Sword and Board or Dual Wield?

Sigbjo · 05-22-2010, 02:29 PM

I just started a Dirge (level 13 right now), and I'm working on my early AAs. I've seen differing advice about where to go with these. Right now I'm in the Agility line, but I've heard a lot of people recommend the Stamina line for Double Attacks. Of course, then I have to equip a round shield. but do all the Double Attacks make up for the loss of the second weapon? Thanks.

FrostDragon · 05-22-2010, 08:26 PM

Solo I would Sword and board IF YOU CAN FILL MOST THE STAMINA TREE the DA and stun and higher defence should help.

Group dual weild attack if you dont plan on getting hit. or to support tnk with stuns and shield stick with board.

raiding shield are useless

after lvl 80 there is only 1 shield in game for so sword and board is broken per Design and DEV

silkness · 05-23-2010, 12:33 AM

ive never ever used a shield

Darkelfelin · 05-24-2010, 02:43 AM

Except MAYBE for some solo situations, using a shield as a dirge can be, I think, considered as a major FAIL

Terrible loss of DPS, and not that much of a survivability gain in exchange.

You will lose the "benefits" from the 8 first AAs in that line by not wearing a shield, thats right. But thats no big deal, the 10 points after that are extremely good. And the more melee players in your group, the more useful it will be.

Auto-attack damages are by far the biggest source of dps of any non-mage (and even for most healers), so everything that applies to auto-attack should be considered with great interest, first goal probably being 100% crit chance then 100% double attack chance

So for early AAs I'd go for the last AA in 4th column (+7,5% crit chance) and 10 points in Fortissimo (3rd column).

You might want to look at AAs for our two lifetaps in the dirge tree (middle right column) and "Chain links" in second line of Shadow tree asap SMILEY

Kulaf · 05-26-2010, 12:19 PM

Well since you are level 13 I wouldn't worry about trying to cap any stat (crit, DA, whatever) as it's just not going to happen. If you plan to primarily solo then yeah I would go sword and board. If you are going to group I would go dual wield.

Raahl · 05-27-2010, 01:46 PM

So the concensus is that Dual Wield is better DPS wise than Sword and Board with Maxed out Double Attack because of the STA line?

Kulaf · 05-27-2010, 05:48 PM

So much so that the Devs didn't bother to create any raid droped Round Shields in SF.

Klive · 05-27-2010, 05:57 PM

I carried a roundshield for a couple of levels. But I soon just transmuted it. I don't have any trouble just dual wielding. I tanked Crypt of Valdoon and Obelisk of Blight last night with a coercer and a warden. Was spur of the moment so no shield and we did fine. Only the warden died a couple of times and I rezzed him between my autoattacks.

Raahl · 05-28-2010, 12:32 AM

Just as a test I went S&B against a training dummy only hitting CoB when it came up and then tried the same Dual Wielding with CoB. Just auto attack.

Using this method, dual wield did beat out S&B by about 15% on auto attack alone.

Guess I need to take a look at the STA line and reduce the DA ability. Right now I have 10/10 in it. If I'm going dual wield there's no point in maxing it out.

Kulaf · 05-28-2010, 05:47 PM

Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield?

Raahl · 06-04-2010, 12:07 PM

Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote:

Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield?

It's the one that requires a round shield.

Nowhere near the caps, still working on getting my T3 shard armor. Mostly level 70-79 crappy equipment as far as bonuses.

FrostDragon · 06-04-2010, 04:25 PM

Yes Dual wield is more DPS but lower avoidance which dirges normally have much lower then scout classes. I run sword and board for the defence and off set the lower DPS with DA I have managed to go head to head with fighter classes in battlegrounds with blocking shard jewelry and t1 t2 mix with our debuffs and AAs. the board helps also to stop the AOE melee flurry attacks

Aery_Blue · 06-07-2010, 03:04 PM

Raahl wrote:

Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote:
Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield?
It's the one that requires a round shield.

Perhaps I missed something but it sounds as if you are referring to Fortissimo which to the best of my knowledge works on dual wield as well as sword and board. It not only gives you up to an extra 10% DA but everyone else in your group as well.

Darkelfelin · 06-10-2010, 07:07 AM

Aery_Blue wrote:

Raahl wrote:
Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote:
Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield?
It's the one that requires a round shield.
Perhaps I missed something but it sounds as if you are referring to Fortissimo which to the best of my knowledge works on dual wield as well as sword and board. It not only gives you up to an extra 10% DA but everyone else in your group as well.

No he doesnt. He refers to the AA prior to Fortissimo, which gives you DA bonus when you wear a roundshield.

Every dirge should have 4-10 in the 3rd column

EDIT : 4-4-10 was what I meant

Raahl · 06-15-2010, 10:34 AM

Yerazankha@Storms wrote:

Aery_Blue wrote:
Raahl wrote:
Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote:
Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield?
It's the one that requires a round shield.
Perhaps I missed something but it sounds as if you are referring to Fortissimo which to the best of my knowledge works on dual wield as well as sword and board. It not only gives you up to an extra 10% DA but everyone else in your group as well.
No he doesnt. He refers to the AA prior to Fortissimo, which gives you DA bonus when you wear a roundshield.
Every dirge should have 4-10 in the 3rd column
EDIT : 4-4-10 was what I meant

Yea that's what I ended up going to (4-4-10). I was at 4-10-10

kell_the_kyuss · 07-08-2010, 03:17 AM

shields are for selling....

Raahl · 07-15-2010, 10:31 AM

kell_the_kyuss wrote:

shields are for selling....

Since changing to the new AA spec I have yet to use my shield. It's working out very well just to dual wield. But I admit I'm not trying to solo heroics. SMILEY

Roast22 · 07-19-2010, 06:07 AM

I've been playing a dirge for about 3 months now, level 70 with 101 AA's

I've found while soloing that sword and board is useful. I'm able to cope with adds better and solo harder content, however this is with 4 10 10 in Sta line not to mention that when kiting duel wield does nothing for you as your fighting at ranged anyway. That said, if you are raiding or grouping on a regular basis duel wield is the way to go double attack does not make up the loss of the second weapon. Your doing the right thing buy doing AGI line first as you really need to max AA's in Sta line (4 - 10 - 10) before you get the benifit from them, then respec from agi to Sta when you have enough AA's to do so and start working on the Agi line again if you choose to go this route.

If you are still undecided then go duel wield, you can't really go wrong with it and sword and board is a very specalised setup and really only for soloing.

Gladiolus · 07-19-2010, 08:46 AM

Dual wield weapons are no longer different to one-handed ones, so carry two weapons and shield, switch between them whenever you feel you might gain from it, and find the answer that suits you.

Kazoth · 09-06-2011, 08:04 AM

May be a old thread but do you still require a shield for the 2'de line in stamina? At work right now but i seem to remember it giving me DA without it?

BixxbyIndestructible · 09-06-2011, 12:03 PM

Nope, no shield required. Also the thing to have now seems like is a big bow. Got 1-78 this weekend with new ridiculous gear mostly killing everything at ranged. Great fun.

05-23-2010, 12:33 AM	#3
silkness Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14	ive never ever used a shield __________________ My avatar tells who I am...

05-24-2010, 02:43 AM	#4
Darkelfelin Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 103	Except MAYBE for some solo situations, using a shield as a dirge can be, I think, considered as a major FAIL Terrible loss of DPS, and not that much of a survivability gain in exchange. You will lose the "benefits" from the 8 first AAs in that line by not wearing a shield, thats right. But thats no big deal, the 10 points after that are extremely good. And the more melee players in your group, the more useful it will be. Auto-attack damages are by far the biggest source of dps of any non-mage (and even for most healers), so everything that applies to auto-attack should be considered with great interest, first goal probably being 100% crit chance then 100% double attack chance So for early AAs I'd go for the last AA in 4th column (+7,5% crit chance) and 10 points in Fortissimo (3rd column). You might want to look at AAs for our two lifetaps in the dirge tree (middle right column) and "Chain links" in second line of Shadow tree asap __________________ Elyria - Yerazankha Les HÃ©ritiers d'Illendar

05-26-2010, 12:19 PM	#5
Kulaf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 387	Well since you are level 13 I wouldn't worry about trying to cap any stat (crit, DA, whatever) as it's just not going to happen. If you plan to primarily solo then yeah I would go sword and board. If you are going to group I would go dual wield. __________________

05-27-2010, 01:46 PM	#6
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	So the concensus is that Dual Wield is better DPS wise than Sword and Board with Maxed out Double Attack because of the STA line? __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

05-27-2010, 05:48 PM	#7
Kulaf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 387	So much so that the Devs didn't bother to create any raid droped Round Shields in SF. __________________

05-22-2010, 02:29 PM	#1
Sigbjo General Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2	I just started a Dirge (level 13 right now), and I'm working on my early AAs. I've seen differing advice about where to go with these. Right now I'm in the Agility line, but I've heard a lot of people recommend the Stamina line for Double Attacks. Of course, then I have to equip a round shield. but do all the Double Attacks make up for the loss of the second weapon? Thanks.

05-22-2010, 08:26 PM	#2
FrostDragon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	Solo I would Sword and board IF YOU CAN FILL MOST THE STAMINA TREE the DA and stun and higher defence should help. Group dual weild attack if you dont plan on getting hit. or to support tnk with stuns and shield stick with board. raiding shield are useless after lvl 80 there is only 1 shield in game for so sword and board is broken per Design and DEV

05-27-2010, 05:57 PM	#8
Klive Server: Mistmoore Guild: Mistmoore Eternal Knights Rank: Commander Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 396	I carried a roundshield for a couple of levels. But I soon just transmuted it. I don't have any trouble just dual wielding. I tanked Crypt of Valdoon and Obelisk of Blight last night with a coercer and a warden. Was spur of the moment so no shield and we did fine. Only the warden died a couple of times and I rezzed him between my autoattacks. __________________

05-28-2010, 12:32 AM	#9
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	Just as a test I went S&B against a training dummy only hitting CoB when it came up and then tried the same Dual Wielding with CoB. Just auto attack. Using this method, dual wield did beat out S&B by about 15% on auto attack alone. Guess I need to take a look at the STA line and reduce the DA ability. Right now I have 10/10 in it. If I'm going dual wield there's no point in maxing it out. __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

05-28-2010, 05:47 PM	#10
Kulaf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 387	Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield? __________________

06-04-2010, 12:07 PM	#11
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote: Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield? It's the one that requires a round shield. Nowhere near the caps, still working on getting my T3 shard armor. Mostly level 70-79 crappy equipment as far as bonuses. __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

06-04-2010, 04:25 PM	#12
FrostDragon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	Yes Dual wield is more DPS but lower avoidance which dirges normally have much lower then scout classes. I run sword and board for the defence and off set the lower DPS with DA I have managed to go head to head with fighter classes in battlegrounds with blocking shard jewelry and t1 t2 mix with our debuffs and AAs. the board helps also to stop the AOE melee flurry attacks

06-07-2010, 03:04 PM	#13
Aery_Blue Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4	Raahl wrote: Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote: Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield? It's the one that requires a round shield. Perhaps I missed something but it sounds as if you are referring to Fortissimo which to the best of my knowledge works on dual wield as well as sword and board. It not only gives you up to an extra 10% DA but everyone else in your group as well.

06-10-2010, 07:07 AM	#14
Darkelfelin Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 103	Aery_Blue wrote: Raahl wrote: Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote: Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield? It's the one that requires a round shield. Perhaps I missed something but it sounds as if you are referring to Fortissimo which to the best of my knowledge works on dual wield as well as sword and board. It not only gives you up to an extra 10% DA but everyone else in your group as well. No he doesnt. He refers to the AA prior to Fortissimo, which gives you DA bonus when you wear a roundshield. Every dirge should have 4-10 in the 3rd column EDIT : 4-4-10 was what I meant __________________ Elyria - Yerazankha Les HÃ©ritiers d'Illendar

06-15-2010, 10:34 AM	#15
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	Yerazankha@Storms wrote: Aery_Blue wrote: Raahl wrote: Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote: Just curious why you would want to lower DA in your AA setup based on using two weapons vs. one? Are you over capped on DA right now? Or is that AA ability you are referring to require a Round Shield? It's the one that requires a round shield. Perhaps I missed something but it sounds as if you are referring to Fortissimo which to the best of my knowledge works on dual wield as well as sword and board. It not only gives you up to an extra 10% DA but everyone else in your group as well. No he doesnt. He refers to the AA prior to Fortissimo, which gives you DA bonus when you wear a roundshield. Every dirge should have 4-10 in the 3rd column EDIT : 4-4-10 was what I meant Yea that's what I ended up going to (4-4-10). I was at 4-10-10 __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

07-08-2010, 03:17 AM	#16
kell_the_kyuss Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southern Hellinois Posts: 45	shields are for selling.... __________________ Enoch De'Bloodflower 63 Gnome Fury Cheshire Cat, 61 Kerra Dirge Arcane Insurrection of Unrest

07-15-2010, 10:31 AM	#17
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	kell_the_kyuss wrote: shields are for selling.... Since changing to the new AA spec I have yet to use my shield. It's working out very well just to dual wield. But I admit I'm not trying to solo heroics. __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

07-19-2010, 06:07 AM	#18
Roast22 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	I've been playing a dirge for about 3 months now, level 70 with 101 AA's I've found while soloing that sword and board is useful. I'm able to cope with adds better and solo harder content, however this is with 4 10 10 in Sta line not to mention that when kiting duel wield does nothing for you as your fighting at ranged anyway. That said, if you are raiding or grouping on a regular basis duel wield is the way to go double attack does not make up the loss of the second weapon. Your doing the right thing buy doing AGI line first as you really need to max AA's in Sta line (4 - 10 - 10) before you get the benifit from them, then respec from agi to Sta when you have enough AA's to do so and start working on the Agi line again if you choose to go this route. If you are still undecided then go duel wield, you can't really go wrong with it and sword and board is a very specalised setup and really only for soloing.

07-19-2010, 08:46 AM	#19
Gladiolus Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 873	Dual wield weapons are no longer different to one-handed ones, so carry two weapons and shield, switch between them whenever you feel you might gain from it, and find the answer that suits you.

09-06-2011, 08:04 AM	#20
Kazoth Server: Antonia Bayle Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5	May be a old thread but do you still require a shield for the 2'de line in stamina? At work right now but i seem to remember it giving me DA without it?

09-06-2011, 12:03 PM	#21
BixxbyIndestructible Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 30	Nope, no shield required. Also the thing to have now seems like is a big bow. Got 1-78 this weekend with new ridiculous gear mostly killing everything at ranged. Great fun.