Exp from PvP - please reduce it

[Siphar]

I would like to address the amount of exp you receive when you kill someone in PvP. I have recently re-rolled a few toons and found the exp gained from PvP combat is way too high.

Even with all of the bonuses off, I still receive 3-7% (depending on the con) per kill. PER KILL.

It is a well known fact that you have to level lock to quest in order to gain AA. However, even though I am completely level locked, I still gain levels too fast to complete any significant number of quests. Furthermore, I play Euro time zone so the population online when i'm on is less vs. peak EST/PST USA time, which suggests the problem is far worse for the USA time zone playerbase.

So what's the solution for me? I have to actually try and avoid pvp if I want to stay around my level to complete the quests and kill named I need/want to get the AA so I can pvp/pve better.

Self defeating vicious circle.

My suggestion is not to remove exp gained from PvP combat. We all know what issues that caused in the past. What I would propose is a significant reduction in the current amount of exp gained when you are successful in PvP, thereby allowing you to get some quests done, kill some named and actively seek pvp without worrying too much about making all your quests/named grey.

It could be argued that you still receive AA from grey quests, but how much fun is it completing 1,000+ grey quests on the way to 80? I wouldn't consider that fun at all. It could also be argued that you can mentor to kill the named, but again, why should I have to actively seek people to mentor to kill named NPC's on a pvp server? 

There is a simple solution: significantly reduce the exp you receive in pvp combat.

[thephantomposter]

I locked my one toon at 12, I leveled all the way to 24 on pvp kills only. I can't imagine not being level locked!

[Spyderbite]

Siphar wrote:

There is a simple solution: significantly reduce the exp you receive in pvp combat.

No.

Not because of your situation. But, because it will be abused by far many more.

I do however agree.. that after level 30.. PvP experience should stop accumulating. That's the only compromise I can see as potentially realistic.

[Gloommy]

pls off PvP exp!

[Siphar]

You also have to consider pvp faction gear.

I haven't checked the broker recently, however, I can only assume that you cannot get enough faction to buy the gear before you out level it.

Anyone had any issues with this?

[Desna]

Not that it matters, the old world PvP gear is generally a steaming pile of donkey dung. WTB lowbie PvP gear love.

[Kendayar]

People QQ'd over how Fabled equipped players were so much superior (worldwide btw) and this is what happened. I have some treasured pieces of gear that walk all over MC pieces, and I don't even buy MC jewelry anymore on my alts for that reason.

[Bloodfa]

The old PvP stuff available in Qeynos r teh suk.  The irony here, in regards to the XP for killing, is that if it were a similar ratio from 70-80 as it is from 10-20, then nobody would worry about AP's.  70-80 would take all of 2 days.  Capping AP's would take a week.  Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a little.  Or am I?   PvP XP was the chainsaw that we were given when asking for a scalpel. 

[Siphar]

I seriously don't know why people complained so much about locking in the first place.

Exploitation? level locking, gaining raid/fabled gear, maxing AA (for their level), getting M1 spells/CA's, getting PvP gear and killing eachother ?!? on a PVP server ??

What do you think T8 is? exactly this, yet no one complains about the level 80 lockers.

[Bloodfa]

That's because at T8, you could assume that it wasn't somebody who bought the game the day before and got WTFPWNED as soon as he stepped outside.  If you can't handle it in T8, that's fine.  You've moved through the levels and should know what to expect.  I know 3 people on a personal basis who walked away very early on simply because of the initial griefing that was rampant.  If you want to blame somebody, point the fingers at the tools who locked at 14.  Anyone denying it was detrimental to getting new blood either was a griefer or had their eyes closed, because that **** was just unpleasant as a first experience to somebody that was new to the game.  Remember, it wasn't levelling in Gorowyn.  It was Antonica & CL.  Not a whole lot of places to go to level up or get to know the game.  But this is an old debate, with a couple of hundred pages ping-ponging the blame in pages past. 

[Siphar]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

That's because at T8, you could assume that it wasn't somebody who bought the game the day before and got WTFPWNED as soon as he stepped outside.  If you can't handle it in T8, that's fine.  You've moved through the levels and should know what to expect.  I know 3 people on a personal basis who walked away very early on simply because of the initial griefing that was rampant.  If you want to blame somebody, point the fingers at the tools who locked at 14.  Anyone denying it was detrimental to getting new blood either was a griefer or had their eyes closed, because that **** was just unpleasant as a first experience to somebody that was new to the game.  Remember, it wasn't levelling in Gorowyn.  It was Antonica & CL.  Not a whole lot of places to go to level up or get to know the game.  But this is an old debate, with a couple of hundred pages ping-ponging the blame in pages past. 

Yeh, I agree with this. Perhaps removing pvp exp beyond lvl 30 would be a good idea as you suggested. This would give people an opportunity to get used to the game somewhat (then get crushed in EL).

A happy medium can be achieved I believe.

[Bloodfa]

Gahhhh!  Don't confuse me with Spyder!!!!!!!  He said the level 30 thing!

But I'll be honest, removing it at level 31 and reenabling it at 70 (with a higher percentage than it is now) would kill two birds with one stone. 

[fostr]

Just make it so that if you lock your pvp exp, you can only attack others who are locked.And make is so that you can only turn pvp exp on or off at every 10th level. (10,20,30)

If an unlocked groups with a locker, or they attack a locker, they are game.

And give this little message when a player first creates a character : )

Problem fixed.

[DravynX]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

That's because at T8, you could assume that it wasn't somebody who bought the game the day before and got WTFPWNED as soon as he stepped outside.  If you can't handle it in T8, that's fine.  You've moved through the levels and should know what to expect.  I know 3 people on a personal basis who walked away very early on simply because of the initial griefing that was rampant.  If you want to blame somebody, point the fingers at the tools who locked at 14.  Anyone denying it was detrimental to getting new blood either was a griefer or had their eyes closed, because that **** was just unpleasant as a first experience to somebody that was new to the game.  Remember, it wasn't levelling in Gorowyn.  It was Antonica & CL.  Not a whole lot of places to go to level up or get to know the game.  But this is an old debate, with a couple of hundred pages ping-ponging the blame in pages past. 

Exactly. There was a [Removed for Content] good reason for getting rid of level locking, and you can blame the scrubs that couldn't handle t8 pvp for it. There's a massive difference between farming noobs on level locked and fully twinked out 15's and playing t8 pvp, doesn't take more than a brain cell or two to figure it out.

[fostr]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

That's because at T8, you could assume that it wasn't somebody who bought the game the day before and got WTFPWNED as soon as he stepped outside.  If you can't handle it in T8, that's fine.  You've moved through the levels and should know what to expect.  I know 3 people on a personal basis who walked away very early on simply because of the initial griefing that was rampant.  If you want to blame somebody, point the fingers at the tools who locked at 14.  Anyone denying it was detrimental to getting new blood either was a griefer or had their eyes closed, because that **** was just unpleasant as a first experience to somebody that was new to the game.  Remember, it wasn't levelling in Gorowyn.  It was Antonica & CL.  Not a whole lot of places to go to level up or get to know the game.  But this is an old debate, with a couple of hundred pages ping-ponging the blame in pages past. 

I'm sorry but pvp xp hasn't changed anything. You still have a constant stream of experienced pvpers creating new chars to pvp with and you still have a stream of newbs complaining that pvp is too hard. The only thing pvp xp has done is take away options for players.

[Bloodfa]

fostro1 wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

That's because at T8, you could assume that it wasn't somebody who bought the game the day before and got WTFPWNED as soon as he stepped outside.  If you can't handle it in T8, that's fine.  You've moved through the levels and should know what to expect.  I know 3 people on a personal basis who walked away very early on simply because of the initial griefing that was rampant.  If you want to blame somebody, point the fingers at the tools who locked at 14.  Anyone denying it was detrimental to getting new blood either was a griefer or had their eyes closed, because that **** was just unpleasant as a first experience to somebody that was new to the game.  Remember, it wasn't levelling in Gorowyn.  It was Antonica & CL.  Not a whole lot of places to go to level up or get to know the game.  But this is an old debate, with a couple of hundred pages ping-ponging the blame in pages past. 

I'm sorry but pvp xp hasn't changed anything. You still have a constant stream of experienced pvpers creating new chars to pvp with and you still have a stream of newbs complaining that pvp is too hard.

A constant stream of players rerolling toons and regearing them over & over?  In T2?  That's a bit of an exaggeration.  The unintended effect (at least from a players point of view) was the decrease in population of the lower tiers, but that's not what we asked for.  I have to ask, and please don't take it personally, but were you around prior to the 'fix'?  Might help with the perspective if I had an idea.

Now, I rolled an SK a while back, hit 35 with him before deleting his ridiculously overpowered a**.  In TD gear with App I's, at level 14 I mudstomped the crap out of a yellow Swash in full MC gear.  Part of the newbie issue was resolved with TD gear, something that would have gone a long way further than PvP XP.  Bumping the PvP-enable level up to 16 instead of 10 would have been enough of a change combined with the gear and zone addition to keep everybody happy.  As it is now, yes, there are things that could be done to fix the system, but I just don't see that happening.

[Kendayar]

When you raise the immunity level, you only change the tier people start twinking in. There's no need to gear up until you hit the tier you have to twink in. Remember that.

[Kimber]

I started playing this game right after ROK launch that being said I remember the M1 Fabled lv lockers all to well, and IMO it sucked bad.  The problem was being new to the game I did not know all the lil in and outs of how to stay at a low lv and get max aa.  At the time you could not turn of quest and combat exp you had to go die and build up exp debt so you would not gain a lv by turning in quests and get max aa from it.  As for getting MC gear it was pretty easy even then tbh all you had to do was harvest up and TS and you got a portion of your gear tbh my first char was a zerk made him a weps and then promtly made anouther char and made it an arm so I could make at least that gear.  Anyway back to the topic of LV locking the problem was this.  A new player at the time was well behind the power curve for what was needed to be competitive in PvP.  Locking now would be more fesable IMO.  As now even new players are aware of the benifits of turing of quest and combat exp or at least they are told about it or learn about it much sooner.  So bring back lv locking or at least reduce the amount of exp gained from PvP as it will benifit the quality of players in T8 IMO as there will be less lv 80's with 100 aa and no clue about thier class cause they were pushed up in lv due to PvP exp then got caught on the wrong side of the power curve due to lack of aa so they just unlock and rush to 80 and have no clue. 

[Chudder]

I agree with lowering the xp from pvp kills, but I don't think bring the twinks back would be a good idea.  I have played off and on since KoS so had to deal with level lockers and as a new player it wasn't much fun.  I remember the first time I attacked a guy in the Graveyard that who was 1 level lower than me and getting 3 shotted was quite depressing.  It was definately a [Removed for Content] moment for me. 

[DravynX]

fostro1 wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

That's because at T8, you could assume that it wasn't somebody who bought the game the day before and got WTFPWNED as soon as he stepped outside.  If you can't handle it in T8, that's fine.  You've moved through the levels and should know what to expect.  I know 3 people on a personal basis who walked away very early on simply because of the initial griefing that was rampant.  If you want to blame somebody, point the fingers at the tools who locked at 14.  Anyone denying it was detrimental to getting new blood either was a griefer or had their eyes closed, because that **** was just unpleasant as a first experience to somebody that was new to the game.  Remember, it wasn't levelling in Gorowyn.  It was Antonica & CL.  Not a whole lot of places to go to level up or get to know the game.  But this is an old debate, with a couple of hundred pages ping-ponging the blame in pages past. 

I'm sorry but pvp xp hasn't changed anything. You still have a constant stream of experienced pvpers creating new chars to pvp with and you still have a stream of newbs complaining that pvp is too hard. The only thing pvp xp has done is take away options for players.

Enabling pvp xp has had drastic changes on the lower levels, for the better imo. Its nothing like it used to be, as I recently rerolled a new defiler and am experiencing it (again) first hand.

[Kimber]

Good point about that lol I had a few of those myself lol.  Thing is now I think those [Removed for Content] moments would be fewer if they brought back full on lv locking tbh.  Back then you had to work to make it happen now its just turn the stuff off which anyone can figure that out and most of the new players are told to turn it off at 10 and grind out 15 aa points or grind out some cash and get an aa run or two to get thier points.  The only people short on points now are those that rush to 80.  My thoughts on letting the lv lock back is basicly I can earn more aa before I lv if I can turn off all my exp.  My 61 Pally has 102 points or 109 something like that and I will have 140 + before I hit 70 so long as I can avoid some pvp till I get to my aa goal, but I really dont want to avoid the PvP tbh so less exp gain or let me turn it off please.

[Bloodfa]

The suggestion to raise the level was brought up and debated repeatedly back when we looked for a solution.  Along with fixing mentoring.  The problem with level 10 was that it just came way too fast.  People would hit 9, venture outside, ding 10 and die.  Even before the newer zones were introduced, a new player could stumble blindly, do a few quests, and hit 10 by accident.  A lack of a tutorial (of any sort) regarding PvP was another reason for it to cause so much confusion.  Ever read the manual?  Oy, vey, what a debacle.  Most of the things talked about it had no in-game corellation, as the game had changed so much.  This discussion is an old one, with a ton of "good" ideas that were never implemented buried in the old threads.  The potential fixes to make a happy medium were out there before, and they're still there.  Part of the old problem was the "No, you'll never take my playstyle!!!! Nevaaaarrrr!!!!" crowd.  I've noticed that when there's an issue up for debate, and one side is completely unwilling to negotiate, the Devs tend to go against them.  Remember the whole "Exile is the only way you'll ever see all classes working together" argument?  And what happened with that?  I think that when a group tells another group what the devs will never do, it throws a big red flag up in front of a bull. 

So, on that note, I'd be happy to revisit some of those old suggestions and debates.  Worst case scenario would be no change, and a best case scenario ... well, we'd have to wait and see.

[Chulanowa]

fostro1 wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

That's because at T8, you could assume that it wasn't somebody who bought the game the day before and got WTFPWNED as soon as he stepped outside.  If you can't handle it in T8, that's fine.  You've moved through the levels and should know what to expect.  I know 3 people on a personal basis who walked away very early on simply because of the initial griefing that was rampant.  If you want to blame somebody, point the fingers at the tools who locked at 14.  Anyone denying it was detrimental to getting new blood either was a griefer or had their eyes closed, because that **** was just unpleasant as a first experience to somebody that was new to the game.  Remember, it wasn't levelling in Gorowyn.  It was Antonica & CL.  Not a whole lot of places to go to level up or get to know the game.  But this is an old debate, with a couple of hundred pages ping-ponging the blame in pages past. 

I'm sorry but pvp xp hasn't changed anything. You still have a constant stream of experienced pvpers creating new chars to pvp with and you still have a stream of newbs complaining that pvp is too hard. The only thing pvp xp has done is take away options for players.

yes, you have a constant stream of experieinced PvPers making lowbie alts. What you don't have is an impenetrable wall created by those alts that makes it impossible for anyone else to advance or gain PvP knowledge. "Frustration" is not an option that should be considered beneficial for any game.

[Zacarus]

Siphar wrote:

There is a simple solution: significantly reduce the exp you receive in pvp combat.

Haven't we learned our puppet masters rarely revisit issues when existing implementations are, "good enough?"  This complaint is falling on deaf, uninterested ears.  (and on that dour note, i agree 100% with you)ps  anybody who says pvp xp is better than perma-locked pvp = carebearpss  they are probably the same people who like not losing fame when they die

[Kendayar]

We can change things if we complain enough about it. Some things implemented into pvp were as a direct result of QQing to the maximum.

[Bloodfa]

True enough.  But if there's nothing to the crying, no actual basis for it, the changes won't happen.  The speed that PvP XP went from mention to implementation was, for EQ2, near-instantaneous.  I think the majority assumption was that a Dev tried it out anonymously, got rolled and teabagged repeatedly, and busted out the Dev-hammer.  Kinda like hitting a teacher in the eye with a paper airplane.

[Kendayar]

Yes, it takes an entire community to be up in arms about an issue. In recent history, that's how bane warding got nerfed.

[DravynX]

Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:

Siphar wrote:

ps  anybody who says pvp xp is better than perma-locked pvp = carebear

Imo the perma-locked pvpers were the carebears. They preyed on the weak and the unaware and avoided anything that might be potentially cause harm to their precious titles. Sooo much risk in hunting noobs with your twinked out m1/legendary lvl 15's in the most imbalanced pvp tier of the entire game.

[Kendayar]

DravynX wrote:

They preyed on the weak and the unaware

That's a bad thing?

[Bloodfa]

At the entry area to the game?  Yeah.  A little further in, not so much.