Lunar Attendant should be raid wide

Banadux · 02-16-2009, 01:04 PM

Looking at the change made recently to the Spiritual Shine of Defilers, I'm thinking that the equivalent Mystic ability is probably supposed to be raid wide as well.

The description indicates that it works on "allies" which in a raid setting should include all members of the raid. The pet casts "beneficial spells" for 20 seconds which as best I can tell are just tiny heals of 150 to 200 at adept III, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think we'd get any imbalance from this pet working raid wide (in the heal radius around the pet).

Currently, again correct me if I'm wrong, nobody uses this spell at all at 80.

Verrie77 · 02-16-2009, 01:24 PM

Correct, I dont use it either.At Master 1 i could get it to heal for 320-370 every 2 sec ish.I tried it out...to see if it healed anything that i wouldnt d better myself....it did one thing....take dmg and die. Make the range 20m and raidwide and ill use it.

lastcapitalist · 02-16-2009, 06:03 PM

This spell is garbage and I would not cast it if it was raid wide anyways.

Fix Ancestry.

graewulf · 02-17-2009, 01:17 AM

I use it quite often. It's not a ton of healing, just a filler. As it is, I have enough gear with beneficial spell haste (and an occasional buff), that I can cast my group ward, single target ward, both single target heals, and my group heal, then have to wait for any one of them to refresh. So, I'll fire off Lunar Attendant too. It can't hurt. It's not a long casting time. Should it give more powerful heals? Absolutely. Should it be raid wide? Sure, why not?

Banditman · 02-17-2009, 11:43 AM

I have no idea what they did to Spiritual Shrine, don't really care.

You know what would make the Attendant line useful? Just make it targetable. If I cast it on a scout in my group, it should follow HIM around, AE healing people near him. Having it stand near me is pretty useless in the situations where I actually need it. Thus, I never use it.

Banadux · 02-17-2009, 06:35 PM

I'm more often than not close enough to the scouts in my group that it heals them as well. While I'm sure other changes to the spell would be good I'm not concerned with changing it, just fixing it.

Lunar Attendant should be healing all allies in range not just the group members in range. They've already fixed the defiler equivalent. I'm just trying to make sure they notice that Mystics have a similar spell needing the same fix.

If later Lunar Attendant becomes more powerful and useful (who knows) that would be great.

AN63LUS · 02-17-2009, 08:15 PM

Banditman wrote:

I have no idea what they did to Spiritual Shrine, don't really care.
You know what would make the Attendant line useful? Just make it targetable. If I cast it on a scout in my group, it should follow HIM around, AE healing people near him. Having it stand near me is pretty useless in the situations where I actually need it. Thus, I never use it.

That is a really awesome idea!! I like it.

I think that it for sure be made raid wide as it seems to be stated in its description already as it is supposed to heal "allies"

Definitely needs to be more useful.

Entarae · 02-26-2009, 03:31 PM

I'm pretty shocked that more mystics aren't talking about this actually. I never post, but I came here to see all the outrage about defiler's new shrine upgrade and i see.... almost none. For those of you that don't know at this point, the shrine provides a regenerating 1000 hp ward to the entire raid (within its radius). This translates to insane heals per second on certain raid fights, bringing a defiler that was parsing around 3k hps to around 4k hps. It does still die to aoes, however it still wards 1k of hps from the aoe that kills it on the raid. If our equivalent spell is supposed to be Lunar Attendant, then that is simply ridiculous. Lunar Attendant parses roughly 15 hps with the mystic aa's and recasted after every aoe (or every time it is up in a group situation). There is not even a comparison, Lunar Attendant is a worthless spell. If all your other heals are down and you are casting attendant, get more reuse. Constructive Suggestion:Making it raidwide is the perfect solution. It still would not be anywhere near as useful as the shrine (since the shrine not only wards, but wards for a ton more than 250-350..) but it would make the spell usable for chokers and to top people off after aoes. I'd really like to see some developer comment on this issue because this spell has been essentially worthless for mystics since i began playing in 2005.

-Phreeki

Thunderthyze · 02-26-2009, 06:51 PM

I have it at M1 and DO use it but tonight was the first time I guaged its effectiveness, or otherwise. We were in Tomb of the Mad Crusader and my dog got hit by an aoe so I pulled him back and cast Lunar Attendant. The only group members close enough to be effected by the bear was me and the dog and I was at 100% health. I can tell you that the health tick on my canine pal was almost invisible to see at 240~280 hps.

Seriously.....what's the point?

Eugam · 02-27-2009, 03:29 AM

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

I have it at M1 and DO use it but tonight was the first time I guaged its effectiveness, or otherwise. We were in Tomb of the Mad Crusader and my dog got hit by an aoe so I pulled him back and cast Lunar Attendant. The only group members close enough to be effected by the bear was me and the dog and I was at 100% health. I can tell you that the health tick on my canine pal was almost invisible to see at 240~280 hps.
Seriously.....what's the point?

So it just needs an increased range ?! Raidwide is maybe a bit much, but with a larger range at least your group could benefit from it.

I usually only use it soloing and i find its heals a bit low too. In groups the bang for the casting time is not really there. I dont know how it is in raids nowadays, but in groups i have usually a heal spell active or use an emergency ward. Power effectiviness isnt really needed anymore in groups.

Thunderthyze · 02-27-2009, 09:32 AM

Eugam wrote:

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:
I have it at M1 and DO use it but tonight was the first time I guaged its effectiveness, or otherwise. We were in Tomb of the Mad Crusader and my dog got hit by an aoe so I pulled him back and cast Lunar Attendant. The only group members close enough to be effected by the bear was me and the dog and I was at 100% health. I can tell you that the health tick on my canine pal was almost invisible to see at 240~280 hps.
Seriously.....what's the point?
So it just needs an increased range ?! Raidwide is maybe a bit much, but with a larger range at least your group could benefit from it.
I usually only use it soloing and i find its heals a bit low too. In groups the bang for the casting time is not really there. I dont know how it is in raids nowadays, but in groups i have usually a heal spell active or use an emergency ward. Power effectiviness isnt really needed anymore in groups.

Sorry, my bad. It was ticking at 240~280 but that was per 2 second interval, so I guess the HPS was more like 130?

Banditman · 02-27-2009, 10:57 AM

Eugam wrote:

So it just needs an increased range ?! Raidwide is maybe a bit much, but with a larger range at least your group could benefit from it.
I usually only use it soloing and i find its heals a bit low too. In groups the bang for the casting time is not really there. I dont know how it is in raids nowadays, but in groups i have usually a heal spell active or use an emergency ward. Power effectiviness isnt really needed anymore in groups.

No, you don't understand. Asking for the spell to be castable raid wide in no way has anything to do with the range on the spell.

What Lunar Attendant does now:

You cast the spell. Targeting is irrelevant, range to target is irrelevant. The spell completes and the Bear / Badger / whatever pops at your feet and starts healing anyone in your group who is within 5m of itself. The Attendant is a limited pet (usually referred to as a dumbfire) that simply follows you around and continues to spam its heal every 2 seconds. After it's duration is up, it disappears. If an AE should happen to go off and hit it, in most circumstances it dies.

What would make Lunar Attendant useful:

Spell becomes targeted, 25m range (buff range). Valid targets are "Raid Friend". You cast the spell. The Attendant appears at the feet of your target, and follows your target around, healing anyone in the raid who is within 10m.

I'd move that spell to my primary heal hotbar. Right now I don't have the spell on any hotbar.

Gisallo · 02-28-2009, 06:42 AM

Banditman wrote:

Eugam wrote:
So it just needs an increased range ?! Raidwide is maybe a bit much, but with a larger range at least your group could benefit from it.
I usually only use it soloing and i find its heals a bit low too. In groups the bang for the casting time is not really there. I dont know how it is in raids nowadays, but in groups i have usually a heal spell active or use an emergency ward. Power effectiviness isnt really needed anymore in groups.
No, you don't understand. Asking for the spell to be castable raid wide in no way has anything to do with the range on the spell.
What Lunar Attendant does now:
You cast the spell. Targeting is irrelevant, range to target is irrelevant. The spell completes and the Bear / Badger / whatever pops at your feet and starts healing anyone in your group who is within 5m of itself. The Attendant is a limited pet (usually referred to as a dumbfire) that simply follows you around and continues to spam its heal every 2 seconds. After it's duration is up, it disappears. If an AE should happen to go off and hit it, in most circumstances it dies.
What would make Lunar Attendant useful:
Spell becomes targeted, 25m range (buff range). Valid targets are "Raid Friend". You cast the spell. The Attendant appears at the feet of your target, and follows your target around, healing anyone in the raid who is within 10m.
I'd move that spell to my primary heal hotbar. Right now I don't have the spell on any hotbar.

I think this would work if they also made it like dog dog when speced for "non-direct AoE immune" and maybe upped the heal just a bit.

My biggest problem is I am either OT or Melee dps group. In the OT group the AoE immunity would make it worth it as long as there were some extra heals on in too. Melee dps is a pain in the neck because I have a ranger with me usually and with some of the big hit box mobs I need to joust to keep everyone up because he's WAY in the back. If I could sic this on him I'd be much happier.

Entarae · 02-28-2009, 04:04 PM

Making it targetted will not be sufficient for me to use this spell. Its total heal amount is still completely worthless, that's the issue here. If it healed for 1-1.3k at master level, it'd be fine just as it is because it could heal me and whoever i'm standing near for enough to be useful. Alternatively, you could leave it healing 250-350 and make it raidwide. This would produce roughly the same numbers. Making it targettable simply makes it follow someone else around and still be worthless.

-Phreeki

AN63LUS · 02-28-2009, 08:46 PM

Entarae wrote:

Making it targetted will not be sufficient for me to use this spell. Its total heal amount is still completely worthless, that's the issue here. If it healed for 1-1.3k at master level, it'd be fine just as it is because it could heal me and whoever i'm standing near for enough to be useful. Alternatively, you could leave it healing 250-350 and make it raidwide. This would produce roughly the same numbers. Making it targettable simply makes it follow someone else around and still be worthless.

-Phreeki

I completely agree with this. It needs to heal for at least 1-1.3k a tick to even be useful at level 80. And 5m range is useless. Most encounters people are not standing right on top of each other. I started feedbacking this about a week ago daily. If more people do this hopefully we will have a spell worthwhile. We just don't seem to have much interaction with a developer on this forum from what I've seen :/

Banadux · 03-02-2009, 02:31 PM

Just throwing in a bump. A lot of good ideas out there. I think the heal size specifically should get upgraded along with whatever else is decided. Basically any change would be better than what we have now and it's not an unreasonable request to get this fixed in light of the spiritual shrine fix.

Banditman · 03-02-2009, 04:46 PM

Just some background information for those who are wanting the value of the heal increased.

For some reason, unknown to all, SOE values HP replacement (true Heals) much higher than Warding. Thus, you see that a Ward is the biggest "Heal" in the game. I'm not sure if we are going to convince them otherwise. In fact, I'm sure we won't. They feel that the "value" of Attendant is balanced against Shrine.

Functionality however, is a different ball of wax.

There are plenty of examples of "targetable" heals like we've described here, the most obvious one is Vampirism.

Entarae · 03-04-2009, 11:10 AM

Banditman wrote:

Just some background information for those who are wanting the value of the heal increased.
For some reason, unknown to all, SOE values HP replacement (true Heals) much higher than Warding. Thus, you see that a Ward is the biggest "Heal" in the game. I'm not sure if we are going to convince them otherwise. In fact, I'm sure we won't. They feel that the "value" of Attendant is balanced against Shrine.
Functionality however, is a different ball of wax.
There are plenty of examples of "targetable" heals like we've described here, the most obvious one is Vampirism.

I understand this concept. However, if we examine the numbers, we have shrine warding for 3x the amount (or slightly more) than the heal of the attendant, and on top of that we have it warding the entire raid. In order to determine the effectiveness, 3x the heals on 4x the groups = 12x as effective as out attendant. Now, the assumption here is that the heal/wards are effective, meaning there is damage there to heal/ward. But chances are, since wards are more efficient than heals, the shrine is actually getting MORE of the damage and preventing my attendant from healing, even on my own group. So even if i had 12 attendants casted at the same time, chances are his 1 shrine will STILL be healing for more than all my attendants combined.

Was this intended? I highly doubt it, and if it was... one of the dev's plays a defiler. My suggestions still stand as solutions to this issue. By increasing the amount of the heal itself and not making it raid wide, we are still looking at 1/4 the power of the shrine (or less), which i would be totally fine with and actually might make this spell useful. Alternatively, making it raid wide and leaving the heal amount at 250-350 would be about 1/3 as effective (or less), also a very welcomed change and finally makes the spell useful.

Either way you look at the solutions, they will still be in line with the whole "wards must be bigger" aspect. Actually, making either one of these changes still leaves the shrine as being many more times powerful than the attendant

Banditman, I would be interested to know the source of this information: "They feel that the "value" of Attendant is balanced against Shrine.", who said it where and when?

Entarae · 03-10-2009, 06:45 AM

After waiting a sufficient amount of time (and seeing you post elsewhere), I am forced to assume that no one actually said this. And I should hope not because it would be a silly thing to say.I really love the way the new defiler temp pet is. It's a spell that is useful,actually requires timing, and the timing is encounter dependent. This adds more elements to the gameplay; it was an excellent change for defilers. If they added aoe immune to their pet or ours, it would reduce the complexity of using the spell and make it far less enjoyable. Why not just give me an aoe HoT?

If Lunar Attendant was raid wide, it would be the other side of the defiler's coin. I forsee the defiler's pet being used to ward the raid before aoes, and our pet being used to heal the raid after the aoes. This would actually give us a timing dependent (and thus more enjoyable) spell and allow all the Mystics to actually use lunar attendant in a raid setting. If you are using the attendant while raiding a difficult named in either OT or MT position, you are not serving your raid as well as you could be. Simple as that.

Bottom line: Make this spell usable. I'm willing to overlook Ancestral Balm (which also could have been an enjoyable, situation dependent spell) but i'm really not willing to overlook both of these spells being useless. That is why I have come here to get ideas and discussion from the Mystic community and hopefully get a dev to comment on their reasoning and the state of the situation. I am encouraging anyone reading this to post if you agree with my reasoning, and if you do not please post why. I'd like to get some traffic to this topic and draw some attention.

Malcomb · 03-11-2009, 03:26 PM

I think the bottom line is theres no way to justify why the defiler shrine shouuld be revamped, but NOT the mystic Attendant.

As it stands, the Attendant is one of the most useless spells. I don't think anyone will debate that fact.

I think many of the previous posts were spot on, and suggest the Lunar Attendant gets changed in the following ways:

1. Increase in how much it heals

2. Immunity to non direct AoE's (maybe it only gets this if you take the str end line)

3. Raid wide.

4. Bigger range.

At this point I would consider 2/4 a nice gesture, but missing the boat on making it a viable spell. 3/4 would make it a lot better, but still not great. 4/4 would make this a spell worth using and a good healing tool.

Arcanemundi · 03-11-2009, 04:48 PM

Balance is the key to keeping the peace between Defilers, Mystics, and SOE. Before the last expansion came out, the Defilers were all up in arms after SOE informed the gaming community that Mystics will have an HP buff in Shadow AA Trees, and Defilers a STA buff. Mystics already were not able to buff HP as well as Defilers, so I think that change made the classes a bit more balanced for high end raiding than they were before. However, I believe enough Defilers poked enough devs in the ribs after that which led to the shrine change being introduced. It was a bone SOE threw out there to calm the Defilers down. Although, quite a few of us now feel cheated that SOE has given the Defilers more tools to heal with than the Mystics once again.

Based on the AA changes, stats, and class raid gear that SOE has given Mystics for the last year or so it has seemed obvious to me that SOE wants the Mystic class to be more melee based and more dynamic of a class than the Defilers are. While this can be useful in pick up grouping/raiding and messing around soloing, I think it is not that useful to high end players in raiding guilds with multiple accounts that are the bread and butter of the SOE income base.

It is hard to figure out what SOE is thinking at any time, but it seems like they think Mystics are balanced with Defilers since we have more DPS abilities or procs that function off our DPS. When I am in raid, I focus only on healing. When I lose someone, I never feel like it was my fault, I did my best to keep them alive. If I DPS instead of heal and loose someone, I feel like I made a serious mistake. So, I am not sure why SOE believes as healers, Mystics would feel comfortable with the changes they have made to our class. One example of this is the Savage Healing DPS proc off a couple pieces of the latest TSO raid gear. Most of the higher end mobs have nasty damage shields and some even port you around when you attack them, so the last thing I want to do is risk getting hit with the damage shield for a small heal from Savage Healing, which makes it useless for raiding. When I see a Defiler's heal parse on a boss fight I wonder if they had as hard of a time as I did healing. I am now forced to conclude that they didn't, since they have more tools to use for healing than I do.

Years ago when I picked a Mystic, instead of a Defiler, as my main toon, looking at the spells back then I assumed there would only be small differences in how we heal, or how we buff, but I never imagined that SOE would be so biased towards Defilers as they have been. In my experience as a Mystic speaking with other players in the game, I have found it is a common opinion that Defilers and Mystics are not even comparable when it comes to healing abilities. This is an inaccurate and a negative attitude to have since it is also the player, and not just the class of healer, that determines how well the performance is in raid. When I challenge the assumption that Mystics are less of a healer than Defilers the first thing I hear is the healing buff argument, then the Death Ward argument, then the immunity to Stun argument, so this derogatory attitude in game is definitely a direct result from SOE's bias towards the Defiler class over the past couple years.

If SOE wants to make play politics and throw the Defilers a bone to calm them down, then throw us one too. Make Lunar Attendant a pet that is useful, instead of a throw away spell we cast when we got nothing better to do. I usually don't cast Lunar Attendant during hard raid fights since I value wards, heals, cures, and debuffs more. Give it a unique ability like group or raid wide immunities, or make it like a group or raid wide RoA that gives a temporary boost to casting speed and reuse, this way the Defilers will not be able to say it is better, and the Mystics say it is worse, since you cannot calculate and compare the benefits. Alternatively, Oberon Barrier could also be amped up to ward for twice as much as it does to make it a true barrier. I hardly even use Oberon Barrier either.

craazygi · 03-11-2009, 05:00 PM

i have heard ppl say that the defiler shrine got upgraged cus of savagehealing or so they seem to think what those ppl fail to realize is savagehealing is completly useless in fights where extra healing counts. that being said i would like to see the bear go to raid wide with closer to 350-450 heals and increase the range to at least 15 meters. also someone compaired ancestral balm to this that is not even close balm is usefull in alot of situations one being where the tank get chainstunned/interupted which happenes quit abit not enough to make a spell usefull but still gives it some use also it is great for affects that kb u as u can eather cure your self or usually more importantly your tank as u are flying. and lastly it helps sometimes when u can chase or be jousting while cureing i have always loved this spell and use as much as i can.

Leza · 03-11-2009, 09:14 PM

quote from earlier:

I think many of the previous posts were spot on, and suggest the Lunar Attendant gets changed in the following ways:

1. Increase in how much it heals

2. Immunity to non direct AoE's (maybe it only gets this if you take the str end line)

3. Raid wide.

4. Bigger range.

At this point I would consider 2/4 a nice gesture, but missing the boat on making it a viable spell. 3/4 would make it a lot better, but still not great. 4/4 would make this a spell worth using and a good healing tool.

My input: Amen, and let it be so.

Entarae · 03-12-2009, 01:46 AM

ArcaneMundi's post is pretty much directly on target. Savage healing is a very cool proc. It's fun for soloing, it's great for a peice or two if I am dpsing in a group zone or on some trash. But it is worthless for high end raid content. So why is it all over our high end raid set? It'd be much more suited to be on some legendary gear, since it will only be used in a casual manner. I don't know about anyone else, but I focus on what I am doing. If I need to heal, i'm only healing. Now, this is somewhat off topic, but it's important to realize that in the scheme of things, this is a casual proc for mystics. It has nothing to do with increasing our raid effectiveness when it counts (on a difficult encounter). So if what ArcaneMundi is saying is correct, and defilers got the shrine beef because of savage healing, then that was a nice swindle on their part.

I don't think having the bear be immune to aoe is such a great idea (due to the complexity aspect i was talking about in a previous post), but the other 3 suggestions laid out are not unreasonable. Making all 3 of those seems like a major OP change, but when you consider how truely low the bear's healing potential is, you realize that it'll take a pretty drastic boost to make him useful at all.

-Phreeki

attila · 03-12-2009, 02:02 AM

I removed it from my panel for so long time, so i didnt remember what they do. Sach as half of "deebaff"

Banadux · 03-12-2009, 02:46 AM

Leza@Blackburrow wrote:

quote from earlier:
I think many of the previous posts were spot on, and suggest the Lunar Attendant gets changed in the following ways:
1. Increase in how much it heals
2. Immunity to non direct AoE's (maybe it only gets this if you take the str end line)
3. Raid wide.
4. Bigger range.
At this point I would consider 2/4 a nice gesture, but missing the boat on making it a viable spell. 3/4 would make it a lot better, but still not great. 4/4 would make this a spell worth using and a good healing tool.
My input: Amen, and let it be so.

/agree

Ceolus · 03-13-2009, 06:56 AM

I would like to note that the base of Spiritual Shrine at Master 1 is 681 and the tick on it is 5 seconds (recast 2 minutes. Can be reduced by 20 seconds via 5 AA points). Lunar attendant at Master 1 has a base of ~450 and ticks every 4 seconds (recast 1 minute. Can be reduced by 15 seconds via 5 AA points). I'd say it's a fair trade-off. Increasing the size is a little much...

Also, Spiritual Shrine only has one limited-in-size use per AOE because the only logical use is to cast it BEFORE an AOE and because it dies after the AOE. Lunar attendant can keep healing and healing until everyone is in green after the AOE as it's a type of spell that would be cast AFTER an AOE. You can also joust with it. Spiritual shrine stays where it's placed.

The spells are not equivalents and do not have to be treated the same for every change. Spiritual shrine has stated "wards nearby raidmembers" (while lunar attendant has not) since the beginning..this change was therefore a fix to its intended purpose. Defilers and mystics are not the same class. There are many mystic spells defilers would petition for if the classes were treated as equals by Devs.

Entarae · 03-13-2009, 03:07 PM

Ceolus wrote:

I would like to note that the base of Spiritual Shrine at Master 1 is 681 and the tick on it is 5 seconds (recast 2 minutes. Can be reduced by 20 seconds via 5 AA points). Lunar attendant at Master 1 has a base of ~450 and ticks every 4 seconds (recast 1 minute. Can be reduced by 15 seconds via 5 AA points). I'd say it's a fair trade-off. Increasing the size is a little much...
Also, Spiritual Shrine only has one limited-in-size use per AOE because the only logical use is to cast it BEFORE an AOE and because it dies after the AOE. Lunar attendant can keep healing and healing until everyone is in green after the AOE as it's a type of spell that would be cast AFTER an AOE. You can also joust with it. Spiritual shrine stays where it's placed.
The spells are not equivalents and do not have to be treated the same for every change. Spiritual shrine has stated "wards nearby raidmembers" (while lunar attendant has not) since the beginning..this change was therefore a fix to its intended purpose. Defilers and mystics are not the same class. There are many mystic spells defilers would petition for if the classes were treated as equals by Devs.

Ah yes, was waiting for this one. Welcome to the mystic forums.I would like to point out that your numbers are wrong. These numbers come from Wednsday's raid in Palace of the Ancient One. Specifically, we'll examine the Penta fight since it has 1 aoe on a regular timer and will be good for parsing these two spells. Both spells are at Master level.Spell Min Hit Max Hit Average Hit Total Heals Per SecondSpiritual Shrine 1 998 825.11 506.07

Lunar Attendant 19 368 297.47 45 .13These are the results of casting the shrine before every aoe (that it is up) and casting attendant after every aoe (that it is up).

"I'd say it's a fair trade-off." Yeah, you would say that.

Mathematically, I was showing these numbers earlier without concrete parses. If we take the averages, shrine is roughly 2.5x the heal, and this gives us 45.13 x 2.5 = 112.825. Shrine is healing 4x the groups, so that gives us 4 x 112.825 = 451.3. With a larger sample size, I expect we'd see shrine being roughly 11x - 11.5x as powerful as attendant on every raid named. Now, i'd also like to address the ticks of each spell (5 vs 4). Each time your shrine ticks, you will be able to heal for 1k at any point in the next 5 seconds. Each time our attendant ticks, it is healing at that exact moment and only the damage that has not been healed in the last 4 seconds. I don't know about yours, but my group heal takes a little over 1 second to cast and heals roughly 40% of the groups hps. There will not be very much, if any at all, damage for my bear to take every 4 seconds. But your shrine can eat all it wants.

Now I want to address this comment :

"Lunar attendant can keep healing and healing until everyone is in green after the AOE"

With a 20 second duration, we have a total of 5 ticks. Using our max hit from above, 5 x 368 = 1,840 hps. You must have very, very few hitpoints if that puts you green. And the other healers in your group must really be slacking.

I don't want them to be comparable. I don't want them to be the same. I want Lunar Attendant to be useful. The devs made this spell useful for defilers. Why not make it useful for Mystics? All arguments made thus far are pointing out why attendant is not useful using shrine as a sounding board (because it IS useful).

We mystics always appreciate the input of a Defiler, but please approach this with an open mind and accurate information.

-Phreeki

Banadux · 03-13-2009, 08:59 PM

Adept III Lunar Attendant - Tested using training dummy + my fiances brigang chokering down

Min. 283

Max. 333

Avg. 307

Heals per cast = 6

Total heals tested: 36

Total crits: 1 (~ 3%)

3 casts with the T2 8% mod from shoulders (56% crit) and 3 fights were without the shoulders (53% crit). The last three casts without the T2 shoulders were actually higher in average than the first 3 and also provided the highest heal of 333.

If Ceolus is accurate in 681 being the base for spiritual shrine and Phreeki is accurate in his parse numbers, then Spiritual Shrine must be affected by base heal mod on the caster, and probably the crit amount of the caster as well.

681 ward + 8% base = 735 ward + 15% crit = 845 ward

Since Phreeki parsed a 998 max hit. I'll assume their defiler has 10% on shoulders and procced the DMG effect.

681 ward + 15% base = 783 ward + 15% crit = 900 ward

There are either a few other heal mod effects (the arm, or totem perhaps?) I don't know about affecting spiritual shrine OR the base heal amount is much higher than 681. I only have the totem and it did not proc during testing.

Entarae · 03-13-2009, 09:29 PM

I'm not sure where his numbers come from. When I asked my guild defiler about it after the change, he said it was 1k per tick. My numbers pretty much confirm that, just under 1k. I'm not sure if it is effected by +heal/crit/base, but i'd say right off hand that none of these values change our temp pet's values. If that were the case, conjis/necros temp pets would also be effected by their values and I don't think that's the case. I'm currently working under the assumption that the base amount of the shrine is somewhere just under 1k, 950-999. I'm also assuming the base amount for the bear is 275-375 (i've never seen it heal for 400, much less 450). Both of these at master level.

02-16-2009, 01:04 PM	#1
Banadux Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 165	Looking at the change made recently to the Spiritual Shine of Defilers, I'm thinking that the equivalent Mystic ability is probably supposed to be raid wide as well. The description indicates that it works on "allies" which in a raid setting should include all members of the raid. The pet casts "beneficial spells" for 20 seconds which as best I can tell are just tiny heals of 150 to 200 at adept III, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think we'd get any imbalance from this pet working raid wide (in the heal radius around the pet). Currently, again correct me if I'm wrong, nobody uses this spell at all at 80. __________________ Gochum [The Bazaar] - Necromancer http://www.gamespanker.com/everquest2 Support site (listings, forum, statistics) for Live Exchange on The Bazaar and Vox

02-16-2009, 01:24 PM	#2
Verrie77 Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 570	Correct, I dont use it either.At Master 1 i could get it to heal for 320-370 every 2 sec ish.I tried it out...to see if it healed anything that i wouldnt d better myself....it did one thing....take dmg and die. Make the range 20m and raidwide and ill use it. __________________ 89 Warden : Nelfia

02-17-2009, 01:17 AM	#4
graewulf Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 195	I use it quite often. It's not a ton of healing, just a filler. As it is, I have enough gear with beneficial spell haste (and an occasional buff), that I can cast my group ward, single target ward, both single target heals, and my group heal, then have to wait for any one of them to refresh. So, I'll fire off Lunar Attendant too. It can't hurt. It's not a long casting time. Should it give more powerful heals? Absolutely. Should it be raid wide? Sure, why not? __________________ 80 Wood Elf Ranger 80 Barbarian Mystic 80 Half-elf Shadowknight .....too many others to list... Cohort Chalybeius, Crushbone server

02-17-2009, 11:43 AM	#5
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	I have no idea what they did to Spiritual Shrine, don't really care. You know what would make the Attendant line useful? Just make it targetable. If I cast it on a scout in my group, it should follow HIM around, AE healing people near him. Having it stand near me is pretty useless in the situations where I actually need it. Thus, I never use it. __________________

02-17-2009, 06:35 PM	#6
Banadux Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 165	I'm more often than not close enough to the scouts in my group that it heals them as well. While I'm sure other changes to the spell would be good I'm not concerned with changing it, just fixing it. Lunar Attendant should be healing all allies in range not just the group members in range. They've already fixed the defiler equivalent. I'm just trying to make sure they notice that Mystics have a similar spell needing the same fix. If later Lunar Attendant becomes more powerful and useful (who knows) that would be great. __________________ Gochum [The Bazaar] - Necromancer http://www.gamespanker.com/everquest2 Support site (listings, forum, statistics) for Live Exchange on The Bazaar and Vox

02-16-2009, 06:03 PM	#3
lastcapitalist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 14	This spell is garbage and I would not cast it if it was raid wide anyways. Fix Ancestry.

02-17-2009, 08:15 PM	#7
AN63LUS Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 57	Banditman wrote: I have no idea what they did to Spiritual Shrine, don't really care. You know what would make the Attendant line useful? Just make it targetable. If I cast it on a scout in my group, it should follow HIM around, AE healing people near him. Having it stand near me is pretty useless in the situations where I actually need it. Thus, I never use it. That is a really awesome idea!! I like it. I think that it for sure be made raid wide as it seems to be stated in its description already as it is supposed to heal "allies" Definitely needs to be more useful. __________________ ~Avi Inatta~level 80 Mystic

02-26-2009, 03:31 PM	#8
Entarae Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9	I'm pretty shocked that more mystics aren't talking about this actually. I never post, but I came here to see all the outrage about defiler's new shrine upgrade and i see.... almost none. For those of you that don't know at this point, the shrine provides a regenerating 1000 hp ward to the entire raid (within its radius). This translates to insane heals per second on certain raid fights, bringing a defiler that was parsing around 3k hps to around 4k hps. It does still die to aoes, however it still wards 1k of hps from the aoe that kills it on the raid. If our equivalent spell is supposed to be Lunar Attendant, then that is simply ridiculous. Lunar Attendant parses roughly 15 hps with the mystic aa's and recasted after every aoe (or every time it is up in a group situation). There is not even a comparison, Lunar Attendant is a worthless spell. If all your other heals are down and you are casting attendant, get more reuse. Constructive Suggestion:Making it raidwide is the perfect solution. It still would not be anywhere near as useful as the shrine (since the shrine not only wards, but wards for a ton more than 250-350..) but it would make the spell usable for chokers and to top people off after aoes. I'd really like to see some developer comment on this issue because this spell has been essentially worthless for mystics since i began playing in 2005. -Phreeki

02-26-2009, 06:51 PM	#9
Thunderthyze Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 2,050	I have it at M1 and DO use it but tonight was the first time I guaged its effectiveness, or otherwise. We were in Tomb of the Mad Crusader and my dog got hit by an aoe so I pulled him back and cast Lunar Attendant. The only group members close enough to be effected by the bear was me and the dog and I was at 100% health. I can tell you that the health tick on my canine pal was almost invisible to see at 240~280 hps. Seriously.....what's the point? __________________

02-27-2009, 03:29 AM	#10
Eugam Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,403	Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote: I have it at M1 and DO use it but tonight was the first time I guaged its effectiveness, or otherwise. We were in Tomb of the Mad Crusader and my dog got hit by an aoe so I pulled him back and cast Lunar Attendant. The only group members close enough to be effected by the bear was me and the dog and I was at 100% health. I can tell you that the health tick on my canine pal was almost invisible to see at 240~280 hps. Seriously.....what's the point? So it just needs an increased range ?! Raidwide is maybe a bit much, but with a larger range at least your group could benefit from it. I usually only use it soloing and i find its heals a bit low too. In groups the bang for the casting time is not really there. I dont know how it is in raids nowadays, but in groups i have usually a heal spell active or use an emergency ward. Power effectiviness isnt really needed anymore in groups.

02-27-2009, 09:32 AM	#11
Thunderthyze Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 2,050	Eugam wrote: Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote: I have it at M1 and DO use it but tonight was the first time I guaged its effectiveness, or otherwise. We were in Tomb of the Mad Crusader and my dog got hit by an aoe so I pulled him back and cast Lunar Attendant. The only group members close enough to be effected by the bear was me and the dog and I was at 100% health. I can tell you that the health tick on my canine pal was almost invisible to see at 240~280 hps. Seriously.....what's the point? So it just needs an increased range ?! Raidwide is maybe a bit much, but with a larger range at least your group could benefit from it. I usually only use it soloing and i find its heals a bit low too. In groups the bang for the casting time is not really there. I dont know how it is in raids nowadays, but in groups i have usually a heal spell active or use an emergency ward. Power effectiviness isnt really needed anymore in groups. Sorry, my bad. It was ticking at 240~280 but that was per 2 second interval, so I guess the HPS was more like 130? __________________

02-27-2009, 10:57 AM	#12
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	Eugam wrote: So it just needs an increased range ?! Raidwide is maybe a bit much, but with a larger range at least your group could benefit from it. I usually only use it soloing and i find its heals a bit low too. In groups the bang for the casting time is not really there. I dont know how it is in raids nowadays, but in groups i have usually a heal spell active or use an emergency ward. Power effectiviness isnt really needed anymore in groups. No, you don't understand. Asking for the spell to be castable raid wide in no way has anything to do with the range on the spell. What Lunar Attendant does now: You cast the spell. Targeting is irrelevant, range to target is irrelevant. The spell completes and the Bear / Badger / whatever pops at your feet and starts healing anyone in your group who is within 5m of itself. The Attendant is a limited pet (usually referred to as a dumbfire) that simply follows you around and continues to spam its heal every 2 seconds. After it's duration is up, it disappears. If an AE should happen to go off and hit it, in most circumstances it dies. What would make Lunar Attendant useful: Spell becomes targeted, 25m range (buff range). Valid targets are "Raid Friend". You cast the spell. The Attendant appears at the feet of your target, and follows your target around, healing anyone in the raid who is within 10m. I'd move that spell to my primary heal hotbar. Right now I don't have the spell on any hotbar. __________________

02-28-2009, 06:42 AM	#13
Gisallo Server: Lucan DLere Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,910	Banditman wrote: Eugam wrote: So it just needs an increased range ?! Raidwide is maybe a bit much, but with a larger range at least your group could benefit from it. I usually only use it soloing and i find its heals a bit low too. In groups the bang for the casting time is not really there. I dont know how it is in raids nowadays, but in groups i have usually a heal spell active or use an emergency ward. Power effectiviness isnt really needed anymore in groups. No, you don't understand. Asking for the spell to be castable raid wide in no way has anything to do with the range on the spell. What Lunar Attendant does now: You cast the spell. Targeting is irrelevant, range to target is irrelevant. The spell completes and the Bear / Badger / whatever pops at your feet and starts healing anyone in your group who is within 5m of itself. The Attendant is a limited pet (usually referred to as a dumbfire) that simply follows you around and continues to spam its heal every 2 seconds. After it's duration is up, it disappears. If an AE should happen to go off and hit it, in most circumstances it dies. What would make Lunar Attendant useful: Spell becomes targeted, 25m range (buff range). Valid targets are "Raid Friend". You cast the spell. The Attendant appears at the feet of your target, and follows your target around, healing anyone in the raid who is within 10m. I'd move that spell to my primary heal hotbar. Right now I don't have the spell on any hotbar. I think this would work if they also made it like dog dog when speced for "non-direct AoE immune" and maybe upped the heal just a bit. My biggest problem is I am either OT or Melee dps group. In the OT group the AoE immunity would make it worth it as long as there were some extra heals on in too. Melee dps is a pain in the neck because I have a ranger with me usually and with some of the big hit box mobs I need to joust to keep everyone up because he's WAY in the back. If I could sic this on him I'd be much happier. __________________

02-28-2009, 04:04 PM	#14
Entarae Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9	Making it targetted will not be sufficient for me to use this spell. Its total heal amount is still completely worthless, that's the issue here. If it healed for 1-1.3k at master level, it'd be fine just as it is because it could heal me and whoever i'm standing near for enough to be useful. Alternatively, you could leave it healing 250-350 and make it raidwide. This would produce roughly the same numbers. Making it targettable simply makes it follow someone else around and still be worthless. -Phreeki

02-28-2009, 08:46 PM	#15
AN63LUS Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 57	Entarae wrote: Making it targetted will not be sufficient for me to use this spell. Its total heal amount is still completely worthless, that's the issue here. If it healed for 1-1.3k at master level, it'd be fine just as it is because it could heal me and whoever i'm standing near for enough to be useful. Alternatively, you could leave it healing 250-350 and make it raidwide. This would produce roughly the same numbers. Making it targettable simply makes it follow someone else around and still be worthless. -Phreeki I completely agree with this. It needs to heal for at least 1-1.3k a tick to even be useful at level 80. And 5m range is useless. Most encounters people are not standing right on top of each other. I started feedbacking this about a week ago daily. If more people do this hopefully we will have a spell worthwhile. We just don't seem to have much interaction with a developer on this forum from what I've seen :/ __________________ ~Avi Inatta~level 80 Mystic

03-02-2009, 02:31 PM	#16
Banadux Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 165	Just throwing in a bump. A lot of good ideas out there. I think the heal size specifically should get upgraded along with whatever else is decided. Basically any change would be better than what we have now and it's not an unreasonable request to get this fixed in light of the spiritual shrine fix. __________________ Gochum [The Bazaar] - Necromancer http://www.gamespanker.com/everquest2 Support site (listings, forum, statistics) for Live Exchange on The Bazaar and Vox

03-02-2009, 04:46 PM	#17
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	Just some background information for those who are wanting the value of the heal increased. For some reason, unknown to all, SOE values HP replacement (true Heals) much higher than Warding. Thus, you see that a Ward is the biggest "Heal" in the game. I'm not sure if we are going to convince them otherwise. In fact, I'm sure we won't. They feel that the "value" of Attendant is balanced against Shrine. Functionality however, is a different ball of wax. There are plenty of examples of "targetable" heals like we've described here, the most obvious one is Vampirism. __________________

03-04-2009, 11:10 AM	#18
Entarae Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9	Banditman wrote: Just some background information for those who are wanting the value of the heal increased. For some reason, unknown to all, SOE values HP replacement (true Heals) much higher than Warding. Thus, you see that a Ward is the biggest "Heal" in the game. I'm not sure if we are going to convince them otherwise. In fact, I'm sure we won't. They feel that the "value" of Attendant is balanced against Shrine. Functionality however, is a different ball of wax. There are plenty of examples of "targetable" heals like we've described here, the most obvious one is Vampirism. I understand this concept. However, if we examine the numbers, we have shrine warding for 3x the amount (or slightly more) than the heal of the attendant, and on top of that we have it warding the entire raid. In order to determine the effectiveness, 3x the heals on 4x the groups = 12x as effective as out attendant. Now, the assumption here is that the heal/wards are effective, meaning there is damage there to heal/ward. But chances are, since wards are more efficient than heals, the shrine is actually getting MORE of the damage and preventing my attendant from healing, even on my own group. So even if i had 12 attendants casted at the same time, chances are his 1 shrine will STILL be healing for more than all my attendants combined. Was this intended? I highly doubt it, and if it was... one of the dev's plays a defiler. My suggestions still stand as solutions to this issue. By increasing the amount of the heal itself and not making it raid wide, we are still looking at 1/4 the power of the shrine (or less), which i would be totally fine with and actually might make this spell useful. Alternatively, making it raid wide and leaving the heal amount at 250-350 would be about 1/3 as effective (or less), also a very welcomed change and finally makes the spell useful. Either way you look at the solutions, they will still be in line with the whole "wards must be bigger" aspect. Actually, making either one of these changes still leaves the shrine as being many more times powerful than the attendant Banditman, I would be interested to know the source of this information: "They feel that the "value" of Attendant is balanced against Shrine.", who said it where and when?

03-10-2009, 06:45 AM	#19
Entarae Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9	After waiting a sufficient amount of time (and seeing you post elsewhere), I am forced to assume that no one actually said this. And I should hope not because it would be a silly thing to say.I really love the way the new defiler temp pet is. It's a spell that is useful,actually requires timing, and the timing is encounter dependent. This adds more elements to the gameplay; it was an excellent change for defilers. If they added aoe immune to their pet or ours, it would reduce the complexity of using the spell and make it far less enjoyable. Why not just give me an aoe HoT? If Lunar Attendant was raid wide, it would be the other side of the defiler's coin. I forsee the defiler's pet being used to ward the raid before aoes, and our pet being used to heal the raid after the aoes. This would actually give us a timing dependent (and thus more enjoyable) spell and allow all the Mystics to actually use lunar attendant in a raid setting. If you are using the attendant while raiding a difficult named in either OT or MT position, you are not serving your raid as well as you could be. Simple as that. Bottom line: Make this spell usable. I'm willing to overlook Ancestral Balm (which also could have been an enjoyable, situation dependent spell) but i'm really not willing to overlook both of these spells being useless. That is why I have come here to get ideas and discussion from the Mystic community and hopefully get a dev to comment on their reasoning and the state of the situation. I am encouraging anyone reading this to post if you agree with my reasoning, and if you do not please post why. I'd like to get some traffic to this topic and draw some attention.

03-11-2009, 03:26 PM	#20
Malcomb Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 30	I think the bottom line is theres no way to justify why the defiler shrine shouuld be revamped, but NOT the mystic Attendant. As it stands, the Attendant is one of the most useless spells. I don't think anyone will debate that fact. I think many of the previous posts were spot on, and suggest the Lunar Attendant gets changed in the following ways: 1. Increase in how much it heals 2. Immunity to non direct AoE's (maybe it only gets this if you take the str end line) 3. Raid wide. 4. Bigger range. At this point I would consider 2/4 a nice gesture, but missing the boat on making it a viable spell. 3/4 would make it a lot better, but still not great. 4/4 would make this a spell worth using and a good healing tool.

03-11-2009, 04:48 PM	#21
Arcanemundi Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Electus Vir Rank: Order of Electus Vir ~ Senior Raider Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 92	Balance is the key to keeping the peace between Defilers, Mystics, and SOE. Before the last expansion came out, the Defilers were all up in arms after SOE informed the gaming community that Mystics will have an HP buff in Shadow AA Trees, and Defilers a STA buff. Mystics already were not able to buff HP as well as Defilers, so I think that change made the classes a bit more balanced for high end raiding than they were before. However, I believe enough Defilers poked enough devs in the ribs after that which led to the shrine change being introduced. It was a bone SOE threw out there to calm the Defilers down. Although, quite a few of us now feel cheated that SOE has given the Defilers more tools to heal with than the Mystics once again. Based on the AA changes, stats, and class raid gear that SOE has given Mystics for the last year or so it has seemed obvious to me that SOE wants the Mystic class to be more melee based and more dynamic of a class than the Defilers are. While this can be useful in pick up grouping/raiding and messing around soloing, I think it is not that useful to high end players in raiding guilds with multiple accounts that are the bread and butter of the SOE income base. It is hard to figure out what SOE is thinking at any time, but it seems like they think Mystics are balanced with Defilers since we have more DPS abilities or procs that function off our DPS. When I am in raid, I focus only on healing. When I lose someone, I never feel like it was my fault, I did my best to keep them alive. If I DPS instead of heal and loose someone, I feel like I made a serious mistake. So, I am not sure why SOE believes as healers, Mystics would feel comfortable with the changes they have made to our class. One example of this is the Savage Healing DPS proc off a couple pieces of the latest TSO raid gear. Most of the higher end mobs have nasty damage shields and some even port you around when you attack them, so the last thing I want to do is risk getting hit with the damage shield for a small heal from Savage Healing, which makes it useless for raiding. When I see a Defiler's heal parse on a boss fight I wonder if they had as hard of a time as I did healing. I am now forced to conclude that they didn't, since they have more tools to use for healing than I do. Years ago when I picked a Mystic, instead of a Defiler, as my main toon, looking at the spells back then I assumed there would only be small differences in how we heal, or how we buff, but I never imagined that SOE would be so biased towards Defilers as they have been. In my experience as a Mystic speaking with other players in the game, I have found it is a common opinion that Defilers and Mystics are not even comparable when it comes to healing abilities. This is an inaccurate and a negative attitude to have since it is also the player, and not just the class of healer, that determines how well the performance is in raid. When I challenge the assumption that Mystics are less of a healer than Defilers the first thing I hear is the healing buff argument, then the Death Ward argument, then the immunity to Stun argument, so this derogatory attitude in game is definitely a direct result from SOE's bias towards the Defiler class over the past couple years. If SOE wants to make play politics and throw the Defilers a bone to calm them down, then throw us one too. Make Lunar Attendant a pet that is useful, instead of a throw away spell we cast when we got nothing better to do. I usually don't cast Lunar Attendant during hard raid fights since I value wards, heals, cures, and debuffs more. Give it a unique ability like group or raid wide immunities, or make it like a group or raid wide RoA that gives a temporary boost to casting speed and reuse, this way the Defilers will not be able to say it is better, and the Mystics say it is worse, since you cannot calculate and compare the benefits. Alternatively, Oberon Barrier could also be amped up to ward for twice as much as it does to make it a true barrier. I hardly even use Oberon Barrier either.

03-11-2009, 05:00 PM	#22
craazygi General Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4	i have heard ppl say that the defiler shrine got upgraged cus of savagehealing or so they seem to think what those ppl fail to realize is savagehealing is completly useless in fights where extra healing counts. that being said i would like to see the bear go to raid wide with closer to 350-450 heals and increase the range to at least 15 meters. also someone compaired ancestral balm to this that is not even close balm is usefull in alot of situations one being where the tank get chainstunned/interupted which happenes quit abit not enough to make a spell usefull but still gives it some use also it is great for affects that kb u as u can eather cure your self or usually more importantly your tank as u are flying. and lastly it helps sometimes when u can chase or be jousting while cureing i have always loved this spell and use as much as i can.

03-11-2009, 09:14 PM	#23
Leza Server: Blackburrow Guild: Saints of Norrath Rank: 5 of 8 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3	quote from earlier: I think many of the previous posts were spot on, and suggest the Lunar Attendant gets changed in the following ways: 1. Increase in how much it heals 2. Immunity to non direct AoE's (maybe it only gets this if you take the str end line) 3. Raid wide. 4. Bigger range. At this point I would consider 2/4 a nice gesture, but missing the boat on making it a viable spell. 3/4 would make it a lot better, but still not great. 4/4 would make this a spell worth using and a good healing tool. My input: Amen, and let it be so. __________________

03-12-2009, 01:46 AM	#24
Entarae Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9	ArcaneMundi's post is pretty much directly on target. Savage healing is a very cool proc. It's fun for soloing, it's great for a peice or two if I am dpsing in a group zone or on some trash. But it is worthless for high end raid content. So why is it all over our high end raid set? It'd be much more suited to be on some legendary gear, since it will only be used in a casual manner. I don't know about anyone else, but I focus on what I am doing. If I need to heal, i'm only healing. Now, this is somewhat off topic, but it's important to realize that in the scheme of things, this is a casual proc for mystics. It has nothing to do with increasing our raid effectiveness when it counts (on a difficult encounter). So if what ArcaneMundi is saying is correct, and defilers got the shrine beef because of savage healing, then that was a nice swindle on their part. I don't think having the bear be immune to aoe is such a great idea (due to the complexity aspect i was talking about in a previous post), but the other 3 suggestions laid out are not unreasonable. Making all 3 of those seems like a major OP change, but when you consider how truely low the bear's healing potential is, you realize that it'll take a pretty drastic boost to make him useful at all. -Phreeki

03-12-2009, 02:02 AM	#25
attila Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 25	I removed it from my panel for so long time, so i didnt remember what they do. Sach as half of "deebaff" __________________ Timmuchin Surreal

03-12-2009, 02:46 AM	#26
Banadux Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 165	Leza@Blackburrow wrote: quote from earlier: I think many of the previous posts were spot on, and suggest the Lunar Attendant gets changed in the following ways: 1. Increase in how much it heals 2. Immunity to non direct AoE's (maybe it only gets this if you take the str end line) 3. Raid wide. 4. Bigger range. At this point I would consider 2/4 a nice gesture, but missing the boat on making it a viable spell. 3/4 would make it a lot better, but still not great. 4/4 would make this a spell worth using and a good healing tool. My input: Amen, and let it be so. /agree __________________ Gochum [The Bazaar] - Necromancer http://www.gamespanker.com/everquest2 Support site (listings, forum, statistics) for Live Exchange on The Bazaar and Vox

03-13-2009, 06:56 AM	#27
Ceolus Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: California, USA Posts: 257	I would like to note that the base of Spiritual Shrine at Master 1 is 681 and the tick on it is 5 seconds (recast 2 minutes. Can be reduced by 20 seconds via 5 AA points). Lunar attendant at Master 1 has a base of ~450 and ticks every 4 seconds (recast 1 minute. Can be reduced by 15 seconds via 5 AA points). I'd say it's a fair trade-off. Increasing the size is a little much... Also, Spiritual Shrine only has one limited-in-size use per AOE because the only logical use is to cast it BEFORE an AOE and because it dies after the AOE. Lunar attendant can keep healing and healing until everyone is in green after the AOE as it's a type of spell that would be cast AFTER an AOE. You can also joust with it. Spiritual shrine stays where it's placed. The spells are not equivalents and do not have to be treated the same for every change. Spiritual shrine has stated "wards nearby raidmembers" (while lunar attendant has not) since the beginning..this change was therefore a fix to its intended purpose. Defilers and mystics are not the same class. There are many mystic spells defilers would petition for if the classes were treated as equals by Devs. __________________

03-13-2009, 03:07 PM	#28
Entarae Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9	Ceolus wrote: I would like to note that the base of Spiritual Shrine at Master 1 is 681 and the tick on it is 5 seconds (recast 2 minutes. Can be reduced by 20 seconds via 5 AA points). Lunar attendant at Master 1 has a base of ~450 and ticks every 4 seconds (recast 1 minute. Can be reduced by 15 seconds via 5 AA points). I'd say it's a fair trade-off. Increasing the size is a little much... Also, Spiritual Shrine only has one limited-in-size use per AOE because the only logical use is to cast it BEFORE an AOE and because it dies after the AOE. Lunar attendant can keep healing and healing until everyone is in green after the AOE as it's a type of spell that would be cast AFTER an AOE. You can also joust with it. Spiritual shrine stays where it's placed. The spells are not equivalents and do not have to be treated the same for every change. Spiritual shrine has stated "wards nearby raidmembers" (while lunar attendant has not) since the beginning..this change was therefore a fix to its intended purpose. Defilers and mystics are not the same class. There are many mystic spells defilers would petition for if the classes were treated as equals by Devs. Ah yes, was waiting for this one. Welcome to the mystic forums.I would like to point out that your numbers are wrong. These numbers come from Wednsday's raid in Palace of the Ancient One. Specifically, we'll examine the Penta fight since it has 1 aoe on a regular timer and will be good for parsing these two spells. Both spells are at Master level.Spell Min Hit Max Hit Average Hit Total Heals Per SecondSpiritual Shrine 1 998 825.11 506.07 Lunar Attendant 19 368 297.47 45 .13These are the results of casting the shrine before every aoe (that it is up) and casting attendant after every aoe (that it is up). "I'd say it's a fair trade-off." Yeah, you would say that. Mathematically, I was showing these numbers earlier without concrete parses. If we take the averages, shrine is roughly 2.5x the heal, and this gives us 45.13 x 2.5 = 112.825. Shrine is healing 4x the groups, so that gives us 4 x 112.825 = 451.3. With a larger sample size, I expect we'd see shrine being roughly 11x - 11.5x as powerful as attendant on every raid named. Now, i'd also like to address the ticks of each spell (5 vs 4). Each time your shrine ticks, you will be able to heal for 1k at any point in the next 5 seconds. Each time our attendant ticks, it is healing at that exact moment and only the damage that has not been healed in the last 4 seconds. I don't know about yours, but my group heal takes a little over 1 second to cast and heals roughly 40% of the groups hps. There will not be very much, if any at all, damage for my bear to take every 4 seconds. But your shrine can eat all it wants. Now I want to address this comment : "Lunar attendant can keep healing and healing until everyone is in green after the AOE" With a 20 second duration, we have a total of 5 ticks. Using our max hit from above, 5 x 368 = 1,840 hps. You must have very, very few hitpoints if that puts you green. And the other healers in your group must really be slacking. I don't want them to be comparable. I don't want them to be the same. I want Lunar Attendant to be useful. The devs made this spell useful for defilers. Why not make it useful for Mystics? All arguments made thus far are pointing out why attendant is not useful using shrine as a sounding board (because it IS useful). We mystics always appreciate the input of a Defiler, but please approach this with an open mind and accurate information. -Phreeki

03-13-2009, 08:59 PM	#29
Banadux Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 165	Adept III Lunar Attendant - Tested using training dummy + my fiances brigang chokering down Min. 283 Max. 333 Avg. 307 Heals per cast = 6 Total heals tested: 36 Total crits: 1 (~ 3%) 3 casts with the T2 8% mod from shoulders (56% crit) and 3 fights were without the shoulders (53% crit). The last three casts without the T2 shoulders were actually higher in average than the first 3 and also provided the highest heal of 333. If Ceolus is accurate in 681 being the base for spiritual shrine and Phreeki is accurate in his parse numbers, then Spiritual Shrine must be affected by base heal mod on the caster, and probably the crit amount of the caster as well. 681 ward + 8% base = 735 ward + 15% crit = 845 ward Since Phreeki parsed a 998 max hit. I'll assume their defiler has 10% on shoulders and procced the DMG effect. 681 ward + 15% base = 783 ward + 15% crit = 900 ward There are either a few other heal mod effects (the arm, or totem perhaps?) I don't know about affecting spiritual shrine OR the base heal amount is much higher than 681. I only have the totem and it did not proc during testing. __________________ Gochum [The Bazaar] - Necromancer http://www.gamespanker.com/everquest2 Support site (listings, forum, statistics) for Live Exchange on The Bazaar and Vox

03-13-2009, 09:29 PM	#30
Entarae Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9	I'm not sure where his numbers come from. When I asked my guild defiler about it after the change, he said it was 1k per tick. My numbers pretty much confirm that, just under 1k. I'm not sure if it is effected by +heal/crit/base, but i'd say right off hand that none of these values change our temp pet's values. If that were the case, conjis/necros temp pets would also be effected by their values and I don't think that's the case. I'm currently working under the assumption that the base amount of the shrine is somewhere just under 1k, 950-999. I'm also assuming the base amount for the bear is 275-375 (i've never seen it heal for 400, much less 450). Both of these at master level.