BG Armor should be upgradeable

[Dekedar]

It cost a lot of tokens to get the original BG armor, in the 600 ball park. The new BG armor is better and has adorn slots and only costs 680 tokens, that isn't much more. I feel jipped having spent so much time getting tokens to buy the outdated armor. It seems to me there should be an upgrade route for people with the first tier of BG armor to buy the 2nd tier for a peice of T1 BG armor and 20 tokens x2 types of tokens. The upgrades right now only cost 10 more tokens (x2) than the original. Had it been implemented originally no one would take the T1 because it isn't that much more work for the T2.

Here I am with this T1 BG armor and it's like being at ground zero, I have to start all over again, and once I get the T2 set, I'll never touch the T1 set again making it such a waste of time and effort.

[Shiirr]

Welcome to PvP gear.

[Jarlomandius]

I'm in the same boat, they badly need a tier 1 trade in guy where you get some of those tokens back or get credit towards the updated pvp armor.

[Draag]

I agree - what they have done is just a kick in the teeth.

[EQer]

I was really surprised there was no token upgrade options.  I have half a set of gear that took alot of effort to obtain that was made obsolete way too quickly.  A big disappointment.

[EQIIer]

BG gear should be upgradeable at a reduced cost.

[Cantor]

Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:

It cost a lot of tokens to get the original BG armor, in the 600 ball park. The new BG armor is better and has adorn slots and only costs 680 tokens, that isn't much more. I feel jipped having spent so much time getting tokens to buy the outdated armor. It seems to me there should be an upgrade route for people with the first tier of BG armor to buy the 2nd tier for a peice of T1 BG armor and 20 tokens x2 types of tokens. The upgrades right now only cost 10 more tokens (x2) than the original. Had it been implemented originally no one would take the T1 because it isn't that much more work for the T2.

Here I am with this T1 BG armor and it's like being at ground zero, I have to start all over again, and once I get the T2 set, I'll never touch the T1 set again making it such a waste of time and effort.

Olihin response: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478033

[bks6721]

Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:

It cost a lot of tokens to get the original BG armor, in the 600 ball park. The new BG armor is better and has adorn slots and only costs 680 tokens, that isn't much more. I feel jipped having spent so much time getting tokens to buy the outdated armor. It seems to me there should be an upgrade route for people with the first tier of BG armor to buy the 2nd tier for a peice of T1 BG armor and 20 tokens x2 types of tokens. The upgrades right now only cost 10 more tokens (x2) than the original. Had it been implemented originally no one would take the T1 because it isn't that much more work for the T2.

Here I am with this T1 BG armor and it's like being at ground zero, I have to start all over again, and once I get the T2 set, I'll never touch the T1 set again making it such a waste of time and effort.

when you finally get your T2 set.... that's about the time T3 will arrive.   They've even called the new set the Season 1 armor.. so it stands to reason that season 2 will have a new set as well.

[Shiirr]

Draagun wrote:

I agree - what they have done is just a kick in the teeth.

How is it a kick in the teeth?  That's the way it's been on PvP servers forever.  New trumps old, so you start over with the gear grind.

[Yimway]

Given how rapidly you are rewarded, they have to keed adding new carrots so you have reasons to keep playing it.

It's not a hard concept really.

[Grumble69]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Given how rapidly you are rewarded, they have to keed adding new carrots so you have reasons to keep playing it.

It's not a hard concept really.

That has nothing to do with the point.  It can be upgradeable and still be a carrot.  Progression is way more fun as a game mechanic.

[Eritius]

If you've ever gotten honor buy or arena buy gear in WoW, this concept of starting from the beginning when newer gear comes out shouldn't be an alien concept.

[Dekedar]

Shiirr@Blackburrow wrote:

Draagun wrote:

I agree - what they have done is just a kick in the teeth.

How is it a kick in the teeth?  That's the way it's been on PvP servers forever.  New trumps old, so you start over with the gear grind.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but there are only 2 PvP servers and there are MANY more PvE servers. Also, that dev response doesn't address this issue. He's just stating T1 BG armor doesn't have blue adorns, I know that, the question is why can't we have an upgrade system or a buy back where we get some tokens in return, but what makes most sense is an upgrade system because we're already used to it since TSO and shard armor.

[Yimway]

Grumble69 wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Given how rapidly you are rewarded, they have to keed adding new carrots so you have reasons to keep playing it.

It's not a hard concept really.

That has nothing to do with the point.  It can be upgradeable and still be a carrot.  Progression is way more fun as a game mechanic.

The bolded part is why it has to do with the point.

It doesn't take very long to get a full set of the old stuff, it wont take long to get a full set of the new stuff.  Having trade-up shortcuts would make it even more rapid and not give you enough reason to keep playing between gear updates.

[Shiirr]

Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:

Shiirr@Blackburrow wrote:

Draagun wrote:

I agree - what they have done is just a kick in the teeth.

How is it a kick in the teeth?  That's the way it's been on PvP servers forever.  New trumps old, so you start over with the gear grind.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but there are only 2 PvP servers and there are MANY more PvE servers. Also, that dev response doesn't address this issue. He's just stating T1 BG armor doesn't have blue adorns, I know that, the question is why can't we have an upgrade system or a buy back where we get some tokens in return, but what makes most sense is an upgrade system because we're already used to it since TSO and shard armor.

I understand the point.  Second account, I haven't reactivated my first one, which I rolled on Nagafen day one.  Before PvP gear.  PvP gear which was promised to only be available on PvP servers.  Here's the funny part, though, as PvE'ers can level to max AP's, PvP in BG's in gear that wasn't earned on a PvP server end-game where it's open PvP, and can level up without PvPing.  I'm playing on a blue server with some friends, and getting back into the saddle again, but the difference between levelling blue & levelling red is still night & day. 

That aside, clarify "some".  Because PvP brings out the ugly in people.  You might say "some" is a trivial amount, maybe 10% of the original cost, and figure "Well, it beats transmuting it".  The next guy would demand 20%, as a mere 10% is insulting, a mere token gesture.  Within two more pages you'd have half a dozen crying that their guild is quitting en-masse if we don't get a 90% return on all those tokens, because we worked so hard (despite people farming the crap out of Lavastorm to the point where even Katsuo was a Master).  And the thread would be locked.

[snowzeh]

Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:

If you've ever gotten honor buy or arena buy gear in WoW, this concept of starting from the beginning when newer gear comes out shouldn't be an alien concept.

I don't play Wow.I play Eq2. I would not have spent my BG tokens on gear that would be obsolete in a month,had I known about it.

[Stubbswick]

snowzeh wrote:

I don't play Wow.I play Eq2. I would not have spent my BG tokens on gear that would be obsolete in a month,had I known about it.

It's been on test for almost a month.  There have been ongoing discussions about it on the forums.

I'm guessing part of what motivates the decision is to keep people playing Battlegrounds.  The people who really care about Battlegrounds will be happy to keep playing to get the better armor (and in the meantime, they'll already have their old armor which is pretty beefy).  The people who just want it for appearances, or for fabled-quality gear outside of Battlegrounds... well they're going to have to suck it up and go back to grinding Battlegrounds.

Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but there are only 2 PvP servers and there are MANY more PvE servers. Also, that dev response doesn't address this issue. He's just stating T1 BG armor doesn't have blue adorns, I know that, the question is why can't we have an upgrade system or a buy back where we get some tokens in return, but what makes most sense is an upgrade system because we're already used to it since TSO and shard armor.

TSO shard gear had a whole upgrade system, but I think that's been pretty much the only expansion that has.  The SF legendary gear you buy in Paineel can't be upgraded in Moonfield - if you want more, you gotta buy it.  There's only a few pieces of SF raid gear that can be upgraded, and if you get a new piece of raid armor from say hardmode, you don't get to upgrade adorns and such.

Some people loved the TSO armor system, some people hated it.  But based on the direction armor has gone in SF, I don't think you can argue that upgrading armor sets is the "norm" of EQ2.  In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think they went back and changed TSO armor to not require upgrades (at least WoE stuff).

[Jonaroth]

snowzeh wrote:

Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:

If you've ever gotten honor buy or arena buy gear in WoW, this concept of starting from the beginning when newer gear comes out shouldn't be an alien concept.

I don't play Wow.I play Eq2. I would not have spent my BG tokens on gear that would be obsolete in a month,had I known about it.

/agree

If I had known it was going to be obsolete I never would have bothered with it. Now I don't know If I'll do BGs again if my armor is just going to be obsolete again in a month... That stuff was hard to get, I worked hard for it, dozens of hours of PVP just to get some obsolete gear. lame.

[Corydonn]

The gear is to reward those that continiously play the Battlegrounds. I've already got enough tokens to get the Season 2 and perhaps even Season 3 armor.

[Dekedar]

I'd be content with a 50% return. I'd be happy with 75%-80%. This isn't just a return on my tokens, it's a return on my investment of time, which went from valueable with my T1 gear to worthless with T2 gear coming out. Literally I could not have possibly had a worse outcome for my investment.

It's just, why even off this armor anymore for sale? Because it doesn't make any sense to buy the T1 armor ever again. It's only 10 more tokens (x2) which is an insignifacnt amount compared to the total, like I pointed out before, T1 armor is around 600 total tokens, T2 is 680, who in their right mind would ever get T1. And frankly, it's too much work to use for appearance armor imo, I would never spend that much time. Someone said it doesn't take much time to get a full set of armor, it takes a ton of time. Lets say you avg 2 tokens per game, you need 340 games, at 10-15 minutes per game you are looking at 56-85 hours of time spent in BG. That's a lot of time.

I guess my point is that people don't enjoy putting time in to things to have them turn out useless. I thought the new lead dev said he wanted to make the game as enjoyable as possible for as many as possible. Well I'm not enjoying this idea, and I don't feel like I'm sitting here asking for free BG armor or anything overly unreasonable. I would just like some sort of return on my time, and as with any investment, the bigger the return the happier I'll be. I mean, who are you going to get to invest in something by telling them their future outlook on the investment is whatever they invest x 0. The only reason myself and so many others did invest in T1 armor was SoE failed to let us know about their plans to negate all the work we'd put into this effort. And "It's been on test for x amount of time" is not a valid argument because not everyone plays on test or has the chance to see all these updates before they are implemented, had I known about this earlier you can bet I would have brought it up, but I didn't, so here it is now.

[Lethe5683]

Why not add a merchant to allow you to sell your old bg armor for half the tokens you paid for it?

[Dreadpatch]

I guess I'm mildly annoyed that I spent a bunch of time getting gear that was effective for about a month. I could probably get passed that if I didn't have to fight for more tokens in the same 3 tired zones/maps with the same three tired game types. Maybe add some different game types in the existing zones/maps or add some maps. Spend less time trying to upgrade gear a tiny bit and shift that effort in giving us some new playing content FTW!!!!!

[Eritius]

snowzeh wrote:

Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:

If you've ever gotten honor buy or arena buy gear in WoW, this concept of starting from the beginning when newer gear comes out shouldn't be an alien concept.

I don't play Wow.I play Eq2. I would not have spent my BG tokens on gear that would be obsolete in a month,had I known about it.

Its called progression. Thats a mechanic thats been around since 1999. Oh wait you play EQ2 not EQ1 even though they carried that idea over.

Its just like PVE. When you kill a raid boss it drops gear, equip that gear and go kill a harder boss for better loot. Now replace raid boss with other players. Just be glad you started when you did and you're not starting from the beginning with no BG gear vs Tier 2 or in the future players with Tier 3 BG gear.

[Draag]

Progression is one thing... this is something different.

The problem is that it was too soon.  If it had been 6months, people would still baulk, but maybe the "progression" argument might hold a little more water.

This is just a .... poor move on their part.

[Superiorxgodz]

I agree with Dekedar. The gear we have earned should not go to waste. It will just make people unmotivated to get the next season gear if they know that in a little while, the newer gear is going to come out and they can buy that instead of waste their toekns now.

[Draag]

And who knows how long it will be?? Next week?  2 Months? 6months?

Hard to make a plan with 0 communication.  Like a previous poster said, if I had known better stuff was gonna be out so soon, I would have not spent my tokens.  That's why its a kick in the teeth.

[Valdar]

Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:

Its just like PVE. When you kill a raid boss it drops gear, equip that gear and go kill a harder boss for better loot. Now replace raid boss with other players. Just be glad you started when you did and you're not starting from the beginning with no BG gear vs Tier 2 or in the future players with Tier 3 BG gear.

No.

This would be like getting a full set of VP gear, only to have a new set released once you finally have it, so you can go back to farming the same zone over and over for slightly better gear.

If we get a new season set in 3 months again I am seriously done with gearing through BG's. Better off going back to raiding and playing the odd BG match as just the thought of another 100 smugglers den matches makes me sick..

[StaticLex]

This was a classic screwjob by SOE.  I tolerate expansions making raid gear obsolete because they happen once every 1-2 YEARS.  I look at my BG gear now and it's inferior after 2 [Removed for Content] MONTHS.

Oh well, at least I've learned the lesson early on I guess.  If anyone thought it was like pulling teeth to get me into a Smuggler's Den to farm up one set of gear.. now that I know anything I farm will be garbage in a few months I can almost guarantee you'll never see me in that zone again.

[crunn]

What a remarkable shambles this is. Did they not think this through? Not realise this would simply anger everyone?

Definitly needs an upgrade system.

Classic soe, come up with a stupid idea then blinkerd run with it despite everyone saying no that wont work.

I'm fairly annoyed with the whole BG set up anyway but this T2 gear so soon for almost the same price as the T1, the price drop in T1 right after i bought it. So many long hours grinding BG over the months just to be made obsolite with no warning (unless you play or read test server and dont mind the spoilers)

Its like SOE are trying to sabotage BG. with one little update they managed to anger and irritate almost everyone.

Well I finished my T1 set looking forward to start upgrading it to T2 (TSO style trade in) but now i see it was all for nothing. I've not been back into BG since im so annoyed and i might not go back at all.

What next? another month or two they put in T3 and make it all pointless and obsolite again, then T4 and so on. I for one dont have infinite time to endlessly grind tokens for items that will be worthless by the time i have enough.

It has all turned throw-away consumerism. Its giving a bad message. The reason for the current global finacial disaster is being embraced, celebrated and taught to our children by SOE. (i might be pressing the point a little far there but it is true)

[Yimway]

Guys, pvp is not the carebear easymode of progression that pve is in this game.

Its designed to reward those that put in the most effort, and little is done for 'the little guy' trying to keep up on 10% of the same time invested.

You grind out new tokens/sets each time they are released, thats the game.  If you don't like that game or feel like you can't keep up, then your best sticking to PVE.