You've been entered into combat by...

Chaosretu · 05-13-2009, 02:36 AM

EVERYTHING!

Im so sick of casting something and it enters me into combat! Furthermore I don't know when im engaged in combat! Sure theres the little red swords by my name that is SUPPOSE to say im in combat but i've dropped agro. I know this because my track and evac will light up meaning I could use them however if I try casting my mount? I get entered into combat! I try casting a totem and im entered into combat. I try switching stances to defense and I get entered into combat! I DONT KNOW WHAT ENTERS ME INTO COMBAT! Furthermore I don't know when im in or out of combat.

We need our spells to have a description of saying casting this spell will enter you into pvp combat if you're engaged. Secondly you need a clear way of telling me im not in combat because the current system is broke big time. I actually evaced once and got a no zone timer. Yes....a no zone timer and was attackable. I didn't even know that timer still existed?

We need a actual text message saying you are no longer engaged in combat. If one more thing enters me into combat that has absolutely nothing to do with pvp im gona lose it.

Azol · 05-13-2009, 04:54 AM

We should follow the rules developers still fail to describe and formalize. We have only vague idea of current PVP ruleset developers have implemented into the game after numerous tweaks and changes. PVP ruleset tutorial anyone? How about dedicated PVP developer then? Anyone? Who is here?

Bloodfa · 05-13-2009, 11:23 AM

A red outline around a buff or non-combat item that negates immunity? Or do what I do. Assume everything screws you, and you're gonna get ganked. SMILEY

Wytie · 05-13-2009, 11:35 AM

If someone is attacking you and you do anything other than use directional keys to move.... You should be place in combat for using a defensive action. PERIOD

I understand most of you will disagree with me but in all honesty thats how it should be.

If people want to evac, sprint ect to run away out of combat they should have to do it prior to being engaged by the enemy not while trying to run away after.

truefacts tbh

Bloodfa · 05-13-2009, 12:01 PM

Defensive actions like buffing?

Wytie · 05-13-2009, 12:06 PM

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Defensive actions like buffing?

If your being attacked or your group mates being attack sure.

Buffing triggers procs that can trigger from a benificial spells.

Bloodfa · 05-13-2009, 12:24 PM

I should clarify ... are you meaning that you should immediately enter combat? Or have the countdown timer begin? Because I'd be against one but for the other.

Faenril · 05-13-2009, 12:30 PM

Buffing yourself when a player generated hate against you should put you in combat (and break immunity ofc). Buffing a groupmate, or healing anyone who is on a hostile player's hate list should put you in combat (and break immunity ofc).

Bloodfa · 05-13-2009, 12:42 PM

But the hate list gets buggy sometimes. An indicator that the action would put you in combat is what the OP was looking for, or a clear-cut list of things that will initiate a countdown. I went nuts for a month before realizing that sometimes it was summoning my old mount that would put me in combat as I buffed at revive. "Sorry guys, I was immune, don't know what happened" is a crappy excuse when you get the group wiped with rez sickness at revive in mid-buff.

Paikis · 05-13-2009, 12:48 PM

I personally think that just being attacked should just put you into combat. If you're soloing, then you accept the risk of being attacked by groups.

Bloodfa · 05-13-2009, 01:04 PM

So soloing should be penalized as a style of gameplay? That would just encourage more & more groups hunting solos, until everyone evacs on sight. I mean moreso than it already does.

Brook · 05-13-2009, 01:07 PM

Azol@Nagafen wrote:

We should follow the rules developers still fail to describe and formalize. We have only vague idea of current PVP ruleset developers have implemented into the game after numerous tweaks and changes. PVP ruleset tutorial anyone? How about dedicated PVP developer then? Anyone? Who is here?

The developers only have a vague idea as well.

Wytie · 05-13-2009, 01:18 PM

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

So soloing should be penalized as a style of gameplay? That would just encourage more & more groups hunting solos, until everyone evacs on sight. I mean moreso than it already does.

It already is, it wouldnt be any differnt. Scouts would still evac and non scouts would still be updates for groups.

What would change is the people who do look for solo pvp (exp the non scout classes), actually might be able to kill someone before there target sprints, evacs, flys and zones away, all the while your stuck in combat running at ZERO run speed a sitting duck.

Paikis · 05-13-2009, 01:46 PM

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

So soloing should be penalized as a style of gameplay? That would just encourage more & more groups hunting solos, until everyone evacs on sight. I mean moreso than it already does.

How is that a penalty to soloers? Its a game-wide change that I'd like to see. This would effect small and large groups just as much as soloers. I'd also be happy to see evac removed from pvp servers altogether.

Armironhead · 05-13-2009, 01:55 PM

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

A red outline around a buff or non-combat item that negates immunity? Or do what I do. Assume everything screws you, and you're gonna get ganked.

How about no immunity anywhere outside of your house or ts zone? IMO immunity has been and continues to be the source of a significant percentage of the problems in eq2 pvp. Also how about soe eliminates the difference between incombat and out of combat for pvp. In pvp you are always "incombat" -- if there are problems with some toons running too fast or having things like evac -- instead of going through the twisted contortions to elminate them in combat -- why not just give us tools to mitigate their effects? e.g. faster horses or tinkered devices that prevent evac in a certain range, etc. . .

Bloodfa · 05-13-2009, 02:26 PM

Meh, it doesn't affect me either way. I can evac. Or run. And run with totems. Before hitting sprint or the racial sprint, I'm at +65% while stealthed. My next highest toon is a Fae Warden. Impact on me would be pretty much null. But a solo caster, fighter or non-druid healer would have no choice but to die. You'll understand my skepticism about such changes benefiting all classes equally. Scouts and Druids go back to having an unfair edge in that scenario.

Wait a minute ...

Yeah, let's push for those changes! SMILEY

Armironhead · 05-13-2009, 03:41 PM

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Meh, it doesn't affect me either way. I can evac. Or run. And run with totems. Before hitting sprint or the racial sprint, I'm at +65% while stealthed. My next highest toon is a Fae Warden. Impact on me would be pretty much null. But a solo caster, fighter or non-druid healer would have no choice but to die. You'll understand my skepticism about such changes benefiting all classes equally. Scouts and Druids go back to having an unfair edge in that scenario.
Wait a minute ...
Yeah, let's push for those changes!

only because soe hasnt given us tools to overcome class advantages. Run speed is a prime example -- its clear that run speed is out of wack with mounts -- you can have fast toons in pvp, but there should be a way to catch up such as buying a faster mount. Yet soe has not seen fit to create mounts that keep up with run speed -- now if there was proper proportionailty and itemization -- you could get rid of the difference b/t incombat and out of combat without any toon being unduly advantaged.

Chulanowa · 05-13-2009, 03:54 PM

Armironhead@Vox wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:
A red outline around a buff or non-combat item that negates immunity? Or do what I do. Assume everything screws you, and you're gonna get ganked.
How about no immunity anywhere outside of your house or ts zone? IMO immunity has been and continues to be the source of a significant percentage of the problems in eq2 pvp. Also how about soe eliminates the difference between incombat and out of combat for pvp. In pvp you are always "incombat" -- if there are problems with some toons running too fast or having things like evac -- instead of going through the twisted contortions to elminate them in combat -- why not just give us tools to mitigate their effects? e.g. faster horses or tinkered devices that prevent evac in a certain range, etc. . .

Because nothing says fun like getting ganked at the reviive point over, and over, and over, and over, and over...

Bloodfa · 05-13-2009, 04:02 PM

Emelli@Befallen wrote:

Armironhead@Vox wrote:
Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:
A red outline around a buff or non-combat item that negates immunity? Or do what I do. Assume everything screws you, and you're gonna get ganked.
How about no immunity anywhere outside of your house or ts zone? IMO immunity has been and continues to be the source of a significant percentage of the problems in eq2 pvp. Also how about soe eliminates the difference between incombat and out of combat for pvp. In pvp you are always "incombat" -- if there are problems with some toons running too fast or having things like evac -- instead of going through the twisted contortions to elminate them in combat -- why not just give us tools to mitigate their effects? e.g. faster horses or tinkered devices that prevent evac in a certain range, etc. . .
Because nothing says fun like getting ganked at the reviive point over, and over, and over, and over, and over...

Ah ... good times, good times ...

Kendayar · 05-13-2009, 04:05 PM

Aye, I agree wholeheartedly. When your assassin hits some guy out in the wild, they should be reduced to -100% run speed ( or perma unbreakable-rooted ) and unable to zone whatsoever, all types of mit reduced by 90% so you'll be able to autoattack them to death THEN brag to your friends about how you did it all naked with no buffs. SOE throws you so many bones you can make dinosaur museums with it yet you wouldn't stop until they just gave you /kill to go with your Next PvP Target hotkey. And Occasionally a dev will nerf something useless (read: Reach) to make it look like they give a [Removed for Content]. Don't get it twisted. It's not a rant about killing scouts in pvp - they're very killable (this is a bug). It's a rant about how good they have it and still have something to complain about.

We_want_your_soul · 05-13-2009, 04:59 PM

Vanand@Nagafen wrote:

And Occasionally a dev will nerf something useless (read: Reach) to make it look like they give a [Removed for Content].

Swashbucklers with reach were very overpowered. I know, I had one. Pretty much no melee class stood a chance against a skilled swashie with reach.

Bloodfa · 05-13-2009, 05:04 PM

The annoying thing about Reach being removed from PvP was that nothing was done to replace that line's viability. End-line ability, removed. Kind of what was done to Rangers. Not nerfed, but negated. That's what made it a bitter pill for a lot of people. Overpowered, fine, fix it. But there are volumes on that subject, so I'll not bother going back and digging that horse up just to beat it again.

Elanjar · 05-13-2009, 08:22 PM

Paikis wrote:

I personally think that just being attacked should just put you into combat. If you're soloing, then you accept the risk of being attacked by groups.

The argument goes both ways though. If you're PvPing you accept the penalty of movespeed loss. There should be no reason that someone is not aloud to run away from a fight they havent engaged in.

Maybe you'd just prefer that all classes on pvp servers run at 100% and there is no MS penalty in pvp....

Cyst · 05-13-2009, 08:33 PM

Paikis wrote:

I personally think that just being attacked should just put you into combat. If you're soloing, then you accept the risk of being attacked by groups.

I agree with this. As a caster being put immediately into combat as I'm attacked, would only give me better defense against scouts, on those occasions I'm not paying attention. I've always said I wanted to be put in combat, the second I'm attacked.

Chaosretu · 05-13-2009, 08:35 PM

Look were getting off topic, im talking about things putting you into combat.

When my track and evac pops it means im no longer engaged because I cant use either when in combat however if I try to cast a buff at this point when I dont have red swords by my name I get put into combat. BY EVERYTHING. The only thing that doesnt put me into combat is stealth and track.

My mount, my buffs which have 0 effect on pvp. I once got knocked off a cliff and my lambent imbue proc on the falling damage and I was put into combat. Mounts are the big problem. Almost all classes dont have runspeed so they use mount but pvping on a mount is hard so I just drop it.

Personally I don't mind buffs putting me into combat I actually think they should however we should know WHAT puts you into combat rather the just casting everything to find out. As well as knowing that your completly out of combat.

05-13-2009, 02:36 AM	#1
Chaosretu General Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 260	EVERYTHING! Im so sick of casting something and it enters me into combat! Furthermore I don't know when im engaged in combat! Sure theres the little red swords by my name that is SUPPOSE to say im in combat but i've dropped agro. I know this because my track and evac will light up meaning I could use them however if I try casting my mount? I get entered into combat! I try casting a totem and im entered into combat. I try switching stances to defense and I get entered into combat! I DONT KNOW WHAT ENTERS ME INTO COMBAT! Furthermore I don't know when im in or out of combat. We need our spells to have a description of saying casting this spell will enter you into pvp combat if you're engaged. Secondly you need a clear way of telling me im not in combat because the current system is broke big time. I actually evaced once and got a no zone timer. Yes....a no zone timer and was attackable. I didn't even know that timer still existed? We need a actual text message saying you are no longer engaged in combat. If one more thing enters me into combat that has absolutely nothing to do with pvp im gona lose it. __________________

05-13-2009, 04:54 AM	#2
Azol Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 526	We should follow the rules developers still fail to describe and formalize. We have only vague idea of current PVP ruleset developers have implemented into the game after numerous tweaks and changes. PVP ruleset tutorial anyone? How about dedicated PVP developer then? Anyone? Who is here? __________________

05-13-2009, 11:23 AM	#3
Bloodfa Server: Nagafen General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,873	A red outline around a buff or non-combat item that negates immunity? Or do what I do. Assume everything screws you, and you're gonna get ganked. __________________

05-13-2009, 11:35 AM	#4
Wytie Mouse Betrayer! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,579	If someone is attacking you and you do anything other than use directional keys to move.... You should be place in combat for using a defensive action. PERIOD I understand most of you will disagree with me but in all honesty thats how it should be. If people want to evac, sprint ect to run away out of combat they should have to do it prior to being engaged by the enemy not while trying to run away after. truefacts tbh __________________

05-13-2009, 12:01 PM	#5
Bloodfa Server: Nagafen General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,873	Defensive actions like buffing? __________________

05-13-2009, 12:06 PM	#6
Wytie Mouse Betrayer! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,579	Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: Defensive actions like buffing? If your being attacked or your group mates being attack sure. Buffing triggers procs that can trigger from a benificial spells. __________________

05-13-2009, 12:24 PM	#7
Bloodfa Server: Nagafen General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,873	I should clarify ... are you meaning that you should immediately enter combat? Or have the countdown timer begin? Because I'd be against one but for the other. __________________

05-13-2009, 12:30 PM	#8
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	Buffing yourself when a player generated hate against you should put you in combat (and break immunity ofc). Buffing a groupmate, or healing anyone who is on a hostile player's hate list should put you in combat (and break immunity ofc).

05-13-2009, 12:42 PM	#9
Bloodfa Server: Nagafen General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,873	But the hate list gets buggy sometimes. An indicator that the action would put you in combat is what the OP was looking for, or a clear-cut list of things that will initiate a countdown. I went nuts for a month before realizing that sometimes it was summoning my old mount that would put me in combat as I buffed at revive. "Sorry guys, I was immune, don't know what happened" is a crappy excuse when you get the group wiped with rez sickness at revive in mid-buff. __________________

05-13-2009, 12:48 PM	#10
Paikis Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,254	I personally think that just being attacked should just put you into combat. If you're soloing, then you accept the risk of being attacked by groups. __________________ Kaelas, Necromancer Valindor, Templar Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Berserker Mirbolt, Shadowknight

05-13-2009, 01:04 PM	#11
Bloodfa Server: Nagafen General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,873	So soloing should be penalized as a style of gameplay? That would just encourage more & more groups hunting solos, until everyone evacs on sight. I mean moreso than it already does. __________________

05-13-2009, 01:07 PM	#12
Brook Tester Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,336	Azol@Nagafen wrote: We should follow the rules developers still fail to describe and formalize. We have only vague idea of current PVP ruleset developers have implemented into the game after numerous tweaks and changes. PVP ruleset tutorial anyone? How about dedicated PVP developer then? Anyone? Who is here? The developers only have a vague idea as well. __________________ But seriously, you're the kind of guy that zones into gears without a healer and spends the whole match talking about the fact there isn't a healer instead of contributing. I hate you, and everyone like you that plays this game. Please spend less time whining and more time winning, it contributes to the general growth of the game and makes gameplay more enjoyable for all.

05-13-2009, 01:18 PM	#13
Wytie Mouse Betrayer! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,579	Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: So soloing should be penalized as a style of gameplay? That would just encourage more & more groups hunting solos, until everyone evacs on sight. I mean moreso than it already does. It already is, it wouldnt be any differnt. Scouts would still evac and non scouts would still be updates for groups. What would change is the people who do look for solo pvp (exp the non scout classes), actually might be able to kill someone before there target sprints, evacs, flys and zones away, all the while your stuck in combat running at ZERO run speed a sitting duck. __________________

05-13-2009, 01:46 PM	#14
Paikis Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,254	Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: So soloing should be penalized as a style of gameplay? That would just encourage more & more groups hunting solos, until everyone evacs on sight. I mean moreso than it already does. How is that a penalty to soloers? Its a game-wide change that I'd like to see. This would effect small and large groups just as much as soloers. I'd also be happy to see evac removed from pvp servers altogether. __________________ Kaelas, Necromancer Valindor, Templar Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Berserker Mirbolt, Shadowknight

05-13-2009, 01:55 PM	#15
Armironhead Server: Vox Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,194	Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: A red outline around a buff or non-combat item that negates immunity? Or do what I do. Assume everything screws you, and you're gonna get ganked. How about no immunity anywhere outside of your house or ts zone? IMO immunity has been and continues to be the source of a significant percentage of the problems in eq2 pvp. Also how about soe eliminates the difference between incombat and out of combat for pvp. In pvp you are always "incombat" -- if there are problems with some toons running too fast or having things like evac -- instead of going through the twisted contortions to elminate them in combat -- why not just give us tools to mitigate their effects? e.g. faster horses or tinkered devices that prevent evac in a certain range, etc. . . __________________

05-13-2009, 02:26 PM	#16
Bloodfa Server: Nagafen General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,873	Meh, it doesn't affect me either way. I can evac. Or run. And run with totems. Before hitting sprint or the racial sprint, I'm at +65% while stealthed. My next highest toon is a Fae Warden. Impact on me would be pretty much null. But a solo caster, fighter or non-druid healer would have no choice but to die. You'll understand my skepticism about such changes benefiting all classes equally. Scouts and Druids go back to having an unfair edge in that scenario. Wait a minute ... Yeah, let's push for those changes! __________________

05-13-2009, 03:41 PM	#17
Armironhead Server: Vox Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,194	Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: Meh, it doesn't affect me either way. I can evac. Or run. And run with totems. Before hitting sprint or the racial sprint, I'm at +65% while stealthed. My next highest toon is a Fae Warden. Impact on me would be pretty much null. But a solo caster, fighter or non-druid healer would have no choice but to die. You'll understand my skepticism about such changes benefiting all classes equally. Scouts and Druids go back to having an unfair edge in that scenario. Wait a minute ... Yeah, let's push for those changes! only because soe hasnt given us tools to overcome class advantages. Run speed is a prime example -- its clear that run speed is out of wack with mounts -- you can have fast toons in pvp, but there should be a way to catch up such as buying a faster mount. Yet soe has not seen fit to create mounts that keep up with run speed -- now if there was proper proportionailty and itemization -- you could get rid of the difference b/t incombat and out of combat without any toon being unduly advantaged. __________________

05-13-2009, 03:54 PM	#18
Chulanowa Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 70	Armironhead@Vox wrote: Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: A red outline around a buff or non-combat item that negates immunity? Or do what I do. Assume everything screws you, and you're gonna get ganked. How about no immunity anywhere outside of your house or ts zone? IMO immunity has been and continues to be the source of a significant percentage of the problems in eq2 pvp. Also how about soe eliminates the difference between incombat and out of combat for pvp. In pvp you are always "incombat" -- if there are problems with some toons running too fast or having things like evac -- instead of going through the twisted contortions to elminate them in combat -- why not just give us tools to mitigate their effects? e.g. faster horses or tinkered devices that prevent evac in a certain range, etc. . . Because nothing says fun like getting ganked at the reviive point over, and over, and over, and over, and over...

05-13-2009, 04:02 PM	#19
Bloodfa Server: Nagafen General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,873	Emelli@Befallen wrote: Armironhead@Vox wrote: Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: A red outline around a buff or non-combat item that negates immunity? Or do what I do. Assume everything screws you, and you're gonna get ganked. How about no immunity anywhere outside of your house or ts zone? IMO immunity has been and continues to be the source of a significant percentage of the problems in eq2 pvp. Also how about soe eliminates the difference between incombat and out of combat for pvp. In pvp you are always "incombat" -- if there are problems with some toons running too fast or having things like evac -- instead of going through the twisted contortions to elminate them in combat -- why not just give us tools to mitigate their effects? e.g. faster horses or tinkered devices that prevent evac in a certain range, etc. . . Because nothing says fun like getting ganked at the reviive point over, and over, and over, and over, and over... Ah ... good times, good times ... __________________

05-13-2009, 04:05 PM	#20
Kendayar Lord Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 295	Aye, I agree wholeheartedly. When your assassin hits some guy out in the wild, they should be reduced to -100% run speed ( or perma unbreakable-rooted ) and unable to zone whatsoever, all types of mit reduced by 90% so you'll be able to autoattack them to death THEN brag to your friends about how you did it all naked with no buffs. SOE throws you so many bones you can make dinosaur museums with it yet you wouldn't stop until they just gave you /kill to go with your Next PvP Target hotkey. And Occasionally a dev will nerf something useless (read: Reach) to make it look like they give a [Removed for Content]. Don't get it twisted. It's not a rant about killing scouts in pvp - they're very killable (this is a bug). It's a rant about how good they have it and still have something to complain about. __________________ There is a man riding a horse on my shirt.

05-13-2009, 04:59 PM	#21
We_want_your_soul Loremaster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 194	Vanand@Nagafen wrote: And Occasionally a dev will nerf something useless (read: Reach) to make it look like they give a [Removed for Content]. Swashbucklers with reach were very overpowered. I know, I had one. Pretty much no melee class stood a chance against a skilled swashie with reach.

05-13-2009, 05:04 PM	#22
Bloodfa Server: Nagafen General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,873	The annoying thing about Reach being removed from PvP was that nothing was done to replace that line's viability. End-line ability, removed. Kind of what was done to Rangers. Not nerfed, but negated. That's what made it a bitter pill for a lot of people. Overpowered, fine, fix it. But there are volumes on that subject, so I'll not bother going back and digging that horse up just to beat it again. __________________

05-13-2009, 08:22 PM	#23
Elanjar Server: Nagafen Guild: Gaeas Vigilance Rank: Avatar Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 600	Paikis wrote: I personally think that just being attacked should just put you into combat. If you're soloing, then you accept the risk of being attacked by groups. The argument goes both ways though. If you're PvPing you accept the penalty of movespeed loss. There should be no reason that someone is not aloud to run away from a fight they havent engaged in. Maybe you'd just prefer that all classes on pvp servers run at 100% and there is no MS penalty in pvp....

05-13-2009, 08:33 PM	#24
Cyst Server: Venekor Guild: Circle of Storms Rank: Officer Alt (Raid Capable) Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,609	Paikis wrote: I personally think that just being attacked should just put you into combat. If you're soloing, then you accept the risk of being attacked by groups. I agree with this. As a caster being put immediately into combat as I'm attacked, would only give me better defense against scouts, on those occasions I'm not paying attention. I've always said I wanted to be put in combat, the second I'm attacked.

05-13-2009, 08:35 PM	#25
Chaosretu General Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 260	Look were getting off topic, im talking about things putting you into combat. When my track and evac pops it means im no longer engaged because I cant use either when in combat however if I try to cast a buff at this point when I dont have red swords by my name I get put into combat. BY EVERYTHING. The only thing that doesnt put me into combat is stealth and track. My mount, my buffs which have 0 effect on pvp. I once got knocked off a cliff and my lambent imbue proc on the falling damage and I was put into combat. Mounts are the big problem. Almost all classes dont have runspeed so they use mount but pvping on a mount is hard so I just drop it. Personally I don't mind buffs putting me into combat I actually think they should however we should know WHAT puts you into combat rather the just casting everything to find out. As well as knowing that your completly out of combat. __________________