The Purifier nerf went wrong.

Bigmik22 · 10-13-2009, 11:08 AM

I understand the damage rating on the Purifer was high, but that was only because of the low end damage being relatively high, the high end damage was in line with other fabled off-hands.

The nerf should have been to the low end damage, not high end. Now the Purifier was worse high end damage than previous expansion weapons, which is making it worthless.

Make the high end back to the way it was, make the low end lower. The damage rating will look right to the people that care about it.

YasikoSetsu · 10-13-2009, 11:16 AM

Bro, I don't think most people using that thing are too worried about the uber-insane-[Removed for Content] damage it's doing.

Have you read its effect? xD

It's exactly what it should be. A weapon EXTREMELY effective for PvP. Maybe not the best choice for PvE, hence the term 'PvP Gear.' It doesn't need to hit harder.

Bigmik22 · 10-13-2009, 11:36 AM

I can assure you that people playing brawlers are not happy with doing low damage... The proc is nice, but it's not what kills your target.

The point is that this nerf wasn't needed, not the way it was done. The other pvp weapons dont have subpar damage, why should this one?

Olihin · 10-13-2009, 01:05 PM

The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...

I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken...

Olihin

Paikis · 10-13-2009, 01:18 PM

Olihin wrote:

The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...

Whats this about 2 handed mythicals?

Peak · 10-13-2009, 01:32 PM

Paikis wrote:

Olihin wrote:
The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...
Whats this about 2 handed mythicals?

Ambrin · 10-13-2009, 01:51 PM

Olihin wrote:

The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...
I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken...
Olihin

While you're looking at Purifier could you please consider changing it's damage type to be crushing so it will actually gain something from monk gear which exclusively buffs crushing skill? It wouldn't be the only weapon with a blade like appearance to use the crushing skill, our Mythical does this for example.

Also, if you're looking at the brawler weapon may I suggest you also take a gander at the monk / bruiser PvP armour? Right now it has a total of something like +155 int on it, a stat that does not benefit monks in anyway, all our damage is melee and out power pool comes from strength. I would suggest adding some more strength, or other stats like stamina, agility, wisdom, or preferably +DPS mods in place of this +int, the gear will be much better overall with these changes.

Olihin · 10-13-2009, 01:58 PM

Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:

Olihin wrote:
The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...
I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken...
Olihin
While you're looking at Purifier could you please consider changing it's damage type to be crushing so it will actually gain something from monk gear which exclusively buffs crushing skill? It wouldn't be the only weapon with a blade like appearance to use the crushing skill, our Mythical does this for example.
We will leave the purifier as is for the damage type. I understand what you are requesting, but the purifier is a blade and I want to leave it that way.
Also, if you're looking at the brawler weapon may I suggest you also take a gander at the monk / bruiser PvP armour? Right now it has a total of something like +155 int on it, a stat that does not benefit monks in anyway, all our damage is melee and out power pool comes from strength. I would suggest adding some more strength, or other stats like stamina, agility, wisdom, or preferably +DPS mods in place of this +int, the gear will be much better overall with these changes.
The INT is on there as an addition. Like most armor that has stats that people would consider useless, someone else in the game finds it useful. I could just remove it and the armor would still be capped for its points.

Paikis · 10-13-2009, 02:04 PM

Paikis wrote:

Olihin wrote:
The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...
Whats this about 2 handed mythicals?

Olihin · 10-13-2009, 02:08 PM

Paikis wrote:

Paikis wrote:
Olihin wrote:
The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...
Whats this about 2 handed mythicals?

See title of thread. I am exagerating of course, but it needed to be brought down and now it has and all is right in the world. Ice Badgers are rejoicing as well, that is how right the world is now.

Neskonlith · 10-13-2009, 02:33 PM

Olihin wrote:

Ice Badgers are rejoicing as well, that is how right the world is now.

Ice Badgers? We don't need no freezin' badgers!!

MÃ¶rk · 10-13-2009, 05:57 PM

I'm still waiting for someone to see how good my "Wurmslayer-style wield change clicky on battlepriest mythicals" idea is.

Faenril · 10-14-2009, 04:28 AM

Olihin wrote:

So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken...

Actually the "broken" version of the purifier (with too high damage) was reported in the itemization forum (by Kruhl) I believe.

Found the thread just for you:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=460270

Faenril · 10-14-2009, 04:31 AM

Olihin wrote:

Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:
The INT is on there as an addition. Like most armor that has stats that people would consider useless, someone else in the game finds it useful. I could just remove it and the armor would still be capped for its points.

Does it mean it's overcapped at the moment ?

If so what's the point of having a cap in the first place if you can add stats past the caps ?

Or is it only useless stats that you can add past the point cap ?

This comment is highly confusing SMILEY

Silverzx · 10-14-2009, 07:55 AM

Naemesis@Nagafen wrote:

Olihin wrote:
Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:
The INT is on there as an addition. Like most armor that has stats that people would consider useless, someone else in the game finds it useful. I could just remove it and the armor would still be capped for its points.
Does it mean it's overcapped at the moment ?
If so what's the point of having a cap in the first place if you can add stats past the caps ?
Or is it only useless stats that you can add past the point cap ?
This comment is highly confusing

he means take the int or leave it, he will not increase the other stats on the weapon any more as it is already high enough. if you dont want the int he'll take it away but you will gain no more str/agi/stam etc from it.

Faenril · 10-14-2009, 08:13 AM

Silverzx wrote:

Naemesis@Nagafen wrote:
Olihin wrote:
Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:
The INT is on there as an addition. Like most armor that has stats that people would consider useless, someone else in the game finds it useful. I could just remove it and the armor would still be capped for its points.
Does it mean it's overcapped at the moment ?
If so what's the point of having a cap in the first place if you can add stats past the caps ?
Or is it only useless stats that you can add past the point cap ?
This comment is highly confusing
he means take the int or leave it, he will not increase the other stats on the weapon any more as it is already high enough. if you dont want the int he'll take it away but you will gain no more str/agi/stam etc from it.

Yeah I understood that.

I'm just questioning their item creation/design process when they can spend more points than supposedly allowed lol.

Paikis · 10-14-2009, 11:39 AM

The cap might work something like this:

You can put 200 points on stats, with no more than 60 on any one atribute. The caps would be on individual stats as well as a total points cap for the whole item.

Wytie · 10-14-2009, 12:43 PM

Paikis wrote:

The cap might work something like this:
You can put 200 points on stats, with no more than 60 on any one atribute. The caps would be on individual stats as well as a total points cap for the whole item.

You can also bet some stats weigh more than others for the classes the item is intended for. Int for brawlers has little or no effect on the cap of a brawler item, where as STA, STR most likely do.

Also from his previous statment Id bet the baggers are gone from the revive areas next hotfix lol.

YasikoSetsu · 10-14-2009, 03:53 PM

So, from what I understand, so far...

2H MYTHICLS INC NEXT EXPANSION LULZ !!!!

Also, I vote troubs get AOE auto attack, so I can decimate badgers while mindlessly zerging once naggy hits.

Olihin · 10-14-2009, 03:58 PM

YasikoSetsuna wrote:

So, from what I understand, so far...
2H MYTHICLS INC NEXT EXPANSION LULZ !!!!
Also, I vote troubs get AOE auto attack, so I can decimate badgers while mindlessly zerging once naggy hits.

Lol. I meant the better of any 2H weapon in the game. Conspiracy!

Sprin · 10-14-2009, 04:10 PM

Olihin wrote:

YasikoSetsuna wrote:
So, from what I understand, so far...
2H MYTHICLS INC NEXT EXPANSION LULZ !!!!
Also, I vote troubs get AOE auto attack, so I can decimate badgers while mindlessly zerging once naggy hits.
Lol. I meant the better of any 2H weapon in the game. Conspiracy!

Every conspiracy needs a good cover up story... i believe, sir, you just started the cover up story!!! CONSPIRACY!!!!

Muusic · 10-15-2009, 05:43 PM

LoL at the Aoe autocast.....Poor Snow Badgers must be reincarnated WOW players or something. And since they expanded the population cap for Kylong for the whiffleball servers, is it actually possible to mindlessly zerg anymore at 2 frames per minute?

Bigmik22 · 10-16-2009, 06:17 AM

Olihin wrote:

The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...
I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken...
Olihin

Heya

Maybe I got something wrong, but speaking from my head (values might be a few points + or - ):

The max damage for the Purifier now is 194, used to be 237, while the mythical has 256 and last expansion offhand Nightmare Wraps have 220. Legendary offhands from tso have about 190... so my argument is simply that this value has gone wrong, and was on par with normal raid weapons (Void Knuckles 237), but now it's worse than old stuff. I wasn't referring to the pvp damage multiplier at all.

Notsovileprie · 10-16-2009, 06:49 AM

Bigmik22 wrote:

Olihin wrote:
The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...
I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken...
Olihin
Heya
Maybe I got something wrong, but speaking from my head (values might be a few points + or - ):
The max damage for the Purifier now is 194, used to be 237, while the mythical has 256 and last expansion offhand Nightmare Wraps have 220. Legendary offhands from tso have about 190... so my argument is simply that this value has gone wrong, and was on par with normal raid weapons (Void Knuckles 237), but now it's worse than old stuff. I wasn't referring to the pvp damage multiplier at all.

The items proc is grossly Overpowered, and its still a decent weapon overall, and before you say you mean for PvE, The PvP gear is made for PvP.

Darkor · 10-16-2009, 08:17 AM

Bigmik22 wrote:

Olihin wrote:
The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones...
I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken...
Olihin
Heya
Maybe I got something wrong, but speaking from my head (values might be a few points + or - ):
The max damage for the Purifier now is 194, used to be 237, while the mythical has 256 and last expansion offhand Nightmare Wraps have 220. Legendary offhands from tso have about 190... so my argument is simply that this value has gone wrong, and was on par with normal raid weapons (Void Knuckles 237), but now it's worse than old stuff. I wasn't referring to the pvp damage multiplier at all.

Fine, up the dmg but remove the 5 % reuse on CAs and the basecombat art dmg. Some people have no clue how powerfull some of the other stats are on that weapon /sigh.

Bigmik22 · 10-16-2009, 08:40 AM

I understand that you don't like your faced punched, but don't derail this thread to a envy rant please. The fact that the other stats are good doesn't mean other's have to be crap. It is not the case on other items.

In case you haven't noticed, there is no brawler offhand in raiding that is even close to the scout off-hands, the only one that is so-so is an avatar one (Fist of Judgement i think), that is almost impossible to get on a pvp server. Go compare Strategist's Field Dagger to Void Knuckles, or even the Empowered Talon of Milyex (or whats it called). Btw have you noticed that Gozak drops an uber hat for everyone BUT a brawler? Here comes at least one decent offhand for a brawler, and it gets nerfed right away.

Faenril · 10-16-2009, 08:54 AM

Well, pvp items should not fix holes in pve itemization. If there is no good off hander obtained through pve make a post in itemization forum asking for one to be added to some raid mob loot table and see how it turns out. If your problem is that Purifier now sucks for pvp and you will drop it for void knuckles for instance, that's another story. But I strongly doubt you will drop it tbh... Also with the max_dmg + 1 rule not applying to pvp crits it's not like spread or top end damage matter as much as in pve.

Bigmik22 · 10-16-2009, 09:04 AM

This, again, is irrelevant. The item had average damage, now it has very weak damage. There was no good reason to do that, while only the pvp damage multiplier had to be changed.

Don't tell me that pve and pvp shouldn't mix, because it does. This is a game where pvp is an add-on, and those that you see most beastly in pvp, are those with high end pve items.

It would be good if non-brawler players would stop posting here, because all I see is people who want other's nerfed because they feel they have trouble beating them. Decreasing my weapon's damage won't stop brawlers from pushing your face into the ground, if you don't know how to beat a brawler, you fail, stop nerf calls to make up for your failure. This immature both as a person and as a player.

The most funny thing is that people cry about the Purifier damage, while brawler's autoattack damage is the lowest of all melee classes. The haste is better, but if you allow for plenty of hits to land, you either fail or the brawler is very skilled. In both cases, your death is justified.

Faenril · 10-16-2009, 09:33 AM

Bigmik22 wrote:

This, again, is irrelevant. The item had average damage, now it has very weak damage. There was no good reason to do that, while only the pvp damage multiplier had to be changed.
Don't tell me that pve and pvp shouldn't mix, because it does. This is a game where pvp is an add-on, and those that you see most beastly in pvp, are those with high end pve items.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't mix. I'm saying that if there is really a lack of pve off handers for brawlers one should be added. As adding a good one to the pvp vendor only fixes the issue for the pvp crowd. As you said pvp is an add-on. Core problems don't get fixed with add-ons.
It's like if they added a brawler hat to the pvp merchant because Gozak drops none, to reuse your own example. That would be silly now wouldn't it ?
It would be good if non-brawler players would stop posting here, because all I see is people who want other's nerfed because they feel they have trouble beating them. Decreasing my weapon's damage won't stop brawlers from pushing your face into the ground, if you don't know how to beat a brawler, you fail, stop nerf calls to make up for your failure. This immature both as a person and as a player.
Well my monk is 78 and I plan to get it to 80 before the merge. Purifier is my first priority in the pvp items. All I see is someone crying because his pvp off hander is not the best (pre avatar ?) pve off hander anymore. And no one called nerf btw.
The most funny thing is that people cry about the Purifier damage, while brawler's autoattack damage is the lowest of all melee classes. The haste is better, but if you allow for plenty of hits to land, you either fail or the brawler is very skilled. In both cases, your death is justified.
The only person crying about purifier damage since it has been scaled back is you. If you think that having a higher rating than your myth was intended then I don't know what to say...

Bigmik22 · 10-16-2009, 09:50 AM

I have no time to look through posts atm, but there were "nerf Purifier" posts before, and that is why it was nerfed.

I dont want it to be better than the myth. It's pve damage was average, and that's where it is fine. Now it is completely subpar, and that is not. The damage rating was similar to that of the mythical only because of the minimum damage, which is irrelevant. Clearly you have little clue about what you are referring to. Would be nice if you played some of the high end content with your brawler before you criticize those that did.

Let's try this: Ghost damage is OP, lets make it do 290 max pve damage instead of 344. Let's see the post spam after that nerf.

10-13-2009, 01:18 PM	#5
Paikis Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,254	Olihin wrote: The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... Whats this about 2 handed mythicals? __________________ Kaelas, Necromancer Valindor, Templar Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Berserker Mirbolt, Shadowknight

10-13-2009, 01:32 PM	#6
Peak Server: Nagafen Guild: Slice of Life Rank: Trinity Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 501	Paikis wrote: Olihin wrote: The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... Whats this about 2 handed mythicals? __________________

10-13-2009, 01:51 PM	#7
Ambrin Server: Nagafen Guild: Illuminati Rank: Members Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 391	Olihin wrote: The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken... Olihin While you're looking at Purifier could you please consider changing it's damage type to be crushing so it will actually gain something from monk gear which exclusively buffs crushing skill? It wouldn't be the only weapon with a blade like appearance to use the crushing skill, our Mythical does this for example. Also, if you're looking at the brawler weapon may I suggest you also take a gander at the monk / bruiser PvP armour? Right now it has a total of something like +155 int on it, a stat that does not benefit monks in anyway, all our damage is melee and out power pool comes from strength. I would suggest adding some more strength, or other stats like stamina, agility, wisdom, or preferably +DPS mods in place of this +int, the gear will be much better overall with these changes. __________________ ___________________________ Ambrin - 92 Monk / 92 Tailor / 320 AA Ambryn - 92 Dirge / 320 AA Visjeer - 92 Necromancer Oryn - 90 Inquisitor

10-13-2009, 01:58 PM	#8
Olihin Developer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 429	Ambrin@Nagafen wrote: Olihin wrote: The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken... Olihin While you're looking at Purifier could you please consider changing it's damage type to be crushing so it will actually gain something from monk gear which exclusively buffs crushing skill? It wouldn't be the only weapon with a blade like appearance to use the crushing skill, our Mythical does this for example. We will leave the purifier as is for the damage type. I understand what you are requesting, but the purifier is a blade and I want to leave it that way. Also, if you're looking at the brawler weapon may I suggest you also take a gander at the monk / bruiser PvP armour? Right now it has a total of something like +155 int on it, a stat that does not benefit monks in anyway, all our damage is melee and out power pool comes from strength. I would suggest adding some more strength, or other stats like stamina, agility, wisdom, or preferably +DPS mods in place of this +int, the gear will be much better overall with these changes. The INT is on there as an addition. Like most armor that has stats that people would consider useless, someone else in the game finds it useful. I could just remove it and the armor would still be capped for its points.

10-13-2009, 02:04 PM	#9
Paikis Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,254	Paikis wrote: Olihin wrote: The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... Whats this about 2 handed mythicals? __________________ Kaelas, Necromancer Valindor, Templar Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Berserker Mirbolt, Shadowknight

10-13-2009, 11:08 AM	#1
Bigmik22 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26	I understand the damage rating on the Purifer was high, but that was only because of the low end damage being relatively high, the high end damage was in line with other fabled off-hands. The nerf should have been to the low end damage, not high end. Now the Purifier was worse high end damage than previous expansion weapons, which is making it worthless. Make the high end back to the way it was, make the low end lower. The damage rating will look right to the people that care about it.

10-13-2009, 11:16 AM	#2
YasikoSetsu General Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 193	Bro, I don't think most people using that thing are too worried about the uber-insane-[Removed for Content] damage it's doing. Have you read its effect? xD It's exactly what it should be. A weapon EXTREMELY effective for PvP. Maybe not the best choice for PvE, hence the term 'PvP Gear.' It doesn't need to hit harder.

10-13-2009, 11:36 AM	#3
Bigmik22 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26	I can assure you that people playing brawlers are not happy with doing low damage... The proc is nice, but it's not what kills your target. The point is that this nerf wasn't needed, not the way it was done. The other pvp weapons dont have subpar damage, why should this one?

10-13-2009, 01:05 PM	#4
Olihin Developer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 429	The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken... Olihin

10-13-2009, 02:08 PM	#10
Olihin Developer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 429	Paikis wrote: Paikis wrote: Olihin wrote: The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... Whats this about 2 handed mythicals? See title of thread. I am exagerating of course, but it needed to be brought down and now it has and all is right in the world. Ice Badgers are rejoicing as well, that is how right the world is now.

10-13-2009, 02:33 PM	#11
Neskonlith Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,834	Olihin wrote: Ice Badgers are rejoicing as well, that is how right the world is now. Ice Badgers? We don't need no freezin' badgers!! __________________ "...Gibbets, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of carrion in the morning. You know, one time we had Freeport TG defended, pvp for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked to their revive spot. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' QQ body. The smell, you know that putrescent smell, the whole writ house. Smelled likeâ€¦ victory..." - Apocalypse Gnome

10-13-2009, 05:57 PM	#12
MÃ¶rk Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 220	I'm still waiting for someone to see how good my "Wurmslayer-style wield change clicky on battlepriest mythicals" idea is. __________________

10-14-2009, 04:28 AM	#13
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	Olihin wrote: So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken... Actually the "broken" version of the purifier (with too high damage) was reported in the itemization forum (by Kruhl) I believe. Found the thread just for you: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=460270

10-14-2009, 04:31 AM	#14
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	Olihin wrote: Ambrin@Nagafen wrote: The INT is on there as an addition. Like most armor that has stats that people would consider useless, someone else in the game finds it useful. I could just remove it and the armor would still be capped for its points. Does it mean it's overcapped at the moment ? If so what's the point of having a cap in the first place if you can add stats past the caps ? Or is it only useless stats that you can add past the point cap ? This comment is highly confusing

10-14-2009, 07:55 AM	#15
Silverzx Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 282	Naemesis@Nagafen wrote: Olihin wrote: Ambrin@Nagafen wrote: The INT is on there as an addition. Like most armor that has stats that people would consider useless, someone else in the game finds it useful. I could just remove it and the armor would still be capped for its points. Does it mean it's overcapped at the moment ? If so what's the point of having a cap in the first place if you can add stats past the caps ? Or is it only useless stats that you can add past the point cap ? This comment is highly confusing he means take the int or leave it, he will not increase the other stats on the weapon any more as it is already high enough. if you dont want the int he'll take it away but you will gain no more str/agi/stam etc from it.

10-14-2009, 08:13 AM	#16
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	Silverzx wrote: Naemesis@Nagafen wrote: Olihin wrote: Ambrin@Nagafen wrote: The INT is on there as an addition. Like most armor that has stats that people would consider useless, someone else in the game finds it useful. I could just remove it and the armor would still be capped for its points. Does it mean it's overcapped at the moment ? If so what's the point of having a cap in the first place if you can add stats past the caps ? Or is it only useless stats that you can add past the point cap ? This comment is highly confusing he means take the int or leave it, he will not increase the other stats on the weapon any more as it is already high enough. if you dont want the int he'll take it away but you will gain no more str/agi/stam etc from it. Yeah I understood that. I'm just questioning their item creation/design process when they can spend more points than supposedly allowed lol.

10-14-2009, 11:39 AM	#17
Paikis Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,254	The cap might work something like this: You can put 200 points on stats, with no more than 60 on any one atribute. The caps would be on individual stats as well as a total points cap for the whole item. __________________ Kaelas, Necromancer Valindor, Templar Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Berserker Mirbolt, Shadowknight

10-14-2009, 12:43 PM	#18
Wytie Mouse Betrayer! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,579	Paikis wrote: The cap might work something like this: You can put 200 points on stats, with no more than 60 on any one atribute. The caps would be on individual stats as well as a total points cap for the whole item. You can also bet some stats weigh more than others for the classes the item is intended for. Int for brawlers has little or no effect on the cap of a brawler item, where as STA, STR most likely do. Also from his previous statment Id bet the baggers are gone from the revive areas next hotfix lol. __________________

10-14-2009, 03:53 PM	#19
YasikoSetsu General Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 193	So, from what I understand, so far... 2H MYTHICLS INC NEXT EXPANSION LULZ !!!! Also, I vote troubs get AOE auto attack, so I can decimate badgers while mindlessly zerging once naggy hits.

10-14-2009, 03:58 PM	#20
Olihin Developer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 429	YasikoSetsuna wrote: So, from what I understand, so far... 2H MYTHICLS INC NEXT EXPANSION LULZ !!!! Also, I vote troubs get AOE auto attack, so I can decimate badgers while mindlessly zerging once naggy hits. Lol. I meant the better of any 2H weapon in the game. Conspiracy!

10-14-2009, 04:10 PM	#21
Sprin Server: Nagafen Guild: L U S H Rank: LUSH (Supreme Drinker!) General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,364	Olihin wrote: YasikoSetsuna wrote: So, from what I understand, so far... 2H MYTHICLS INC NEXT EXPANSION LULZ !!!! Also, I vote troubs get AOE auto attack, so I can decimate badgers while mindlessly zerging once naggy hits. Lol. I meant the better of any 2H weapon in the game. Conspiracy! Every conspiracy needs a good cover up story... i believe, sir, you just started the cover up story!!! CONSPIRACY!!!!

10-15-2009, 05:43 PM	#22
Muusic Server: Venekor Guild: New Age Rank: Leaders Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 295	LoL at the Aoe autocast.....Poor Snow Badgers must be reincarnated WOW players or something. And since they expanded the population cap for Kylong for the whiffleball servers, is it actually possible to mindlessly zerg anymore at 2 frames per minute? __________________ Muusic 92-320AA Troub/92 Grandmaster Jeweler-Venekor born Muusic 92-320AA Troub/92 Grandmaster Jeweler-Antonia Bayle Imyourr 92-320AA Dirge/92 Grandmaster Tailor-Venekor born Wecanbe 92 - 320AA Warden/92 Grandmaster Provisioner Myndtrixx 92/320AA Illusionist - Antonia bayle Avithax 92 - 320AA Shadowknight - Nagafen Silencess 92-320AA Conji/92 Grandmaster Sage- Venekor born Alisylent 92/320AA Ranger/92 Grandmaster Weaponsmith- Antonia Bayle Amphlify 92 - 320AA Dirge Antonia Bayle Smiiles 92-320AA Monk/92 Grandmaster Jeweler-Antonia Bayle Avithax 92 - 320AA Shadowknight/92 Grandmaster Alchemist - Antonia Bayle Playforr - 92/320AA Defiler - Antonia Bayle

10-16-2009, 06:17 AM	#23
Bigmik22 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26	Olihin wrote: The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken... Olihin Heya Maybe I got something wrong, but speaking from my head (values might be a few points + or - ): The max damage for the Purifier now is 194, used to be 237, while the mythical has 256 and last expansion offhand Nightmare Wraps have 220. Legendary offhands from tso have about 190... so my argument is simply that this value has gone wrong, and was on par with normal raid weapons (Void Knuckles 237), but now it's worse than old stuff. I wasn't referring to the pvp damage multiplier at all.

10-16-2009, 06:49 AM	#24
Notsovileprie General Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 135	Bigmik22 wrote: Olihin wrote: The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken... Olihin Heya Maybe I got something wrong, but speaking from my head (values might be a few points + or - ): The max damage for the Purifier now is 194, used to be 237, while the mythical has 256 and last expansion offhand Nightmare Wraps have 220. Legendary offhands from tso have about 190... so my argument is simply that this value has gone wrong, and was on par with normal raid weapons (Void Knuckles 237), but now it's worse than old stuff. I wasn't referring to the pvp damage multiplier at all. The items proc is grossly Overpowered, and its still a decent weapon overall, and before you say you mean for PvE, The PvP gear is made for PvP.

10-16-2009, 08:17 AM	#25
Darkor Server: Nagafen Guild: Nexus Rank: Ancient and Mummified Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 1,957	Bigmik22 wrote: Olihin wrote: The only change was to the damage multiplier that was incorrectly set to be more then Mythicals, even two handed ones... I changed it to be the same as Ghost which was just a bit low and I moved it up a notch, same with all two handed weapons for PVP. So nothing but the multiplier was changed, and that means that I either need to go back and check out the damage and see if that needs tunning or that I made a mistake and now you only telling me when I fixed it but not before when it was broken... Olihin Heya Maybe I got something wrong, but speaking from my head (values might be a few points + or - ): The max damage for the Purifier now is 194, used to be 237, while the mythical has 256 and last expansion offhand Nightmare Wraps have 220. Legendary offhands from tso have about 190... so my argument is simply that this value has gone wrong, and was on par with normal raid weapons (Void Knuckles 237), but now it's worse than old stuff. I wasn't referring to the pvp damage multiplier at all. Fine, up the dmg but remove the 5 % reuse on CAs and the basecombat art dmg. Some people have no clue how powerfull some of the other stats are on that weapon /sigh. __________________ Steal 90 Assassin Darkor 90 Swashbuckler Daerkin 90 Shadowknight Daerkor 90 Templar Ajjantis 90 Warden Melodic 90 Dirge Dayo 90 Monk Rasiel 88 Conjuror Razyeel 70 Wizard Biyon 65 Beastlord

10-16-2009, 08:40 AM	#26
Bigmik22 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26	I understand that you don't like your faced punched, but don't derail this thread to a envy rant please. The fact that the other stats are good doesn't mean other's have to be crap. It is not the case on other items. In case you haven't noticed, there is no brawler offhand in raiding that is even close to the scout off-hands, the only one that is so-so is an avatar one (Fist of Judgement i think), that is almost impossible to get on a pvp server. Go compare Strategist's Field Dagger to Void Knuckles, or even the Empowered Talon of Milyex (or whats it called). Btw have you noticed that Gozak drops an uber hat for everyone BUT a brawler? Here comes at least one decent offhand for a brawler, and it gets nerfed right away.

10-16-2009, 08:54 AM	#27
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	Well, pvp items should not fix holes in pve itemization. If there is no good off hander obtained through pve make a post in itemization forum asking for one to be added to some raid mob loot table and see how it turns out. If your problem is that Purifier now sucks for pvp and you will drop it for void knuckles for instance, that's another story. But I strongly doubt you will drop it tbh... Also with the max_dmg + 1 rule not applying to pvp crits it's not like spread or top end damage matter as much as in pve.

10-16-2009, 09:04 AM	#28
Bigmik22 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26	This, again, is irrelevant. The item had average damage, now it has very weak damage. There was no good reason to do that, while only the pvp damage multiplier had to be changed. Don't tell me that pve and pvp shouldn't mix, because it does. This is a game where pvp is an add-on, and those that you see most beastly in pvp, are those with high end pve items. It would be good if non-brawler players would stop posting here, because all I see is people who want other's nerfed because they feel they have trouble beating them. Decreasing my weapon's damage won't stop brawlers from pushing your face into the ground, if you don't know how to beat a brawler, you fail, stop nerf calls to make up for your failure. This immature both as a person and as a player. The most funny thing is that people cry about the Purifier damage, while brawler's autoattack damage is the lowest of all melee classes. The haste is better, but if you allow for plenty of hits to land, you either fail or the brawler is very skilled. In both cases, your death is justified.

10-16-2009, 09:33 AM	#29
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	Bigmik22 wrote: This, again, is irrelevant. The item had average damage, now it has very weak damage. There was no good reason to do that, while only the pvp damage multiplier had to be changed. Don't tell me that pve and pvp shouldn't mix, because it does. This is a game where pvp is an add-on, and those that you see most beastly in pvp, are those with high end pve items. I'm not saying that they shouldn't mix. I'm saying that if there is really a lack of pve off handers for brawlers one should be added. As adding a good one to the pvp vendor only fixes the issue for the pvp crowd. As you said pvp is an add-on. Core problems don't get fixed with add-ons. It's like if they added a brawler hat to the pvp merchant because Gozak drops none, to reuse your own example. That would be silly now wouldn't it ? It would be good if non-brawler players would stop posting here, because all I see is people who want other's nerfed because they feel they have trouble beating them. Decreasing my weapon's damage won't stop brawlers from pushing your face into the ground, if you don't know how to beat a brawler, you fail, stop nerf calls to make up for your failure. This immature both as a person and as a player. Well my monk is 78 and I plan to get it to 80 before the merge. Purifier is my first priority in the pvp items. All I see is someone crying because his pvp off hander is not the best (pre avatar ?) pve off hander anymore. And no one called nerf btw. The most funny thing is that people cry about the Purifier damage, while brawler's autoattack damage is the lowest of all melee classes. The haste is better, but if you allow for plenty of hits to land, you either fail or the brawler is very skilled. In both cases, your death is justified. The only person crying about purifier damage since it has been scaled back is you. If you think that having a higher rating than your myth was intended then I don't know what to say...

10-16-2009, 09:50 AM	#30
Bigmik22 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26	I have no time to look through posts atm, but there were "nerf Purifier" posts before, and that is why it was nerfed. I dont want it to be better than the myth. It's pve damage was average, and that's where it is fine. Now it is completely subpar, and that is not. The damage rating was similar to that of the mythical only because of the minimum damage, which is irrelevant. Clearly you have little clue about what you are referring to. Would be nice if you played some of the high end content with your brawler before you criticize those that did. Let's try this: Ghost damage is OP, lets make it do 290 max pve damage instead of 344. Let's see the post spam after that nerf.