Mage dps dead in bg

Blaidd · 06-26-2010, 10:10 PM

I am seeing less and less dps casters in the bg lately and only the chanters tend to stay around. Playing my Warlock in smugglers tonight I can see why. Against an equally geared player my Plaguebringer did a huge 638 damage after crits and freehand sorcery. This is a spell that usually hits for in excess of 60k against mobs with my gear and freehand cast.

Taking into account the post where resists max out at 75% and that pvp reduced the amount this is a joke for a warlocks hardest hitting spell to do so little. Scouts hit more than that autoattacking while running past.

Sony your so called fix after destroying mages in the bg in the 1st place appears to have gone and made them even worse. Please test damage equally next nerf ie taking into account casting time before the damage hits, inability to move while casting, interrupt chance if hit etc and then balace the damage from classes accordingly.

Taldier · 06-26-2010, 10:42 PM

and my attacks hits a good sorc for an average of "fails to inflict damage"

No one does alot of damage currently.

Only well geared preds and well geared mages can do any appreciable amount of burst dps to a fully geared out player. And as a fighter I'd much rather fight 3-4 scouts than a decent mage or two. But oh no, the guy in cloth armor takes damage when he is stabbed with sharpened metal.

This is honestly coming from a sorcerer? You have the same mit and damage absorbtion as a plate tank. Atleast let one of the credible mage classes complain.

Ralpmet · 06-26-2010, 10:50 PM

I love the huge range of my melee on my coercer, coupled with ae auto attack and a healthy appreciation for procs. I feel sorry for other mages,

Thankfully I don't have any flurry yet or this would be overly dangerous. [Removed for Content].

*edit: I love standing ontop of klak and just autoattacking away at the morons standing on the platform waiting for the relic. It's great fun for all.

ZeroHero · 06-26-2010, 10:51 PM

Its not entirely dead, but yes, with the resists and mitigation the way they are, mages are pretty [Removed for Content] relative to scouts.

Thats not to say that you can't do good mage DPS (sorcerers can) but the control effects, taunts, knockbacks etc do tend to make it hard to be a mage and do high dps -- you can still clean the clock of an unprepared player but you'll have a tough time even going to take down a crusader since their crit heals are probably 5x what your mitigated and reduced crit damage is. Forget about trying to take down a solo warden with good gear unless you have 5 or 6 people all with knockbacks to keep him off his feet.

The "pre-nerf" resists had a .6 multiplier built in which, in hindsight, perhaps should have been tuned and not eliminated. Even during the pre-nerf period, once people got their toughness gear on, spell damage was no where near it was before.

Since there's crit mit for pvp now, I'm all in favor of eliminating toughness as a mitigation stat, turn it into pvp potency instead.

It should not be hard to see that the flavor of the month builds favor crusaders and predators -- I fully expect to see some kind of assist to casters, but I can't say the form it will take. Can you find anyone willing to bring their summoner to battlegrounds anymore? (I for one, would just like to see some randomly exploding crusaders raining bits and pieces of armor down on the ground just because I'm so tired of that FOTM build).

I'd much rather see sane caps put on resists, mitigation, and damage reducers than continue the arms race by piling on even more armor effects. If one-size-fits-all doesn't work, you could limit resists & mitigation on archetypes differently -- ie (.7, .7) for tanks & healers, (.8, .5) for mages, (.5, .8) for scouts.

As a supplemental point, the spread between the well geared (champions+ gear) and the MC crowd is just way too enormous. This basically turns any n00b into a pinyata that drops no loot. Not really challenging, and certainly not very fun for the n00b.

Ballads · 06-28-2010, 09:23 AM

I dont feel [Removed for Content] nor do i see other mages as [Removed for Content]. Its not solo spiking whole teams down anymore, but i can still spike down almost any player including tanks and most healers. Assist spiking with a little CC works even better ,but to many want to play their own games instead of the team game( or they just don't know how.) Better gear (toughness) requires you to play better to win, it doesnt make players impossible to kill.

Wytie · 06-28-2010, 11:18 AM

I play a Lock too and the only time I feel [Removed for Content] is when the team I am fighting against has 2 healers and 3 tanks and the rest of the dps on my team sucks.

OR if the other team has some shamans lolz

Harbringer Doom · 06-28-2010, 11:36 AM

Ysbryd@Runnyeye wrote:

I am seeing less and less dps casters in the bg lately and only the chanters tend to stay around. Playing my Warlock in smugglers tonight I can see why. Against an equally geared player my Plaguebringer did a huge 638 damage after crits and freehand sorcery. This is a spell that usually hits for in excess of 60k against mobs with my gear and freehand cast.
Taking into account the post where resists max out at 75% and that pvp reduced the amount this is a joke for a warlocks hardest hitting spell to do so little. Scouts hit more than that autoattacking while running past.
Sony your so called fix after destroying mages in the bg in the 1st place appears to have gone and made them even worse. Please test damage equally next nerf ie taking into account casting time before the damage hits, inability to move while casting, interrupt chance if hit etc and then balace the damage from classes accordingly.

Post some of your Battleground parses, or better yet, post some ACT parses out in the world, so we can see what you're doing wrong.

I don't know if its your gear, your AA spec, or your technique, but I know that a warlock complaining about DPS in Battlegrounds is doing something wrong.

JimmyC01 · 06-28-2010, 12:49 PM

I'm not seeing this at all on my Warlock. I was just commenting to a friend the other day that it almost looks like they increased mage dps. My highest parse was 2.7 million...I wouldn't call that [Removed for Content] at all. My job as a warlock is to inflict mass damage on the entire group forcing the healers to make a decision on who to save. You must be doing something wrong if you're not getting the desired effect.

Blambil · 06-28-2010, 12:51 PM

just be glad you're not a summoner... no dps AND no survivability....

Thinwizzy · 06-28-2010, 01:33 PM

Having alot of total damage on the end score page does not mean someone did good dps. Alot of the times now it just means that few people died so all those ~500 hits added up to alot over the 15 minutes. There are too many people that think a high total damage = good dps, when alot of the time it is because of terrible dps that is easily healed back.

Striikor · 06-28-2010, 01:48 PM

Thinwizzy@Nagafen wrote:

Having alot of total damage on the end score page does not mean someone did good dps. Alot of the times now it just means that few people died so all those ~500 hits added up to alot over the 15 minutes. There are too many people that think a high total damage = good dps, when alot of the time it is because of terrible dps that is easily healed back.

Huh?

Wigg · 06-29-2010, 04:22 AM

Striikor@Nektulos wrote:

Thinwizzy@Nagafen wrote:
Having alot of total damage on the end score page does not mean someone did good dps. Alot of the times now it just means that few people died so all those ~500 hits added up to alot over the 15 minutes. There are too many people that think a high total damage = good dps, when alot of the time it is because of terrible dps that is easily healed back.
Huh?

I think he means he stayed alive and hit the guy constantly and they just healed. Thats what gave him high damage. If you are a warlock though complaining about too little damage. Let me give you a tip. Get gear, and fix the casting order. Not trying to be an *ss but it's true. Here is a few examples just over this morning and last night.

And here is a Ganak that I unfortionantly lost

Again, if you are having issues with damage, it's not a class problem.

Oh, and wanted to add, I am not from a PvP server and my gear is just a combination of T4 + BG gear.

Morgain · 06-29-2010, 04:49 AM

90 lock 227 aa, All MASTERS. not some all! most BG gear ( missing a few jewlery) still always get whooped in the parse from crap geared scouts even healers... perhaps i just dont know the uber casting order... i seen wizards do ok.. but thay can spike dps... warlock dots take time to do there damage.. but im usualy dead befor that gets to happen...

scouts will bypass all the hard kills and go straight for mages... stunn/stif/flry/dbl attk = not able to cast = dead= no dps

i know i know.... summoners have it worse.... so stop whining... if ya dont like it roll a SK.rang or something..

i have a 90 rang and hes has crap gear 1 pice bg and 173aa... no masters only a3... and i almost always parse #1-3 with him (unless i get a super uber group members).... his survivability is great compared to my lock...

bolth should be t1 dps...but my poorly equiped ranger waxes my well equiped lock any day...

06-28-2010, 11:18 AM	#6
Wytie Mouse Betrayer! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,579	I play a Lock too and the only time I feel [Removed for Content] is when the team I am fighting against has 2 healers and 3 tanks and the rest of the dps on my team sucks. OR if the other team has some shamans lolz __________________

06-28-2010, 11:36 AM	#7
Harbringer Doom Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 669	Ysbryd@Runnyeye wrote: I am seeing less and less dps casters in the bg lately and only the chanters tend to stay around. Playing my Warlock in smugglers tonight I can see why. Against an equally geared player my Plaguebringer did a huge 638 damage after crits and freehand sorcery. This is a spell that usually hits for in excess of 60k against mobs with my gear and freehand cast. Taking into account the post where resists max out at 75% and that pvp reduced the amount this is a joke for a warlocks hardest hitting spell to do so little. Scouts hit more than that autoattacking while running past. Sony your so called fix after destroying mages in the bg in the 1st place appears to have gone and made them even worse. Please test damage equally next nerf ie taking into account casting time before the damage hits, inability to move while casting, interrupt chance if hit etc and then balace the damage from classes accordingly. Post some of your Battleground parses, or better yet, post some ACT parses out in the world, so we can see what you're doing wrong. I don't know if its your gear, your AA spec, or your technique, but I know that a warlock complaining about DPS in Battlegrounds is doing something wrong.

06-28-2010, 01:48 PM	#11
Striikor Server: Nektulos Guild: Purgatory Rank: Raid Team Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 480	Thinwizzy@Nagafen wrote: Having alot of total damage on the end score page does not mean someone did good dps. Alot of the times now it just means that few people died so all those ~500 hits added up to alot over the 15 minutes. There are too many people that think a high total damage = good dps, when alot of the time it is because of terrible dps that is easily healed back. Huh? __________________ “The thirst for equality can express itself either as a desire to draw everyone down to one's level, or to raise oneself and everyone else up.” Friedrich Nietzsche “There are two tragedies in life. One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it.” George Bernard Shaw

06-29-2010, 04:22 AM	#12
Wigg Server: Butcherblock Guild: The Chosen Rank: Gladiator Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 463	Striikor@Nektulos wrote: Thinwizzy@Nagafen wrote: Having alot of total damage on the end score page does not mean someone did good dps. Alot of the times now it just means that few people died so all those ~500 hits added up to alot over the 15 minutes. There are too many people that think a high total damage = good dps, when alot of the time it is because of terrible dps that is easily healed back. Huh? I think he means he stayed alive and hit the guy constantly and they just healed. Thats what gave him high damage. If you are a warlock though complaining about too little damage. Let me give you a tip. Get gear, and fix the casting order. Not trying to be an *ss but it's true. Here is a few examples just over this morning and last night. And here is a Ganak that I unfortionantly lost Again, if you are having issues with damage, it's not a class problem. Oh, and wanted to add, I am not from a PvP server and my gear is just a combination of T4 + BG gear.

06-26-2010, 10:10 PM	#1
Blaidd Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 132	I am seeing less and less dps casters in the bg lately and only the chanters tend to stay around. Playing my Warlock in smugglers tonight I can see why. Against an equally geared player my Plaguebringer did a huge 638 damage after crits and freehand sorcery. This is a spell that usually hits for in excess of 60k against mobs with my gear and freehand cast. Taking into account the post where resists max out at 75% and that pvp reduced the amount this is a joke for a warlocks hardest hitting spell to do so little. Scouts hit more than that autoattacking while running past. Sony your so called fix after destroying mages in the bg in the 1st place appears to have gone and made them even worse. Please test damage equally next nerf ie taking into account casting time before the damage hits, inability to move while casting, interrupt chance if hit etc and then balace the damage from classes accordingly. __________________ Ysbryd 90th lvl Wizard Anifail 90th lvl Warden. Canlyn 90th lvl Brigand Angau 90th lvl ShadowKnight of Runnyeye Heresy 90th Defiler Jorrack 90th lvl Conjuror Ularth 90th lvl Beserker Clefyd 80th lvl Coercer Member of Last of the Valheru

06-26-2010, 10:42 PM	#2
Taldier Server: Venekor Guild: Opus Dei Rank: Officer Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,071	and my attacks hits a good sorc for an average of "fails to inflict damage" No one does alot of damage currently. Only well geared preds and well geared mages can do any appreciable amount of burst dps to a fully geared out player. And as a fighter I'd much rather fight 3-4 scouts than a decent mage or two. But oh no, the guy in cloth armor takes damage when he is stabbed with sharpened metal. This is honestly coming from a sorcerer? You have the same mit and damage absorbtion as a plate tank. Atleast let one of the credible mage classes complain.

06-26-2010, 10:50 PM	#3
Ralpmet Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 779	I love the huge range of my melee on my coercer, coupled with ae auto attack and a healthy appreciation for procs. I feel sorry for other mages, Thankfully I don't have any flurry yet or this would be overly dangerous. [Removed for Content]. *edit: I love standing ontop of klak and just autoattacking away at the morons standing on the platform waiting for the relic. It's great fun for all.

06-26-2010, 10:51 PM	#4
ZeroHero Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	Its not entirely dead, but yes, with the resists and mitigation the way they are, mages are pretty [Removed for Content] relative to scouts. Thats not to say that you can't do good mage DPS (sorcerers can) but the control effects, taunts, knockbacks etc do tend to make it hard to be a mage and do high dps -- you can still clean the clock of an unprepared player but you'll have a tough time even going to take down a crusader since their crit heals are probably 5x what your mitigated and reduced crit damage is. Forget about trying to take down a solo warden with good gear unless you have 5 or 6 people all with knockbacks to keep him off his feet. The "pre-nerf" resists had a .6 multiplier built in which, in hindsight, perhaps should have been tuned and not eliminated. Even during the pre-nerf period, once people got their toughness gear on, spell damage was no where near it was before. Since there's crit mit for pvp now, I'm all in favor of eliminating toughness as a mitigation stat, turn it into pvp potency instead. It should not be hard to see that the flavor of the month builds favor crusaders and predators -- I fully expect to see some kind of assist to casters, but I can't say the form it will take. Can you find anyone willing to bring their summoner to battlegrounds anymore? (I for one, would just like to see some randomly exploding crusaders raining bits and pieces of armor down on the ground just because I'm so tired of that FOTM build). I'd much rather see sane caps put on resists, mitigation, and damage reducers than continue the arms race by piling on even more armor effects. If one-size-fits-all doesn't work, you could limit resists & mitigation on archetypes differently -- ie (.7, .7) for tanks & healers, (.8, .5) for mages, (.5, .8) for scouts. As a supplemental point, the spread between the well geared (champions+ gear) and the MC crowd is just way too enormous. This basically turns any n00b into a pinyata that drops no loot. Not really challenging, and certainly not very fun for the n00b.

06-28-2010, 09:23 AM	#5
Ballads Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 264	I dont feel [Removed for Content] nor do i see other mages as [Removed for Content]. Its not solo spiking whole teams down anymore, but i can still spike down almost any player including tanks and most healers. Assist spiking with a little CC works even better ,but to many want to play their own games instead of the team game( or they just don't know how.) Better gear (toughness) requires you to play better to win, it doesnt make players impossible to kill.

06-28-2010, 12:49 PM	#8
JimmyC01 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 63	I'm not seeing this at all on my Warlock. I was just commenting to a friend the other day that it almost looks like they increased mage dps. My highest parse was 2.7 million...I wouldn't call that [Removed for Content] at all. My job as a warlock is to inflict mass damage on the entire group forcing the healers to make a decision on who to save. You must be doing something wrong if you're not getting the desired effect.

06-28-2010, 12:51 PM	#9
Blambil Server: Nagafen Guild: Truculent Brew Rank: Legati {Mains} Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 500	just be glad you're not a summoner... no dps AND no survivability....

06-28-2010, 01:33 PM	#10
Thinwizzy Server: Nagafen Guild: The Mayor of Majdul Rank: the rapture is coming no rapture for u Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 304	Having alot of total damage on the end score page does not mean someone did good dps. Alot of the times now it just means that few people died so all those ~500 hits added up to alot over the 15 minutes. There are too many people that think a high total damage = good dps, when alot of the time it is because of terrible dps that is easily healed back.

06-29-2010, 04:49 AM	#13
Morgain Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10	90 lock 227 aa, All MASTERS. not some all! most BG gear ( missing a few jewlery) still always get whooped in the parse from crap geared scouts even healers... perhaps i just dont know the uber casting order... i seen wizards do ok.. but thay can spike dps... warlock dots take time to do there damage.. but im usualy dead befor that gets to happen... scouts will bypass all the hard kills and go straight for mages... stunn/stif/flry/dbl attk = not able to cast = dead= no dps i know i know.... summoners have it worse.... so stop whining... if ya dont like it roll a SK.rang or something.. i have a 90 rang and hes has crap gear 1 pice bg and 173aa... no masters only a3... and i almost always parse #1-3 with him (unless i get a super uber group members).... his survivability is great compared to my lock... bolth should be t1 dps...but my poorly equiped ranger waxes my well equiped lock any day...