My business is just fine, thank you! >.<

[CorpseGoddess]

I am irritated the merchants, banker and broker in New Halas don't want my business as a bruiser.  Gorowyn amenities are available to those of good alignment.  Can we Naughties get the same courtesy from the Halas ones, please?

[Katz]

+1

[SilverMoth]

how do you get a necro over to halas? id like to try to start there..

[Jrral]

Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.

[CorpseGoddess]

Jrral@Unrest wrote:

Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.

It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.

[Bratface]

Streppoch@Guk wrote:

Jrral@Unrest wrote:

Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.

It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.

You are correct.

Halas is supposed to be good-neutral, the balance to Gorowyn that is evil-neutral.

Kelethin is good and the balance is Neriak, Qeynos is good and the balance is freeport.

I had really hoped to move our T1 GH from NQ to Halas so that the members could use merchants, RA's, etc that we don't have in the GH. NQ is very convenient for Good aligned but for evils it's a hassle having to go back to EFP to do a collection turn in, so Halas made sense as a location for a GH for us, the evils and goodies could just use the RA and whatever in Halas.

The collection NPC will speak to evil, at least my little Bruiser had no trouble doing a turn in, but the RA won't take to her neither will the banker or the broker, I don't know about the chrono yet because I haven't taken a high enough toon there to check yet.

Hopefully they will fix this so that it is the same as Gorowyn, as it was meant to be. Then I can move the GH there and have much more convenience at hand instead of having to run toons to many different zones.

[Barx]

Bratface wrote:

Streppoch@Guk wrote:

Jrral@Unrest wrote:

Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.

It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.

You are correct.

Halas is supposed to be good-neutral, the balance to Gorowyn that is evil-neutral.

Kelethin is good and the balance is Neriak, Qeynos is good and the balance is freeport.

I had really hoped to move our T1 GH from NQ to Halas so that the members could use merchants, RA's, etc that we don't have in the GH. NQ is very convenient for Good aligned but for evils it's a hassle having to go back to EFP to do a collection turn in, so Halas made sense as a location for a GH for us, the evils and goodies could just use the RA and whatever in Halas.

The collection NPC will speak to evil, at least my little Bruiser had no trouble doing a turn in, but the RA won't take to her neither will the banker or the broker, I don't know about the chrono yet because I haven't taken a high enough toon there to check yet.

Hopefully they will fix this so that it is the same as Gorowyn, as it was meant to be. Then I can move the GH there and have much more convenience at hand instead of having to run toons to many different zones.

Kelethin is already good-neutral (and the balance to Gorowyn). New Halas is mostly good-neutral, so the fact an evil player can go there at all and not be KoS should be considered a plus (since it leaves 2 non-KoS good cities for evil folks, while good folks only have 1 non-KoS evil city).

[Ksaun]

Kelethin is not a neutral city and merchants wont do bussiness will evil side, and if you dont think there is kill on sight try wandering up around where the queen is with an evil toon.

[hempick]

Bratface wrote:

Streppoch@Guk wrote:

Jrral@Unrest wrote:

Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.

It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.

You are correct.

Halas is supposed to be good-neutral, the balance to Gorowyn that is evil-neutral.

Kelethin is good and the balance is Neriak, Qeynos is good and the balance is freeport.

I had really hoped to move our T1 GH from NQ to Halas so that the members could use merchants, RA's, etc that we don't have in the GH. NQ is very convenient for Good aligned but for evils it's a hassle having to go back to EFP to do a collection turn in, so Halas made sense as a location for a GH for us, the evils and goodies could just use the RA and whatever in Halas.

The collection NPC will speak to evil, at least my little Bruiser had no trouble doing a turn in, but the RA won't take to her neither will the banker or the broker, I don't know about the chrono yet because I haven't taken a high enough toon there to check yet.

Hopefully they will fix this so that it is the same as Gorowyn, as it was meant to be. Then I can move the GH there and have much more convenience at hand instead of having to run toons to many different zones.

I feel the opposite.  Before the travel revamp, I preferred being in a Qeynos based guild as an evil character because it eliminated a lot of traveling for me.  Kind of moot now, though.

Also @ the previous poster, Kelethin is not good-neutral.  At least not the last time I was there a few weeks ago.  I was KoS.

[Rocc]

There should be a faction quest.

+1

[Bratface]

Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Kelethin is already good-neutral (and the balance to Gorowyn). New Halas is mostly good-neutral, so the fact an evil player can go there at all and not be KoS should be considered a plus (since it leaves 2 non-KoS good cities for evil folks, while good folks only have 1 non-KoS evil city).

Actually no, when EoF launched Kelethin was just like Neriak is now, totally not evil friendly or even tolerant.

They toned Kelethin down a bit, well a lot actually, because evils were having an very rough time enjoying the new EoF content since they could not get HQ updates and other things in Kelethin. They had to travel (when it really sucked to travel in EoF) back to an evil city to take care of "business".

Either way they are still not neutral, just adjusted a bit in Kelethin to accommodate the players' needs at the time.

[CorpseGoddess]

Come on, Halas.  You *know* you want my copper.  My alts are good for it, I promise.

[CorpseGoddess]

Any response from the merchants of New Halas?  It's the weekend, I just got my paycheck, and those andirons are lookin' pretty sweet.  Come on, NH merchants!  I'm practically THROWING my coins at you!

[Bratface]

I did a little checking on my toons, both evil and good.

The bell shows my goodies Kelethin, Gorowyn and Halas but not Neriak. Because kelethin is good and Gorowyn and Halas are neutral, Neriak is evil of course.

The Bell shows my Evils Neriak, Gorowyn and Halas. Because Neriak is evil and Gorowyn and Halas are neutral. My evil does not see Kelethin on the bell map.

I took my goody to Gorowyn and tried the merchants there, they all spoke to her and did business with her, even the bank and the broker. The exception was the Chrono tasker, he would not speak to her at all even though she has max faction with the Chrono people, the Chrono merchant and the Timeless Chronomage would talk to her though. 

There were no KoS guard in Gorowyn to my goody.

I took my evil to Halas and the only NPC that would talk to her was the collection NPC and the Chrono merchant and Timeless Chronomage, she cannot use the bank or broker or just about any other NPC there, unlike my goodies experience in Gorowyn where she could do just about anything.

I wish a dev would take a look at the factions here, I would love to move the GH to Halas but not if it won't function like Gorowyn and let both alignments do business there. I'd move to Gorowyn but I just don't like the city, I would prefer Halas.

[CorpseGoddess]

Bratface wrote:

I did a little checking on my toons, both evil and good.

The bell shows my goodies Kelethin, Gorowyn and Halas but not Neriak. Because kelethin is good and Gorowyn and Halas are neutral, Neriak is evil of course.

The Bell shows my Evils Neriak, Gorowyn and Halas. Because Neriak is evil and Gorowyn and Halas are neutral. My evil does not see Kelethin on the bell map.

I took my goody to Gorowyn and tried the merchants there, they all spoke to her and did business with her, even the bank and the broker. The exception was the Chrono tasker, he would not speak to her at all even though she has max faction with the Chrono people, the Chrono merchant and the Timeless Chronomage would talk to her though. 

There were no KoS guard in Gorowyn to my goody.

I took my evil to Halas and the only NPC that would talk to her was the collection NPC and the Chrono merchant and Timeless Chronomage, she cannot use the bank or broker or just about any other NPC there, unlike my goodies experience in Gorowyn where she could do just about anything.

I wish a dev would take a look at the factions here, I would love to move the GH to Halas but not if it won't function like Gorowyn and let both alignments do business there. I'd move to Gorowyn but I just don't like the city, I would prefer Halas.

Exactly.  And that's why I'm trying to keep this thread alive...I'd love some feedback from the devs on this obvious imbalance.

[Kaitheel]

Heyya!

I am sorry that you have been confused by the services you have found available within the city of New Halas in Frostfang Sea.

I examined this issue over the weekend and found the following:• Evil, good and exiled can participate in all of the quests throughout the zone of Frostfang Sea and found within the city of New Halas, with the exception of city writs.• Evil, good and exiled can use the menders, merchants and bankers found at the quest hubs throughout the zone of Frostfang Sea.• Good can use the bankers, menders and brokers within the city of New Halas.• Good can obtain city writs.• Good can purchase New Halas housing.• Good can use the merchants inside the city to buy New Halas specific house objects and armor pieces.• Evil, good and exiled can get all of the same New Halas specific armor piece appearances through questing in the zone.

With that in mind I have made the following changes.  I do not know when these changes will hit the live servers, but they are coming!  You should see them noted in the update notes:

Zone - Frostfang Sea• Good aligned players who auto-mentor should now be able to receive all of the level 10-70 New Halas city writs.• Cordt Metalpatcher, the mender at White Lodge, is now available to everyone, despite their citizenship.• Agrim MacTosh, the new broker at White Lodge, is available to everyone, despite their citizenship.• Helfreck Lundgren, the new Housing Goods merchant at Erollis Dock, is available to everyone, despite their citizenship.

By the way, I'm glad that you continued to keep this post alive, but I might suggest that next time you choose a more specific title.  I know I would have noticed it much sooner if it had "New Halas" somewhere.  Just something to keep in mind.

~Kaitheel

*Edited due to fun with forums.

[Malacha]

I don't think that's enough Kaith. Halas needs to operate just like Gorowyn. While evil cannot have residence there, and cannot pick up writs, or use the chrono tasker, they should be able to use every single other NPC in the city. The Coldain dwarves of olde (EQ1) did not refuse services to certain races, they only refused based on your faction. Barbarians in EQ2 are a neutral race. There is no reason that the whole city shouldn't be available to every alignment, aside from residence and the writs that go with that.

[NamaeZero]

Can we apply the same to Neriak? Fair is fair, and if you're going to open good cities up more or less completely to evils, it doesn't make sense to give people so much trouble when they want to see a friends home in Neriak.

Freeport and Qeynos are getting so friendly lately, what with Queen Antonia trying to rescue Lucan, and Mithaniel Marr opening up a city that tolerates his sworn enemies... can we eventually stop having to do betray quests to switch alignments? I can't see why there's so much bad blood at the lowest ranks, but everything is so peaceful at the top. It would also be nice, because it would open up some interesting options as far as Gods. A templar of Anashti Sul could be fun, or an Inquisitor of Mithaniel Marr would follow the whole all races/ all classes paradigm nicely.

[Rijacki]

Kaitheel wrote:

• Evil, good and exiled can get all of the same New Halas specific armor piece appearances through questing in the zone.

Not true! A good can buy both the light and the heavy armor from the armor seller for use as appearance items. An evil can only get either heavy or light (depending on class) through questing in the zone. The other one is 100% unavailable to an evil.

Since I am more interested in the vest piece and pants (with hope the graphic on that model's cloth pants actually gets fixed some day) for my mage, I would like the ability to buy it without having to pay Station Cash for a re-coloured version.

[CorpseGoddess]

Malachani wrote:

I don't think that's enough Kaith. Halas needs to operate just like Gorowyn. While evil cannot have residence there, and cannot pick up writs, or use the chrono tasker, they should be able to use every single other NPC in the city. The Coldain dwarves of olde (EQ1) did not refuse services to certain races, they only refused based on your faction. Barbarians in EQ2 are a neutral race. There is no reason that the whole city shouldn't be available to every alignment, aside from residence and the writs that go with that.

Exactly this.  I want New Halas to operate under exactly the same ruleset as Gorowyn.  Which means that when my main bruiser uses the crafting stations in my monk's house, I should be able to zone out, buy mats from the broker and then get stuff out of the bank.  If you want to attract traffic to the shiny new zone, this is the only way to go.  If you want people to not use it as much and "settle" for Gorowyn and then grumble about it, leave things as they are.

And sorry about the thread title, Kaitheel.  I was trying to be witty and eye-catching; it never occured to my brain to, you know, actually make it INFORMATIVE as well. 

[Katz]

Bratface wrote:

Streppoch@Guk wrote:

Jrral@Unrest wrote:

Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.

It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.

You are correct.

Halas is supposed to be good-neutral, the balance to Gorowyn that is evil-neutral.

Kelethin is good and the balance is Neriak, Qeynos is good and the balance is freeport.

I had really hoped to move our T1 GH from NQ to Halas so that the members could use merchants, RA's, etc that we don't have in the GH. NQ is very convenient for Good aligned but for evils it's a hassle having to go back to EFP to do a collection turn in, so Halas made sense as a location for a GH for us, the evils and goodies could just use the RA and whatever in Halas.

The collection NPC will speak to evil, at least my little Bruiser had no trouble doing a turn in, but the RA won't take to her neither will the banker or the broker, I don't know about the chrono yet because I haven't taken a high enough toon there to check yet.

Hopefully they will fix this so that it is the same as Gorowyn, as it was meant to be. Then I can move the GH there and have much more convenience at hand instead of having to run toons to many different zones.

We have our guild hall in Gorowyn for the exact reason that every npc there will deal with good and evil toons.  I really wish they would make Halas this way.  Also I wish they would add Tier 2 guild halls in the outlying towns.

[DuneWarrior]

Kaitheel wrote:

Heyya!

I am sorry that you have been confused by the services you have found available within the city of New Halas in Frostfang Sea.

[lots of stuff about what good/evil/exiled can and cant do, without addressing the OP's question]

Your missing the point Kaitheel. The question is why arent Halas - which is considered Neutral/good - working EXACTLY the same way as Gorowyn - which is considered Neutral/Evil?

What people is asking you is for evil/exiled toons to have access to amenities INSIDE halas, just like they do inside Gorowyn, which would make alot of sense compared to now where the structure between towns and even starting areas!!! 

If new halas is supposed to be like this, by design, then at least admit that AND make Gorowyn reflect that change in aligence as well, ie force the scrubby PALADINS out of gorowyn just like the SK's are forced out of New Halas.

I have to admit, the logic making New Halas good only factional wise just makes no sense to me..

[Bratface]

Zaktull@Najena wrote:

Kaitheel wrote:

Heyya!

I am sorry that you have been confused by the services you have found available within the city of New Halas in Frostfang Sea.

[lots of stuff about what good/evil/exiled can and cant do, without addressing the OP's question]

Your missing the point Kaitheel. The question is why arent Halas - which is considered Neutral/good - working EXACTLY the same way as Gorowyn - which is considered Neutral/Evil?

What people is asking you is for evil/exiled toons to have access to amenities INSIDE halas, just like they do inside Gorowyn, which would make alot of sense compared to now where the structure between towns and even starting areas!!! 

If new halas is supposed to be like this, by design, then at least admit that AND make Gorowyn reflect that change in aligence as well, ie force the scrubby PALADINS out of gorowyn just like the SK's are forced out of New Halas.

I have to admit, the logic making New Halas good only factional wise just makes no sense to me..

+1

This is exactly the issue and it gets completely ignored.

Why isn't New Halas the same as Gorowyn? If it is meant ot be different then PLEASE for the love of god tell us how all the towns are supposed to work because I *thought* I understood how they were set but if Halas is different than Gorowyn then I am at a loss.

Qeynos and Kelethin = Good

Freeport and Neriak = Evil

Gorowyn = Evil/Neutral

New Halas = Good/Neutral

Maj'Dul = It's own faction altogether.

This is how most of us thought the cities worked, if it is different then I, and many others, would appreciate an official clarification on the factions and relations of every city just so we are clear about it.

At the very least I would like to know why Halas doesn't function as Gorowyn does, why can't evils use the banker/broker/etc in the city?

So far the only place for a guild to go is Gorowyn if they are small and have members of both alignments. Why is that?

And yeah, since we are marginalizing Q and FP can we get some T2 Guild Halls in more zones please!

[KerowynnKaotic]

Malachani wrote:

I don't think that's enough Kaith. Halas needs to operate just like Gorowyn. While evil cannot have residence there, and cannot pick up writs, or use the chrono tasker, they should be able to use every single other NPC in the city. The Coldain dwarves of olde (EQ1) did not refuse services to certain races, they only refused based on your faction. Barbarians in EQ2 are a neutral race. There is no reason that the whole city shouldn't be available to every alignment, aside from residence and the writs that go with that.

Just as a thought but Mith. Marr is rather good and so was his Sister, who was killed by an evil plot ..

So .. my guess is He would seriously frown on the new citzens of New Halas being too welcoming to Evil races. 

Personally, as long as the city doesn't try to murder my "misunderstood" alts and I can do the quests & pick up a few toys along the way .. I'm fine with it.  There are menders, bankers & whatnot that evils can use in the zone, just not within the city itself.

[Bratface]

Yeah I am sure that Atrebe Sathir is just fine with goodies running all over Gorowyn with his evil creations....

Deities should have anything to do with this since all along as far as I heard NH was supposed to be good-neutral, and as such it should be like Gorowyn is in it's evil/neutral glory.

Halas being different from Gorowyn in the way it treats the opposite faction is just stupid, it leaves many of us stuck with Gorowyn as  the ONLY option for a GH.

[KerowynnKaotic]

Bratface wrote:

Yeah I am sure that Atrebe Sathir is just fine with goodies running all over Gorowyn with his evil creations....

Deities should have anything to do with this since all along as far as I heard NH was supposed to be good-neutral, and as such it should be like Gorowyn is in it's evil/neutral glory.

Halas being different from Gorowyn in the way it treats the opposite faction is just stupid, it leaves many of us stuck with Gorowyn as  the ONLY option for a GH.

I'll admit it's been a while since I've ran through the Gorowyn quests but from what I remember, the Sarnaks were pretty much at odds with their original creator and were trying to find their own way in the world, so they were pretty much thumbing their noses at their creator. 

To that end they are willing to tolerate Goodies in their city. That's why Gorowyn is more 'neutral' than any other town.

Or, at least that is the Lore behind the idea.  Truthfully, the Lore behind the New Halas really should mean that New Halas citizens should be chasing down the Evils like the soon to be dead dogs they are ...

But, since no one in Halas will be running after the Evils with pitchforks (much less Epic *4 lvl 95 guards) Evils can use the Guild Hall there as long as it was purchased by a Goodie, which is still a better option that Neriak, Freeport & Qeynos for the alternative alignments, if you don't like Gorowyn.  Kelethin is pretty much the same but its even more remote than Gorowyn.

And, considering most Guild halls have access to Bankers, Menders & Junk Salers .. still not sure what the problem is.

[Bratface]

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

 .. still not sure what the problem is.

I see that....

[KerowynnKaotic]

Bratface wrote:

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

 .. still not sure what the problem is.

I see that....

  .. guessing you don't either.

[Bratface]

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

Bratface wrote:

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

 .. still not sure what the problem is.

I see that....

  .. guessing you don't either.

That is such a fail comeback, of course I know what the problems are here, I am writing about them, not playing the deity card to make up an excuse for why things are unbalanced. An excuse btw that has never been hinted at in the slightest by anyone, dev or player.

If you don't understand what the differences are and how they are unbalanced then please don't try to add nonsense to the discussion.

Valid questions are being asked here about something that is very important to many of us who had hoped to move a GH to Halas, I understand that you don't get it, but the rest of us do and would like to continue on with a rational conversation that doesn't include making up excuses for things.

[Katz]

Kelethin is not like Gorowyn.  Kelethin npc's will not deal with evil toons.  Gorowyn npc's will deal with evil and good toons.  So no, Kelethin is not an equal alternative to Gorowyn.