Most wanted posters - fail

[Dorsan]

Hello,

  While the idea of most wanted posters was great, the unability to use them while engaged in PvP combat is less so. If a group is fighting off hordes of zergers, they will get only 1 writ done, while the zergers are able to get new writ every time they die. Why is dieing or running away a requirement of getting a new writ?

Thanks,

[Notsovilepriest]

Because zerging isn't PvP

[Dorsan]

Zerging is dieing in PvP combat then rushing back into the same fight while the opponents are continuously engaged. The most wanted posters do reward the zergers. The problem is that they do not reward players who are actually winning a long battle.

[Notsovilepriest]

Your feeding the zerg by being there though.

[Dorsan]

Either way the requirement of dieing or leaving combat in order to get a new writ is a bad idea. I don't see why should people be rewarded for dieing by being able to get a new writ. In fact death should remove a charge from the poster instead. And they shouldn't be usable under rez sickness. That would be good idea. But the requirement of not being engaged in PvP combat is just silly.

[Chulanowa]

Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:

Either way the requirement of dieing or leaving combat in order to get a new writ is a bad idea. I don't see why should people be rewarded for dieing by being able to get a new writ. In fact death should remove a charge from the poster instead. And they shouldn't be usable under rez sickness. That would be good idea. But the requirement of not being engaged in PvP combat is just silly.

There is so much fail in those ideas that I don't even know where to begin.

Having to not be engaged in PvP combat is a minor inconveniance. But your ideas? Holy moly.

[Dorsan]

My ideas were: 1) Death removes a charge from the poster. 2) Posters are not usable under rez sickness. If you really think those are bad ideas it can only mean that you like the fact that there are 0 penalties for PvP deaths and that you like to get a new writ during rez sickness then kick a badger... And if that is so we honestly have nothing to speak about.

[Paikis]

Ssofa@Nagafen wrote:

Your feeding the zerg by being there though.

So you've never gone to KP then?

[Notsovilepriest]

Very Rarely, Mainly only on my way to JW when I want to check for questers at highton and that area.

The few times I do go there, Its with a pretty solid group and tend to kill the "PvP" in the KPs.

[ntommyb]

Its a matter of opinion what pvping is.  If you're tough enough to stay alive for a long time aganist someone who's revive zerging, you're not doing anything wrong.  Revive zerging is cheating not killing someone near a revive point.  It was dumb for me last night when our tank finelly said, lets just die we need writs...

[TheVekk]

Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:

My ideas were: 1) Death removes a charge from the poster. 2) Posters are not usable under rez sickness. If you really think those are bad ideas it can only mean that you like the fact that there are 0 penalties for PvP deaths and that you like to get a new writ during rez sickness then kick a badger... And if that is so we honestly have nothing to speak about.

i think its a bad idea becuse all this will do is make more People come on the forums and QQ about pvp even more

they told use about this poster system a while back  everyone loved that fact they where doing this now that its out everyone is complaing (not that im supprised) , poor soe they never will make people happy i suppose

[Zexybeast]

TheVekk wrote:

Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:

My ideas were: 1) Death removes a charge from the poster. 2) Posters are not usable under rez sickness. If you really think those are bad ideas it can only mean that you like the fact that there are 0 penalties for PvP deaths and that you like to get a new writ during rez sickness then kick a badger... And if that is so we honestly have nothing to speak about.

i think its a bad idea becuse all this will do is make more People come on the forums and QQ about pvp even more

they told use about this poster system a while back  everyone loved that fact they where doing this now that its out everyone is complaing (not that im supprised) , poor soe they never will make people happy i suppose

I like it. I also like Olihin.

[Ahlana]

Zexybeast wrote:

I like it. I also like Olihin.

+!

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

These need to be enabled for usage while engaged in PvP. Without PvP-enabled utilization, this supports the solo type of zerging that everyone despises, and that scouts excel at due to their tracking (especially with people now needing all their group members disengaged to respawn).

[Kram337]

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

These need to be enabled for usage while engaged in PvP. Without PvP-enabled utilization, this supports the solo type of zerging that everyone despises, and that scouts excel at due to their tracking (especially with people now needing all their group members disengaged to respawn).

That is the exact purpose of these posters. To STOP the stupid zergfest where players can get fully pvp geared in a matter of days just by standing in the right place casting aoe's. It's completely ridiculous and defeats the purpose of pvp.

Making these posters not castable during pvp is an AWESOME idea. This means you can stay and keep on zerging like you are and recieve the reward for your "hard work" or you can move on after you get your kills and do pvp as it was intended.

The root of the issue is that people want to pvp but they can't find any places to fight other groups because every dungeon in the game is an instance. Which is helping to destroy pvp. This coming expansion will help allivate that since it'll come with much more contested content. Meaning you'll find your pvp out in the wild like they intended.

If SOE doesn't stop the zergfest then they simply need to make the pvp rewards harder to get. Perhaps they can reward the difficulty of the kill (as some people have suggested multiple times) instead of the number of kills.

[Dorsan]

Kram337, it is obvious to me that you have no idea what zerging is. Standing in the sea of enemy playesr without dying is not zergin. Dying and rezzing and breaking immunity to rejoin a fight that you already lost is zerging. And if you are in fact zerging then you can easily get a new writ every time you die.

[Chia_Pet]

Erm yer wrong, it benefits the zergers not the real PvPr's. its plain to see. you die, you can update the writ, run back in, rinse repeat.

Meanwhile a good group of say onyx, who fights for 30 minutes straight cant get but one writ update because they havent died and been in constant battle the whole time.

it does take a genius to figure this out.

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Kram337 wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

These need to be enabled for usage while engaged in PvP. Without PvP-enabled utilization, this supports the solo type of zerging that everyone despises, and that scouts excel at due to their tracking (especially with people now needing all their group members disengaged to respawn).

That is the exact purpose of these posters. To STOP the stupid zergfest where players can get fully pvp geared in a matter of days just by standing in the right place casting aoe's. It's completely ridiculous and defeats the purpose of pvp.

Making these posters not castable during pvp is an AWESOME idea. This means you can stay and keep on zerging like you are and recieve the reward for your "hard work" or you can move on after you get your kills and do pvp as it was intended.

The root of the issue is that people want to pvp but they can't find any places to fight other groups because every dungeon in the game is an instance. Which is helping to destroy pvp. This coming expansion will help allivate that since it'll come with much more contested content. Meaning you'll find your pvp out in the wild like they intended.

If SOE doesn't stop the zergfest then they simply need to make the pvp rewards harder to get. Perhaps they can reward the difficulty of the kill (as some people have suggested multiple times) instead of the number of kills.

...? Yeah, but the point is that, in their current state, the posters support the zerg fest because being solo is more beneficial than being grouped if you want to complete writs at maximum efficiency, as you can die or run away at your leisure to fill your personal token needs. In a group, you can often become the backbone of your faction's strength in sustained battles, in which case running away or dying isn't a sound option unless you want to splinter the current formidable stand yo' peoples were making.

Making these posters not castable during PvP is extremely FAR FROM an awesome idea, for the aforementioned reasons that I, the OP, and others have spoken of.

[Arieneth]

the OP inadvertantly made an excellent point. the issue is not whether or not the poster can be used in pvp combat. the issue is that this poster change was (i assume) put in as an effort to stop the zerg. if there was no zerg, you wouldn't be locked in combat for an hour. obviously this new poster thing it didn't anything...big surprise, the system is still broken.

the entire writ/poster/token system is a complete f'ing mess. go back to status. make recent unlimited and players drop off the list on the time basis as is already in place. whatever, i don't care. just quit with the bullsht coverups and FIX the main problem.

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Arieneth wrote:

the OP inadvertantly made an excellent point. the issue is not whether or not the poster can be used in pvp combat. the issue is that this poster change was (i assume) put in as an effort to stop the zerg. if there was no zerg, you wouldn't be locked in combat for an hour. obviously this new poster thing it didn't anything...big surprise, the system is still broken.

the entire writ/poster/token system is a complete f'ing mess. go back to status. make recent unlimited and players drop off the list on the time basis as is already in place. whatever, i don't care. just quit with the bullsht coverups and FIX the main problem.

The inclusion of posters with charges and the removal of PvP writ agents from overland zones helps relieve the zerg, as congested spots are no longer supported with distinct purpose. People can lobby their factions to boycott areas and move elsewhere (though the success or likelihood of that...is surely...low). Regardless, zerging is supported in the current state restricting usage while engaged, because then being solo and dying is rewarded, which is bad (given such conduct being considered zerging).

Your suggestion is flawed because people would organize duels for easy PvP status and it'd just be another lame grind. Being able to obtain tokens while engaging contested PvP objectives with encounter size limits throughout the perimeter of the goal region is how you disperse and inject greater strategy and purpose to combat, beyond the current "whoever can bash more heads against the other faction, wins".

Other additions were already mentioned by myself (I ironically advised the same thing without even reading Orthureon's post, lol) and Orthureon in the following posts:

Re:Can I get an official response from you SOE?

Re:Re:OK seriously, what were you thinking????

Re:Closing the 'Gear Gap'

The above threads I'm sure you've read, and those posts you seem to have ignored with irrelevant bias against the token system that promotes group PvP over what was the dominant, solo, scout-based token farmer in the past.

[Ahlana]

Arieneth wrote:

i don't care. just quit with the bullsht coverups and FIX the main problem.

The main problem is the players mentality pure and simple. They can't fix that. Ohilin can make changes til blue in the face and players will find a way around them. Moving the writ giver and going to the Most Wanted Posters was a good idea. It is the players that still managed to mess it up by still gathering in KP and zerging the hell out of each other.

SOE can not fix stupid and should not be responsible to.

[Wilde_Night]

Ahlana wrote:

SOE can not fix stupid and should not be responsible to.

Best quote of the day!!

[Arieneth]

Ahlana wrote:

Arieneth wrote:

i don't care. just quit with the bullsht coverups and FIX the main problem.

The main problem is the players mentality pure and simple. They can't fix that. Ohilin can make changes til blue in the face and players will find a way around them. Moving the writ giver and going to the Most Wanted Posters was a good idea. It is the players that still managed to mess it up by still gathering in KP and zerging the hell out of each other.

SOE can not fix stupid and should not be responsible to.

no...they can't fix stupid. but they DO have the responsibility to offer a higher quality of play for the people that pay them. that means designing a system that is harder to abuse, or not worth abusing at all. the token system will always be abused because it's so easy. the poster idea may have been a good idea on paper...but Olihin appears to lack the foresight that the veterans of eq2 pvp have. many of us knew this wouldn't work...and look, it didn't.

[Fin]

 Yes, please make them useable in combat. Ive had zergathons go on for 30 minutes and would be upset if I couldnt update my writ. You could with the writ giver. Is it castable off your hotbar? I havent had time to go out since the change.

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Finks@Nagafen wrote:

 Yes, please make them useable in combat. Ive had zergathons go on for 30 minutes and would be upset if I couldnt update my writ. You could with the writ giver.

/agree

I've totally been in the same predicament.

[Ahlana]

Arieneth wrote:

Ahlana wrote:

Arieneth wrote:

i don't care. just quit with the bullsht coverups and FIX the main problem.

The main problem is the players mentality pure and simple. They can't fix that. Ohilin can make changes til blue in the face and players will find a way around them. Moving the writ giver and going to the Most Wanted Posters was a good idea. It is the players that still managed to mess it up by still gathering in KP and zerging the hell out of each other.

SOE can not fix stupid and should not be responsible to.

no...they can't fix stupid. but they DO have the responsibility to offer a higher quality of play for the people that pay them. that means designing a system that is harder to abuse, or not worth abusing at all. the token system will always be abused because it's so easy. the poster idea may have been a good idea on paper...but Olihin appears to lack the foresight that the veterans of eq2 pvp have. many of us knew this wouldn't work...and look, it didn't.

How though? I am sure he is open to ideas. The Most Wanted Posters came around mostly from those that wanted the writ giver to go away from Open World Zones.

So the question is how do you make the Zergfest stop. No PVP Gear? That would certainly work.. Making Items cost statues instead of Tokens would not stop it. You would still get status from zerging. Heck you can turn in items, do HQ, TS writs, anything for status.

You could make a new PVP Status I suppose, but I doubt it would stop the zerg. The only thing in my honest opinion (sadly) to stop zerg, is to give no rewards at all for PVP. And there you have it.. you have destroyed PVP (not you personally).

In the situation we are in currently. Body Drop tokens of old are the best route to go. 1 Token per kill (per person in the group .. ie the way Void Shards are done in chest.) to the group that got the kill. Just like now only certain people can open a chest even if others have gotten a hit or two in.

That might slow the zerg. If only those actually (literally) getting the kills got any rewards. Obviously token cost would need to be increased for this scenerio since you'd get one per kill. But over all .. I don't know

EDIT: Then again the majority of players on Nagafen actually seem to enjoy the Zerg (and only come here to complain about it when something in it is not benefieting them). I mean seriously, those complaining about it on the board are not even a small fraction of those that are their PVPing in the Zerg and loving what Ohilin has done. So while it may be a fail for some, it certainly looks like the majority are calling it a win.

[Arieneth]

once again complaints are going in the wrong direction. asking for them to fix the posters so you don't feel bad when you get zerged and can't use them. try asking them to fix the zerg problem. and then the poster problem fixes itself.

[Ahlana]

Arieneth wrote:

once again complaints are going in the wrong direction. asking for them to fix the posters so you don't feel bad when you get zerged and can't use them. try asking them to fix the zerg problem. and then the poster problem fixes itself.

But they don't seem to be complaining about the zerg. In fact I bet they heavily particpate in it and don't want to see it go (in their hearts of hearts, it is still the best way to get their armor). They are only upset because they can't get their writs during their chaos.

ie. They don't want the zerg gone, they just want their writs

[Arieneth]

Ahlana wrote:

Arieneth wrote:

Ahlana wrote:

Arieneth wrote:

i don't care. just quit with the bullsht coverups and FIX the main problem.

The main problem is the players mentality pure and simple. They can't fix that. Ohilin can make changes til blue in the face and players will find a way around them. Moving the writ giver and going to the Most Wanted Posters was a good idea. It is the players that still managed to mess it up by still gathering in KP and zerging the hell out of each other.

SOE can not fix stupid and should not be responsible to.

no...they can't fix stupid. but they DO have the responsibility to offer a higher quality of play for the people that pay them. that means designing a system that is harder to abuse, or not worth abusing at all. the token system will always be abused because it's so easy. the poster idea may have been a good idea on paper...but Olihin appears to lack the foresight that the veterans of eq2 pvp have. many of us knew this wouldn't work...and look, it didn't.

How though? I am sure he is open to ideas. The Most Wanted Posters came around mostly from those that wanted the writ giver to go away from Open World Zones.

So the question is how do you make the Zergfest stop. No PVP Gear? That would certainly work.. Making Items cost statues instead of Tokens would not stop it. You would still get status from zerging. Heck you can turn in items, do HQ, TS writs, anything for status.

You could make a new PVP Status I suppose, but I doubt it would stop the zerg. The only thing in my honest opinion (sadly) to stop zerg, is to give no rewards at all for PVP. And there you have it.. you have destroyed PVP (not you personally).

In the situation we are in currently. Body Drop tokens of old are the best route to go. 1 Token per kill (per person in the group .. ie the way Void Shards are done in chest.) to the group that got the kill. Just like now only certain people can open a chest even if others have gotten a hit or two in.

That might slow the zerg. If only those actually (literally) getting the kills got any rewards. Obviously token cost would need to be increased for this scenerio since you'd get one per kill. But over all .. I don't know

the first idea was thoroughly discussed in another thread. PvP status. people currently get writ updates for assisting in pvp kills other makes...hence the zerg. going status means greatly dimenished status due to zerg assisted killing.

another is making recent list unlimited. the zerg is possible because so many people are there that the list constantly recycles allowing for continuous updates. make the list unlimited with the current time based recycle.

FFA. that one is obvious.

tbh, i loved pvp when there were no real rewards. way back before exile when i was in Freeport. the few items on the pvp merchants were so so. everyone pvp'd for the sake of pvp...nothing more. incentives incite a "gimme gimme gimme" attitude. but that was then, this is now. we need pvp rewards at this stage in the game.

Body token drops won't work. it still promotes zerging just like we have now. i don't think that any one fix will fix our troubles. it needs to be a combination of things. making the recent unlimited is a good first step i think. a 15 would reduce desire to stand in a lag filled cluster getting no reward. going pvp status supplements that. when your recent refreshes, if you are still in a zerg, your status gain will be lower as i said earlier. those 2 things would put a drastic slowdown on the zerg. gear cost would have to be factored in. zerging allows for mass token gain. the system i suggest would be slow with the current cost...so it would need to be adjusted to be in line with the desired time sink.

[Faenril]

Ahlana wrote:

So the question is how do you make the Zergfest stop.

Many things can slow down the zerg, if not stop it:

- solid, harsh, death penalty. Fame loss, respawning miles away, 10 minutes revive sickness that prevents you from inflicting damage nor healing, decrementing your writ update counter everytime you die ... just use your imagination :p)

- solo revive zerging disabled. If you knew you could be stuck dead in combat for hours, you would sure think twice before jumping in the slaughter alone, and maybe you would look for some small scale pvp somewhere else

- encouraging ppl to spread. Make multiple objectives through the world, eventually moving around, and the likelyhood for ppl to stack in one place for hours goes down.

- factoring risk into the reward. Don't get a full update because you helped 50 other ppl to kill 1 person from a 6 man group for instance. Reward players according to the difficulty of the kill. While difficulty is impossible to evaluate accurately as there are so many factors, there are obvious simple metrics than can be used, like number of ppl involved on each side... Status based writs may be one way to go. Giving credit to only 1 party for a kill is another. I'm sure there ar emore options to evaluate and explore. Even if it may end up as a "duel fest" as Seliri said, I'd rather see ppl rewarded for winning even fights than current joke of a reward system. And while there would be duels, solos and duos would start roaming the world again, looking for questers and bots for easy status, and bumping into other pvpers in the process.

The most wanted poster is a step in the right direction, as it does not force you to sit at the writ giver anymore. But as expected it does not stop the zerg because it is still the easiest and most rewarding way. I don't believe it was intended to address the zerg anyway, as thinking this would suffice would be foolish.

For some reason the devs seem to think leaving the zerg untouched is the way to keep the most subscriptions running on nagafen. Maybe they are right, maybe it's this kind of pvp that most players enjoy and want to see encouraged. I'm personnally curious and would like to hear Olihin's opinion about this, but I guess he will never tell because then it would mean "choosing one side"