst the angst in this thread I find it funny that some of you are expecting an answer.  As should be obvious by them answering to a third party and not to any threads on the official forums, their communication is lacking.

Accept that rangers won't change, accept that they won't answer you, and enjoy your life.  If that means betraying or quitting, so be it.. but yelling and screaming is only going to get you a sore throat.  Speak with your wallet.

Yes, I have a ranger, he was my first toon ever in both EQ and EQ2.. I love rangers.  Granted.. I don't play him anymore, but he's still on my account.

[Chanson]

Jaremai@Guk wrote:

Speak with your wallet.

The problem is that most people are just playing alts and not cancelling their accounts. There's been forum posts about there being just as many if not more Rangers at level 90 than Assassins. Does this make them equal? No. Does this show that they are still fun to play? I'd say so, it's the reason that I still keep mine around and play with him. They won't fix Rangers because they don't need to fix Rangers, as long as we still have our alts to play with.

Now if people really did start speaking with their wallet and cancelling their accounts because of the current state of Rangers, you can bet that they'd be getting fixed quickly. But that won't happen. Rangers will just become the alts we play when not playing our 'main' toons.

[Boise]

I just want to see this data. Post this data for us and prove us wrong. I want to see parses from rangers and assassins with equal gear, same groups, and equal stats.