How do you feel about retroactive credit for achievement kills and exploration?

[Rothgar]

When we first announced the achievement system, the only achievements that would give retroactive credit were related to quests since most quests can only be done 1 time.  Anything that could be done over again, like killing certain NPC's or discovering POI's would require that you go back and did them again. 

Based on early player feedback we decided to give retroactive credit for NPC kills and POI discovery that we could track using the AA XP system.  The downside to this is that any NPC's or POI's that you earned while being maxed AA were not tracked and therefor we aren't able to confirm that it was completed.  This causes some confusion for players that may not understand how we track AA kills and POI's. 

This poll is to help me determine how many people would prefer to have the AA system start fresh for everyone and require that you go back and obtain NPC kills and POI discoveries again.  Or, should we continue to give credit for kills and discoveries that we are able to track from the AA XP list.

[Dreyco]

You're on the right track, Rothgar.  IMO, this system is supposed to add in a reason to go back and re-experience content with purpose once again.

Not to log in and go "Hahahaha, my achievement score is greater than yours because of X, Y, and Z on day one!"

Keep it as it is!

[Cyliena]

Dreyco wrote:

You're on the right track, Rothgar.  IMO, this system is supposed to add in a reason to go back and re-experience content with purpose once again.

Not to log in and go "Hahahaha, my achievement score is greater than yours because of X, Y, and Z on day one!"

Keep it as it is!

"as it is" is retro-active all around, which I think contradicts what you're saying there. I agree that it should be something where you have a purpose and get to re-experience things again.

I went with option #1. It makes the most sense to me. I think of it as all those discovery locations getting reset when KoS came to light.

[revren]

Hey Hey

At much as i would love to be able to have every one of my kills documented , either from AA or not, i think starting every one from square one is a pretty good idea.   Inaddition from every one starting from scratch , it weill be like when the expanshion went live every one running around starting PuG's for all of the old raids. As a token i think you should add some new rewards , more aperance gear, titles , house itmes, fluff pets , and i would love to see aperance weapons and secondary's. Just seeing people running around trying to find POI and such would be worth it.

Welcome Home

Rev

[Thunderthyze]

We had this kind of issue when AAs were first introduced. Characters at cap had the devils own job getting on par with those levelling with the AAs so to speak. While these achievements won't have any real impact on play it would be disingenuous to suggest that it would be fine with everyone if you had to go back and do things a second time just to compare with newly created characters.

I don't mind flirting with a couple of hundred people again but killing Holly Windstalker again just "because" seems sort of pointless......been there, seen that, done it, so to speak.

[Bridgeplay]

Assuming no retroactive credit for PoIs, named mobs, etc.  The player goes back and "discovers" Coldwind Point in Antonica. Which of the following would be true?

(1) The player receives both Achievement credit and normal AA exp/regular exp even though the player received normal AA exp/regular exp long ago from the Coldwind Point discovery.

(2) The player receives Achievement credit only.

If (1), I'm fine with there being no retro-credit.  If the player is going to have to re-visit a place (or kill a mob) to receive Achievement credit, then the AA reward/regular exp gain should be as though it was the true first time the place had been visited.

If (2), then I favor retro-credit.

Or do I misunderstand what's being proposed?

[Xalmat]

I went with option 2, simply because it will be very difficult to convince people to go back for RoK and TSO raid kills in the future. Unlike previous expansions raid content, RoK and TSO raids will likely never be 1 groupable even at level 90 because of the way these encounters are designed (With a few exceptions).

I think Kills should be retroactive when possible, but POIs I'm indifferent either way.

Bridgeplay wrote:

Assuming no retroactive credit for PoIs, named mobs, etc.  The player goes back and "discovers" Coldwind Point in Antonica. Which of the following would be true?

(1) The player receives both Achievement credit and normal AA exp/regular exp even though the player received normal AA exp/regular exp long ago from the Coldwind Point discovery.

(2) The player receives Achievement credit only.

Option 2 is correct, Option 1 is not.

[Korrupt]

There are alot of names that I have to go back and kill when achievments come out. Meaning I am going to be a nuisance to low level toons for awhile till I get them all. Taking away my credit for past kills will make me a much bigger nuisance to people. Especially since I will have a ton more to do than I already expect so I will not hesitate to gank names form anyone just to save myself time. So do what you want with it, but dont expect people that have already killed all those past names to play nice and wait their turn, the extra work is not our fault.

[Buneary]

[Valanthe]

I voted for Yes on retroactivity, but I'd still like to see certain quests that require a certain kill being completed update the achievement for kills.

[Cyst]

Make the old content worth going back for, do not use these achievements to force people to go back to the old content.

[denmom]

While I understand going fresh gives everyone an even starting place, what bothers me about that is there are some kills accounted for that some, if not most, players will never have again.

Some kills, like mythical kills, are once in a toon's lifetime.

Some classes have a harder time finding a place in raids and instances.

I know for my toons, and the toons of many others I know, the above is very true.

Giving the achievements already tracked seems to be the better of the two.

[feldon30]

Korrupt@Najena wrote:

There are alot of names that I have to go back and kill when achievments come out. Meaning I am going to be a nuisance to low level toons for awhile till I get them all. Taking away my credit for past kills will make me a much bigger nuisance to people. Especially since I will have a ton more to do than I already expect so I will not hesitate to gank names form anyone just to save myself time. So do what you want with it, but dont expect people that have already killed all those past names to play nice and wait their turn, the extra work is not our fault.

Very good point IMO.

[Master71]

I was level 60 when AA were introduced.

So there are at last 50% of the world i had visited that didn't give me any AA Discovery.

So if you force me to re-discover these lands, i expect you to give me full AA credit for that.

By the way, you have ways to give achievement credit for these discoveries even if AA wasn't credited, should i remind you that you can't have discovery twice? so you already track discoveries since the launch of the game.

[FreaklyCreak]

Master71 wrote:

I was level 60 when AA were introduced.

So there are at last 50% of the world i had visited that didn't give me any AA Discovery.

So if you force me to re-discover these lands, i expect you to give me full AA credit for that.

By the way, you have ways to give achievement credit for these discoveries even if AA wasn't credited, should i remind you that you can't have discovery twice? so you already track discoveries since the launch of the game.

I voted that they are not retroactive in hopes that the reset means they give AA for Killing named again after the wipe, and discoveries again after the wipe.

That would allow ALLOT of people to get alts and some slower AA gaining mains to reach the AA cap before the next expansion.

[BroKenWingZ]

I'd like an option to vote for scrapping the whole idea and putting the developer hours into ensuring itemization and progression (both zone-wise and item-wise) will actually work for the rest of TSO and into TSF.

It seems to me that this acheivment system cannot be implemented correctly regardless... its either "Start from scratch." or "You get what you get, because our tracking system is flawed... what you didn't get credit for, do it over."    If it was known that players would have to redo content  because the tracking system is flawed, then this idea should have never left the drawing board.  This system seems to be "busy work" for players to detract from the fact there will be no xpac until Feb.

[Korrupt]

This is a completely separate issue than aa, don't confuse the 2. The other guy had a pretty good point about POI discoveries though, somehow they have to be tracking them so you dont get the you have discovered message more than once.

[Armawk]

I am leaning towards starting them fresh, and it is definitely fairest to do that if players who were AA capped before expansions come out will have big gaps in their record while others will have those things recorded.

[Rothgar]

Korrupt@Najena wrote:

There are alot of names that I have to go back and kill when achievments come out. Meaning I am going to be a nuisance to low level toons for awhile till I get them all. Taking away my credit for past kills will make me a much bigger nuisance to people. Especially since I will have a ton more to do than I already expect so I will not hesitate to gank names form anyone just to save myself time. So do what you want with it, but dont expect people that have already killed all those past names to play nice and wait their turn, the extra work is not our fault.

The large majority of these named updates for achievements (if not all of them) are in instances.  I don't think anyone needs to worry about 'ganking names'. 

[Rothgar]

Cyst@Venekor wrote:

Make the old content worth going back for, do not use these achievements to force people to go back to the old content.

Honestly it has nothing to do with forcing people to go back to 'old' content.  As long as you're playing I don't care what content you're in.  It has to do with making the achievement system fun.

[Rothgar]

Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:

Master71 wrote:

I was level 60 when AA were introduced.

So there are at last 50% of the world i had visited that didn't give me any AA Discovery.

So if you force me to re-discover these lands, i expect you to give me full AA credit for that.

By the way, you have ways to give achievement credit for these discoveries even if AA wasn't credited, should i remind you that you can't have discovery twice? so you already track discoveries since the launch of the game.

I voted that they are not retroactive in hopes that the reset means they give AA for Killing named again after the wipe, and discoveries again after the wipe.

That would allow ALLOT of people to get alts and some slower AA gaining mains to reach the AA cap before the next expansion.

Achievements and AA are two separate systems.  Whatever we decide to do with achievements will not impact AA XP.  We definitely won't be resetting AA xp for NPC's you've already killed and areas you've discovered. 

[Rothgar]

Chidori@Kithicor wrote:

I'd like an option to vote for scrapping the whole idea and putting the developer hours into ensuring itemization and progression (both zone-wise and item-wise) will actually work for the rest of TSO and into TSF.

It seems to me that this acheivment system cannot be implemented correctly regardless... its either "Start from scratch." or "You get what you get, because our tracking system is flawed... what you didn't get credit for, do it over."    If it was known that players would have to redo content  because the tracking system is flawed, then this idea should have never left the drawing board.  This system seems to be "busy work" for players to detract from the fact there will be no xpac until Feb.

The 'tracking system' isn't flawed at all.  The purpose of this 'tracking system' is to keep up with named and POI's you've received AA XP for.  You wouldn't like it if the tracking system kept all named and POI's regardles of you getting the AA XP because that would mean people at AA cap wouldn't want to kill any named because it would waste potential XP.  In this respect the tracking system is working perfectly and I think everyone is happy with it.

It was suggestions from you, the players, that we use the AA XP tracking system to give credit for achievements.  So with that suggestion, you have to also accept the caveats that come with it. Which means, you won't get credit for any kills in which you didn't receive AA XP. 

As far as scrapping the idea, you do know that itemization and progression are done by completely different people than who did this system right? 

[Armironhead]

achievements are ftl.  its lazy content resulting from lazy development.  all it is, is soe apeing another game instead of focusing on what makes soe unique and fun.  lets make all achievements retroactive so we can get them done and forgotten that much faster.

[Gormak]

Im not by any means one of those "lets take it slow and see everything" types.

But i really love the achievement stuff, as well as the interface.

A core frustration for me over the past year was not knowing what nameds, locations etc i had or hadnt claimed aaxp for. The AA interface simply doesnt support it.

The achievements interface is beautiful. Firstly, its like your own personal tropies list, which is neat, second, it gives you ideas on where to go and what needs to be done to claim some vanity, house loot, or a title, and 3rd, it finally lets me see some of the areas i may like to visit to claim some aa credit. While not totally comprehensive, its certainly extremely helpful.

In short - Retroactive all the way, unless you intend to allow people to reclaim credit (AA credit) for items you deem not worthy of being retroactively applied. Very few will appreciate having to go back and redo old content for the sake of an achievement credit.

[Bratface]

I voted retro because I have done so much in this game and there are too many things that I just don't think I will have the opportunity (or time) to repeat so I'd like to have my past recognized for achievements and not have to go and do stuff all over again.

I have alts for that =p

Thanks for asking Rothgar =)

[Thaelar]

What I don't understand about half these posts bashing the new Achievement system is that in the same post, sometimes even in the same sentence, these people say that the achievement system is worthless and yet they feel compelled that they must have the achievements rewarded to them retroactively. If the system is worthless, why do you care whether your character displays the achievements? If you care so much that the achievements be displayed on your character, then why do you consider the system worthless? Clearly if you want that achievement so much, it's not worthless to you and thus worth going back and doing the content again for the AA and credit.

The one question I do have for the developers is this: Since the kill achievements will only track named you have gained AA for, what happens to those players who are capped on AA? Will they simply not be able to get credit for any of the named they kill from the point they hit AA cap?

[Jeepned2]

Don't care either way. If I cared at all about an achievement system I'd go play WoW.

[Tabrina]

4 years on my main and doing about everything in game I dont want to go back and do everything again, and actually refuse to for any reason. So if this is a reward system I dont feel rewarded at all if I have to do that. Basically if this involves me having to go do anything over again then I will just do without reward doesnt matter to me. I havent been really rewarded anyway for anything to my knowledge in the past all the way to level 80 dont see a loss for me. I vote for retro for sure. I dont really care if any of this gives aa because I was capped I believe at 50 forever then 100 forever then 140 forever and now have 198(because Im in no hurry now anyway), I dont need aa.

[Deveryn]

Rothgar wrote:

Cyst@Venekor wrote:

Make the old content worth going back for, do not use these achievements to force people to go back to the old content.

Honestly it has nothing to do with forcing people to go back to 'old' content.  As long as you're playing I don't care what content you're in.  It has to do with making the achievement system fun.

Anyone who likes the whole system is basically being forced to repeat content to achieve their goal. That isn't going to be all fun. Looking at my test copy, I have to go back and get Pawbuster, Overking, Venril and Leviathan, even though I'm currently in Veeshan's Peak. Let's ignore the fact that I'll probably end up doing those just to help people out. Killing those mobs isn't exactly fun for most people. It's often been a source of great stress. If you really want the system to be fun, remove the combat section until it can be fixed somehow. Something like this should have been working from the moment the Named NPC counter was put into the AA bar.

[Aurel]

I pick option 4:  I trust your judgment, so whatever you guys do, just don't scrap the system even if not everyone likes it, because I am super duper uber looking forward to this.

I know, that statement is really selfish, and I don't -think- you guys are going to scrap it, but I just wanted to cast that vote and... um... oh what's that? *points and runs*